Have you ever wondered what it takes to be named Apprentice of the Year? Join us as we sit down with Campbell Smith, a young tradesman who carries that very accolade. We journey through Campbell's apprenticeship experience, from his initial foray into electrical work to his successful transition into carpentry. Campbell provides a compelling narrative of the good, the bad, and the ugly of his apprenticeship journey, emphasizing the importance of a positive work culture and respect in the workplace.
As Campbell pulls back the curtain on the world of apprenticeships, he highlights the essential traits that separate a successful apprentice from the rest. With a strong work ethic, commitment, and an unending appetite for growth and learning, Campbell reveals the secret sauce of his success. Additionally, he takes us on a tour of his toolkit, stressing the importance of being well-equipped and prepared for new jobs.
Finally, we delve into the often-overlooked topic of mistakes and feedback in the learning process. Campbell sheds light on the crucial role they play in an apprentice's journey, sharing his personal experiences of learning from his errors and gaining confidence through undertaking new tasks. In wrapping up, we offer valuable advice for both employers and apprentices on nurturing a mutually rewarding work relationship and explore the impact of distractions, like phone usage, on productivity. Tune in and discover the story behind the success of an award-winning apprentice.
We're on a mission to elevate the professionalism of the residential construction industry, and help everyone enjoy building and renovating homes.
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Have you ever wondered what it takes to be named Apprentice of the Year? Join us as we sit down with Campbell Smith, a young tradesman who carries that very accolade. We journey through Campbell's apprenticeship experience, from his initial foray into electrical work to his successful transition into carpentry. Campbell provides a compelling narrative of the good, the bad, and the ugly of his apprenticeship journey, emphasizing the importance of a positive work culture and respect in the workplace.
As Campbell pulls back the curtain on the world of apprenticeships, he highlights the essential traits that separate a successful apprentice from the rest. With a strong work ethic, commitment, and an unending appetite for growth and learning, Campbell reveals the secret sauce of his success. Additionally, he takes us on a tour of his toolkit, stressing the importance of being well-equipped and prepared for new jobs.
Finally, we delve into the often-overlooked topic of mistakes and feedback in the learning process. Campbell sheds light on the crucial role they play in an apprentice's journey, sharing his personal experiences of learning from his errors and gaining confidence through undertaking new tasks. In wrapping up, we offer valuable advice for both employers and apprentices on nurturing a mutually rewarding work relationship and explore the impact of distractions, like phone usage, on productivity. Tune in and discover the story behind the success of an award-winning apprentice.
We're on a mission to elevate the professionalism of the residential construction industry, and help everyone enjoy building and renovating homes.
Easy to use Quoting software for Builders. Produce professional and accurate proposals. Quickly and accurately measure and markup plans in minutes. Win more jobs and track costs. 21 Day Free Trial.
check out more podcasts here...
https://levelupwithduaynepearce.buzzsprout.com
They'd get angry at me all the time and I was scared to even do something carpentry wise because I was scared I was gonna mess up and I'll just get rest on for it.
Speaker 2:Good day everyone. Welcome back to another episode of level up. We are back in the shed this afternoon for another cracking episode. I'm really pumped about this one because we've actually put a shed out out to get some apprentices on for a while now and no one's jumped out to have a crack, so we've actually the first one off the bat is actually a cracker. It's Campbell Smith, who has just been nominated or just won the award for a Master builders Brisbane apprentice of the year. How are you, mate? Yeah, good, thanks for having me. I think you're brave man coming on and having a chat, being an apprentice and telling us what goes on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I was pretty stoked to get that award and I I wasn't expecting it at all, but yeah, I was pretty keen to come on and just talk about what's what life is like, yeah as an apprentice.
Speaker 2:No, I think it's awesome. So you're a little bit beyond the scenes field, so you started as a sparky.
Speaker 1:you had a crack at that, yeah well, I wouldn't say I started as a sparky I am during school, on holidays and stuff like that. I would go into Into work experience and stuff like that. So I worked with um. I worked with CV like a big commercial company doing that. I also worked at um. One of my mates have a electrical company, bear electrical, and I worked with him for a little bit there. But I kind of wanted to just you know, you know, span my options and stuff like that. So I started to go into carpentry and, yeah, I fell in love with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that you did the electrical stuff through. What a school by seeing. Yeah, one week.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, at my school I went to villain over college and we had like a really good program that could Get in contact with all these these trades. So through school I would, um, I Would get sent to these different arm, these different trades. So I just I got to get a taste of what, um, both of them were like awesome.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm here to dig deep today because you you've had it. You start off with a bit of a bad experience and then You've been pretty blessed with where you've ended up to do your apprenticeship. Yeah, and look, I think it's really important to I Talk about all the time like I've had a lot of personal growth and stuff and like I think back to how I treated some of the apprentices 15 years ago that went through our company. They would get treated very differently now, and even apprentices we've had recently and the way that some of our staff communicate with them and things like. So it's, I'm very big on learning and improving and Making sure the culture and the team is really big. But I'm keen to hear your point of view as a young guy that's in the trenches. Actually they're doing at the moment.
Speaker 2:Look, you got a wicked boss in Matt. Yeah, so you work camels currently working for Matt and the team at frame ology, who's also gonna come on the podcast in a couple of months time. But Look, tell us how you started. So you had a bad experience with someone else previous to Matt yeah, so this was also also from school as well.
Speaker 1:Um, we, I got sent to another builder who I Was on trial with, with a few other blokes, and I was lucky enough to get Get the gig. I was, was there for about three months Doing my probation and stuff like that, and I was there for another three months when I started my apprenticeship and Basically said that this is probation, your next three months is probation. So I pretty much did six months of probation and Within that was COVID. So I I graduated in 2019, went straight into work, did about six months of work. Covid hit early 2020 and he lost a massive contract. So I got let go, which was, yeah, a blessing in disguise. I would have to say cuz um.
Speaker 2:So what do you think was like? What made it difficult there? Like, was it, do you think? Do you think it was the employer, or was it like your real, your green, coming into the job?
Speaker 1:I was, yeah and of course I was green going into the job because everyone is like I've just come out of school. I wouldn't even know what a hammer was or an impact driver. I had no idea, but I Wouldn't learn anything, I'd just be, I'll just be digging. And I know, in first years obviously have a lot of that. But when you have none of it, you go into second year and you go. Well, when am I actually going to start learning this stuff? Because, yeah, I didn't actually get to learn anything, so, um, but when I, when I got let go, I had to go to Matt and say, hey, thanks for taking me on board, but I don't know anything. Yeah, and I'm six months into my apprenticeship and I've still got no idea. And which was which was good to to get out to him.
Speaker 2:But for it, for builders and I will even tough and stuff working for builders like what. I Think this is really good conversation. Like what? Why do you think that was like with what? Do you think? Like they didn't trust you? Like I think this is a something that is Really important and because I, like I said, I've changed a lot no, I'm working on my older members of my team. Like you, people have to learn, but none of us get to where we are Instantly we've all had to learn.
Speaker 2:We've all had to make mistakes and fuck ups and, yeah, cost money and all those types of things. So but what do you think you didn't get to learn in those first six months?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know, I think it's cuz um. I mean I was. I started when I was 17 and I Turned 18. I was young and I think it's kind of just a stigma of like Pick on the young one, like he's the young one, so I'll get him to do all that, all the bad jobs, and Well, we'll kind of just pick on him, like it. Some people get it's almost therapy out of picking on someone.
Speaker 2:I reckon it's crazy we're taking their home life and their frustrations in on. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're, whether they do have stuff going on at home or something like that. I just don't think it's the best way to go. Go about it is taking it out at work. So cuz um, because then I would go home in such a terrible mood and stuff like that but.
Speaker 2:I don't think that you're not achieving anything. Yeah, you're wasting your time. Yeah, so were you like, were you asking to do other tasks or putting your hand up to try and?
Speaker 1:do more. Not really, because when I was 1718 I was kind of like in my little ball and I didn't really want to Go out because I was scared to like I'd get that they'd get angry at me all the time and I was scared to even do something carpentry wise because I Was scared I was gonna mess up and I'll just get roused on for it. So, yeah, like Waking up every morning and having to go to work was like a bit of a struggle for me. Yeah, literally COVID hit, I lost my job and I was probably out of work for about six weeks until From my old, my old job that I used to work out in school, I used to work at a cafe and I was a dishpig there. I was working for my godmother and I met Matt, my current boss today, about three and a half years ago, at that cafe because he used to come in all the time with his dog and his partner Candace and Met him and he was just willing to Take me on.
Speaker 1:It was at the time, it was him and a and another tradie. So at that time and Took me on and he kind of said to me he goes, I just want to wait. I want to wait so that I Don't want you starting on a terrible job Like I've got these retaining walls that we're putting in, but I don't want you to start on that. I want you to start on like a better one. And I said, oh no, like can I, can I just get on the retaining walls? Because I was keen, as I've never done stuff like that before. I was just Digging in all that, so I was keen to do it. So he put me straight in the deep end. So it was me and the tradie doing these retaining walls and so what do you think the difference is like?
Speaker 2:Was it just starting fresh and knowing what didn't work the first time? Or like Matt's attitude was different, like yeah.
Speaker 1:Matt. Matt is such a laid-back person. He knows what he wants and he can. He's a people pleaser in a way, but also to an extent that he can Get get up people in the right, in the right tone, in the right, in the right sense. It's not like getting roused on and all the time and it's it's like that, saying where, oh, I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed. And it's almost worse being disappointed and that's what Matt gets. He doesn't actually get angry, he just gets disappointed. And then you go shit, like I'm gonna have to make it up to him. So it's kind of and I was saying it before, like throughout these three and a half years, it's kind of crazy to call I could probably call him a friend, and I don't think many apprentices these days could call their boss a friend, which is probably the coolest part about it, and it makes me wanna get up and go to work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's awesome and I think, yeah, like I said, it's something that I'm always conscious of and, like, I'm definitely on some of my team to change the way we deal with, and it's not even the younger ones. Like just when we put new guys on, like everybody has different skill sets and whatever Personalities yeah, personalities, opinions, all these types of things and I think it's good that you pointed out like it made you feel shit going to work and like when I think when boss?
Speaker 2:because I thought the two bosses I had through my apprenticeship were just animals, mate, just the way that they yelled and, like, worked me like a dog and it was horrible, like I hate it and I busted my ass. But I look back now and like they, I wouldn't be where I am now if it wasn't for them driving me so hard. But I believe there's ways you can get people to get good at what they do and have good output without having to treat them like a dog all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, and a lot of tradies say that to me. So like they go, oh, back when I used to be an apprentice. I used to get shit thrown at me. Oh, my letter swear.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mate, it's a joke of your life, oh yeah. Yeah, get stuff thrown at me and all it's a daily sentence on a job site. I got guys that say that as well. When I was an apprentice like you got and they'll say like I hear people say like you don't know what it's like, like I used to get kicked up the ass and shit thrown at me.
Speaker 1:And I say to them I say well, did you like that? Yeah, if you didn't like it, why would you do it to somebody else? Yeah. And another one that goes around is oh, I used to be earning this much an hour and you just go yeah, but also your house costed you a hundred grand. Yeah, it's a bit different. I made it there's an, even 10 years ago.
Speaker 2:Like there's a lot of difference. There's not. It's funny, the more you and look, I hope you take away from this podcast today like the more time, money, energy you spend on yourself, the better your life's gonna be. Yeah, it's funny because so many people are just stuck in this very closed mind and then they pick on things like that yeah, and it's just such a stupid thing to say, like I only used to get paid $190 a week or something when I was a apprentice. You're getting $600 or $700 or whatever it may be, but exactly what you said like they'll probably pay in 28 cents a liter for you.
Speaker 1:Like not $2. I'm dropping $150 at the at the survey. Yeah, yeah, no, it's definitely a lot different from I mean, what I've heard being an apprentice was.
Speaker 2:But yeah, once you start getting treated like shit and you don't want to, you don't even want to be there, yeah, like, and the last thing you're going to do when you don't want to be there is perform, oh why would you respect someone?
Speaker 1:Why would you show respect to someone who doesn't show respect to you? Yeah, is probably one of the main things I'd say, because if I'm just getting roused and roused and roused, there's no, there's no point just giving him the time of day If I don't get anything out of it, except for just so, for you all like.
Speaker 2:I hope there's lots of like. Well, I know there's quite a few younger people listening to this podcast.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I'm like you're probably massive on your social media, mate. I can like strapping young surfy guy you probably got your shirt off every weekend Getting all the followers. But I and look, I'm probably a little bit old fashioned with this because I do I do feel that the younger generation does have a bit of an easier ride. Yeah, with a few things. Yeah for sure, there's no cane and detention and shit at school, all that sort of stuff. But, like, what do you think young people need? Like, what sort of encouragement or what sort of feedback do they need to actually get motivated? Because, like, we really struggle to find apprentices I'm sure you've seen it work with Matt Like we couldn't like every builder, every trader I know could employ another apprentice. But trying to find young people that will put in effort is very hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is hard, and what I was saying before with Matt, like he's a perfect example. He doesn't get angry at you, he gets, he just gives you like constructive criticism. He's more disappointed than angry. You got an example. What's a recent example? Well, when Matt gets angry, he pretty much walks away. He doesn't say a thing and he walks away Because it's just his way of getting angry and he doesn't want to show it in front of people, which is, I reckon, one of his professional and it's one of his best traits. I reckon, like he walks away and lets it get like tries. He doesn't, obviously doesn't let it go for a long time.
Speaker 2:But I shouldn't say a long time.
Speaker 1:But he and then when it comes back to it, he's you kind of just go oh shit, like I've messed up here, and he will tell you what you've done wrong and what you need to do next time and it's just dwelled in your brain that you have to. Next time you do this said task, you're going to have to go through all the steps that you didn't do. If that makes sense, like I think that's one thing. That, going back to your question, it's what does he do differently? Yeah, he's calm, he's very, very calm. And there's times where I look at him I go how haven't you blown your shit up Like it's? Yeah, he's very. In that sense, he's very, very admirable. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So what's? But what is something that drives you Like, if you like, because you've obviously put in the hard yards? You don't win Apprentice of the Year for no reason. What is it that drives you to do to work well for Matt?
Speaker 1:Well, as I was saying before, like if you get respected and you get shown respect, you want to. As an Apprentice, as a young person, you want to show respect back and the only way to show respect back really is hard work. So he goes. You know what? I'm going to pay X amount above the minimum, but I want to see this. I want to see you need to prove to me that you are worth this. So then you go in your head, you go all right, what can I do next to? How can I step it up? Because obviously you go through first, second, third year and they all get a pay rise and he goes. You need to prove to me why you're worth this, because there's no point having you on if, if you're not worth it. So you just it's all stuck in your head and you just go all right.
Speaker 2:Well, I think you've. I think you've got a really good attitude, mate, because there's a lot of young people out there that don't well, not even young people. There's a lot of people that had full stop that don't have that attitude. I, I, I do the exact same thing. That does I think, like and you might have heard me say this, um, if you listen to podcasts, like I'll pay people that work for me whatever they want, if they're adding that value to my business, well, and it's not just that value, it's like generally someone has to add double what you're paying them, because obviously you've got all the costs of business and insurance and things. But it's pretty easy to me.
Speaker 2:And that that's how I like. That's well. I got it flogged into me Like you. Show me what you're worth and I'll pay you.
Speaker 1:I'll bring this to the table If you bring this, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So what makes you different from so many other young people out at the moment? Like you, you're obviously a driven person because and like I saw it a lot through COVID with um like people that were given that opportunity and they were just like, oh stuff, here at this builder over here, he needs help. He's just gonna pay me straight off the bat. He doesn't even know what I do. I'm gonna go and work for him.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like long term, that's a shit attitude.
Speaker 1:But what makes me different? It's it's very hard to explain because there's so many good, but I know there's some terrible stories of terrible.
Speaker 2:I'm sure you've got lots of mates your same age that are going through apprenticeships and stuff Exactly. Are they the same?
Speaker 1:Yeah Well like I do, like a few cash jobs on on the weekends with some mates. I mean, my brother has just gotten out of his apprenticeship, he's 22.
Speaker 2:Don't don't mention cash, mate. Yeah, taxman might be listening. Yeah, no, just for just for mum.
Speaker 1:But he is like, on this he's on par with me, same with my mate, he's on par with me and I just go and I was thinking about it. I said why, why me? And a lot of it has got to do with I mean, there's obviously your practical side, where you're a hard worker and you get noticed for being a hard worker, but there's also your theory side, where in my first, second and third I'm currently in my fourth year but in my first, second and third year, in theory, I smashed it out. So there would be a few days there, maybe like a rain day or or where we couldn't work or we didn't have work on. I would smash my whole year's worth out and I'd be ahead and then my trainer would look at it and be like because I also got I got nominated by my trainer as well for this award. So and I think yeah, I think it comes down to also your theory, if you smash it out.
Speaker 2:It's all effort, mate. People are saying that you're putting in the effort.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and if I've smashed it out and I've got nothing else to even worry about, it's not like it's not in the back of my mind at all, or so, yeah, that's definitely one, because I hear a lot of stories from my trainer and he has to chase these blokes up because they haven't done their day, their weekly log, and they haven't. They're about to go into their next year and they haven't done all that sort of stuff. So yeah, that's, it's definitely one factor, but it's it's hard to talk about, like myself and how I'm so so called better than than another apprentice. But I just think it's been a word that you're obviously very driven.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Look, the whole point of this podcast is to lift, level up the industry make it better and I don't think it matters what level you're at, if you're a apprentice, like yourself, or you're a builder or a trader that's been the industry for 30 years you've got to put in the effort. Yeah, the effort gets results. Like action takers and money makers, like yeah, and I think you're going to have a long, successful career. Mate Like the. But so what? Like do you know any younger people your age or even that you talk to at college and stuff that are saying like this is shit. My boss treats me like shit. Like what's the story? Is it going?
Speaker 1:Yeah, there are a few people like that, but my, my theory is actually an online is online, so I don't actually go into a class or anything like that, so I don't get to meet people in the similar sort of boat as me, but it's more my friends. Like I've got a few friends that have really good bosses, and then I've got a few friends that hate it and they're so like there's a few of my mates that have left building as a whole. I've got a mate who was a sparky and he left and became a real estate agent because he couldn't. He couldn't, he just didn't like it. Yeah, it wasn't for him, and I think a few of the people at his his work would treat him like he was.
Speaker 1:I mean, it was a fourth year, yeah, and that's getting to the stage where, when you're a fourth year, you're you're now training to be. You're not training to be an apprentice, You're training to be a carpenter. And I think that's where the difference is a lot of the. A lot of people train you to be an apprentice. They want you to be a good apprentice. They want you to be a good apprentice. But the way Matt saw it was I.
Speaker 1:In the future, I want you to be a good tradesman and I want you, I want you to be reliable, and so you put so much time and effort into me that when I get signed off quite, quite soon, that I can go out and obviously not not run my own jobs yet. But I'm like I'm, I'm getting there, You're confident, You've got confidence.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's well it's a funny thing, mate Like there is.
Speaker 2:There is so much to know, I can look you definitely you definitely can't learn everything you need to learn in three or four years, like, and a lot of what you learn you'll only learn through experience, whether it's fucking things up or doing demo jobs and seeing what other people have done wrong. There's so many ways of learning in our industry, but it's just having that drive and that initiative, I think, to be hungry for it. Yeah, you have to be. You sound like you're very hungry for growth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I mean yeah you look at it and you go four years your first year of apprentice and then just say you look at a set of plans and you go how on earth am I going to know what that's going to like, what that says? I have no idea. And how does this fourth year apprentice know what it all says? Like I won't be able to learn that in four years. But once you start putting your mind to it, you can actually learn it quite quickly, do you?
Speaker 2:uh, do you read plans and look at documents After hours and stuff and prepare?
Speaker 1:for new jobs and yeah, because um Maddie has this. We're on builder trend. Um, I'm not sure if you're aware of builder trend but, um, he has our jobs up on there and he's just got it all organized. He's got all these folders in there of um engineering and the um architectural and then when it gets changed, you can change the um show, the changes of the plans and stuff like that. So, yeah, when, um, when we're starting a new job, um, yeah, I definitely go through.
Speaker 1:And there's obviously things where you you've got to do tomorrow and you know you got to do tomorrow. So you have a look at it, so you can just go on your phone and just have, like, maybe it even be 10 seconds. You look at it and you go, oh, it's going to be like this, and you go back the next day and you know what you're doing. So I think that's a it's a really good thing to have. Is builder trend. Well, I mean, I'm sure there's a few other things that are a few other apps that you can have it online and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, you're taking the initiative to suss things out before you get there. But, like, looking back through your time, like and uh, like what's some things that you feel would help you get, um, get ahead, like I'm I'm a really big fan of like toolbox talks and like even, uh, yeah, I try and get my team like they do a bit, but like I think they should happen every morning, like have a run through every single morning, right, oh guys, this is where we got to yesterday. This is what's next. Who's doing what?
Speaker 1:What do?
Speaker 2:we need. Are we short on materials? Do we have everything? Like let's get set up Like yeah, and it's thinking ahead. Yeah, think ahead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we do the same thing. It's um, matt sits us down and he's a massive and, funnily enough, it being um are you okay, day? He literally sits us down and asks us that question and he we. We've made it a thing where we ask each other what we are on a scale of one to 10. Yeah, and obviously eight being uh, 10 being the best and one being the worst, so that at the start of the morning you know whether he's feeling all right or some stuff like that. So we do that every morning.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, just to see how everybody is. Um, and obviously there's sometimes where someone's like five and you go, oh, like what's, what's up? Cause we're usually like an eight or. But if someone's like a five, we go, all right, well, he's feeling down in the dumps, we won't ask him why, but we'll just leave him alone for a little bit, like he can. So when we're in the morning and we do a toolbox talk and stuff like that, we can send him off and to a job that he can just do by himself. So he's not with anybody else and he can just like, yeah, rent, like just just chill out a little bit, and um, and it's pretty cool.
Speaker 2:So what you saw me in the one spot every morning and uh, yeah.
Speaker 1:So when I said job then I'm like, uh, like a task in the job. But um, we, yeah, we just meet on site and we've got a couple of sites in the moment.
Speaker 1:So um and we're all just set in stone in the one site. But, um, I think that and it's all that's also like a factor that he, they care, like they actually care me being a prentice and they're like, oh, how are you feeling today? Every day, yeah, and you just go. Yeah, well, thanks, thanks for asking like that's. Yeah, that's made my day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's really good, it's a little things that can make the big difference, yeah it is.
Speaker 2:I think that's a really good thing to do, like every single morning asking the team if you're okay. Yeah, everyone should be doing something like that. Like not just waiting for these special days and yeah, you're meant to do it, but like what's so, what's been like apart from winning the master builders apprentice of the year, like what's been some big achievements for you through your time, like well, obviously, learning I reckon learning quickly is considered to me as one of my best achievements, because obviously I was saying before I look at stuff and I go, how am I gonna know what to do in four years time?
Speaker 1:and then now I'm here and I can do those sort of stuff, that sort of stuff. So doing that and one of our one of our coolest probably achievements as a team was heading up to 1770 and we're up there for a month building modular homes, yeah, so that's yeah, that's more of a team probably accomplishment. But yeah, winning the obviously winning the award tops it off. I wasn't expecting it at all but yeah, I'm so grateful to be recognized in a in such a big industry with so much talent and upcoming talent. So yeah it's crazy.
Speaker 2:So you're telling us before mate, you didn't, you weren't expecting it out.
Speaker 1:A few beers on the night, yeah yeah, well, it was one of the last awards of the night so I always hold out those individual ones to live to the end.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's what they plan is they wait for everyone to get a few in them and then?
Speaker 1:yeah, well, the ones that you gotta do speeches, yeah exactly so I it's, yeah, free drinks, so drinks just keep coming all night. And obviously I wasn't, and no one can expect to win such an award like that, because there's so many talented people out there. So, yeah, I was kind of sitting there going, oh there's, I don't think I'm gonna win it. So there's me just necking these things back.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, um, was your speech like it was okay, I'm not very good at like public speaking and stuff like that, but me going up on stage. I went up on stage, got my plaque and stuff like that and took a photo with him and then I started to walk off stage and he goes oh, you need to speak. And I said you're fucking kidding me, aren't you? There's no way I'm speaking. He goes no, you need to speak. So I went up there and basically just said all the thank yous and stuff thanks to my boss, thanks to Candice, and our tradies and stuff like that. So I kept it short and sweet, but I think I think that's probably the best way to do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah so how have you like? What's the deal these days with apprentice, like with tools and things like you don't get to a lance anymore, do you know?
Speaker 1:so we've got. We actually get a loan, so it's a. I'm actually I'm not doing it, but when you start your apprenticeship they give you a 20 grand loan, but it comes in increments.
Speaker 1:So it comes monthly. The first year is like 700 bucks a week oh wait, 700 bucks a month. And then the second year is like 500 and just goes down and down and down, but it ends up being about 20 grand and you have to pay 16 of it back. So if you're smart with it, you can just make money off it. But I I took it for the first year. Yeah, I haven't been taking it yeah, cuz it's interesting and stuff.
Speaker 2:But again I can set you up for disaster. You're getting in that rhythm of bloody borrowing money even from a young age. But yeah, what do you? Because, again, I just see so many young people drive around now and they've got all this new year like, yeah, you proud of your tools, like you put a lot of time in there, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I actually started with one one tool, which was um Makita. I got a little pack of Makita and they all started just going to shit cuz. So, and Matt at the time was was working some DeWalt, so I was like you know what he's.
Speaker 1:He's isn't doing that. So so at the moment I've got I've got a bit of Makita and a bit of DeWalt stuff that survived with Makita and then the rest of it's DeWalt, but that's it. Yeah, it's another thing about being good apprentices, like I think you need you need the tools, because there's nothing more annoying. The same way, there's nothing more annoying than someone going all day. Can I grab? Can I borrow this for a sec? Can I borrow this for a sec? And once it just keeps happening, keeps happening. You don't have your tools there, it wastes time and you start doing nothing and perspective like seeing younger team members put effort in and make sure they're building their look.
Speaker 2:You don't expect them to have all the tools straight away. Like it takes time and money and stuff, but like just seeing and putting the effort and buying a tool every now and then, and I think that's massive. Again, it's just that initiative. Yeah, I'm sure you got the right gear it shows that you came.
Speaker 1:So if you were to go into a job and you've got nothing, there's there's no point, because if you have a car full of tools and you're a first-year apprentice which a lot I've seen a lot of people I'm on a few Facebook groups that have apprentices and they post their tools and you look at it and you go.
Speaker 1:He looks keen like yeah, he's got all the gear. And I mean I'm no builder or anything like that, but if I was a builder I'd look at that and I'd go wow, this guy's keen. So I'll give him a shot.
Speaker 2:But if you gotta have the right gear and the right gear and enough gear, that's you're more efficient doing the job like nothing.
Speaker 2:Shits me more when you see tradies, a lot where advertising for new employees and stuff, and you know you get a guy turn up for a carpentry interview and he's got a tray back you if one little toolbox, yeah, and like actually these days I don't know, it's getting more and more common. But when you say, when you ask him what tools they'll be, like oh, I got a Milwaukee pack or I got a Makita pack, like yeah, where's the rest of it?
Speaker 1:man. Yeah, where's your laser levels? Where's your?
Speaker 2:drop sores. Where's your straight?
Speaker 1:edges, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think I think having the initiative to build your, your quality tools up again just shows any employer that you're, that you're keen and yeah, obviously, any know what you're doing, like you've got the right tools to do the right job yeah, yeah, that's definitely one of the big ones, I reckon yeah, so you have you enjoyed your apprenticeship, like because you I think, matt similar to us.
Speaker 2:What you do, everything don't you do with a yeah, footing and slab prep and yeah, like building, lifting under this and framing and cladding and you do the whole show.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we do everything we've we even do our own roofs at our. We've just recently finished a job in Paddington and we had to build a I think it was like four meters high block wall. So we're doing like blocky work and stuff like that, which was because, um well, you're laying the blocks yeah, yeah, yeah, it's good fun.
Speaker 2:Block-lanished man. I've had a couple of guys that I cannot. That is one thing I cannot get right, yeah, yeah, it's um, it is. It is tricky, it is hard as to get to mix your mud with the right consistency.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I was on the mud but there were the time, especially for my training and stuff like that, because I have to take photos of me doing stuff and for my training it was really good because the boys would be like, all right game, get the trail and we'll get you laying some blocks just like a little little planter box in the back backyard. But yeah, it's, it's cool to have all these different things, like we do all our roofs, we do all our gutters and everything, everything. Even I can't remember how many cube it was, but it was a massive, massive amount of concrete. At our recent Wingara job.
Speaker 1:Uh, your on a pillie job and we concreted the whole thing. It was a top slab and then it's probably a 900 mil step down to a garage which was a the. The top slab was flooring and tiles and stuff like that going over the top, so it didn't matter too much but the? Um, the garage was finished and To get that experience of even concreting is so cool. Yeah, there's um, there's not many apprentices that I think there wouldn't be many apprentices that will ever be able to learn that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2:I mean I tell my guys all the time like you I don't know if like they appreciate it, but you, like the younger guys coming through, like you, it is getting fewer and far between. Like a lot of carpentry apprentices now, like they're they're even split. Like they do the whole time just doing framing or the whole time just doing cladding or lockups or something. Yeah, to get Like it's more of a building apprenticeship. Yeah, you're learning everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then it comes with back later on, later on down the track. It's like what's cost-effective? Like what was the difference between us doing this concrete and what was the difference between a concrete or doing it? Yeah, like we won't. We wouldn't have done it if it were, if it wasn't cost-effective. So that, yeah, that's, that's probably like the next step.
Speaker 2:Yeah there's lots of things that play into that, like as you, as you get more experience and you Possibly start your own business. Like it was so many things that come into play with stuff like that. Like you, it might have depended on Timing, or yeah, or whatever it may have been, but just Having the skills in your team that allow you to make that decision Well right, oh, this job's got to be done, or we can't get a concrete, or yes, it's gonna save some money if we do it ourselves like having your skills is going to allow you to make those Decisions moving forward. So look, what's what's your plans Like?
Speaker 1:do you plan on eventually being a builder, or well, yeah, I reckon once I'm finished my apprenticeship and I've done Just got the tick, I reckon I'll probably start doing my cert for and I don't want to jump into things too quickly because I've obviously just got still so much to learn and I don't think Anyone in this world has learned everything. So never mate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I should be building. There is new shit to learn every single day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I, yeah, I just don't want to jump into it too quickly, so I'm happy to just to just stay around with Matt and Just to keep learning, really, because I mean I've learned so much through four years but I've still got I'm not even, I probably not even halfway yeah, like I've still got so much to learn. That's to do with like running my own jobs and yeah, it's stuff like that.
Speaker 2:So what's your favorite part of a build of your print? Look, be a carpenter, what's something you really love doing.
Speaker 1:I love the finishes. So when you like, you Come back and you've been on this job for a whole year and you get to look back and you, once it's all painted and stuff and the scaffold is dropped, and you look at it and you go I built that. Yeah, it's probably the most satisfying thing about my job. Yeah, you look back and then you go, that used to look like this and now it's this monster.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's the? What's the? The tasks that you enjoy doing, tasks I'm fit out, framing, cladding like I do like fitting out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, fitting out where it's like more it's. It's really like picky, you, um, you can't, you don't have much room for error. It's kind of where I like to um Challenge myself. Yeah, I think being able to get stuff absolutely perfect is Probably my main like like pick me up I just when I get something right and like it looks perfect.
Speaker 2:Like well, again, that just shows you the initiative. Like you, you like to Make sure things are done correctly. Like what have you seen things that? Like if you bought stuff to the table, like I know, like I'm a big fan of encouraging Everybody and it doesn't matter if they've hadn't been doing it two weeks. But yeah, like someone and you I'm keen to know If you've been in this situation like you might see something that's getting done on the jobs and you just think, oh shit, like why aren't we doing it? Like this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's quicker, like yeah, well, there's obviously like the all the Really little bits. I probably I haven't been involved in a um, a big decision and I don't think there are things like you go, you're skirting, and someone that like goes Across and they do a miter to to a door and it's like a you have to put like a little tiny little Skirting piece in there. I say, and I'd be like oh, don't you reckon it'd look better if we just do a return miter and finish the? And just once, once you look up, it's just like a square set Into a return miter would look way better. And then they go, you know what, yeah, and it's, it's rewarding to. I mean, it's such a little thing, but it is rewarding to see that someone goes. You know what, like that's actually a really good idea.
Speaker 2:Well, I think there's a lot of bills out there. Mate, don't let that happen Like it's everything's their way of the highway. Yeah, you've got to encourage your team, or give give your team permission To be able to have that input.
Speaker 1:Yeah well no one knows everything exactly and it was really really good for. So earlier in the year we started off this year by Doing modular homes in a shed. So we used to build these homes in a shed and Matt Matt was there with us and he had an office set up there. So Matt's Just been working his ass off and in the office and he doesn't really have that much time to to yet like get out on the tools and so he kind of, in this, this Modular job, we had a this padding, the Paddington job still going, so all the boys were finishing that off and he set me the challenge and he goes.
Speaker 1:You know, I'd like hear the plans. You can see they're a bit different, obviously because it's a modular home. So you've got like you set one, two, three and four modular homes. But I Want you he's like I want you to start off but doing the floor system and then I'll come out and check it, and then when you get that, it's almost freedom and it's you get to decide what happens next. It's very Rewarding and then all you want to do is get it right. So you go in there and and you start I don't know you get like really motivated and stuff like that to, because I've got someone next to me and I'm telling them what to do and, yeah, it's really rewarding for him to just go. You know what I want you? I want to see how you go, and if you, he goes, well. If you Mess it up, well, so be it like I think it's a good attitude.
Speaker 2:I think again, I think it's something that a lot of builders and bosses out there Overlook, like and I know I did for a very long time but You've got to give your team permission to just do their own thing. Every now and then, and with younger guys like yourself, like you as a boss, there's gonna be fuck ups. Yeah, look at simple as that, like. If it happens Multiple times, yes, then something needs to be done about it. Yeah, the best way to learn is by getting in and having to go. Yeah, and I think you learn more.
Speaker 1:When you fuck up you learn more and you learn quicker, you, because you're not gonna do it again. Yeah, yeah, there's so many times where you mess up and I still remember this time when I was I was probably like a second year and I was doing my second ever jam door jam, like a French door, yeah, and they um, I Was doing building these jams out and stuff like that, and it was my second time doing it and I messed my first one up really bad. And my boss goes you know what, go in there and try it again, we'll do it again. So I did it and yeah, I'm a second year friend as I've done it and walk started do another task after that and I see him walk into the room where the gems were and he goes, just yells my name out cam, come in here and I've gone.
Speaker 1:Oh, no, so I've walked in there. And he goes tell me what's wrong, tell me what's wrong with this. And I go looking at it and I've gone. Oh, I don't know what's wrong with it. He goes no, tell me what's wrong with it. And I've gone no, like Matt, I seriously don't know. He goes good, because it's perfect and I've just got, oh, like everything has just come off my chest and I'm just going. Yes, I've smashed it out. That's the sort of banter that Matt and I have is. He stitches me up, but it's all for all, for a laugh.
Speaker 2:And I'm a crack. Yeah, if you didn't stuff it up the first time, you wouldn't have learnt what not to do the next time, exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's. That's probably the biggest way to learn is, yeah, giving it, giving it a crack, and if you mess up, you learn even quicker.
Speaker 2:Yeah um, well, great is Learning from your mistakes, mate. You're never gonna have growth if you're not to make a mistake. It's just like I said, it's not doing them multiple times. But yeah then, and like, well, that obviously gave you a heap of confidence. It would have given Matt confidence and I'm sure after that he would have let you try more things. Yeah, yeah, which.
Speaker 1:Happens all the time. Now he just goes. I want you to do this and obviously you mess up every now and then. But yeah, as you're saying, like if you mess up all the time, then there's there's a bit of a problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you mess up, you learn from it, you move on, you do it again and you do it right so with your like, in your experience as a young fella, like what what's worked best for you, to feel confident and feel like you can leave a Toolbox meeting or you can start the day knowing what's what you've got to do, like. I feel like and again I'll put my hand up, take ownership for it, like as a boss, sometimes you have so much going on and just like, hey, just get this done, do that, do that. Like yeah, and there's not enough instructions or you're not yeah like my.
Speaker 2:One of my big things now is like you've got to slow down to move forward, yeah, and I think sometimes you've got to Just take a breath, slow it down with your team, take whatever it is five, ten, thirty minutes. Explain it make sure everything's nice and clear, and then let the team do it.
Speaker 1:I was Talking with Matt not long ago, because we do these annual reviews and we sit down and we he tells me my good things and he tells me all my bad things that I have to work on and stuff like that. And one of the things that I brought up was sometimes this is more like my second year, third year, but I find it difficult to find the median between quality and Quantity. So obviously you need to be pretty bang on, but you can't just take ages for it, like if you take heaps of time, for it isn't, it's not even not even a good, it's not even good work. Yeah, you need to find the yeah, the happy median between a quality job and a fast job. And I think, as an apprentice, you're going through your first, second, third year and, yes, there's going to be some jobs where you will hate it, but that's someone has to do it and it's not going to be the trader you're getting who's getting paid X amount. It's going to be you, so let that happen. But if you have a boss that will let you do that, once you finish that, you start doing Some cut with some real carpentry work, yeah, then you as a boss, I think the best way to go by this is a Good example is what Matt does.
Speaker 1:He lets me go on my own and he waits for me to get it perfect. He doesn't he doesn't really care how long I take in my first, second, third year, but I start to get it perfect. And once I get it perfect, I can get it perfect the next time, but just that little bit quicker, yeah. And then I get it perfect the next time and a little bit quicker, and it starts to just even out of, yeah, quality and Quantity of work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but even just the fact that the age you are and still being an apprentice and you're actually thinking about that shows a lot about you, because I We've had so many tradies over the years that they just Don't get it. And like even in the last few months I've had to have words with Some newer, newer, new a tradies that we put on, like one example was it was the first time they'd done some fit out, what they'd been working for me and like they literally took six hours to hang and I know because it was on a job that I was physically there for and they took six hours to fright like jam up and hang and fit two barn sliding doors and right like Mate, seriously, you've done a perfect job. But with what I'm paying you and what those materials cost, if I add it all up, it gets to this Would you pay that for what you've just done? Yeah, probably not Probably not.
Speaker 2:Well, come on, I'm paying you as a trader. You've got to get some speed.
Speaker 1:I think that's probably one of the best things to do as a boss is put stuff in perspective, because that's what Matt does really really well. Like I get stuff, I will get something perfect, but it's really slow, and here you go. So you took X amount, it costs X amount to do this and this is what I expected.
Speaker 1:I expected it to be this much, and now it's this much, would you pay this much for what you just did? And you kind of look and you go, nah, there's no way. So yeah, that's also part of just like the learning curve of it. So, yeah, it's great for a boss, I think, to put stuff in perspective because you can look at it, look back and go, nah, that's not acceptable, because you don't get to see some people, just don't get to see the perspective of the boss.
Speaker 2:Well, they're just not in that mindset. And look, if you're not a boss, that sort of points that type of stuff out and, like I'm a big fan, it's like we talked about before with the I'll pay you what you're worth if you add that value, like it's the same deal, like if you perform in a way that gives my clients value. That's what I'm after, because if you're slow, then that's making my cost more expensive, which makes it harder for me to get more work. So, yeah, look and I think it sounds like Matt's onto it because I think it's good advice for all bosses, employees, builders out there I'm a huge fan of letting my team know the bigger picture.
Speaker 2:You've got to look at the bigger picture with everything. I believe you can't just be focused on this one part of it. You've got to know the bigger picture and know why. If you take that long to do that, then that costs that much, and then I've got to charge this and then I've got to charge the client that. Look, some people it might not, but most people they'll go. Oh shit, yeah right, I wouldn't pay that.
Speaker 2:so you better pull my finger out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's just, and it's a bit of a wake up call for anyone, whether it be a tradi or an apprentice.
Speaker 2:So, Matt, what's? I want to ask you a couple of questions there before we wrap it up. So like, if first one's for, we'll go with the bosses to start with, like for any bosses out there that may, whether it's apprentices or employers or whatever but if they're having a bit of trouble with getting their team motivated, I want to hear it from you, mate what's some advice you could give to people to get their teams motivated?
Speaker 1:I think it's if you treat your team whether it be an apprentice or the whole team if you treat them with respect, they will treat you with respect.
Speaker 1:Through work, they'll showcase their hard work and if you respect them, that is their way of showing respect back.
Speaker 1:Because if you don't respect them and you rouse on them all the time and they don't want to be there, there's no, there's no point of an apprentice coming in every single day and getting roused on because he's not going to do work for you, and then it gets worse and worse and worse until he's gone.
Speaker 1:So there's a lot of things out there where I and I probably wasn't at my old company, I probably wasn't the best, but it's because I'd get roused on every day and the absolute last thing I wanted to do was to go to work and I didn't want to be there and I probably was starting to become a terrible worker. And it's not because I wanted to be a terrible worker, it's because I didn't want to put any effort in, because nobody showed me respect. And I think that's as an employer, you do actually show your respect through work, because you're getting X amount of money. And he says oh you, obviously you have to show, showcase to me, what you're worth. So yeah, it's kind of yeah, you're bond between your boss and employee and how much, how much respect they give you.
Speaker 2:So before I go on to my next question, like just can we dive into a bit like you getting to that, like not wanting to go to work, because I think this happens to a lot of people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it's like we're struggling to get apprentices out there now. I mean, we're struggling to get tradies as well, but the apprentices, when they just yeah, when they're getting roused on every day, it's very hard and again I've got I don't know, I've got theories on everything, but like I think everything comes back to the money thing.
Speaker 2:Like there are so many bosses and builders out there that are just running shit businesses so they're just constantly under pressure. So they're always expecting apprentices to know what they're doing and you can't, because you're green. Everybody has to learn. Like no one comes and starts a job and just knows what to do. Like, especially an apprentice. Like if you go to uni you're getting taught how to do what you want to do before you actually do it. When you're an apprentice, you're expected to know it straight away. Yeah, like there's no teaching Because you're getting paid to do it. You're getting paid to do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's like I would go in every day and just go. Nah, I don't want to. I don't really want to work for you because you don't want me there. It feels like you don't want me there.
Speaker 2:Maybe you do, but I don't feel like, if you look back, so I've got a saying I live my life by like nothing happens to you everything happens because of you. Like, if you think back, is there something you could have done differently to get respect from them?
Speaker 1:Oh, I don't know, because I think I said it earlier, people get therapy out of picking on someone because they've obviously had a terrible time at home, or I think they've. Just they've already made their decision up before you get there, so they know this 17 year old apprentice is coming in. Yeah, I'm going to pick on him. He needs to learn this way, which I personally don't think is the right way, because oh, it's definitely not the right way. Yeah, I don't want to work, and it comes down to that.
Speaker 2:So there's no times where you could have tried to, like got asked to them. Hey, I'm not sure. Like, would you mind showing me how to do this?
Speaker 1:or I didn't get that, or could I have a go at something else, or Looking back at it, I go, yeah, I wish I did say stuff like that, but me being a 17 year old, I was a lot different and I didn't really want to. I was in my own little bubble and I didn't want to come out of it. I didn't want to ask to do this, or I didn't really, didn't even really want to talk to them.
Speaker 2:to be honest, it's a big thing, hey, like because you're literally you're still a boy and you're on this job site and you're expected to be a man.
Speaker 1:You've just well, you just come out of school. I had just come out of school, gone to schoolies. The next week I had my first week and school and work is a lot different. So it was such a wake up call to see the reality of work. But, yeah, the difference between that was my old company but then my new company that I'm well, I say new, but I've been there for three and a half years now and I'm loving it. I was a I think must have been a second year apprentice and Matt gave me a company van where I would store all the tools and stuff like that for for the boys and I'd get a fuel card and stuff and all that. And I, I look and I've just gone. Well, I must have earned this and I also need to show why, why I deserve this. So it's kind of just like he's shown me respect by, yeah, giving me this car, trusting you, because he wouldn't give it.
Speaker 1:He wouldn't give it to someone who was that he didn't like or it was terrible, Not performing yeah, yeah, so gave that to me and it was kind of like a little pep up and you go, ah, sweet, I'm going to. Just what can I do next to impress him? So yeah, that's the difference where I don't want to impress the blokes at my old company, but I want to impress Matt because he's he's kind of impressed me. So what can I do to impress him?
Speaker 2:So so what's what about, like what's your advice for younger people out there that might be thinking about becoming an apprentice?
Speaker 1:Um well, you work a third of your life. So if you were to become an apprentice, yes, they're sussing you out on how good you are or how motivated you are you show, show your 100%. But if you also have to suss out whether this is going to be a good place to stay, because you're, you're at work for a whole third of your life, if you're at a job where you don't really want to be at, you're not going to like it. So yeah, in a sense, you have to know what, know what they're like and they need to know what you're like. So being an apprentice is one. When you go in there and it's just say you've just come out of school and all those kids are addicted to being on their phones, and if you go in there and they're, I'm obviously not a builder, but being a builder and seeing someone on their phone when they're not supposed to be would be the most frustrating thing for someone to see because, oh, my phones are costing every single one of us so much money from people just being unproductive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cause you, just once you get into a rhythm, you just keep going and going and going. You go on your phone and then you just slow down and you go, oh, what's next? So you don't need it, get off it, you don't need your phone there. What do you? What do you need your phone for? There's smoke over that. You can go on it after work, cause you can be off your phone for four hours, then smoke it. Then you can be off it for four hours again.
Speaker 1:It's not that hard Like and I obviously you need to take like important calls and stuff like that. But it's also like you get a call and you look to see if it's important or not. It's even pulling it out and like the boss seeing you pull out your phone and it looks like you just on your phone it's. It's a terrible look. So I I'm not actually not even wearing it now, but I wear an Apple watch so it connects up to my phone. I leave my phone downstairs or wherever, out of sight, out of mind, and if a call comes through, I can see it and I can. Whether it's an important call or not, I can take it or I can.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, you need to be as to answer your question, you need to be motivated, and you need to find someone who motivates you, though. So life as an apprentice now, compared to what it used to be, is a lot better, but you also need to. Yeah, you need. You need to find your, your ground.
Speaker 2:I think, yeah, no, mate, look. I think, um, yeah, I think you're. You're going to go a long way, so I'm keen to see you. I'll start following you on Instagram.
Speaker 2:I'll keep an eye on you, but yeah look, that's off to you for, yeah, show an initiative and putting in the effort and, um, yeah, you can tell by just the way you talk and the way you think that, yeah, you're going to have a big future ahead of you. So, um, yeah, good luck to Matt, and um, yeah, good luck to you for your future. And thanks very much for coming on. Yeah, thanks for having me. It's been a pleasure Cheers.
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Speaker 2:Everything discussed during the level up podcast with me, dwayne Pierce, is based solely on my own personal experiences and those experiences on my guests. The information, opinions and recommendations presented in this podcast are for general information only, and any reliance on the information provided in this podcast is done at your own risk. We recommend that you attain your own professional advice in respect to the topics discussed during this podcast.