Ever wondered how the masters of the building industry scale towering heights of success? This episode is your scaffold to the top, with giants like Kyle and Matt from Zanetto Builders, Craig Stewart, Brett from Saltash and the Evo Built duo, who share the bedrock of their success: investing in personal growth and business coaching. Venturing through the valleys of vulnerability, we uncover how shattering the ego can be the best foundation for growth.
Strap on your hard hats as we erect the framework for powerful branding in construction! Zara from the Healthy Home lays out the blueprint for building with health in mind, discussing the implications of EMF and material choices, while Josh Ford from New Age Electrical illuminates the circuitry behind a standout brand identity and social media presence. And don't miss out on the concrete advice for vetting clients and setting standards that soar sky-high, spotlighting the Profit First system as a tool to fortify your business's financial footing.
The episode's grand finale is a testament to the synergy between structure and teamwork, exemplified by Chris Cahill from Prime Built, whose strategic game plan has hammered out both business success and family harmony. We explore the cornerstone of communication and the craft of client selection, before taking a mystical detour into 'land whispering' with Adrian Ramsey, revealing the secret language of land and architecture. Join us in this episode that's engineered to inspire your personal and professional journey in the world of building and beyond.
We're on a mission to elevate the professionalism of the residential construction industry, and help everyone enjoy building and renovating homes.
Easy to use Quoting software for Builders. Produce professional and accurate proposals. Quickly and accurately measure and markup plans in minutes. Win more jobs and track costs. 21 Day Free Trial.
check out more podcasts here...
https://levelupwithduaynepearce.buzzsprout.com
Ever wondered how the masters of the building industry scale towering heights of success? This episode is your scaffold to the top, with giants like Kyle and Matt from Zanetto Builders, Craig Stewart, Brett from Saltash and the Evo Built duo, who share the bedrock of their success: investing in personal growth and business coaching. Venturing through the valleys of vulnerability, we uncover how shattering the ego can be the best foundation for growth.
Strap on your hard hats as we erect the framework for powerful branding in construction! Zara from the Healthy Home lays out the blueprint for building with health in mind, discussing the implications of EMF and material choices, while Josh Ford from New Age Electrical illuminates the circuitry behind a standout brand identity and social media presence. And don't miss out on the concrete advice for vetting clients and setting standards that soar sky-high, spotlighting the Profit First system as a tool to fortify your business's financial footing.
The episode's grand finale is a testament to the synergy between structure and teamwork, exemplified by Chris Cahill from Prime Built, whose strategic game plan has hammered out both business success and family harmony. We explore the cornerstone of communication and the craft of client selection, before taking a mystical detour into 'land whispering' with Adrian Ramsey, revealing the secret language of land and architecture. Join us in this episode that's engineered to inspire your personal and professional journey in the world of building and beyond.
We're on a mission to elevate the professionalism of the residential construction industry, and help everyone enjoy building and renovating homes.
Easy to use Quoting software for Builders. Produce professional and accurate proposals. Quickly and accurately measure and markup plans in minutes. Win more jobs and track costs. 21 Day Free Trial.
check out more podcasts here...
https://levelupwithduaynepearce.buzzsprout.com
G'day guys. Welcome back to another cracking episode of Level Up. We are back in the shed today for something a little different. We've had an absolutely cracking year with Level Up. The guests we've had on, the conversations that have been had, the value that we've added to the industry and probably the biggest one for me, and what's just going to make us keep making this thing bigger and better than ever is the feedback that we get from all you guys and girls that watch and listen.
Speaker 1:So, luke Shays, actually going back through some of the podcasts that we've put out this year and put together a bit of a highlights reel and look, there was just so much great value that it would have been a seven hour podcast. So we've cut out the best bits and, yeah, grab a cup, I grab a beer. Whatever you're doing, sit on the beach, sit back and have a listen to what we've got coming up, alright. So let's kick it off with the Seven Builders podcast. To have so many incredible builders in the one spot at the same time delivering value, was just off the charts. The likes of Colz, annetto and Maddo Grady from Zanetto Builders, craig Stewart, brett Fowler from Sold, ash, robbie and Dean from Evo Built like absolutely off the charts. This podcast had a lot to do with, or a lot of conversation around, self-development and the need to constantly be working on yourself and your business, so let's get into it. So, basically, everyone sitting in this panel today is all getting some sort of coaching. Is that right? Yeah, correct. Do you want to talk?
Speaker 2:about your, yeah, yeah. So I think, being a typical male male, everyone's ego and their personality, something that prevents them from seeking help. And for me, I don't know, I'm out in a few boys that come to a point in your life where you hit rock bottom and then you've got to reach out because you just can't go on. I think that social media has definitely put that option in the spotlight, whereas maybe 10 or 15 years ago, before people had Instagram, you probably didn't have that accessibility or knowledge that you could just reach out and find someone. And then for me, yeah, I probably over four years I was, like everyone, addicted to work. Personal relationships really start to fail, family and all that because all I did was prioritise work. So you're doing 80, 90, 100 hours a week and you just get stuck in that race and going round and round and round and Then you can never finish work and that's the way I look at it. But back then you're like, all right, if I knock 15 hours today, I'm going to get ahead for tomorrow, but you'll knock 15 the next day, You'll knock 15 the next day.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, business coaching for me was a step back to look at myself through, yeah, like I said, relationship issues, personal issues, health issues and it was something that, for me, was life changing. My relationships now is 10 times better and I'm a better, more supportive partner than what I was back then. And the influence that it's had on me, with how I respond to people and just my day-to-day personality, has had a massive influence. So for anyone out there that's looking at doing business coaching for me, when I first looked at it, if it was $2,000, $3,000, $4,000 a month, I was like fuck me, that's dear, that's a lot of money. But I can guarantee you within that first month you'll make 10 times that and also 10x your mental health, and that growth from that investment is exponential. So, yeah, there's no bad investments in yourself. So start with yourself and the business will follow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. I'm a massive believer. Now, like if you're not right, nothing around you can be right your relationships with your kids, your partners, your subbies, your employees like you've got to be right yourself before everything else around you will flow on. But you're getting well. You do the LiveLock Bill, but you do some other stuff as well.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, livelock Bill was the start of it and, like some of these boys have mentioned, I did hit rock bottom and I mean the way I've talked about this before on the podcast that I was out I'd had enough and I just something inside me, wanted just to make sure I'd give it one more crack to myself, know that I'd give it everything and not just pull up short just because things were tough. But yeah, we got stuck into LiveLock Bill and that was just a. That was three, four months of really intense. I got straight.
Speaker 4:I love what I was seeing, I love the whole course. I was doing it at all stupid hours of the night and morning and because once you can find stuff that Like a lot of the stuff you know you should be doing, but once it's structured in a way that you can understand it and you can, and it's at a time in your life or in your business where it's applicable, it's just music to your ears and you can't get enough of it. So I've done that, but then I don't. Probably I delved into it, probably for nearly too far for six months and left the personal stuff way behind, and so then I delved into a bit of a self-improvement journey with Rising Kings, and that was the awesome thing about the cake. That's what made the two worlds come together really well yeah just focusing on myself a bit more.
Speaker 2:I think the big thing about Business Coaching LiveLock Bill is the networking and the support. And when you're at that point and you're at the bottom you're at rock bottom you feel very alone. If we were to be at that point in our life and we had that support around us of all there's other blocks that have been through the same thing, I don't think it would have been as bad. So I think, yeah, that's the value in having a support network that everyone is going to go through the same shit. You've got to understand that if you don't fuck up, you don't learn. If you don't learn, you don't grow.
Speaker 4:There's something about hearing it from people that you know have been through the same experiences. It's all good to have a business and there's all these different coaches and mentors out there, but it's really been in a network where you know they've gone through the exact same things. They've been just as they've probably said they're retiring. They've put getting out again multiple times, like all of us have in the early days. There's more weight to it when you're liaising with them people.
Speaker 5:I reckon when I was doing Elevate I would sit there and almost laugh at the videos because I'm like I've got all these problems I've got. You know, my cash flow is not working, my client relationships have fallen down, my team could be better, all this sort of stuff. And then, you know, you listen to Duane or people in, like the Zoom calls, and you're going, oh, everyone's in the same boat. I thought it was a me problem and you're just like, oh, everyone's in the boat together. And then, like you know the hell, coll and I reconnected with friends when we were teenagers and then drifted apart. But you know, I came into his office and I was like this is fucked. And he's like, yeah, I know.
Speaker 5:And they're like wait, wait wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, bro, I'm like the things that we've done wrong, but then we can use that energy to work together and improve. And it's just like you know. Look at the like eight months ago I was just alone and like look at this, this is unreal, this is really cool.
Speaker 1:I think there's a difference about like and you guys are nearly eight, ten years younger than I am, like I think there's a with your younger guys. It's going to get taken a lot more seriously. Like I know, like I did similar things to guys when I was going through my travels and they just say, mate, fucking, harden up, that's the way the industry is. And like you'd walk out again Like, well, if that's the way it is.
Speaker 6:Like do I really want to join me, but I'm not man.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it takes a generational shift, though, doesn't it Like it's not something that happens really quick. It's got to be these younger guys who are you're getting information, and yet from different places, like in the old school ways. With a way I learnt in my the bloke I don't my trade under, he was as hard as nails Like, yeah, there was very, very uncompromising and it was his way of the highway and, yeah, I think it's a generational shift and people are starting to learn, yeah, a very different way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's definitely changes and from when I was an apprentice to when I was a young tradie and first started my time, people didn't want to help and communicate and connect and like this shows this group here. But you know, people have realised that there's more out there, there's more needed and self-improvement is a big thing, you know. And networking whether you're networking with an architect, a designer, whatever but builders who network are going to be better off.
Speaker 3:You're helping each other and I think that's a big thing and part of, obviously, this podcast. But just day-to-day life is if you've got a problem or got an issue and you can talk to someone else, even if they can't solve that problem. But listening straight away because someone's listening and taking you seriously is better than, like you said, they said, harden up. Well, it doesn't matter what your problem was. They're not giving you any solution, apart from seeing it later. They don't want to know about it. That's your problem. But as soon as someone listens and takes it on board straight away, there's, you've got a connection. Straight away, you feel that there's some hope. Yeah, and that's the big thing, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I think, at the end of the day, like it's a hard game, like building is a hard game, I think it's been hard ever since it started and it's going to be hard for the next thousand years. I think it's like we touched on off air before we started recording and something I've really realized in the last couple of months it's all up to the individual. Like it doesn't matter what programs and softwares and PDFs and systems and processes you have. If you haven't got the mindset and open like, I guess, openness to sit back and take it all in and have a crack, it's not going to go anywhere. So a lot of it's got to start with personal, which comes back to applying yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you've got to apply, yeah, and sometimes it takes you to get to rock bottom. I think both sounds whatever.
Speaker 2:I'm not sure about these young guys but it's a good place to hang out apparently.
Speaker 8:And what about like the business coach that we were talking about earlier. They're always really good with culture. They taught us how to get a good team and stuff and like talking about like vulnerability and speaking about rock bottom and shit Not that it was, I feel like it was rock bottom, but just a real hit in the face. One of our team meetings we used to have them in our shed. Now we've got an office and stuff. So it's like good to see the progression and whatnot.
Speaker 8:But one of our meetings literally there was I think they had like 14 of us and we're sitting in my garage just on you know 20-dollar chairs from Bunnings and all sitting around in a circle and we're like they're like, oh, we're going to have a bit of a conversation about how you're a CUNT on the job site and I'm like, oh shit, like there's literally 13 blokes around in a circle talking about how I'm shit and just like, just because, like I've got a bad temper and like but that's one thing that I've worked on over, like you know, three or four years Still flares up and I go, oh shit, really God, I just like see it coming. But yeah, like two years ago had a team meeting, literally 13 people just sitting there going. You got to stop banning.
Speaker 9:But it's been showing your team and having vulnerability and giving them opening the gate to them.
Speaker 9:To be able to come to you with those sorts of problems is also a very yeah, that's a tricky one. So I think that through the business question that we had in the early days and then that set us up to show the team that we always said to them if anyone's ever got a problem, come to us, please come to us and let's talk about it instead of just keeping it all up. It's not just that one about problems with Rob. We've also had guys come to us that had really bad mental health problems and I think potentially we even saved a life just from having that support network saying to the guys you guys can come to us whenever you want. Don't ever be ashamed of expressing your feelings in this group, because you know.
Speaker 4:It's a safe space.
Speaker 8:Yeah, it's a safe space. Yeah, it's a good start. One of our guys, probably two years ago, came to work and more on a job site, bit commercially, and literally sat us down and he goes, mate. I had a bit of an in-depth conversation here. Okay, looked a bit down and he goes, mate. Literally I was not going to come to work today and I wasn't going to wake up tomorrow and I was like I was like fuck, no, I was like he goes. But if I didn't feel comfortable talking to you boys about it he goes, I probably wouldn't be here right now. He's like he was literally had that mentality on the way to work and we're like far out. We literally said we used to play golf a fair bit. So I said, mate, come for a round of golf with a Cesaro, it'd be good fresh air. Took him for a walk and walked him through it and just, yeah, just really opened up to him and yeah, he definitely progressed from there and got, you know, pretty got better mentally.
Speaker 9:I suppose I think we've been through the hard one. We've probably been too good a mentors because we've set people up to succeed them.
Speaker 2:Come on now.
Speaker 1:So our next cracking guess was Zara Dakota from the healthy home. This conversation I had with Zara was off the charts and I learned so much it actually I've stayed in contact with Zara ever since we record this podcast. I've actually completed her healthy home mastermind course and, look, I think it is really really valuable and important for all builders to be learning more about this type of stuff. These are electromagnetic fields, mold condensation, the building materials we use and how they affect our clients. And, look, even if you're not into it, just educating yourself on this stuff so that you can educate your clients or be able to answer your clients questions is really, really important. Well, let's go back to electrical. How do you? How do you solve it? Like, how do you solve the problem?
Speaker 7:Yeah, so working with an EMF technician early on is a good idea. So getting getting an assessment, getting them to come and assess what the levels are like at the site, and then designing the home so that appliances that are mid-high levels of EMF, like your fridge, your washing machine, your meter box, are not sharing balls with the bed head or an office where you're spending significant amounts of time. And then there's strategies that you can implement with the way the home is wired, where solar panels are placed, having the option of hardwired internet so that if the family wants to go down that path, they can.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and look, we've actually done one job actually probably in closer to two years now 18 months that the client had listened to one of Amelia, the undercover architects, my business partners podcast about the electrical currents and those types of things. So we it was the first time I'd ever been bought to my attention and so we put all the internet in a cupboard away from the bedrooms. We put switches on things so she could turn the power off to areas Demand switch.
Speaker 7:It's actually amazing that, like I've been into that many homes where there's been someone in the family that has had migraines or insomnia, and in each scenario that person has been the one in the house either sleeping next to the Wi-Fi router or the Wi-Fi router is next to the desktop. So I think there are many more people than we realize that are not feeling their best day to day because and they just, you know, they just think that that's the way it is, but it's safe.
Speaker 7:It's in my house, so yeah but something is like I had a client who had she had twin girls that were just under one year old. They were just sleeping in separate rooms but they both had baby monitors at the end of their cots and they weren't sleeping very well and I had a meter and the Wi-Fi. The radio frequency radiation levels at the cots were the same as at their Wi-Fi router. So she turned the baby monitors off that night and she messaged me two days later and she said Zara, my girls have slept soundly for the last two nights. They slept to 8am this morning.
Speaker 7:So, that's just such a simple change that has made such a big difference to these two baby girls.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there is. Is that part of what you do? Is that another specialist that deals with their currents and things? An?
Speaker 7:EMF testing technician would deal with that. I can certainly advise on strategies that you can implement in the design and I can look at you know, potential nearby sources, but if you, yeah, wanting tailored advice specific to that project, then an EMF testing technician.
Speaker 1:This next young fellow was such a blast to have a chat with Josh Ford from New Age Electrical down in the Borough Bay sort of area. I'll tell you what he was so enthusiastic about being authentic and building a brand that really represents who you are and shows that your company is just an extension of yourself.
Speaker 7:Brands important, isn't it Brands important?
Speaker 1:yeah, so many people overlook the power of their brand and these days, personal brands like it's a big part of business.
Speaker 11:And it's hard when you I guess, when you look at Instagram, you're putting your whole brand out there and everything you do, and you could put all your work out there and you're putting it out there for the world to see. So creating a brand around that I don't see it any dissimilar from creating a clothing brand. At the end of the day, you know like you want to get people involved and people to follow along, then create a brand. That's the best way to do it and I think we've done that from day one creating a good logo that stands out and just updating Instagram with everything we're doing, and I think it's worked for us. So definitely something that needs to be done for anyone starting a business, that's for sure.
Speaker 1:And anyone with a business. So it's putting you out there, your beliefs, your cultures, all those things that you're doing, your work, your team, like all your interactions with your clients, the work you do. So your brand is like, ultimately, what's going to attract you? The right type of clients, the right type of employees, the right type of suppliers, all those types of things.
Speaker 11:Well, it's what sets you apart as well. So say you know, in our area there's a hundred electricians Like why are you going to choose us If I don't have an Instagram and I don't have something that stands out, or I'm not using Instagram, how do you know who I am or what we do? You know what I mean. The times are changed from word of mouth is so good, but the times have changed from that where it's like you know, especially where we live in Byron, there's so many people coming like developers and builders from here or Melbourne, sydney, coming to the area that they don't know the local trades to get any feedback from other people or people there. So what do they do? They're going to jump on Google. They're going to jump on Instagram, they're going to be searching local electrician who, and then we've built our website to make sure I know it's the best in the area.
Speaker 11:Yeah, so I was like I know it's good. I've pumped so much time and effort into that, working real hard to make it look sick. It's got videos on there. It looks really good. That's the first impression of our business.
Speaker 1:It is not only. I think it's more than that. Like I think, if you like you can tell how passionate you are. You can hear it in your voice, you can see it in the, how excited you are sitting in the chair there. Like you it does so much. Like you'll be inspiring other electricians around Australia, around the world, that come across your page, see what you do, see how you put it out there, see how you look after your team all those types of things. So the power of it is enormous. And I think so many people don't realize the power of it. Like I know myself, I avoided social media for so long when it first came out, but I just harness it with both hands now. Like it's incredibly powerful and it's the main reason why all of my businesses are the way they are and as successful as they are.
Speaker 11:That's how like I reach out at you, find you. You know what I mean. Like it's, it branches out in different avenues to find different.
Speaker 11:Yeah, that's why you're sitting here today. That's it. Like you know, if you, if you didn't, if you don't do it, it's almost that thing you're going to get left behind. You know, man, I know there's some guys that there's some older, older builders we work for that haven't really branched into that. And then you know the industry has changed so much, especially where we are, and there's all these young guys coming up and they're getting all this crazy architectural work and I know the older builders are going. Yeah, the fuck, are they getting that?
Speaker 11:Well yeah, these guys getting it, but it's like they're prevalent, Like you know, like they're relevant, they're prevalent, they're in people's faces, Like you know. That's what they're probably going out of their way to chase that work and that's why they're getting that.
Speaker 1:Well, they're putting people. People can see you, yeah, people can see what you do. Like that I like to say it all the time Like I think social media is a new word of mouth.
Speaker 1:Like word of mouth is obviously the best type of work and people are. People are still going to be referred to you, but I'm a person like. My personal opinion is the number one thing people will do when they hear about you is go and see if you've got an Instagram account. And if you don't have an Instagram account where they can't look at photos and things like, what else are they going to see for you Like? And nine times out of 10, if you haven't got an Instagram account, you've probably got a 20 year old shit website. So how are people going to know about you, what you do, the quality of your work.
Speaker 11:Well, that's. I think it shows how passionate you are as well. If you've got a good website and a good Instagram that puts all your work out there, it shows that you care about the work you're doing and that you did. You know what you're doing as well, cause you know you could you could hire an electrician. That you look on their Instagram there's nothing on there, or their website generic photos and you go I want to do this amazing architectural build.
Speaker 11:How do you know that guy can do it? Cause not everyone. Just cause you're an electrician doesn't mean you can do the right work that everyone else you know that you want done. It doesn't mean they can do it just because they're an electrician. So that's where it's going to make those people like, especially designers, say, designers are going to be looking at our page and we, the house that we put up, the architectural houses, all that sort of stuff, and they're going to go well, these, you should be using these guys because they've already done it. But the other guy, you go oh, we want to use this guy. Here's our local electrician. They go has he done this sort of stuff before? Like, I don't know, cause I can't see his photos or anything like that.
Speaker 1:So All right. So if you're having a little bit of trouble finding the ideal client, the ideal job that you want to be doing, then these two next guests seriously they're. They took this conversation off the chart. So we had David from eco wise homes and Anthony from outlier studio. This podcast I think it was one of the longest podcasts we actually did, but, seriously, it was just complete value, start to finish, and there was a lot of conversation about qualifying your clients, um putting systems and process in place to attract the right type of client so that you can be doing the type of work that you want to be doing in your business. So how does it work for you two, Like, how do you work the process?
Speaker 6:So, depending, the lead could come. So it could be an inquiry from either of us and we'll then make that introduction to the potential client. We kept it separate as far as the business side of things go. But yeah, it's usually just an introduction to begin with. We do our typical vetting processes and things as such. You know, an inquiry for make sure that it's the right fit for both before we're shooting any further.
Speaker 13:Yeah, we're both very, very big on qualifying the clients. That's the thing.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. How are you doing that?
Speaker 13:So I use Google Forms so someone reaches out to me, he might spend a few minutes on the phone with them, but then you know, if we're going back to the Google Form which I'll email through to him and then get for them to send for their plans that they may have and get a series of questions in there, and then what sort of questions are you asking?
Speaker 13:Just like what their budget is or what they're willing to spend. What's the most important thing the project's built on time, the budget or attention detail. So obviously if they sort of say budget like, oh, hang on, that's probably may not be the right one for a call, but I've had clients that do say budget.
Speaker 13:and then they actually worked out okay and, you know, had a great relationship with them. And then just like, what are they looking for in their, you know, their builder? What are they looking for performance aspect? There's a few other ones in there, like have you got finance, what stage you up to with your design, that sort of thing and that so. And then you know a phone call, obviously qualify them again, just to chat. And then I sort of, you know pretty much, give them a free sort of I mean, if they qualify it after that, give them a free sort of hour for me to go through and sort of explain them. What I do is operate differently as a builder the most builders and yeah, just see how it goes from there. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think the inquiry form is such a powerful tool, yeah, and like everything we do now, like everything's constantly improving, nothing's set in stone, and like we've definitely learnt, like we got quite a lot of questions, like we got pretty strict on our inquiry form for a long time and there's a lot of jobs we said no to like if they didn't fill things out, whereas now we're sort of back to. We're educating the clients a lot more.
Speaker 1:So I guess, just to give the listeners a bit of an idea, like so ours, there's four, four, like I think we have about 12 questions, but there's four questions that we focus on.
Speaker 13:They have to fill out. They have to fill out the good ones.
Speaker 1:They have to fill out them all. So for me, if they don't fill out one question generally, that question is the budget.
Speaker 13:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's like if that's the first point for me to see if they're going to follow me and treat me like a professional and if they don't value my system, how are they going to treat me for the whole job?
Speaker 1:So for me that's a big tick box. But so my four that I really focus on a site location, like we will not do a job anymore. That's on a main road intersection, near a school, in a parking area. You can lose tens of thousands of dollars just with that sort of shit. And then we ask them for a type of job and we give them. It can be a new build, a renovation, an extension or a lift and build under.
Speaker 1:We ask them to give us a brief outline or scope of work that they're looking for. And then the most important one is their project spend. And from those questions, like just an example, if they tell me they want to lift and build in underneath their scope of works is a new living area, two new bedrooms, a laundry and an internal stairwell and their project spends $500,000. To me that's a no brainer. Like we can make that work. But if they say that they want to lift and build in under, they want a living room, two new bedrooms, a laundry and internal stairwell, the kitchens and bathroom upstairs renovated, new deck out the back, a carport, and their budget is still $500,000.
Speaker 1:In the past we would have gone back and said, oh look, we really apologise, but at this point in time we're unable to help you, whereas now we go back and go, oh look. Thanks very much for filling out all the questions. Really appreciate your information. From our experience and the data on our current projects, we estimate, for the scope of works and the type of job that you've told us you're after, your project spend really needs to be $650 to $750. And it's actually surprising the amount of people that come back and go. Oh fantastic, no one's actually told us what we want to cost.
Speaker 13:There is like a portion of people out there just generally don't have any idea how much it cost to build, isn't there?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that one extra email to educate them on what it possibly might cost. Either goes two ways You're either never going to hear back from them again because they're like, oh fuck, that we've been told we can get it built for $410, or you get the ones that are like, oh mate, fantastic, can we have a meeting? We'd love you to educate us more. That whole inquiry, what we call it the pack process, it's so good.
Speaker 13:I think it's a huge game changer for my business. Going back when I first started, I'd get a phone call and we'd be like chew the area off and then we'll jump into the use. The next morning it would be on site like, oh, what can we do for you, and that sort of thing. And then, like now I call it hurdles, like and you know I sound bad, but I try not to spend that much time wasting my time with clients that aren't even a client I'm all about, you know like send them an email back and say you know, I do believe it might cost such and such to do your job and that thing, but again, trying to do as quick, as efficiently as possible and that's where that Google form is really amazing that it can you get a series of information that didn't take you really any time apart from the send that email.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, the next thing is taking it next level, mate, and we embed a little video in our three minute video on it Just. I can tell that one video like, because that's 50 phone calls. Yeah, like I get asked. You get asked the same question all the time. So we just answered the heap of questions in like a three minute video. The number one thing we explain in that video is why it's so important they tell us what their project spend is. Yeah, that's the number one question people hate answering.
Speaker 13:Yeah, I think you get told different figures. I get told yeah, that's happened a few times.
Speaker 6:There's also been some great examples where that project has just like. They were unrealistic with their budget and stopped right there, and for the better you know like that was the best outcome for that person at that time was to put the brakes on and not go forward with it at that unrealistic budget. And look, they may find someone who says, yeah, I can do that, but we all know they're going to end up at the same place where they shouldn't be.
Speaker 13:I think that's very like the bill to involve is so important, like the first sort of pricing we can do, like there's a lot of assumptions that are made, like you know might be concept stage we probably don't have any structural engineering and that sort of thing so we are making a lot of assumptions as far as you know, maybe structural steel and all sorts of stuff, but at least you know you're sitting down and spending, you know the three or four days worth of working it to get your figure and that sort of thing and and yeah, as you said, it can be a red flag and so now that's well and truly above our budget, or, hang on, let's remove that second balcony error or the fourth bedroom, that sort of thing.
Speaker 6:So, yeah, yeah, the only thing I'd say that I do probably further, because we have an inquiry form at Google Doc as well is we actually have a few statements and we just want to make sure they align with that, and one of them is you know, how do you see this home? Do you see it as a commodity or do you see it as a place for you to live with your family? And if it's a commodity for resale, then we're probably not going to be aligned. And you know, we try and just throw a few of those thought-provoking statements out there and just see how that sort of fits with them. And that's another way that we sort of, yeah, another thing we put into that inquiry form as well. But I like that video, that's a great idea.
Speaker 1:That is to me. That's how you add value to your business. Isn't it Like you want to be aligning with people that have the same or very similar beliefs, values, opinions, all those types of things? Because it doesn't only make them treat you as a professional and respect your opinions and the service that you're going to be delivering to them, it just makes a far better relationship Straight away. Yeah.
Speaker 6:Like instantly, you know that you're going to be with someone who's like-minded and you're going to, you know, hopefully get along really well and have a, because ultimately, we're looking at the outcome and it's the project, and we're project focused and that's what we want to be able to do is provide the best outcome. So I mean, what have you sort of found when you're client focused or project focused, like what's it typically for you when you look at something? Is it you want to have the best possible clients, regardless of what the project is itself?
Speaker 1:or For me it's. So we've really changed our tune on this. So when actually it's nearly it's 10 years ago now when I first started reaching out and getting some mentoring and coaching and stuff, and everyone like I tried five or six different coaches and everyone said you've got to find your greenhouse or your red house. Yeah, and I went down that path and whereas now we are all about the client, like I don't care. I don't care what type of job it is, whether it's a new build or renovation extension of a $50,000 carport or a $5 million house, if the client doesn't have the same beliefs and values as me, then it's not worth any working for them.
Speaker 1:Now, when we talk about leveling up the building industry seriously, this next guest, chris from CMA Homes, has absolutely taken it to the next level. He has started a business from scratch with his family that is now turning over $90 million plus dollars. The thing with Chris is he has a real thing about setting expectations and building culture in his business and he talks about how he has used that to get his business to the next level. How do you go like finding stuff now, like as any business grows, like when you've come from, like someone like yourself that's had a go and you've you know how to do everything. Yeah, you can sit back and go. Oh shit, like they're too slow. I could do it quicker than that.
Speaker 14:Look, my office will tell you I'm the hardest man to please. So they will definitely say that when I give a compliment to one of my staff members, they know that is genuine. I don't compliment them, you know. I don't say are you doing a good job? If you're not, I will. I will say it how it is. But when I say something, you know it's really true.
Speaker 14:I guess, look, I set a standard and yes, it's high. But how I feel is as the business owner, I feel like a coach, right, and this is my team and I have to set the the the sort of example, and I have to set the standard. And if I set the standard low, this is what I spent to them. You know, my, my whole goal is for you to be the best at what you do. You know? Same thing with the size of us. You know how good does it feel to know that if someone wants to build, they want you to be the size of us. How good does this feel like? And this is how I want everybody to feel. So, yes, I set a high standard, but I wish I could train more. Like, obviously, it's hard with some once. I think I've got a team of 45 now, so it gets a little bit hard, just work directly for CMA.
Speaker 14:Yeah, yeah, so direct employees. We've probably got here 45. So we've got size of us office draftees, estimators and yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, you need a lot of staff to do 250 plus. We do, we do.
Speaker 14:And we're pretty much on point stuff once you know we could possibly do it a little bit extra. But I've built, I guess, a bit of a culture where you know it's hard work and and like most of the, these are people I have they love what they do and I would never implore someone that's just really good at what they do but they don't enjoy it, I feel it's just it's just not going to work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, especially with the culture that you're building in the business.
Speaker 14:Yeah, it's it's pretty much. Yeah. So I feel like I'm a coach and feel I'm here like every day to like pump everybody up and like answer questions and solve problems and this and that, and because it's hard. You know it's it's home building and and and people don't, don't sort of realize, but when you look at how much work it takes for a builder to build 10, 20, 50 homes, like it's a lot, a lot of work. And if they saw, if a client saw the work behind the scenes, like man, it's, it's incredible amount of work, incredible. And for everything to run as smooth as possible. It never runs smooth, obviously, because it's home building, but for each one as smooth as possible, fuck it, it is a lot of work.
Speaker 14:I'm very much a detailed man. So you know, if there's a hundred dollars spent here, I'm going to sit and I'm going to ask why, you know, and so I've been a bit hard on them and they can see that and and what I said to them. And look, I'm the hardest person on me. You know, nobody's going to be harder on me than me. And it's hard because, as much as I feel like I'm yes, I'm doing well and I won the young entrepreneur thing and all that. I feel like I haven't started, like like I have just started. This is how I feel, you know. So I feel like I've only scratched this sort of surface. I feel like we can always improve our customer service and we can always build better houses.
Speaker 1:So how do you like, how do you go about employing? So you would be using a lot of contractors.
Speaker 12:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 14:How do?
Speaker 1:you qualify them and and make sure they're up to your standard Most of the guys that we have in terms of subbies, conquerors, everything.
Speaker 14:They've been with us for years and years and what had happened is they've grown their business with us. Now sometimes it's hard to say we've got like like a few painters and we've got a few tallers and all this. So those trades sometimes they don't scale that much. But, for example, if I take our cabinet maker, he's fully scaled with us, does a hundred percent of the CMA home. If I take our stone mason, when I met him, same thing. It was a really small stone mason. Now it's got a huge factory. Does a hundred percent of the CMA work. So a lot of them have just scaled with us. And the new ones, yes, it's hard. And I always say to my team like set the expectation before he even starts a job. Set the expectation. This is a critical part. If they don't know what you expect, and if they don't know what you expect, it's never going to work out.
Speaker 1:Are we talking about that. So much, that is across the board.
Speaker 14:That's what your?
Speaker 1:employees, your contractors and especially, with your clients. You've got to set an expectation right off the bat about how you're going to deal with their job. Execute their job right from the first time you meet them and talk to them Exactly.
Speaker 14:And sometimes it's hard, you know, sometimes I've got we may have like a first on buyer and they literally have no idea. And I think a house is perfection and just got to explain. You know, it's built by hand, everything is built by hand. So, yes, there's standards which we have to obey to. But yeah, you know, you can only push it so far. House is still all built by hand and don't expect something because it's just not going to happen, I guess. So sometimes you have to just set the expectation and then at all stage of the bill I said to my sales team you got to set the expectation at sales stage. Start supervisors when they meet a client, set your expectation at that stage and just keep going as you go. The worst thing you can do is just not set anything and then it's just free from.
Speaker 1:Now, one of the key things to having a successful business is knowing your numbers, and your data are bang on about this all the time. The next guest we had come on the level up podcast was Katie from Profit First for Trades. This conversation was just absolutely awesome. Hearing some of Katie's stories real life stories from clients that she works with and some of the struggles that she sees and constantly having, was just really, really awesome, and the feedback we got from this podcast was next level. So look, sit back and really take it easy. If you haven't listened to the whole podcast with Katie, go and check it out, because seriously, knowing your numbers, knowing your financials and dealing with someone like Katie that can lead you in the right direction is super, super important. What do you do to get tradies in shape? I guess with their numbers.
Speaker 10:Firstly, tradies are actually real, as you say. They're really good at numbers. You're actually really good at following a system Once you have a system. I've never worked with a tradie that hasn't been able to pick up profit first. And I have heard it all. I've heard that I left school in year nine. I've got all these other issues.
Speaker 10:I'm not great with numbers, but when you're given a system, you are actually really good at following the system. You just have never been taught a system, and that's what I always explain to clients. I'm like, if you think back to day one of your apprenticeship, could you read plans properly? Could you plan things out? Could you map out the next six months schedule? Could you do any of that? No, it's the same with your financial system. You've never been taught. So we have to go back to that day one of your financial apprenticeship and start from the beginning, and that's super uncomfortable for most people, which is why they ignore it.
Speaker 10:And what I find is I always talk about your financial team. You have to have a really amazing financial team to help you in your business. Just like you've got great staff members and you know great subbies and so on, you've got to have a really solid financial team and unfortunately and this is not all of them, but for the most part accountants are amazing but sometimes they lack a little bit of being able to explain the financials to a client in a way that really is just simple and basic and makes sense to them and what we do. When I did myself originally when I was in my business have that conversation with the accountant, you're like I'm not really sure what he's talking about, I won't ask the question because I feel like an idiot, and then next year you have the same thing, and then it just kind of snowballs and the same with many bookkeepers. They're great at their craft, they're great at what they do, but they're not so great at the, at being able to communicate what's needed, what's missing, what areas need to focus.
Speaker 10:And I think, because of my financial planning background, I've always looked at where are you now, where do you want to be, what's missing, and I've always had that kind of mechanical mind. I've always wanted to pull things apart, see how it works and what's not working, and then let's put it back together so it actually works. And I think that plays well for me, because that's what I do with businesses. I may not have become the motor mechanic, but I'm certainly a mechanic when it comes to looking at businesses, and whilst I have a bookkeeping business, I don't refer to myself as a bookkeeper. I kind of sit between the two and I can almost interpret what they need to tell you and then be able to explain it to you in a way where you go oh okay, I get that, that's easy.
Speaker 14:Why couldn't.
Speaker 10:They've just said that and it's just because everybody's kind of speaking a different language and you just need to have that team around you. We need the amazing tax account. We need the amazing bookkeeper. You also need the person who's going to be able to help you put the financial systems in place so they all talk to each other and they all make sense in a really simple and efficient way. And that's what I find. When profit first is set up properly, it should be a 15 minute review a week max even if you're a multi-million dollar business.
Speaker 1:It's funny. So one of the first things we do when we get builders into a live life bill, like we've created what we call our overhead calculator, so we get them to fill it out, put all their data and stuff in and then they can book a call and we talk about goals and things, and not until they attend that first call it ends up being completely chewed up, just getting them to understand what it's actually costing them to run their business. And I know for me, like that years ago when I was doing some like spoke to Sean, I went on his podcast because we were doing lots of the same stuff and we started implementing his version of profit first. It was very good because, like you, have no choice. So when you do the profit first way, like one of the first things it does, it shows you well, I need to know what's taking around my business, so I need to increase my income, because when I do the profit first, there's nothing left. So it makes it very clear on where things are going wrong.
Speaker 10:And I always say it raises that red flag for you. And then you have to consciously go I'm going to ignore that Like it's there for all to see that you don't have enough money in that particular bank account for those bills or whatever it may be. You can't hide which is uncomfortable for the business owner to start with. But once you get through that initial phase like anything when we do something new, it's uncomfortable for a while but the benefits far outweigh that uncomfortableness and just knowing that you've got money in the bank to pay the wages or to pay the BAS bill or to pay, you know, the end of month bills it's the one piece of feedback I get from everybody I work with is like, oh, like I didn't realize how stressed I was until you take that stress away. And then they're like oh, actually business is not as stressful as we thought once you manage the financial side of it.
Speaker 1:That's for people that are listening, that don't, don't know. We've never heard a profit first, like, in a nutshell, like what? What is profit first? Like what's the, the principles of it?
Speaker 10:Yeah. So, quite simply, if you think back to our grandparents or our great grandparents, you know our grandfather would have gone out, he would have done his work for the week, he would have come home with some cash, given it to grandma and she would have put certain amounts in each different envelope for different purposes and once that envelope was empty, you had to get resorcell. And it's a similar sort of concept but for business, and we use bank accounts nowadays because we don't need to be getting cash out, so you will have a number of different bank accounts. So when we set up profit first my version we start with seven bank accounts, which may seem extreme and it may seem like it's more complicated, and for the bookkeepers and accountants out there that may send warning bells off in their head. They're like that's going to be a disaster.
Speaker 10:It actually makes it easier when you have your different bank accounts labelled for a specific purpose, so all the income comes into the first one and then from there you make sure you put your money aside for your GST, you put money aside for your materials and sub. You put a small portion away for profit to start with, because most businesses aren't profitable and we want to put a little bit aside. We make sure we put money aside to pay ourselves, because if we are not paying ourselves properly out of the business, we need to do something about that, because we just have a really big headache. We want to put money aside for tax and we want to put money aside for what's left is our operating expenses, and you do it in that specific order and there are other bank accounts depending on the business. But that's kind of the basic framework. And if you don't have enough money in your operating expenses to pay those regular bills at the end of the month, then that is not profit first, not working.
Speaker 10:It's profit first working because it's showing you that there could be something wrong with your pricing, your quoting, your timing, the are you sending invoices out when the job finishes or are you sending them three weeks later? There's a whole range of things. Are you operating expenses just too high? Are your staffing expenses just too high? And by having the different bank accounts, it tells you where you need to look, whatever bank account you don't have enough money in, and then it's like, okay, great, so for this one, then we'll look at this. So, coming back to the expense review, very first thing I do with all clients is do an expense review. It's something that they dislike the most, but the amount of clients that it's not my favorite things.
Speaker 10:I love it because it's really easy to find. So I always explain it. If you think about your operating expenses account as a bucket, it's got all these holes in it, but you don't know what's causing the holes, but you just keep working hard, thinking the bucket will fill up eventually. If I just work harder, I work harder and what happens is you burn out and you get sick and the money still leaks out. So we have to patch that bucket first. And how do we do that? By doing an expense review. And the amount of times I always use one client from many years ago. I had encouraged him to do this expense review for a number of months and he was like no, we're all good, like the business was going okay, don't need to do it. And when he finally did it, he found a insurance policy $72 still coming out of his bank account for a car that he had sold five years prior.
Speaker 10:He called the insurance company. Thankfully they refunded him two years worth. But that all adds up and I use that example every single time and the amount of clients that laugh and go. That's ridiculous, like that would never happen. And then come back to me and go guess what I just found Something every day, all right.
Speaker 1:So this next guest I would like to say has become a bit of a buddy of mine. We've known each other for a long time now. Chris Cahill, from Prime Built down in Melbourne. He's a member of our LiveLiveBuild community and just absolutely kicking goals, but it was actually quite hard to get him to come and sit down the seat. He keeps doing himself.
Speaker 1:He's a bit of a quiet guy but seriously, the value that he gave through this podcast was off the charts and he talks a lot about how he's been able to really build structure. Trust. Communication is huge, not just in their building business but in life, and all this, when it's come together really well for him, has actually freed up a lot of his time. He gets a lot more time with his family and stuff now, which is really valuable for him, and I think, at the end of the day, that's what we're all after. So, yeah, listen to this one. It's a cracker. Hey, mate, can we touch on your team a little bit, because you mentioned before we weren't recording. You're very lucky to have your supervisor and the team that you've got, which allows you to do a lot of stuff now that your old boy couldn't do in his business.
Speaker 12:Yeah, absolutely so. It's funny. So we're not bigger. I think there's six of us, six or seven of us made up of sort of on-site guys, carpenters and apprentices, and I've got myself and Jess in the office so it just helps out with admin and some business development and stuff like that. And I mean even herself she's a story she's done a PhD. She was I'm going to get this wrong Jess, sorry an orthoptist, which they know a lot about eyes, and she got sick of that industry.
Speaker 1:Just saying it was a shit show, basically, and you know she, is she a client? Yeah, I still find that an amazing story.
Speaker 12:Yeah, so she did our preliminary process and jumped on and it was funny.
Speaker 1:So you had a client that did your preliminary process and thought it was that great that she then come and work for you.
Speaker 12:Yeah, well, so I like yeah, jess is.
Speaker 1:Long story short Educate.
Speaker 12:And I'm like yep, I was emailed back so I just made a real hurry this, that and the other, yeah, meeting this afternoon, and something like that. You don't know anyone who wants a job, do you? Or something like that. It was a throwaway comment in an email and then she wrote an email back and it was this long-winded like thing that was like well, actually, even if you mention it such and such, I'd be really interested if there was a position to apply for, or is there someone like somewhere I can formally apply for it, and stuff like that. I'm sitting there reading it going. Is this a piss take or what? She's got one up on me here and anyway, we just explored that further. And then she's completely changed industries to come and to come and work for us, which is good, because I have long spoken about the lack of professionalism from top to bottom, like whether it's trades or, you know, offices or whatever.
Speaker 12:Just people's experience like can come up like several notches, and it's not hard because there's so much low-lying fruit, if you will, for this exact you know, opportunity to do that and yeah, so she's come on board and yeah, she's just steamrolled the office and it's good.
Speaker 1:It's been really like I just I love sitting behind the scenes, live a lot built now and seeing all you guys just killing it and like I pick up all the little things and like it's been unreal seeing you do your Friday wins, or even just the phone conversation we have every now and then, because you've really run like since you bought her in, like you've really run with handing stuff over to her and putting systems and processes in place to allow her to do what she needs to do. Like I think it's fantastic because that's obviously freed your mind up to focus on other things.
Speaker 12:It stems back to that saying dad do everything. Mom and dad, you know what I mean. And then I sit there and go. Why can't builders control their time and take the kids to sport and do all that sort of stuff, like their family's really young. So we, like I want to do that. You know what I mean. And dad did that too. Like well, I played footy on a Sunday. That was probably the only time he took off to come and watch me play, yeah, but yeah, certainly the team does that. And, like Ryan, who's a supervisor, has been with me. So I met Ryan at trade school.
Speaker 12:We did my apprenticeship at the same time and it was funny because he I said to dad when I was working in dad's building business. I said, look, there's a guy.
Speaker 9:I think he's going to be good, he gets it.
Speaker 12:He gets it and he said I'll come and work for you as long as you still swing past for a beer as mates. You know it was kind of just be work and a few fast forward 17 years to now. That's pretty funny because it's pretty hard to pin down for anything but work. He's like he's like the guy creeping around the job site at 530 in the morning, right, and he's list for the day, which is just remarkable, but yeah he.
Speaker 12:So he's been with you 17 years. Yeah, so he, he said to dad and myself he said I'll do anything you want, just don't give me a set of plans. Now he's running all of our jobs and I laugh at these. He laughs as well. It's all pretty pretty good, but yeah, it's, he's good. So you know. And then we've got carbon, as you know, the bimbers of two, three years and lots of stuff.
Speaker 1:So you need someone in your team. Like that, don't you Like? I think one of the first things I tell a lot of builders now when they ask me like how do I do what I do? Like, and I say it's not, I can't do it on my own. Like, you've got to have a team, You've got to understand your numbers, You've got to make sure you're covering your costs so that you can employ other people to give you well, not just time back, but your life back. And you'll never, you'll never have an efficient, successful business if you're running around chasing your tail all the time.
Speaker 12:No, and it takes an army, like that's what we make around the same. But it's true. Like you know, I could, I could take on more and more work and our process, from the office and you know, the administration through to the delivery, through to just simple things, like I remember when I introduced sending out agendas for the weekly site meeting and making sure that minutes were followed up, and I remember Ryan looking at me like he's serious, can I just have the meeting? And you know what I mean. And I, you know I see the whites of his eyes and you know you ask him now and he's, he's like he's, he's loves doing it. He locks himself away for our afternoons, make sure he follows through with it all and it just flows through and it because the structures there, like we can do so much more work.
Speaker 1:I think that's the key word structure you got to. You got to have some structure behind things.
Speaker 12:Yeah, it's funny that, like the growth thing, like you mentioned before what, what sort of spawn that? But it, that's through everyone. Like the industry's been fairly stagnant for so long and the attitude is that I've finished my apprenticeship, what's left to learn? Yeah, you know speaking of trainees.
Speaker 1:I got my license. What's left to learn? Let's just go earn money, yeah.
Speaker 12:Like that's just all it is, you know, and it's a road to nowhere.
Speaker 1:Like you see, guys who just have that attitude and they drop and bombs button Like that's a bomb. What have I done? You just dropped a bomb, did I?
Speaker 12:Yeah, that was good. Well, it is but they don't.
Speaker 1:That's Bradley thing. Do you listen to Bradley? You're dropping bomb for us. It's a bloody cracker mate.
Speaker 12:No, but they don't like. I mean it's a generalization, but like Ryan's perfect example, he didn't want plans put in his hand. You know the guy can't assume more responsibility for through it. I mean, like he's just he's he's he can, like he's just he's just a sponge for it. But what first, you know, put a little bit of protest up and I think we've pretty good mates. Like we tell us, he'll determine to get stuff too.
Speaker 12:If like, but we seeing that now and they can see the benefits of it, and like we've, we've hired stuff off the back of it. Like we, you know, if we're recruiting, we show, show them, you know the apps we use, the process, this is how we do this. So then they're sitting there just looking and going. What you know what I mean? Like, yeah, when you employ new people, yeah.
Speaker 12:Yeah, we have one this year. Matt sort of said I asked him what's what sticks out from where else you've worked? He just said it gets just communication, like it's it's you know what you're up for. So and that's good, and that's it's the aim is. I mean, we're business owners, that's our choice. But to be able to go home and switch off, you know, or take the kids to sport or go on a holiday, like I am now, whatever it's going to be, is a remarkable thing and but you want, like they may not always know. I try and let them know, but you won't actually want that for them as well, like guys. This is why we have a pre-start.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 12:So that you can set up, get your day nailed like, and then just just storm it and then go home, know, run a control and do it again the next day and and you know what I mean, like, opportunities are there and yeah it's good, yeah, and that's so.
Speaker 1:That's the full circle. Back to what I touched on before. Like you went, once you've got that structure, like if, if so many builders and and tradies but mainly builders if, if they put more a bit of time into themselves, understood they're running cost their business, started charging what they need to charge, have the money in the business to employ the back end staff, all the administration staff. You can double or triple the volume of work you do with the same site team by having more structure and you're not running around like an idiot trying to keep up with all the administration stuff. Yeah, it is, it's a no brainer, it's yeah.
Speaker 12:I mean you can read all the books and say be proactive instead of reactive, all this stuff, but how? You know what I mean there's there's ways to do it and there's just simple key things, like if we don't have one of the biggest things for us as a site meetings yeah. I. I originally thought too, like every week that's a lot. You're having those conversations and seeing them anyway, you might as well, structure them, make them a time that fits nicely into your calendar for the duration of the project.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 12:And there's and like there's always stuff to go through, yeah, but even if it's, even if there's not, there is like I don't think we've had one yet. There hasn't been anything to go through this job related or project related. But you know, even on the ones that are largely nailed and you know, maybe not much has changed since the week before or, you know, a few things have fallen in place, whatever.
Speaker 1:but it's a cup of coffee and a chinwag or whatever it's got to be, and you're building a relationship. Yeah, you can only know everything's on track and yeah, yeah, Like you say there's, there's, there's never a time there's nothing to talk about. Like if, if, if, it is lean on. You're always talking about the schedule of the job and what's coming up next and what's being done.
Speaker 1:Like and and to me that is just so valuable for the relationship that you build with a client, like for them to see what's going on, to know what's going on, and I like again, I think it's that whole, it's just that structure of everything falling into place, like by doing that every week, like how easy does it make your hand over?
Speaker 12:Yeah, oh yeah, like I don't, I and over shouldn't go more than an hour.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 12:Like not, you know, because they're kind of getting, but you know, I mean it should be that easy.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 12:They know you've communicated. Everything that needs to be done is usually done by then anyway, but yeah. And what the obligations are there after you know. Here's the key to your own happy days.
Speaker 1:All right, to say that I was super pumped that this next guest agreed to come on the level up podcast is an understatement. So the next guest was Matt Risinger. Look, I've looked up to Matt. He's probably the person that really made me get off my ass Maybe I don't know three, four, five years ago and start putting myself out there, because I saw everything that he was doing. And to have someone that I've looked up to for that amount of time come on my podcast and have a chat to me was just yeah, it was a massive win for 2023. And, look, matt talks about a lot of things that we all need to be doing, and that is that you don't need to take on every single project. And look, have a listen to what Matt talks about, because he tells a real life story that so many of us in the industry can resonate with. And that is what happens when you take on the wrong client.
Speaker 15:Now everybody is is our client, though, too, and not everybody fits in our ethos and our similar desire to build houses that are going to last. Some people have a very short or short term thinkers, and those end up not being great clients or great fits for us. And you know, luckily, it sounds like you're in a good market, and so am I, where we can be a little selective and picky and not just go after every job and plenty of meetings that I've been in the last six months. I've said something in the effect of you know, I just don't think that we're the right fit for you as a builder. I may give you a recommendation to a friend of mine who I think might be a better fit, but from what you're telling me, I don't think that we're going to be the best match for you for what you're looking for.
Speaker 1:That's really powerful, isn't it Like being in a position where you have the confidence to say you're not the client for me. Like that's massive for your business, isn't it?
Speaker 15:Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I'd like to say we always say that real upfront. But sometimes we also say you know, gosh, I would love to work on this. We've got a two year wait list. So if you're willing to give us a deposit, we'd love to give you a call in two years when we free up. And those are the people I really don't want to work with. But I don't want to say we don't want to work with you. I'd want to those not too long ago that if you want to hear the story, I'll tell you the longer version of it.
Speaker 15:But, yeah, that's the polite version.
Speaker 1:Mate, tell us the story, because I think this is important, like I really put this out there to build us. Like you need to have a strategy to walk away from the clients that you don't, for whatever reason, don't fit with your business model. Because, yeah, if your guts is telling you that they're not the right person, all it's going to do is cause a lot of time, heartache, wasted money, and you could have been putting that energy into a client that does want to work with you or does appreciate what you're bringing to the table.
Speaker 15:That's right.
Speaker 1:So here's the, here's the fast story.
Speaker 15:I was at my office one day after hours it was you know 530, everyone was gone and the phone rang and I saw I saw the caller ID and I was like huh, that's not recognized that number. It didn't seem like it was a sales call, it felt like it was an individual calling. I thought I should, I should grab this. So I get, I feel, the call and turns out it's a prospect calling the office about a build and we have a like a 10 question protocol that whoever answers the phone like go through these questions With the prospect, you know how far along in the process are you? Do you have a piece of dirt already? Have you already gauged an architect? You know, do you have any idea of what budget range you're looking in All these questions, that kind of anyone who answers the phone can get some basic information. And then if it's, you know, let's say, if it's my accounting team that answers the phone, you know they can pass it on to me or one of my business partners to. You know, feel the real sales call. So I get this call, I'm going through the questions with this guy and I'm like wow, this is a terrific prospect, like he has a really good budget. He seems to really care about well built construction. You know, like he's saying all the right stuff and I was like this is great, you know, and he's already kind of down the road with an architect that I knew and liked. So this is, I'm thinking this is a, this is terrific. I can't believe. I answered the phone, what a win.
Speaker 15:And then towards the end of the call he says something like yeah, I don't think I can get together with you next week. After all, I forgot I got to be in my other town we're removing from because we're finishing up some some things with this other builder. I was like, oh, you know, have you built before? What's the story? Well, he goes on to tell me he's suing his builder in this new home that he finished not too long ago and he's got to finish up the lawsuit and take care of some things. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like wow, I can't believe I was he number one. I'm surprised he told me number two. I'm like I got to dig in a little more here. So I dig a little more. It turns out his wife is an attorney and there's, and the wife specializes in suing contractors in her firm and turns out he's got some.
Speaker 15:I don't want to get into the story in case they're listening, but or I can't imagine you know they are. But long story short, I get into kind of the specifics of why he's suing the builder and I'm like, oh my gosh, like I'm so thankful this guy was willing to tell me this. And that's when I went into the sounds like a great project. We're booked out till 2027. But you know, I'd love to get, get you our contract and take a deposit from you and then, as we free up, as we get closer in 2026, we'd love to call you. He's like, oh, that's not going to work. We got to. You know, we got to move forward sooner than that. I was like, oh shucks, that's too bad.
Speaker 15:I'll be sure to not recommend any other builders to you. Like, who's my worst enemy, I'll recommend him Right Like yeah, who would get a roof? Who would you want to possibly refer to? Somebody who's in process from suing his current contractor?
Speaker 15:It was just one of those phone calls You're like, wow, I'm so thankful I got the real story from this person. So I bet every contractor has some story like that, where they found out at some point in the process that, wow, this person would have been incredibly difficult to work with. I'm so thankful I dodged that bullet.
Speaker 1:All right, so the last one in the best of 2023 is Adrian Ramsey. He's a building designer from Sunshine Coast. I've actually become good mates with Adrian and we talk quite regularly. He's got just incredible values, and the part in the podcast that we really connected on was where Adrian talks about land whispering, actually taking the time out to go and visit clients, blocks the land and connect with it, and how he uses that connection to then design people's dream homes, and it was an incredible conversation. It taught me a lot and, look, it's definitely since that podcast, it's definitely made me think about things a lot differently and has sparked a few conversations with the architects and designers that I work with.
Speaker 16:So land whispering was actually a conversation between myself and an amazing architect in Mirren County in California, brad Hubbell. And Brad Hubbell from Hubbell Daily, absolutely beautiful architect, lovely, lovely human being and him and I having this conversation and I was telling him about on my podcast, jeffrey Dungan, who's an architect from Alabama, and Jeffrey was saying to me you know well, you know what it's like. You look out across a site and you know the building kind of just stands up in front of you and really all we do is fill boxes with light near. And I went, I do know what it's like. I know what it's like to stand there and envisage a house and see that house sitting in amongst the trees or wherever it is, sitting on the beach front, whatever. And I was saying this to Brad and Brad and I were having a laugh about this and I'll tell you one other little story with it About.
Speaker 16:You know, each place, especially acreage, land, each piece of land has a feeling it's got an energy in the ground, it's got something that you can tap into. You probably have to get to a quiet space or center and you know, be just be calm down in that space. For us ADHD guys that's not so easy, but I hear what you're saying. Get to the space where you actually start to tune into what's around and you're listening to the birdsong and you're looking at how the light comes through the trees, say, and you're looking at how the winds shifted, things where the waters run and all these things on the land and there's places that you just walk over and you know that isn't a spot that you'd ever consider for a house. And there's other spots that you imagine other things happening in, not just. You're not just looking for a house site. You're looking for an environment, your place making. You know you've got these boundaries that you can work within. You're looking to make a place of community. You know connection and security for a family or for whatever it is If we go with the family, and one of the other things with that is is what's sacred about those spaces. And if we look to what, say, for instance, a space that might give you the most amazing spot to picnic or to be away from your house, but be, if you see, from your house maybe, but it's like a space that just gives a whole another energy. And this comes back to the story I was telling him at the time.
Speaker 16:So another good friend of mine, amazing architect out of Austin, texas, and I won't use his name because the story's pretty funny I'm talking to him one day about Frank Lloyd Wright and he goes, and I can use my language, I go. I said something about Frank Lloyd Wright and he goes that Frank Lloyd Wright was an asshole. And I'm like, mate, he was a bloody top architect of you know the last century. And he goes yeah, but he was an asshole. And I'm like, what do you mean? He was an asshole. And he goes oh well, what an arrogant bastard, you know, da, da, da, da. And I said tell me more. You know, bring it on, tell me more. And he goes well, take that falling waterhouse. And I'm like, yeah, and I said most famous house in the world, you know. And he goes yeah, exactly, he goes. There's this family, the Craftmans. He used to come up from Pittsburgh and sit on Bear Run Creek and they used to summer on this rock and swim in the pools and all the rest. That prick put a house on it.
Speaker 16:And I'm like as much as I was, like you're pissed off. I go this is a very valid point. He goes, he's got a kiss of country there. He could have put a house on and they could have still picked on that rock swam on it, done that every summer.
Speaker 16:But they're arrogant, son of a bitch, put a house on it and I'm like interesting, eh, that's gonna get some people talking, yeah, well, this is when you go back to isn't a sacred spot? Yeah, and is the spot sacred enough that you would preserve it and not put a house on it, but put a house in its proximity so that it became available? And so when you're considering your land and you're feeling full that energy in the land, look for the sacred spots and what are they sacred for and how would you use them. And it might not be for a house. So I look at that and I go this is part of our land whispering process. Brad and I got into this conversation about this and we started talking about different land. We'd walked on and the way different land ignites us and the way we see things happen in it, and so we expanded that conversation to quite a few other architects, and there's currently four of us around the globe and we all practice it in a semi-structured process how to whisper a piece of land, how to get one with it.
Speaker 16:Look for what it is. You often don't want the client there. You might have had the client there. What you want is to be there on your own. Often it's lovely to be there before the sun comes up. It's lovely to be there after the sun's gone down. I don't know.
Speaker 1:I'm like, as you're talking, we've just recently purchased a farm up north on the ocean and I'm just picturing as you're talking and thinking like fuck, this is awesome. And so we've been camping on this spot because it's the ones that we just saw and we were thinking that's where we would possibly put a house. Yeah, let's put a house. Right on that spot.
Speaker 16:Now you'll consider Now I'm thinking shit, we maybe need to, because maybe that spot is for that casualness, for that openness and for that maybe it's a fire pit, maybe it's something like that that you can still engage the spot before you go and put a bloody, dirty house on it. That changes the wherever it goes for everyone, wherever it goes forever. Yeah, and like this thing of walking over it and letting yourself feel it and becoming in touch with it and listening, sitting and listening, and listening in the morning and listening in the afternoon. It's not a one visit wonder. It's like it's actually going and digging in and looking what the wind does and seeing when the birds come and where they fly in and out of.
Speaker 16:Where do the you know roos go or whatever there is, what are the stuffs on the land? How are you honoring all that? Yeah, because that's our responsibility to the planet, because whatever we do is gonna change it. Whatever we do and we're gonna do something is gonna change it. So how do we have the least impact with what we do to change it and the most impact for the humans that come into it and then create this incredible environment? So that's our land whispering process and we'll do that. For even if we're looking at, say, an original house that's already on, something is where did the other people make magic outside of that house? What happens, where's the dynamic and where does the land allow for that dynamic to happen? So it's a I love it.
Speaker 7:It's fantastic.
Speaker 16:I kind of go to a bit of a woo woo process, but it's not no, I love it and it's fantastic. Yeah, it's a responsibility is the way I see it.
Speaker 1:I actually feel like doing this pack process that we have. I believe it has made me such a better builder. It's made me understand design and architecture a lot more. But I love all this stuff because I and again, I feel that so many builders don't like. They just think they're there to build the house. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like put concrete, put up block, put up brick, this stuff just adds so much more value to everybody, like when everybody's on the same page and working towards this and like all this. Like, mate, the last 10 minutes of what you've been talking about just resonates so much with me because I've I actually like I know everything is driven by costs, of course, and I know that everyone. Like my thing at the moment, or something that I really think about a lot, is like the way that Australia is developing and like there's all these master plan communities popping up everywhere and the houses are like boundary to boundary and they've got enough room at the back just to have maybe a pool and a little bit of yard. And the developers feel that because, like every so many homes, they've got these big parks, no one's connected. Like parents aren't gonna send their kids out to play at the park that's two streets away And-.
Speaker 16:No, not today.
Speaker 1:Like no one can go and sit in their backyard now and look at a beautiful garden or a bit of a view, because you're looking at your neighbor's fence.
Speaker 16:What happened to when we didn't have fences? Yeah, what happened to when you had a house and it sat there and there was no fence on the to the road? There was, so there was no barrier to entry. There was no barrier to entry to your neighbors. In fact, if they mowed half your lawn, or you mowed half their lawn, you wouldn't really know that it was mowed because there was no boundary line. What happened to when we lived like that, where we put up a house and then we got I don't know whether we got more and more fearful, or whether society got sicker and sicker, or whether both things happened and suddenly, like we're living with fences, walls.
Speaker 1:Well, we've got to a society where a lot of neighbors don't even know each other. Yeah, exactly Like they don't even talk, like the, but like where I'm going with that is, it doesn't matter how like it seems these days, it doesn't matter how big the blocks are in like residential areas, people are just making the biggest house they can, the biggest house they can.
Speaker 16:On it, follow up.
Speaker 1:I would make and like we're at a point now in our journey like if anything ever happened or we had to buy a smaller house or whatever. Like I know some of the housing estates now doing 280 square meter blocks or 320 square meter blocks and that stuff and they're filling the whole thing with house. Yep, I would rather stick a tiny house like on that block and create these amazing outdoor spaces 100%.
Speaker 12:Five pits pool area.
Speaker 1:So even though you've got a small block, A bathroom and a bedroom. You can still do what you're talking about. You've still got somewhere that you can create special times and sit outside and watch the sunrise and the sunset.
Speaker 16:We do live in Queensland 330 sunshine days a year for anybody who's listening, but like I don't know, it's. I'm with you. I love everything you're talking about. I think it's very powerful.
Speaker 1:All right, guys. So that's a wrap. Look, I take my hat off to everybody that, look, takes time out to listen to my podcast. I know that time is the most valuable thing we have. And look, to know that you guys and girls are all taking time out to sit and listen to my podcast. It means the absolute world to me and I appreciate it from the bottom of my heart. So, look, I'm gonna keep delivering. I'm gonna take this thing next level in 2024. Shane, I've got some incredible guests already lined up and we're gonna be expanding. We're going wider. I know all the things that I've done in my life in my business to get to where I am and be able to do everything that I'm doing. So I'm reaching out and bringing on guests that I know will help you do the same things that I'm doing. So it's not gonna be all just about building. We're gonna be talking about all types of stuff, especially personal development. So, look, make sure you join us. You continue listening and, yeah, let's level up the building industry.
Speaker 6:Are you ready to build smart out, live better and enjoy life? Then head on to livelifelcom forward slash, elevate to get started.
Speaker 1:Everything discussed during the level up podcast with me Dwayne Pierce is based solely on my own personal experiences and those experiences of my guests. The information, opinions and recommendations presented in this podcast are for general information only, and any reliance on the information provided in this podcast is done at your own risk. We recommend that you obtain your own professional advice in respect to the topics discussed during this podcast.