Level Up with Duayne Pearce
How Being Told "I Was a Silly Little Girl" Has Made Me a Leader in the Industry.
Ever been tickled by the thought of construction comedy? Prepare to have your funny bone hammered as we join forces with New Zealand's own Jen Jones, the Instagram sensation turning industry stereotypes on their head with a blend of humor and hard hats. This episode takes you on a scaffolding-high adventure through the peaks and pitfalls of renovation, the charm of an alluring low quote, and the critical missteps when builders are sidelined in the design phase.
Let's get personal – with branding, that is. As someone who swapped the corporate ladder for the social media soapbox, I'll reveal the gritty and gratifying truth of cultivating a personal brand that resonates with clients and customers alike. We'll share how laughter can lay the foundation for business growth, and why picking the right clients isn't just about the bottom line; it's about crafting a career that's as sturdy as the structures we build.
Wrapping up with a coat of green paint, we'll hammer home the importance of sustainability in our field. From double-glazing the windows to double-tapping on Instagram, we're nailing down the conversation on eco-friendly alternatives and their sustainable, stylish impact. Don't miss this episode where we mix concrete evidence with a dash of comedic relief, providing a hard hat area for both enlightenment and entertainment.
We're on a mission to elevate the professionalism of the residential construction industry, and help everyone enjoy building and renovating homes.
Easy to use Quoting software for Builders. Produce professional and accurate proposals. Quickly and accurately measure and markup plans in minutes. Win more jobs and track costs. 21 Day Free Trial.
Living PurposedWe want to gather with a purposeful intention to explore the world around us. ...
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
check out more podcasts here...
https://levelupwithduaynepearce.buzzsprout.com
Ever been tickled by the thought of construction comedy? Prepare to have your funny bone hammered as we join forces with New Zealand's own Jen Jones, the Instagram sensation turning industry stereotypes on their head with a blend of humor and hard hats. This episode takes you on a scaffolding-high adventure through the peaks and pitfalls of renovation, the charm of an alluring low quote, and the critical missteps when builders are sidelined in the design phase.
Let's get personal – with branding, that is. As someone who swapped the corporate ladder for the social media soapbox, I'll reveal the gritty and gratifying truth of cultivating a personal brand that resonates with clients and customers alike. We'll share how laughter can lay the foundation for business growth, and why picking the right clients isn't just about the bottom line; it's about crafting a career that's as sturdy as the structures we build.
Wrapping up with a coat of green paint, we'll hammer home the importance of sustainability in our field. From double-glazing the windows to double-tapping on Instagram, we're nailing down the conversation on eco-friendly alternatives and their sustainable, stylish impact. Don't miss this episode where we mix concrete evidence with a dash of comedic relief, providing a hard hat area for both enlightenment and entertainment.
We're on a mission to elevate the professionalism of the residential construction industry, and help everyone enjoy building and renovating homes.
Easy to use Quoting software for Builders. Produce professional and accurate proposals. Quickly and accurately measure and markup plans in minutes. Win more jobs and track costs. 21 Day Free Trial.
Living PurposedWe want to gather with a purposeful intention to explore the world around us. ...
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
check out more podcasts here...
https://levelupwithduaynepearce.buzzsprout.com
Welcome to the renovation. How about you speak with you? What seems to be the problem? Running halfway through your renovation and your builder has already invoiced more than the original quote. Have you made any changes to the score? You haven't. Do you have that quote handy? Can you check the quote and just tell me if the extra items the invoice for are in the exclusions section? Yes, that's correct. The exclusions usually are scored. That is negated.
Speaker 1:I know it's very frustrating, but did you get more than one quote for your renovation project? You got three. Okay, great. And how did the other quotes compare? You chose the cheapest one and now it's more expensive. So you didn't hire the builder that was involved in the design process because their quote was the most expensive. Look, unfortunately, ma'am, in situations where you have multiple quotes and one is the builder who was involved in the design process, we often find that their quote is the most expensive. It's not because they're ripping you off. They have a more intimate knowledge of the renovation scope and are more likely to include all of it. So I'm unable to progress this particular complaint any further. In fact, I would consider this outcome calmer, for not hiring the builder you worked with during the design process for free. Is there anything else that I can assist with today?
Speaker 2:G'day everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Level Up. We are in the office today because we've got an international guest coming all the way from New Zealand. As usual, we're going to have another cracking episode. I'm actually pretty pumped about this one. I've been drawing around my job sites all morning and getting all ramped up because I believe we've got the funniest person in the construction industry with us today, Because I know every. My wife actually introduced me to our guest today and every time I see our videos on Instagram I just absolutely piss myself laughing. So massive one. Welcome to Jen Jones. How are you?
Speaker 3:Really good, thank you. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:Look, you really make me laugh. I'm looking forward to today's conversation. I am and look, I know it's not all fun and games. You have a professional background, so I'd really like to drive into that and talk more about that. But can I start off? How did you, I guess, start using comedy to get your message across? Because I think it's fantastic.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thank you. I just honestly, instagram content can be so stale when you're trying to make it informative, and I just wanted to create content that would get a message across, and the easiest way to do that is to layer and humor, and I have absolutely no shame. So I just thought, like I'm going to give this concept a notch, I'm going to see if it's stuck and it has. So I've done. I've done quite a few editions of the of the Jen's Renault Helpline now and, yeah, they go quite well. They go quite well.
Speaker 2:But Jen's Renault Helpline is hilarious, like the way that you do. It is just bang on, like it is 100% accurate, but with that comedy in there, it just. I absolutely love it and, like I said, there's been a few of your videos that I've had tees rolling in my eyes. So anyone that hasn't checked out Jen's videos on Instagram, go and check them out. They're hilarious. But tell us a little bit about your background, because it all, it all, hasn't always been funny.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, I've had to layer and bend her for most of my career just to survive. To be honest, as you can probably imagine, as a young blonde female in construction, I do think it's a lot easier these days for young women. It's a lot more common for us to be in the sector. But yeah, 10, 15 years ago definitely a bit of a slog to get started and I've had to let a lot of shit just roll off the back, particularly in those first few years in the industry. Otherwise I don't think I would ever have survived, to be honest, yeah, look, this really amazed me.
Speaker 2:It's something that I'm definitely a bit big advocate for. I think women play a massive role in our industry. I think you're bringing so much more talent to the table, different opinions, all those types of things. I say it all the time. Like I think you're aware. Like my business partner my training business is Milly Lee. Like I have my wife and account manager in my office. Like my businesses definitely wouldn't be where they are if it wasn't without having females around me.
Speaker 1:Like.
Speaker 2:I don't know, like you had like I said you had so much more value. You bring a different opinion. Like I know back in the day when we were running a shit show, like everything would just get out of my skin and piss me off, and like the way my wife deals with that side of it is very different. So she's like the calms the client down and gets everything nice and rosy again. That doesn't happen now because we're running a really good business but women have so much to offer and yet you really don't get too much respect. Like I think obviously it has come a long way, but the industry's still got a very long way to go.
Speaker 3:I think you can say what you want about you know feminism and equality, but the fact of the manner is that men and women are made differently. We have different skills, we are genetically predisposed to being better at certain things and, you know, organization is really a big part of that which plays in quite strongly to my role as a project manager. But yeah, I mean I've had some really interesting things said to me. I guess the good thing about New Zealand as a country, and particularly within the construction industry, is that it is reasonably small. So once I was able to break into it and earn that respect, it was a lot easier because I was quite often working with a lot of the same people from project to project, no matter which company that I worked for, and already having those relationships established just like anybody else in the industry, to be honest. But already earning that respect and the fact that I had capability and people wanted to work with me really helped me to then build my career beyond that point.
Speaker 3:But the first few years were tough. I think one of the most memorable things that someone said to me and he was probably in a it is 50s, maybe one of New Zealand's largest construction companies. That's how he worked for, and I just remember him saying to me no one's ever going to listen to a silly little girl like you, and you can probably imagine from my personality, from what you've seen on social media, that just generated a fiery rage within me to be like you know what? Fuck you, I'm going to prove you wrong. And actually now, even just looking at my reels, there are literally over a million people who are certainly listening to me now.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I think that, well, you've just mentioned a few really key points. I think the first one like, I agree with you 100%. Men and women are very different. We're created very differently and, yeah, we all do need to find our strengths and weaknesses and those types of things, but together, like, we all have a role to play and, yeah, female definitely can add a lot of value. But what you're just saying them about how that lit a fire. I think that is really important. Like so many people would maybe get told that and that would ruin their entire career and possibly their life, and they'd still stay sheltered under, like hidden away from things, whereas you use it as a superpower and almost and just skyrocketed because of that frustration, I guess so it's. Look, I don't know. I think men need to think a bit differently about the way they communicate sometimes.
Speaker 2:But everyone's got their place, so that's the worst thing you've been told Like what's the best thing. Obviously, you've had some great feedback over the years. What's the best thing you've been told?
Speaker 3:Well, I'm currently filming a TV show about renovations, particularly sustainable renovations, which is something that I'm quite passionate about, and the producer actually said to me and bearing in mind that the most of the cast and crew have, like they know nothing about the sector little loan sustainability or vice versa and she said to me, jen, you just have this way of making really complicated, boring shit sound simplistic. And I thought do you know what? To me, that's actually a massive compliment, because so much of what I do is communication and, you know, translating technical information into a really simple, easy to understand way. You know, for homeowners to be able to understand and get through that process, and not everybody can afford to hire a project manager and actually have me do the job for them. So it's really important that I can communicate information with, particularly, my Instagram community, because that's the only source of help they have through that process. So to me, that was a huge, huge compliment and definitely some of the best feedback I've ever had.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's fantastic. But the way you do your videos on Instagram like you're breaking the ice yes, so many people like there's so many homeowners out there that just wouldn't own up to doing things that they do and creating their own problems, and there'd also be a lot of builders out there that get themselves into shit because of their own problems. But the way you do it and just putting a bit of comedy around it, I think there'd be a lot of people that watch your videos and go holy shit. Yeah, that's me, that's what we did.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think at the moment, so far the Renault Heartline Reels that I've created have actually all kind of been directed more to homeowners. Like these are things that I see homeowners doing. Indeed, this is how homeowners as a group of people could be better. But it's really hard to communicate some of that feedback with homeowners without them being offended or defensive, and so by creating a funny Renault help line out of it, I'm able to kind of get that message across in a way that doesn't necessarily offend as much as definitely being some haters. But do you know what? Anybody who can't have a laugh and and see the humor and something like that is not my ideal client anyways, so it kind of doesn't really matter.
Speaker 2:I think when you get haters, it means you're doing something right, you're getting it.
Speaker 3:It's probably totally yeah.
Speaker 2:So, look, do you have? Uh, imagine you have notes on your phone or a little notebook now and like every situation that pops into your mind Like, oh, I got to do a video on that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I have. I have a little bullet point list of um, of ideas, of things that I want to create, um, and I get a lot of people sending me ideas as well and wanting to collaborate and be the other person on the other side and stuff like that. So, yeah, lots of um, lots more in the pipeline, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think what you're doing is important for all businesses. Like it's like it's obviously become a huge thing for you. Like you've found this little niche and by putting yourself out there and doing what you do, I'm sure it's made your business grow. Like for doing things. Like you're doing things differently, so obviously you get clients coming to you wanting advice.
Speaker 3:Well it's. It's certainly grown. My present online Um and actually quite a large proportion of my annual revenue comes from content creation with with brands who want to get out of my audience because, you know, their renovation brands are leaving Um, so it definitely falls in quite nicely to that and it's really important to me and business and it should be for most people in business to have a diversified revenue stream. So you know, I've got my direct clients, which I'm quite selected about because I'm able to be, because I have these other forms of revenue. I've got my my own podcast, which is a form of revenue.
Speaker 3:I've got my um. I created all these online resources for homeowners like ebooks and templates and checklists and my e-calls and stuff like that Um, and then I've got this sort of these, these brand partnerships. So um, and I guess in an indirect way, my um, organic content, which is the, the stuff that's not paid for by by brands my organic content content has helped to build my profile and make me a more attractive person to part with, which means like Drake then was other strains of revenue, which is which is a really cool thing, and it had been totally by accident.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I think it's, I think it's fantastic and I think it again, it's an important point for anyone in our industry. It's like I'm a big fan that you've got to create a brand. It's quite un like. I find it amazing. It seems like in the last couple of years, like the most powerful and, um, I guess, profitable brands are personal brands Totally. People want to see like people want. I think it's because with, like I know from everything we're doing and putting out there and we have a no means huge, um, people can connect.
Speaker 2:So like I, think, by building your own personal brand, um, you attract like-minded people. So everyone that you end up having a round you and working with is very similar. So it's you're working like I know. Um, I'd love to hear your experience. But, like my experience now with um, my building business, with our training business, with our quoting business, like everything we do, I just love it, like the people around me uh, around me because they value what I'm doing and they're like they're on the same page.
Speaker 2:So building a personal brand has been incredible for for our businesses. So do you find that same sort of thing?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely I. Um, when I originally started my business, I was I was actually on maternity leave from my, my previous delivery job and I had this idea of, you know, using my 12 months of maternity leave to test out this business concept and see if it, you know, see if it had legs and and and had a future, before I went and resigned and gave up, you know, gave up my, my very cushy salary for the main contract that I worked for, and and through that process, I put none of me on social media because I didn't want it to get back to them, I didn't want them to know. And the day that I resigned and started showing up on social media, the difference in engagement and content and and my ability to then actually launch my renovation resources and convert those was incredible. And then, about maybe 12, 15, 18 months ago, something like that, I changed my handle from being my business name to renovate with Jen Jones, and that again, massive, massive shift and engagement and then conversion to sales and other opportunities being opened up because I was building up, building up a profile for myself, essentially, and that was how I spent the I'm going to say maternity leave with my second child.
Speaker 3:It's not really maternity leave when you're self employed, but I kind of made a conscious effort to go okay, well, I am going to. I am going to pull back from client work across this year, but I'm going to invest my nap time, my son's nap times and writing columns and contributing to media pieces and showing up on social media in a way that helps to build a profile for myself as an, as an expert or an authoritative voice in my industry and it's definitely definitely paid off. The opportunities that it's opened up for me in business this year and again for those other diverse revenue streams has been incredible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's unreal because you're you're currently filming, aren't you, for an upcoming TV show?
Speaker 3:I am Yep, and that's about all I can tell you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, no, that's, that's fine, but yeah, stay tuned. Follow Jen on socials, I'm sure we'll find out soon. But those sorts of opportunities are fantastic and obviously that's going to build your profile even more. So, yeah, good on you.
Speaker 3:And in my podcast as well. I was really fortunate in that my podcast got packed up by or the concept, before it even launched. It got packed up by a local media company and they actually ended up peering me with a radio host and he is a super humble, down-to-earth guy who was renovating his home and he kind of plays the role of this rookie renovator and then I'm the expert and then we interview other people in the industry and it's a really, really cool format. But being able to leverage off the reach of the media company and also his profile as a radio host and and you know the demographic that he brings to the podcast and for me has been really, really cool. Just, they'll get it right that that sort of, that sort of built up.
Speaker 2:Excellent. What's your podcast? Called for everyone Listen.
Speaker 3:Renovation Nation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, awesome, check it out, Check it out. Does it? Do you throw some comedy in that, or is a comedy only for Jen Jones?
Speaker 3:No, there's always some venture in there. Doug, my co-host is, who's pretty famous actually.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so where was the transition? Well, can we get right back to the beginning? Give us a little bit of a background of how you got into the industry.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sure, I was one of those unique children who just always knew what they wanted to do and that I knew I wanted to be in this industry in some way. I thought maybe a property developer or something like that which is still in, maybe like a 10-year plan, but I would sketch up these four plans of my tree hats and elevations of them as a kid and try and get my brother to go out and build them for me. Somehow. I never actually ended up with a tree hat, but there was probably some school development in there and on the flip side my parent bought rental properties and we had a lot of work here and spent doing these working. Visas, kid, to kind of help them tidy them up, to set up, were put in, and so there was definitely a lot of exposure to the sector. When I was younger I kind of thought that I would go down the architecture path, but I didn't get into architecture school there's only a limited number of places in New Zealand and I just did not make the catch. But when I was in my final year of high school I did this thing called Young Enterprise scheme, where you kind of create a business concept and you develop it and I won all these awards and my parents are self-employed and so they really kind of pushed me to do something that would foster that entrepreneurial or sort of more business side of me while still being connected to the industry. So I did a Bachelor of Property, which is kind of it pulls in everything management, valuation, finance, et cetera. And then my first kind of job well, I had part-time jobs through the university, but then my first full-time job was in infrastructure projects, so rail loading, that sort of thing, and then I kind of just took Stepping Stones from there until I found myself as part of a $150 million shopping centre project and then I got the headhunted by the local airport or clinic airport to kind of head up there big international departure lounge project, which was $220 million. So I was the construction manager. I was 25, just I was just 25.
Speaker 3:And then I kind of had this quite interesting confrontational, shall we say, conversation with my boss where he was like look, jen, you're a great PM and you're in this role, but you're 25, and you're not an engineer and you're not an architect and you don't have any of the same qualifications as the rest of the people that you're working with. And I kind of need you to do something that just helps me to be able to push you through in terms of academics. So he wrote me this letter and I managed to get special admission to an engineering master's at Auckland University with a civil engineering school, and I majored in construction management and I did that full-time alongside my full-time job, alongside, actually, my first development, which was just a massive crash and burn process, and that's how I got the idea to eventually start a spist mass. But first I kind of I wanted to develop my skills and a little bit more.
Speaker 3:I had met my husband when working at Auckland Airport and at Gotchall Point. We were really one of us had to leave, which was just too complicated, having us working for the same company.
Speaker 2:And so I had to.
Speaker 3:We won't go into the reasons why. So I made a high-end corporate fit-out main contractor company where I did on-site construction management, sort of end-to-end and more in the interior fit-out space. So just really kind of honing in my skills that I didn't necessarily have from coming from an infrastructure and a base-building background. And then I got to the point where I was on maternity leave and had an opportunity to start a business. I did and then at 11 months I resigned and never looked back really and that was.
Speaker 2:You are now kicking girls.
Speaker 3:Yeah, four years ago.
Speaker 2:No, I think that's absolutely fantastic. I love hearing people's stories. Like everyone, obviously, with social media especially like everyone has this perception and sees what they see at a certain point in time and they don't see all the hours and the stress and what's going on in behind the scenes. So yeah, I'd take my hat off to you. It's really, really awesome that you've been able to achieve all that, but you just mentioned then that you crashed and burned on a project. Like what was that all about?
Speaker 3:Well, no, I physically crashed and burned and so I was running this $220 million project at Auckland Airport and I was doing night shifts because we had this part of the project where we needed to lift these 32-ton trusses through airspace up over onto the roof, and so we could only do it between 1 and 4 am because that's when the airport was shut. So I was doing these night shifts. I didn't want it to take forever for me to do my master's, so I was doing four papers a semester to try and churn through my master's in 18 months. And then I also bought this property, subdivided it, moved to house, renovated et cetera, and I just between all of those things, I someone had to go for it and I couldn't manage it. Or even as a quite capable project manager, I just couldn't keep on top of it at all.
Speaker 3:So I physically Christian burned. I actually had quite a a year at the time in hospital. But I also ended up losing money on this particular development and I was in my mid-20s and staring down the barrel of quite a substantial loss on this development just through the sheer fact that I couldn't physically be there and manage the contractor and manage consultants and keep everything running like a tight ship, like I do now. You know it's just like how builders houses and never finished being built. You know, at that age and stage of my life I was a terrible project manager for my own projects. That great for everybody else we see.
Speaker 2:I would like right now.
Speaker 2:Good segue, I guess, because, like I bang on about this all the time, like so many builders themselves don't understand, like they're not allowing enough in their contracts Like supervision, project management, whatever you call it, it is a massive. Like it's such a bigger part of a job than most people expect it to be. And like you get these owner builders and things that think they're going to cut the builders margin out and cut the profit out because they're going to be able to do their day job and call in the afternoons and check on the trades and save all this money and they learn very, very quickly and quite often more times are not the hard way and they're not losing money Like yeah
Speaker 2:look, I'm a huge fan Obviously not because I'm building. I'm doing it. But you need to build a team, find architects, designers, builders, consultants, and pay them the money they're the experts and let them do their job and that is how you will get the best outcome. And like one thing we teach our members in our training business, like we're very, very big on data in our business, we started out quoting an estimating software qualities because of that. So like we track everything. So like we have different margins on jobs.
Speaker 2:So like if it's a, if it's just a basic new home or renovation, we have a certain amount of supervision. If it's a job by a building designer, that's maybe a little bit more features and stuff in it. It has another rate. If it's a job by a building designer, it's got some custom things and they're going to probably possibly manage the project. Then we got some more. And then, obviously, if you get to an architect's job where it's incredibly detailed, there's lots of custom materials and orders and things that have to be sort of inside, they're managing the project Then our rate goes up in more because every different job has a different amount of supervision.
Speaker 2:And unless you've sort of like it's quite mind blowing when you first start tracking the hours and like I'm not sure if you've heard me bang on about like we have this process now called the PAC process, paid as a consultant. So we get involved, ideally from before the clients even met a designer and architect, and we create a team and we, we all go to design meetings, we all sit and sit around a table, we all take notes, we do meeting minutes from everything. And not the fee we charge for that by no means covers our time, but it gets everybody involved. And from doing that process now, for from its initial concept seven, eight years ago to now, it's obviously evolved a lot.
Speaker 2:But, I spend more time in that preliminary stage now prior to signing a contract, than I do Once the job starts. My wife runs the admin side, my supervisor runs the site and things just flow.
Speaker 3:But there is so much organization in that first one, like that, planning phase is absolutely critical and some of my most productive meetings are ones where I've got an architect, a builder and a structural engineer in one room. Like you know, you can create beautiful solutions to come to home when you actually put all those brains in one space. And I, for me, usually I'm the first person that a client comes to. Sometimes I'm introduced by other parties, but normally clients know who I am as they come to me first, and then I've got my team of kind of preferred architects and consultants and builders and I and I match them to to the client and then I run essentially an NECI and early contractor involvement process.
Speaker 3:And then, when it comes to pricing the construction, we do progressive pricing. But when it comes to locking down the contract some for clients you know you're talking about how much management time do you need? So so my scale for that and and how I help my builders to set the PNGs is how working is the client? Because if they're not too bad, then you can lie that, that PNG, but if they're really, really punishing human beings, then you want to sail that PNG up Dimensions that you can cover your time.
Speaker 3:Because, they're gonna be fucking cool, and you and every time like I. There's this area close to where I live called here in.
Speaker 3:May and it's a very premium era. You know you don't really get much for for less than three or four million dollars and, unfortunately, well, I should probably shouldn't say this, but we're all on. My clients come from I called in the house wise and they and they are generally. They have a lot of free time, they like their athleisure wear and they like to treat me as their PA. Sorry, the PNG percentage for them is quite a lot higher than some of my other, more conservative and understanding.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, I'm hearing you're different and different clients and again, so do you like? One thing I'm really big on now, like you, and the reason I believe in our preliminary concert or process so much is it gives you opportunity to build a relationship and get to know the client before we go signing a building contract. And look, we've definitely had clients that match what you just spoke about. That are just, they don't take our advice.
Speaker 2:They think they know everything and we've definitely had a few Processes that we've had to say look, we're really sorry, but we can't continue to work with you like if it's.
Speaker 3:I, I fire clients. I don't do egos, I don't do arrogant, it's just that that, that punishing client scale. To be honest, I don't really even have to put it into play that often, because I've now been in business long enough which I'm sure you have as well that you can see those reflex quite early on. And if you start that process early enough on with a, with a client, even as a builder, then you see it before you get to construct you, that it's quite often better off Just handing that out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're definitely in a point now we're even from the initial inquiry if you can sort of pick up on a few little things that they say or want, and I think it's so empowering, yeah, good as it. When you, I guess, have a good enough business, good enough reputation, you believe in what you deliver, you believe in what you do, that you say, oh yeah, no, sorry, you're not the client for us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and also just to being a privileged enough position to be able to To have the ability to choose. Do you know what I mean? Like you've got enough business that you can turn clients away, whereas when you're quite new in business you kind of take on every Opportunity that comes because you're trying to build up that revenue source and that Ford workload. But but there eventually does come a time where you need to be a little bit more selective, and how amazing to be in a position when you can be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think. I think it's an absolute Game changer. Like people and I look on our mom I'm not an airy fairy type person, but I do all we were type person but I do believe now that the client, every for every client that you say no to it opens a door for another brilliant one.
Speaker 3:Just making space to someone.
Speaker 2:Yeah and so many. And look, I was. I was caught in that situation for years where I, you think you have to take on all the, every single job that crosses your desk Because, oh, you need the cash, so you need to keep your team busy. In reality, you don't every everyone that you say no, you will. I'll just follow my guts now, my guts, no and questions are very intelligent thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we just got learned to use it. Look, I think it's absolutely fantastic and what you're doing, I love that you bring the comedy to it and I love that you like you've been in the trenches, like you've had the professional, you've got all the experience, and Like I find that just awesome that you've you're able to put the comedy to it Even though you've actually been in the trenches. You've you've got that really experienced background, you've done all your training and you've got all these acknowledgements, and Yet you can still sit in front of a camera and make fun of it.
Speaker 3:So why, though? Right, because I've got that experience and I and. I say the system sees, and I I've experienced them and that's why I'm able to create, you know the storyline that I can put into a renovation health line, or or whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and no one.
Speaker 3:No, like the haters, can't give you shit, because it's not like you're sitting here telling I could yeah, try, I remember on one of the ones that we it's probably the one that you first saw which we fire on it, it's over a million views worldwide and and there was, there were quite a few people kind of commenting on it, going you know Whatever, and the thing is that like half the fucking industry would come down every single hate. Oh, I didn't even need to step in because everybody else would be like you know, we're kind of Stephen, be like no, she's a hundred percent right, like that. We're trying to pick an argument or shit all over what I was doing. I just had no, there's, yeah, swarms of people backing me and and even if I did come me, you know I'd get like a thousand likes and then I'd never get a reply from this person. I just kind of drift off into the background. So, no, I just it's really.
Speaker 2:I think it's fantastic and, look to be honest, I've shared a couple of your videos and they're I've shared them because they're things that I Haven't had the balls to say myself.
Speaker 3:I'm just a good idea. Take the feed back, actually and I think that's really cool, because the other thing as well, I guess, is that I'm I'm kind of I don't know how you've put it I've got really nothing to lose, because my job is to be the middleman between the client and the builder or the architect or whatever, and and balance that relationship and make sure that everybody's getting the right thing out of it. It's really hard for you to show over a client, but but but I can kind of say shit for you and you can share it and people can learn from it without it really having any kind of Replication. So maybe I'm not the tradie or I'm not the architect, and because I because I literally see every part of that process as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so what's your goals with? With everything you're doing, like, what's your goal? Do you have a mission that you're?
Speaker 1:like you're hoping to improve the industry, having to help more like it's that yeah, I
Speaker 3:am For. For quite a long time I've been a really, really passionate about sustainability, particularly in the construction set D. You know, globally we contribute to about one third of the world's waste and about 40% of the world's carbon and carbon dioxide emissions, so there is a huge opportunity for us to actually improve I the world sustainability just through the construction sector alone, and I really want to be able to use my profile to improve and to help people make more informed decisions. And I think a big part of, or a big issue with, even just talking about sustainability or being environmental or whatever to home on, is that they kind of associate it with fringe living or compromise, like they have to live off grid or they have to.
Speaker 3:I don't know if I can collect rainwater or something, but there's actually so many other ways that you can be sustainable and in construction and it's not even just the construction process, it's like about what are we creating in the home, what's the longevity and the maintenance cost at the home, and so for me like to be able to build up this profile as an expert voice in my field, even if it is through comedy one of the things that I find quite a problem just to then be able to leverage that following to create noise about this problem and how we can create solutions for it and get in front of those people that are following for other reasons. So it's definitely about creating a little bit of balance from the type of content that I push out. So there's the funny stuff to kind of keep people engaged, but then they also do see the rest of the content as well and they do take from that too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, on the same page it's. I believe all professionals in our industry have a massive role to play, like in the designs that get designed, the materials that get selected, and I definitely have a big advocate for making builders take responsibility, like I think builders obviously, like we, tend to be the ones that are on the site actually doing the ordering and installing the materials. Like we need to start stepping up and saying no, we won't use that, or here's another solution, or stuff like that, the but something I've been sort of bang on a bit about lately, like and look, I've definitely changed my mindset and I put my hand up that I was. I was one of those builders in the past where clients would come to you and they would want to be more sustainable. The first thing that would come out of my mouth is it's going to cost you more.
Speaker 2:And quite often it would cost more because I was going about the wrong way, like I spend thousands of dollars now doing courses and learning more and traveling around and learning more about products and things.
Speaker 2:But my big thing now is if a client says to me they want something and these days a lot of the time it is sustained, like they want to build a more sustainable home it's really my job to educate them on all the options they have, tell them what these things possibly will cost and then they can tell me what they see value in.
Speaker 2:And we're finding we're just getting like the jobs we have come up coming over the next couple of years are all those types of clients and we generally find when we do it that way with clients and we educate them on the outcomes, the options, the possibilities, the cost of those options, and the client tells us what they see value in. Nine times out of ten, the client, the design journey changes from that original inquiry through to the build because they get more educated and they can make more informed decisions and they end up with a far, far better product and rather than getting the $80,000 kitchen, they cut that back to $20,000 or $30,000 and they all choose to buy more sustainable products or change the design a little bit or turn the orientation or put big eaves on or get better quality windows, whatever it may be. But so many clients don't get those opportunities because builders are just like oh no, it's going to cost too much, you can't have that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was the only thing that actually the only consideration shouldn't be the upfront cost, it should also be the implication that cost across the lifetime of the home. Like, yes, you know, I mean in New Zealand double glazed windows on a new builder are a compliant requirement anyway. But like, say, hypothetically, you're renovating your home and you're making decision between keeping your existence a single glazed windows or replacing it with double, and double you're probably for a house that you're starting at kind of 70,000 and that's probably PVC. But the thing is that over a period of time that makes your home so much more energy efficient that you're powerful every month and everything else. You know there's a flow on effect to that decision and if you're going to be at the house for 10 plus years.
Speaker 3:You kind of can't really go wrong, and this is something that this decision making is something that I get really frustrated about, particularly with things like tapware. You know there are some high volume, very cost effective tapware brands. I'm not going to name names, but there is an Australian based one that they obviously have a great marketing budget because they've done really really well on social media. The problem is that I have had clients bite me on putting this tap room to their home and then two years later they're replacing it and that's not sustainable.
Speaker 3:Like you're better off, you know you're better off investing in really high quality tapware at the beginning, because it is something that you interact with every single fucking day. Like how is it not going to have wear and tear? If you know like it needs to be a high quality product, that's an area to invest in, and you should get 15 years out of tapware, not two, and so that's that's got a sustainability impact as well, because otherwise in two years you're replacing $10,000 worth of tapware and you're paying for the plumber and everything else and also that old tap with that broker is going into landfill. So it's kind of not just about the capex.
Speaker 2:It's also about thinking about the longevity of the product and choosing things that are going to stand the test of time 100% and look, that's something I've only really, I guess, educated myself on more in the last couple of years and giving clients those options like 100%. It's not always about the cost, and the example I've sort of been using now is like I can still drive past houses that my great great grandfather built 150 years ago and, yes, they might not be the most energy efficient houses, but they were built well, great old hardwood they like to be with Queensland is big overhangs, like all those types of things. So one thing that really frustrates me now I'm not sure if it's the same New Zealand, but like a lot of the volume builders over here in Australia, like the house are only designed for like 25 to 30 year lifespan.
Speaker 2:And they put some solar panels and a water tank on them, sell them as a sustainable house and like how the hell is a house that we'll get put in the ground in 30 years time sustainable? Like why we should be building homes that last 100 years. Like it's not that.
Speaker 3:I applied in a much more simple context, I apply the same philosophy of furniture Like I would much rather go and buy a solid timber piece, like you know, a side table or a set of drawers or something like that, and stand it back and rate, finish it and go and buy a kit C, M, D, F or particle board piece of shit, basically Put it together probably gonna start to swell and look really rubbish and probably less than a year, to be honest.
Speaker 3:But a solid piece of timber furniture that's already survived for 50 years is easily gonna survive for another 50 years and quite often you can pack them up secondhand for much less than you can buy a kit that piece of furniture and you're gonna get a lot more out of it.
Speaker 3:Not too much just like VOCs, you know, like the chemical glows and things that they use in these products. And it's the exact same philosophy as, like you say, a well-built solid timber horn versus these volume builders, and I've got a whole heap of things to say about them. I mean, actually, maybe you should have done that.
Speaker 2:Oh, this conversation could go on for days. But look, I think like it really excites me talking to professionals like yourself that are putting time and energy into educating themselves and learning more about things, because I take that sort of stuff. I never used to, but I take it really seriously now. I believe it's my job. If a client comes to me, I need to be able to help them out, and if they give me suggestions or ask me questions.
Speaker 2:I need to have the knowledge, to be able to help educate them so that they can make an informed decision Totally, and I think so many people in our industry just oh, I'm just a builder, these are the plans, that's just what I build, or, like on the architect, the client's asked for this. That's just what I'm going to do.
Speaker 3:No, it starts with us. We have a responsibility to move the industry forward, and so, as the expert, it's actually our job to ask the right questions and provide the information to enable our clients you know, the home owners to make the best decisions possible. And so if you're not, if you've got too much of an ego to kind of upskill yourself and make yourself available to that for clients, then as far as I'm concerned, you're not going to survive in the industry 100%.
Speaker 2:You're going to get left behind very, very quickly Because it looks social media, the internet, like clients are educating themselves now. So you're going to look like a bit of a dick if a client's coming to you as an expert and you can't help them out with the questions they're asking. So we've all got to? I think we've got to. We all have a massive responsibility to yeah, as you said at the beginning reduce waste, reduce our footprint, all those types of things. But, jen, I could definitely talk all day to you, but we'll start to wrap it up, but before we go, I'd really love like, what advice have you got for young females that think about getting into the industry or are in the industry and having a bad time?
Speaker 3:Having a bad time. Yeah, I think and this comes from personal experience entering a male dominated industry as a female, you know, in your early 20s or late teens it can be quite hard because you feel like you have to prove yourself. But actually sometimes like, rather than having an ego and like talking back to people or, you know, having these arguments over why you're capable, I kind of just go, yeah, just say nothing, don't engage. You know and actually show people that you're capable because you're in a lot more respect, a lot more quickly. If you illustrate that through action rather than just fighting with people, because that's not conducive to a good working environment, you're just in a five or flight mode all the time and it's just. I don't know. I think you kind of just.
Speaker 3:I think early in my career I probably quite a lot of ego because I felt like I had a lot to prove and I had to check on my shoulder and it probably didn't serve me in some ways. I've led a lot of that goal recently. I'm a lot more aware of it now and I've discovered that just not engaging with those people, just kind of going yep and just letting it slide away, and then proving my value and my capabilities through action is a lot more valuable, and if you can, if you can do that, then you've got a long way. To be fair, it's not even just for female.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that's fair, I mean, but it's been an absolute honor to have you on here and I definitely encourage everyone to check out your videos, not just your funny ones, all your content, because it's all good, but look, I think it's. I think it's really great that you'll you'll bring a sense of humor to the industry, because a lot of the time.
Speaker 2:Our industry is just so old-fashioned and broken and just people whinging about shit. So the fact that you've made it funny, I think, is really, really cool. So, yeah, thanks very much for taking your time out and jumping on board today.
Speaker 3:Oh, you're most welcome. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2:Are you ready to build smarter, live better and enjoy life? Then head on to livelightbuildcom forward.
Speaker 3:Slash elevate to get started.
Speaker 2:Everything discussed during the level up podcast with me, dwayne Pierce, is based solely on my own personal experiences and those experiences of my guests. The information, opinions and recommendations presented in this podcast are for general information only, and any reliance on the information provided in this podcast is done at your own risk. We recommend that you attain your own professional advice in respect to the topics discussed during this podcast.