Level Up with Duayne Pearce
Is Working With Your Partner All Its Cracked Up To Be?
Have you ever wondered how a couple can hammer out success in the demanding world of construction while keeping their marriage blueprint solid? That's exactly what we get into with the power couple from CRA Construction. Chris and Kim Allen from CRA Constructions join me to share the concrete methods of managing a thriving business without cracking the foundation of their personal lives. Our candid conversation carves out the importance of clear communication, setting independent workspaces and the art of neatly resolving conflicts.
As we don our hard hats, the dialogue shifts to the nuts and bolts of business growth and team empowerment. We talk about the game-changing decision to hire a residential supervisor and how it taught us the value of trusting our team. The discussion bridges over to the gritty aspects of navigating insurance pitfalls and wrangling builder agreements, offering you a scaffolding of strategies to protect your business from the financial whirlwinds of the industry.
The episode unpacks the surprising benefits of ice baths and breathwork, not just for personal growth but also for fostering a resilient team spirit. We share how we tailor company events to everyone's tastes, ensuring each team member feels valued and heard. Tune in as we lay out the tools you'll need to construct a balanced life, both on-site and at home, with the wisdom of our own experiences and those of our esteemed guests.
We're on a mission to elevate the professionalism of the residential construction industry, and help everyone enjoy building and renovating homes.
Easy to use Quoting software for Builders. Produce professional and accurate proposals. Quickly and accurately measure and markup plans in minutes. Win more jobs and track costs. 21 Day Free Trial.
Living PurposedWe want to gather with a purposeful intention to explore the world around us. ...
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
check out more podcasts here...
https://levelupwithduaynepearce.buzzsprout.com
Have you ever wondered how a couple can hammer out success in the demanding world of construction while keeping their marriage blueprint solid? That's exactly what we get into with the power couple from CRA Construction. Chris and Kim Allen from CRA Constructions join me to share the concrete methods of managing a thriving business without cracking the foundation of their personal lives. Our candid conversation carves out the importance of clear communication, setting independent workspaces and the art of neatly resolving conflicts.
As we don our hard hats, the dialogue shifts to the nuts and bolts of business growth and team empowerment. We talk about the game-changing decision to hire a residential supervisor and how it taught us the value of trusting our team. The discussion bridges over to the gritty aspects of navigating insurance pitfalls and wrangling builder agreements, offering you a scaffolding of strategies to protect your business from the financial whirlwinds of the industry.
The episode unpacks the surprising benefits of ice baths and breathwork, not just for personal growth but also for fostering a resilient team spirit. We share how we tailor company events to everyone's tastes, ensuring each team member feels valued and heard. Tune in as we lay out the tools you'll need to construct a balanced life, both on-site and at home, with the wisdom of our own experiences and those of our esteemed guests.
We're on a mission to elevate the professionalism of the residential construction industry, and help everyone enjoy building and renovating homes.
Easy to use Quoting software for Builders. Produce professional and accurate proposals. Quickly and accurately measure and markup plans in minutes. Win more jobs and track costs. 21 Day Free Trial.
Living PurposedWe want to gather with a purposeful intention to explore the world around us. ...
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
check out more podcasts here...
https://levelupwithduaynepearce.buzzsprout.com
Book it in my calendar, mate, because this is how I need to roll these days. Because you did not respect my time.
Speaker 2:I think Camille and Camille have been talking, because that's exactly what Camille says now. Is it in the calendar? Put it in the calendar.
Speaker 3:I don't enjoy this chat. I thought it was going to be all in my favour. I thought I was going to throw your hair under the bus.
Speaker 2:Good day, guys. We are back in the shed for another cracking episode of Level Up this afternoon. I'm really excited this afternoon because this is the first time we've actually had a husband and wife that works together in the building industry besides Camille and I on the podcast. So this afternoon we've got some awesome guests here for you. Camille has been on before, but we've got a husband, chrissie, so they run CRA Construction, a plastering company here in Brisbane. I want to dive straight into it. You guys are here to talk about how husbands and wife work together.
Speaker 1:Hi Dwayne, Thanks for having me back. It's always a privilege.
Speaker 2:You sound nervous, I'm very nervous.
Speaker 1:I don't know what he's going to throw me under the bus for We'll see how we go, hey. Everything.
Speaker 2:Clubs are off. I believe the construction industry would fall over if wives and partners went on strike because, let's face it, most traders and builders have a partner or wife at home or trying to juggle the business side of things as well as their own career. You guys have obviously been very successful at it. You run the business together, Although you do do it in separate offices with the soundproof wall between. We'll get to that later. How do you guys make it work? I feel like this needs to be spoken about, because obviously it's not all roses.
Speaker 1:No, I think you have to 100% be on the same page, starting from the bare bottom. We write our goals together. We say what's our end goal? What do we want to do? How are we going to get there? How are we going to make this happen? It makes us have a reality check. Every time we're struggling or we're fighting, or whatever it might be, we go, all right, we're doing this because we want to get here or do this, or whatever it might be. It brings you back down to earth again and goes okay, it's worth it. Right, but it's not easy.
Speaker 1:It's most definitely something that we have learned to communicate openly with, with everything. The moment that you start getting frustrated with one another, if you build that up and then you bring it into your home life as well, and then it goes into the workplace, it's not just yourself that's having to deal with it, it's your stuff, it's your trades, it's your kids, everything like it. Just it's a snowball effect, right?
Speaker 2:There's definitely a few times where Camilla and I have not switched off and, like we do, you guys have the office at home.
Speaker 1:No, we're out of the office now. We'll tell you about that later, I guess.
Speaker 2:But yeah, like being able to leave it at work so that when you get home, you're the dad, you're the mum and the family does it. Seeing without.
Speaker 3:Do you really think that happens? Ask him the hard questions here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like well, how do you deal with those situations?
Speaker 3:No, we definitely bring it home every now and then.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's just. I like your honesty mate.
Speaker 3:I feel we have it out when we need to have it out, and as soon as we've had it out, it's done, done yeah, we move on. It's when you've had a real stressful month and you don't talk about it and don't battle it out with whoever's right or wrong. There's always someone who's right and someone who's wrong.
Speaker 1:If you don't have that argument, I reckon that's when we come unstuck, just learning to choose your battles, like you can either dig your heels in the ground because you're so stubborn, or you can go. I am actually bloody wrong. Let's just shut up and get on with it, right? Like, yeah, if you want to be stubborn, that's fine, but it's not going to get you anywhere. It's. You know, we and I am a stubborn Dutch woman, so I'm happy to you know, admit this, but it's something that I've had to learn in myself to choose my battles, yeah it's a true one, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Because I know Camille and I have got a lot better in business the more work we have done on ourselves, Absolutely and I don't even just me being able to take responsibility for things now and not, like I'm sure, you two are no different. I think it doesn't matter whether it's a marriage, a partnership, a business partnership, like whatever. You've got to be able to understand that the other person sees things differently, has a different understanding of a certain situation, whatever, and works through it. And I agree with what you said, Chris, Like it's super important that you have smaller battles along the way rather than just letting everything grow.
Speaker 3:If it builds up, that's when you're.
Speaker 1:You're done.
Speaker 3:You're in big trouble.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, very unhappy.
Speaker 2:And then you hit the dog. Yes, yeah, scream your much of curse.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now we're trying not to scream too much. I was saying to one of our staff today that she's working from home and she said oh you know, here's my dog at home on the couch snoring next to me. He's very disruptive. I'm like it's probably better than listening to Chris and I bicker all day. Like it's, you know, enjoy the peace while you got it. Yeah, like we don't bicker, but certainly like there's some stomps down the stairs and there's some oh, for fuck's sake, whatever it might be like it's very, yeah, we we got very specific roles, like yeah.
Speaker 3:I don'twhen I go against her role, which is growing the business and then all the bookkeeping and all the growth and everything else, the accounting, if I second guess that that's. You're a girl. I can have my two cents and opinion and but that's her overall picture, where she's got the big picture of it and then similar onsite and dealing with the guys Like we've separated it and then, once we start, very very clear roles.
Speaker 2:So you run the sites, run the quoting and the boys.
Speaker 3:I've sort of stepped away from being onsite as much, which I think I'm going to go back to once I get help with quoting.
Speaker 1:We've defined our roles as a business has grown. So we now have a residential supervisor. So he deals with all the nitty-gritty and running the jobs and he's now scheduling the jobs, which we were previously and only since I was here last, you know. So we now have a commercial supervisor. He's running the commercial sites and we purely trust these guys, solely trust these guys. Tothey know what they're doing and we've had to learn to go. We trust you, do you and do it well. We step in when we need to. Yeah, we think that someone's having disagreements or someone's not showing up to site, or you know if we have to step in on a HR level or on just a generalas the owner of the business. I expect this from you. That's when we step in, but we're very, very much so had to create thesewell, give everyone their job roles and trust them and this is the process.
Speaker 3:Only from hiring those new guys. That has made me and Kim come good again. We were in the trenches for like three years, I reckon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, trying to stay up.
Speaker 2:But it. I think this is important to talk about because so many people I definitely believe everyone looks at our industry, whether it's a builder or a trade, and sees what they do on site and they have no idea what has to happen behind the scenes, whether it's a full build or all trades, like yourselves. There is a fuckload of ordering, quoting takeoffs, accounting, like just running the business especiallywhat have you guys got now? 16, 18, 20 guys 22,?
Speaker 1:I think, yeah. So we're constantly growing and evolving and we learn so much and we're the first to admit that we're not know-it-alls. We are openly learning every day from everything. So it's one of those that we adjust our business a lot to suit. So you know my job role. Itoday I met with our accountant, our marketing team, our solicitor, ourfrom everyone else's Like. These are our key people and this is my job role to make these decisions and to delegate and tothis is what needs to happen. So it's something that I make a decision on something and come up with an idea, and then I go to Chris and say, hey, look, this is what I want to do, and he'll literally just go yep, I walk away and implement it. So on many, many, many different levels and it's the same as hey, such and such isthis is what's happening on site. If it's on a HR level or something where I need to go and support that team member, then that's my job and I step in and I help that staff member.
Speaker 2:It's really important defining roles. Like one of the first thingswell during thewe do an onboarding call with the builders when they come to live life build and like one of the things I talk through with them is like tracking everything they're doing.
Speaker 2:And like quite often it's ours and my wife team, so likeand I say do it for three months. So you need to track everything you're doing and like that could be even every phone call you're doing and that'speople think it's only a phone call. But whatis it a phone call for HR? Is it a phone call for meeting a new designer architect? Is it a delivery? Like even phone calls go into certain roles.
Speaker 3:It's underrated that back end of the business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like if you don't know what your role is in a business, it's very hard to not piss people off. Absolutely. Because you're bothlike, both sides are trying to do a bit of each other's work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's where we were. What six, nine months ago? So we hired our residential supervisor and he literally said to us guys, there's too many chiefs Like there's too many people trying to do the same job.
Speaker 3:Have too many. Stop fucking calling the boys. Let me do my job and you guys fucking get back on the computer and it's. That's what he said.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like it'swe take that on board and we have Like, but you're never going to know until you go through what not to do or be told or educated on it. Like it's something that you just have to go and, especially learn to trust. Like we were very much so micro-managing because we had done that role for so long that we didn't know how to offload that component. And we've had to be. You know, he really pulled us on our shit, and good on him. Yeah. And he's role is his defined role.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and has that helped you guys know more about your roles at you playing the business?
Speaker 1:Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:That's yeah, given us time to actually concentrate on the business. Yeah, like half Kim's role three years ago. If you told me all the shit she was doing, I'd be like what the fuck are we doing that for? Hey Joe, and like keeping up to standards and like all the back end stuff. We're at a top. I understand now why we're.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That's where growing. I'm like, holy crap, we need all that shit.
Speaker 1:But, like literally a week ago, we're at a talk, someone talking about HR and everything she rattled off, bar maybe 1% of it we have implemented right and I take that 1% and I'll implement that in my business. But him, like two years ago, he's at attitude and this is what, as a team like I, have to educate him on why we need this, and then I have to stand my ground and then he finally comes to him and goes yeah, okay, I accept that.
Speaker 3:This is where the husband and wife team, I think, works. Because, like most guys are running it themselves and don't exactly ask or give the wife the option of having that 100% like. This is my role. This is what you should do.
Speaker 2:Well, you're a plaster, you're a brickie, you're a carpenter, like you're not. Like. When you start your trade, no one tells you all the business shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's horrendous.
Speaker 2:You think your job is on site throwing sheets and setting and sanding and like, yeah, it's just it. It absolutely amazes me knowing what I know now, how much and I think there's so many people in our industry that are on site doing the site works that just like I know there's realising our team that just think Camille and Sharon and me just sit in the office twilling our thumbs.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's all of our team.
Speaker 3:They have no idea Sipping on beers and cigarettes.
Speaker 1:We've got a warehouse now and they come up the top of the stairs and they see us working. You see, like they're oh, they're doing something, they're not just drinking beer, yeah.
Speaker 2:We stay in age with the amount of HR and work based on safety and just all the paperwork that goes with it whether it's electronic or not, like it's still paperwork.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:It's. I'm firmly believe like it's there's more work happens off site than what actually happens on site. But if you added up the hours you spend on a job, I would guarantee you like the hours would be almost identical off site to on site.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the reality is we've lost a few team members this year because they didn't believe that we were busy Like they. They assumed that we were, you know, earning so much money and we're, you know, just living this high life and got all this time on our hands.
Speaker 1:And for lunch every day, breakfast at the coffee shop, and we literally have to say like you don't believe us, go see for yourself and then, when you are not happy, come, come back and let's talk. But most people won't believe until they experience it and then go through these trenches and they either come out the other end and educate themselves on it or they sink. So it's yeah, be a sole trader. They say it's yeah, fun.
Speaker 2:Oh look, it definitely is. I think you guys are on the right track. You're obviously doing well to employing 20 odd people, so that's no small feat it's not easy, I'd like to do it. I've ever imagined you'd be employing 20 people when you're starting your apprenticeship or getting into the trade.
Speaker 3:No, always wanted to get off the toes. When I started sanding as a placer that's financial I'm like I gotta get rid of this shit. Yeah. But that was about as far as it went. Just get off the toes and figure something out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then he's met me and I'm like, right, we're going to buy all these houses and we're going to make all this money, and I don't know how we're going to do it. And we're like, oh okay, let's try and figure that one out.
Speaker 3:Not happening yet.
Speaker 2:No well, it's good you mentioned before we started recording. Kim, you guys see a coach? Yeah, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:So we have many facets. We have a business mentor and she is like half mentor business mentor, half marriage counsellor.
Speaker 3:No, she pretty much tells Kim when she's wrong, which is what I need. She's on my side, which is good.
Speaker 1:But she also educates Chris in what I'm trying to get across. And then we go to Courageo I don't know if you've heard it, but it's essentially. They bring a whole heap of business owners together and we sit in a boardroom of 10 to 12 different other business owners and we go through each other's profit and loss and balance sheets and talk about our wins, our challenges, our whatever it might be, and we just get another perspective from other business owners and that as a we've just even budgeting and you're always on about your numbers. And this is where we've had to really we've learned to nitty gritty get into it.
Speaker 3:We yeah, courageo is good. We'll find over a budget for like three years making one. It's like no, we don't need to put that in.
Speaker 2:Like work budget or everything budget or yeah everything.
Speaker 3:Yeah turnover everything and what you're making, what you're To grow, what your projection's got to be. And then this place was like no fucking show us the budget in two weeks, or it was pretty much get out. It's like everyone's got to do it. Show it in front of everyone we're like fuck. And then you show them the budget You're like oh we're not doing it as well as we thought we need to figure something out, yeah.
Speaker 2:No one, most businesses aren't. It's generally a bit of a rude shock when you Well, some people, most people take as a shock. A lot of people think it like they just see it as instantly like holy fuck. That's why I've got no cash flow. Absolutely, and it's like kick up the ass, right, We've got to sort this shit out.
Speaker 1:Even recently, just putting aside all of our money for stuff or their accrued leave, like I've never done that. I've just not winged it, but I've always just had savings, yeah. And now I've got multiple accounts for multiple reasons Profit first. Yeah absolutely so. Coming into Christmas, my stress that my staff will be paid. There's no stress there. Like it's, I'm good as long as more builders pay us on time, please. It's something that, yeah, I know that, as long as they're paid, that's what all I care about. I'll deal with the rest later.
Speaker 2:So it's.
Speaker 2:I'm just gonna throw something out there because it sounds like what you've been working through or maybe I might teach you something, but I think I'll definitely teach the listeners a lot.
Speaker 2:But when you're paying someone, so this is and this is the other thing that guys on site just don't understand. But if you're paying someone on on wages or salary or whatever like on a on a proper setup where they get holiday, sick days, all those types of things, so if you well the example enough, top of my head. So if you got someone that you're paying roughly around $45 an hour on site, by the time you add in all their holiday pay and sick day and leave loading and those types of things, everything that they have to get. So you add up that basically there's eight weeks a year that they could possibly not work for that you have to pay for. So and I'm sure this will be a massive eye opener for a lot of people but if you think that they're costing you 45 an hour by the time you add on the cost for that eight weeks, the super, the work, cover all those other things. You actually need to be charging them out at a minimum of $76 an hour.
Speaker 1:Even our cars. We account for our cars, our fuel, the whole cost of the car. We work it right back absolutely.
Speaker 2:It's very hard to educate your workers that well, I don't think that they want to be educated.
Speaker 2:No they don't. They just, like I, know for a fact. Like if you sell, if there's a guy on site that you're paying 45 bucks an hour and he hears or thinks that you're, so straight away if I'm charged, if I'm, if I've got someone in my team that I'm paying $45 an hour on a salary I have to. So obviously if they're costing me $76 an hour, I need to be charging them out at at least $95 an hour, because I've still got to make the money to be able to pay the cost to have them. So they hear that you're charging them out at $95 an hour they crack the shit and expect more money, but they don't understand it.
Speaker 2:It's costing me as a business an extra and that's on 45 an hour. Obviously it gets higher, but it's costing physically costing me an extra $30 an hour to have them and so many builders and tradies will be listening to this and hopefully it's a light bulb moment because I know there's heaps of trades out there that are paying guys $55 an hour and charging them out at $75 an hour. They're actually losing money For every hour that person works. They think they're picking up $25 an hour.
Speaker 1:They're actually losing, probably $25 an hour and we honestly, we've gone through. We've always had a gist of that, but it wasn't until we worked it out, maybe a year or two ago. But we genuinely we lost a lot of money and even hourly rate. We've had to up our hourly rate and it's not very often. We'll do time and materials, but certainly there's many builders out there that that's how they want to work and we accept that. But we're not willing to work for free or lose money to be on your site.
Speaker 2:But a lot of builders don't understand that either. You as a subbie will be telling builders that, hey, I've got to charge my guys at $95 or whatever it is an hour and they will be thinking oh, you're only paying them $45, and they have no understanding either.
Speaker 3:They're still a corrupt layer of builders trades, everyone just paying straight ABM. That's why it's they're like ah, we just need to charge $70 an hour because this guy's charging.
Speaker 1:Yeah, our issue is our competition. Most sole traders, or they, they are on ABM. Someone's on ABM along the line?
Speaker 3:Like for 10 years you're talking and like there's no reason that guy can't turn around in claims, we even had an insurance builder turn around to us a big builder and demanded invoices.
Speaker 1:And it was one job we absolutely bent over backwards for. We slotted them in and we just made it work for them and then, when they got the bill, they reneged on everything and went what I'm like? I'm sorry, but this is, these are our costs and and we've had to just purely to. You know, you can keep going three, four months down the track and not get paid, or you can, like we've. We've just like we've been put in a position where we have, we've essentially gone on a job. We've lost money now and we, we just have to move on and we won't ever work for that builder again.
Speaker 2:So to do, having a like to do, having agreed hourly rate with them, we've done four jobs from before.
Speaker 1:More than that, yeah.
Speaker 3:He's just, yeah, his supervisor. The insurance game changed quickly and they had to prove they went back to the old rates. You know how it all went? Gangbuster and like, yeah, we could have gone on them legally and all that shit, because we'd done four jobs for the same rate like previously.
Speaker 2:But Was it all? Was it on like? Did you have it on paper? What the agreed rates?
Speaker 1:were yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This builder we had an agreement with yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was just yeah. Are we going to go three months without money, or? Are we going to?
Speaker 1:negotiate now yeah, we would have gone, continued on for six, nine months if we went, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, that's the other really shit part of our industry it is. There's so many builders and operators out there that just know that trades get in situations where they need the cash flow and they know that they can screw them over because eventually they're going to give in and want some money rather than no money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the reality is you don't know until you work for them, like there might be. There's not even word of mouth on the street. You know, like it's one. Yeah, so we literally have to go through work for a builder and then, two months down the track or whatever it might be, I'm saying, hey guys, I still haven't been paid. And then I realized, okay, these aren't who they say they are.
Speaker 1:So it's a reality and it's not to down. Well, it's not to, you know, put a bad word on our industry. It's more so that this is our reality.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. That's why we're here, that's why we're doing this and talking about shit, because we want to, we want to level it all up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:It's hard on everybody yeah.
Speaker 3:One of our worst ones would have been we, a builder, almost got catfish, like you know, that sushi train guy like this random worker, stole his ABN, everything He'd done this, his license, everything, QVCC license. And this is where the husband and wife team comes in and I'm like, yeah, yeah, we can do this job. Fuck, he sounds like a great bloke and yeah, he's.
Speaker 1:I've gone. Have we got an agreement? Have we got? Have we done a history search on them? Have we done a XYZ and Chris like where sweet? And for now please continue the conversation yeah.
Speaker 3:Anyway, did the job. And then I get a call. I'm like what the fuck? We haven't been paid. One of my guys still at the key, he went to site. And then I get a call from someone I've never even heard of. What the fuck are you guys doing on site? Who are you? I'm like, who are you Like? Are you the builder, Can we get paid? And he's like no, I'm the client. This guy has stolen money, run away to New Zealand and used another builder's ABN and, yeah, he's stuffed everyone.
Speaker 1:So that that was my lesson about listening to Kim, about Meanwhile, we've paid our suppliers, we've paid our staff, we've paid our, and we're now fighting them. So to get, try and even attempt to get our money back, we have to go to the guy that's overseas the client, the builder the guys.
Speaker 3:Abn got stolen. He's got nothing to do with it.
Speaker 1:And just bring them into one big court case in a hope that someone will pay our bill.
Speaker 2:But this is because you didn't get anything in writing, or doing licensing.
Speaker 1:Correct yeah.
Speaker 3:Which I've learnt that lesson yeah. Yeah, and that's why we got a wall between us now.
Speaker 2:Well, that's look. That's a huge lesson for anyone that's listening. And look I'm. I'm not perfect. I definitely did that back in the day as well. You, you think that you can trust people and do what you do, but it's the.
Speaker 1:Aussie way. It's a handshake agreement. It's it's how it's a natural thing. You believe someone's word, but the reality is that it's unfortunately not everyone does the right thing.
Speaker 2:So what's? What's your checks? What do you like? Anybody that's taken on work like a subbie to a builder? What's your checks? What are you doing?
Speaker 1:Yes, so we'll do a QBCC search on them and we'll go through their history. If they have any judgments, any underpaid, so any suspended accounts, obviously canceled accounts, we do a general Google search because that shows up court cases, that shows anything of that sort. And then, yeah, it's sort of, if we're arming and arming we, oh, our builders insurance, I'll add them onto my builders insurance. If they agree to it, then then okay, we're, we're covered. That's a good start.
Speaker 1:If they're not willing to cover them, then that's obviously a red flag. And our builders insurer can also. Insurance can also do a search on them, a further search. So if others have put in a claim against them, then that's obviously a red flag as well.
Speaker 2:So do you take an insurance on builders not paying you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 3:We've only recently done that. Yeah, because of that would be fucking expensive wouldn't it.
Speaker 1:That is approximately two and a half grand a month. Thank you very much. And that is to get us coverage of about 1.3 mil, which at the moment I think I have 25 builders I've ensured against and that's the contracts, only over 20,000. So it's not in our interest to put in a claim for minimal. We'll obviously seek our own way with that legally.
Speaker 3:It's more so now we're doing commercial. It's like if that builder goes bus with fuck yeah.
Speaker 1:You don't have to say so. Many have to say enough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, go for it, I've told what to do.
Speaker 3:Enough already.
Speaker 2:There's so many parts of our industry that need to be improved. Yeah, but like you said, mate, I know I wouldn't have learnt what I learnt without my wife coming into the business. You're a tradie. You just want to go to work and work with the boys all day and listen to tunes and let him hopefully get paid at the end of the job. But it's reality is. It is not that simple, is it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and where our ethics are insanely high. We've come from a previous business partner who spent all the business money and then wouldn't pay wages or subbies, who we obviously said goodbye to. But we started this business wholeheartedly going. We'll do it right, We'll do it well, we will learn from our mistakes and take control and we just we continue to follow through. If we need to put in personal money, we'll put in personal money. We haven't had to actually yet, which is amazing, but it's something that we will always put them first because, they need to pay for their families.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm banned from taking builders phone calls and going we can start a job tomorrow. Oh man, that's how we knit that in the car.
Speaker 1:We literally drop everything and then all of a sudden we've got a truck coming with a delivery and then for a builder we've never heard of or met or spoken to or but they're good blokes on the phone and they're unique yeah.
Speaker 3:No, this is definitely a few arguments have had over this.
Speaker 1:It's what the anyway.
Speaker 3:So that's where we got half our builders to begin with. So just say yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1:I love them, but only if they pay their bills.
Speaker 2:So what's, besides estimating and bringing in dodgy builders, what's your role, my role?
Speaker 3:apart from dodgy builders. Man, it's killing me. I'm doing mostly estimating at the moment and then go to site. Like man. If you go to two sites, quoting three sites, there's four hours of your day gone yeah. And then you come back to the office and write it all up. So it's gone to shit a bit.
Speaker 2:So how do you I'm curious to know how do you, I guess, manage or try to avoid, like we have a process to try and get rid of tire kickers, like clients wasting our time? How can you like avoid builders? When you're wasting your time.
Speaker 3:I've gone the opposite way. Like we've got. I've got rates there. Everything Like a whole house would only take. But, it's all time If you've got builders.
Speaker 2:if you've got 30 builders all just constantly ringing you Like, do you only price work for regular builders or are you?
Speaker 3:always no, because we're always trying to grow. And then there's builders that don't we don't want to work for because they haven't. They take so long to pay, so we're like we're gonna have to keep getting new builders to sift out. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So we're constantly. We've had a big change recently where we've, six months ago, we took on our, we went, we reintroduced ourselves back to commercial. We had a four year break from it. This was the previous business that we had and we very much so said. Starting CRA, we wanted a low risk, which is residential in our minds, and now we've re-entered with commercial. So and it's something that re-entering commercial once you have your team there, you obviously want to keep them going. So we this is where Chris has come into it in terms of quoting a hell of a lot more. He's re, he's quoting commercial projects and I need help in there, so we've.
Speaker 3:The reason we grew so fast was because no other plus there wasn't many plasters by like A1s and EANSs that price off plan at tender time when they know it's like a waste of time, the builders trying to win the job but I hasn't won it. So most classes are like, ah, fuck that, we don't need that. But we've always priced everything Is where like. Even now, builders like, ah, I'm only tendering, but we're like no, who cares?
Speaker 1:I can smash a quote out and yeah, most times, by the time it comes to them being on site, and then they have us quote, they're like holy crap, that is so far over our budget. And we're like, well, this is why you have us quote at tender time. So we may not win that job, but we will certainly start quoting for them. And then, when it comes to six months or a year down the track, when they're ready to start on site, we win the project.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think we've got to keep doing it. I'd love the pack process for plasters.
Speaker 2:That would be lovely. Well, we should be looking for pack builders Like we like. If a builder and look, I think commercial builders should be doing as well, Like there's, it's costing all of our clients too much money, Like I won't know names, but like one of our largest suppliers spends over $4 million a year estimating, and they only win 18 to 25% of the jobs they've for us. So we're all paying for that $4 million.
Speaker 1:We're looking to hire an estimator because he's so overwhelmed, so that'll be. They won't be full time, but certainly part time.
Speaker 3:I need to get out of the office. Too close to the estimator can go in my room, oh, come on now. And I can run away from Kim. Come on now, go back on site.
Speaker 2:We're here, to solve the industry's problem and get husbands and wife working happily together.
Speaker 1:I'm here for marriage counseling. I thought that's what we're here for.
Speaker 3:I've got the gloves off. I'm ready.
Speaker 2:Like, yeah, having finding builders that actually have processes that get rid of the or attract the right types of clients, like all of our trades love it, cause they know if they get a set of drawings from us there's a 95% chance the job's gonna happen. Cause, yeah, like you think of every builder sending plans to multiple trades, like especially a tendering scenario like you might have. Well, I know scenarios where there's like 14 builders tendering on the one commercial job and then each of those builders is probably sending out to multiple trades All that wasted time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we often get the same job, to quote from different builders. It's just a reality. We just make the same price. Like it is what it is. We're not here to ask.
Speaker 3:We've definitely started pricing jobs for a few builders that go through your pack process and I'm like this is sweet, you can well, you know you're gonna get this work, yeah, good work, and they're actually thinking about the job, which is awesome and I'm so organized and they listen to you.
Speaker 3:Listening to your trades, like we got top, top end builders that are like talk about, we talk about level five and that. And maybe you should approach like, oh no, we don't want to pay for this. Maybe you should approach it with a client before it Like, just suggest there's a price to do this one more Under a skylight. Oh no, we're not gonna do that. I'm like whatever man. And then a year later you're like, ah, we're gonna defect that. I'm like you had your chance. Like you chose.
Speaker 3:Not, you didn't listen to us, but yeah, the guys that have gone through. The pack process is quite good. I'm enjoying it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you gotta that's all part of it. You gotta everyone's gotta work as a team to educate, yeah, everybody. And that's like a lot of builders need educating as well. Like I didn't, I never knew about level five until we started doing bigger homes and more glazing and like reflection off lower roofs and pools and yeah, all those types of things that you got to learn. And yeah, without having good trades that are happy to put in the time and educate you on this sort of stuff, you're always gonna be doing shit the wrong way, yeah, or you're missing out on better options.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. 100% compliment the pack process, like in all the builders that you're trying. They are so organized they are, they schedule ahead of time, they pay their bills on time. Every single one of them like it's phenomenal. Who are they? They know and I'm sure they're listening.
Speaker 2:We've definitely got a lot that have been trained now, but we also have a lot that think they're doing it, that have never come through our course.
Speaker 4:It's an interesting one, I think those are being formally trained.
Speaker 1:I see them on your feet.
Speaker 2:So what other? What other advice have you got for husband and wife or partners working together like?
Speaker 3:our first office or room was a walk-in room with a desk.
Speaker 1:That was so we started the business on our kitchen table. We moved house and we got a small, very small, two meter by two meter office that we both sat side by side to me to buy two me.
Speaker 3:Crazy, yeah, with that's why we changed the house.
Speaker 1:We're like oh, we got an office, yeah, we're so excited with the sliding door so we were like we're gonna work life balance, this is the best. And then, yeah, that became very, very close. So a house came up for sale, three doors up the road, so we bought that, moved in and that had a romper's room, but we still took the same desks and put them side by side and thought it'd be a better situation. And then by the end of it, like he's going Eating his lunch, his click in his pen, his, his you know picking his boogies, and I'm like, are you serious?
Speaker 3:What can I say about you?
Speaker 1:or he talks on the phone, on speaker, and so when he's talking I literally Read the same sentence ten times. So, yeah, we, so it was the best thing ever. So we, yeah, we bought a little warehouse in Jibang and we put two offices. That has soundproof board, it's soundproof insulation, the. Except we moved in and realized so we should have put carpet down because that's the sound still getting. Oh, we've got solid core doors, but yeah anything to block it out?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, block me out in my chewing.
Speaker 2:Stop your snorting, stop.
Speaker 3:It was breathing not so long ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, trying to stop that. Good, so now it's all it's. It's all working out. Now you got separate officers, you're separate offices.
Speaker 1:We have an administrator working with us Now.
Speaker 3:I'll let you out a secret we definitely had a few arguments on the way here. Oh look we she was holding a grudge against me from the weekend that came to work. So it all. Yeah you bring it to work. But, yeah, how you manage it out is what we've started taught like we've started talking more. It's what we never used to do.
Speaker 1:No, I'm very good at holding grudges. Yeah, yes.
Speaker 3:I can hate my guts for a week and it just disappears is how it used to work. Now it's two days and then we talk about it, so yes only two days from seven days is.
Speaker 2:Do you know what pisses Kim up Going on a?
Speaker 3:Weekend vendor twice in a row and well, I'm sick and bed.
Speaker 2:No, they're like work, work wise like what. What do you do at work that pisses?
Speaker 3:Well, I'm hopeless on computers. So yeah, I'm asking her for anything. Can everything God deliver?
Speaker 1:all my emails two days ago, so that's because he transfers them into the archive folder and then it all of a sudden it's my problem.
Speaker 3:He, he is sure there's lots.
Speaker 1:He will learn the bare minimum. So we, we use our plans with for our to measure our quints, our plans, and so he'll learn the bare minimum of what he has to, and then everything else is everyone else's problem. So that's what grinds my gears.
Speaker 2:You need to be using quite ease, man. I built it for tradies so it's easy to use. I can use it, anybody can use it.
Speaker 3:I think this is our next learning new things is not my fault, but you're um, yes. I'm gonna read two week battle.
Speaker 1:I have to download it, subscribe, and then I'll probably have to sit through all the training that you've got, and then I'll be like Chris you have to sit down and learn this.
Speaker 3:What do I have to do this? See, there's the voice that's me it's a.
Speaker 2:It's look, that's exactly me. It's just tradies, I'm getting better, like I, but that's it's the same thing that pisses Camilla, whereas I've learnt now. Like I have to put in the effort, I've got a try, new things, I've got to try and figure things out. But, um, like the few things that piss Camilla off is I Like she's got a massive amount on a plate but like I'll quite often finish a sight man, you'll jump in my truck and get recall and say, hey, can you do this, this and this and Like. So now she starts, she pushes back. She's like I've already got too much to do, like you can do that yourself.
Speaker 2:I love this but I've, and I've had to Sort of put my hand on me go. Yeah, she has got a lot on like I did. I can do this shit myself.
Speaker 1:So he will walk into my office now. He'll be on the phone to someone or he'll just walk in and start talking and I'm like, are you serious? Like, respect my boundaries. I'm knee deep in this thing that I've been going through for an hour. I need to punch it out because I've got another meeting coming in five minutes time. Book it in my calendar, mate, because this is how I need to roll these days, because you did not respect my time.
Speaker 2:I think I'm gonna be talking, because that's exactly what Camilla says now. Is it in the calendar? Put it in the calendar.
Speaker 3:I don't enjoy this chat. I thought it was gonna be all in my favor.
Speaker 1:I thought I was gonna throw your hair under the bus or it's walking in and just starts talking and I'm like, okay, let me stop what I'm doing, to then put all my attention on you, to then have to go back and rehash what I just had my head in 20 minutes ago and then take another 20 minutes.
Speaker 2:Reading very important lunch. It's hilarious. It's exact same things. I do the same things, but it's your turn now. Do you know what pisses Chris off?
Speaker 1:Oh, he's so relaxed and chilled and.
Speaker 2:It's gonna be a two-way street.
Speaker 1:Look he, he definitely bites back. So I, as I said before, I can be a very stubborn Dutch woman and I think I am always right and I Don't always like to admit that I'm wrong, and I very much. So I've had to learn to accept that I may be wrong. Sometimes he struggles. Yeah, anyway, learning care for me. That's why you are work on yourself. It's a no, the other day it's. It's just one of those that I Know what pisses him off. So I manipulate the situation to get my way, but we won't tell him that one. Yeah.
Speaker 2:At the end of the day, it is like being a husband wife in business is challenging. Oh yeah and you've got to. The most important thing is that you can't let the business come between the relationship, and sometimes you just really got to learn how to come up with solutions that Gets rid of that and leaves it at work. Yeah. I think like you guys, I saw you comment on my picture yesterday, so you guys, are you both down there?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no expedition. So we got, um, we got asked what are you doing to challenge yourself? And we were both some, we're both in a really bad state of mind that week and we, um, we Got home that weekend. Oh, we had to cancel our plans because what happened? Did you have COVID?
Speaker 3:No, no, is that Melbourne thing we're meant to go?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, we're meant to go this award ceremony. That turns out we stood us full sweep and won all these awards and we couldn't even bloody go. Yeah, she had covered, yeah.
Speaker 3:I was digging out a whole lot of that for a long time. Yeah, still gets. We had a huge.
Speaker 1:It was very exciting, our first, you know, husband, wife trip away for a long time and anyway Didn't get to go. But so we got asked that week what are you doing to challenge yourself? And then that popped up randomly and I'm like, oh, this, and I'm like oh yeah, and then, and then Chris, Do you know what it is?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm we walking fucking with these in the.
Speaker 1:Yeah that, I think that weekend for his birthday, bought him an ice bath like just a very cheap, just spoke, blow up one and we did our first ice but ice bath that week.
Speaker 3:It was 40. It didn't count, it was 40 degrees. With three bags, oh, I'm pretty sure this is a cold bath we got to cocky and booked it too spontaneously.
Speaker 1:And now, now we're going to be.
Speaker 3:Training next year. So it's.
Speaker 2:Look, that is a. So Joe Hennesse is doing a lot of stuff for them. Live like build business now, and he is incredible human being that You'll get so much out of that weekend. I guess, even with what we're just talking about now, like he does this incredible exercise where he demonstrates so he's got like a green orange and a red zone that you're in and does an incredible job of illustrating and showing a diagram of what states you get in and how you get back to your green zone so you can leave all your shit behind at work every day and not take it to home. But If you haven't done it, I will. I would definitely be recommending trying a couple of real ice baths before you go on that trip.
Speaker 3:I don't even have a cold shower.
Speaker 1:Look, I will get in the zone, I will, I will do it and I won't complain. But you know, our honey moon, we, we trekked up to bloody the top of Mount Kinabalu and then all of a sudden he's borrowing my Beanie and my gloves and my track pants and you know like, and I've got no complaints. I'm sweet.
Speaker 2:But you know, you look like I can say is make the most of weekend. I mean, it is incredible, the food's incredible, the Commodation, the, so you go into the snowy mountains.
Speaker 3:Looking forward to it. Yeah, it's booking that sort of stuff that bring you away from the business and bring you back.
Speaker 2:I think, yeah, and just do your best to get in his own. So have you do. You know Chris from CMA?
Speaker 1:No, well, it turns out we um, so we randomly um. We're finalists for the Brisbane.
Speaker 3:Express Penaribus. Well, I was too scared to go talk to him.
Speaker 1:I don't know what happened. Well, I didn't even know who he was but he was super, super nervous because he'd won so many years prior, which fair enough, um, but we had a couple between us, so and we didn't know what we would do on there, we would just say this is cool, like you know to be up in this league like how did we get here? It was. Yeah, we were a bit like out of our zone. You know a couple of trades but um, never a zone you got it like we embraced.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh yeah, we embraced. Wine helps, but uh, yeah, no, it's um. Yeah, it was just coincidental.
Speaker 3:So yeah, did he do it with him, did you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so he can. Um, I had only met him a couple of times prior to that, but, um, yeah, he's a. He's a really, really cool guy. But, um, yeah, no, we I've had a group of mates that, um, we try and challenge ourselves each year like we did ever six years ago yeah right and then, um, I've told the story a few times on this podcast.
Speaker 2:But like one of the guys, trent, he knows, I've been getting into the ice bar and the breathing and the self-improvement over the last couple of years and he sort of takes the piss a lot and he actually, he just sent me a link, one like random link, one day and said, hey, this is the one for this year, I've booked it. And I was like sweet, like I didn't book it. But I text him back and said, yeah, sweet, I've booked it. And then he straight on the phone to me oh, I was just taking the piss, I hadn't booked it.
Speaker 2:We had to book it now because we're going, so um.
Speaker 1:I tried to do that for Brett from Saltash Holmes. He's like oh, oh oh, I think I've given you too much time to think about it oh, look, you gotta do it.
Speaker 2:It's, it's incredible again. But look, we went down there and, um, well, four of my mates had never done anything like that before. Like they went and had a couple of trial ice bars before we went, but, um, two of them were the biggest skeptics you could ever imagine and they uh yeah, put it this way by the end of the weekend there was a lot, of, a lot of tears, a lot of hugging and a lot of emotion going around and they, uh, they've come back and now they do the ice bars and that fairly regularly, and do the breath working stuff.
Speaker 2:So that's awesome you've got to get in the zone, but yeah, I don't want to tell you too much because, uh, yeah it's, but it's, it's unreal yeah, that's wicked we um.
Speaker 1:Our goal at the moment is to buy a big, proper ice bath for home, but we need to get over a few challenges first. But that's our definite next little congratulations moment. We'll see how we go.
Speaker 2:So what do you do any of it, chris, to like get it, get in, like what's your, what's your escape from?
Speaker 3:there. Uh, used to be running but that's gone of shit since, yeah, about six months. I need to get back into it. Go to the gym three times a week, but going with my mum who's 60, so I'm not exactly pushing myself like, but yeah, it's pretty good. But yeah, need to get back into running yeah and we got the sauna at home, which is like the best investment I reckon we've ever done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've heard we've been well. Shays got one, um done a bit of that lately and been thinking about buying one, so you got like the proper one, not the infrared one no infrared one yeah, um, and like you use it regularly three, three, four times a week, definitely on a hangover, that's yeah, the hangover helps.
Speaker 1:Actually, you do sweat it out a lot that's a game changer yeah, that's where it's a bit stinky after that one yeah, they're.
Speaker 3:They're good man like you reset and you're good and feel good afterwards.
Speaker 2:So cold shower afterwards so what do you do? You guys do anything with your team for self-improvement, or do you give them the opportunity?
Speaker 1:um self-improvement yeah we, we've, we've tried. I guess it's a hard one in terms of their personalities. We've had a lot of push back um and trying to find that sweet spot of what they're willing to do. I suggested the ice bar, set our warehouse, and he's like no one's gonna do that my batteries. I come up with these ideas and then I get you know pushed down very quickly. So it's um, it's one of those that we're just we're trying to find that sweet spot.
Speaker 3:We we're doing monthly barbecues in the morning, just for breakfast. Yeah, doing all that.
Speaker 2:So but we yeah, we need to get something like that to get the team back together, because we've had a few changes and a lot of new guys, so we need to work something out decent like that yeah, I don't know if I'm taking them, those snowy mountains no, it doesn't, let's keep sitting, but we I think it's something that's always a little bit tricky because you're you're always gonna have a couple of members of your team that aren't on board or whatever, so I just give them the option now, like if you want to if you want to be involved, you can.
Speaker 2:If you don't, you don't. But I think they've seen enough loads of people. There's a couple of guys that have sat out on a couple of things and I think now they start to see the rest of the team trying new things, so that the last few things we've done, everyone has done it that's awesome. It's something you just got to work on and yeah we constantly evolve in that regard.
Speaker 1:So Christmas parties are a different every year, trying to find that perfect, you know. Doing include family, doing include partners. Do you guys just want to get? You know, boost up together, do you? Whatever it might be, it's, um, we've taken our staff to straddle you a few times. Some appreciate it, some don't. Um, awards nights we even booked two huge tables this year and awards some came, some didn't. You know. Some want to dress up, some don't. That's okay, um, it's one of those that we um, we constantly look at different ways to do things across our whole business yeah, do you ask your team what they want to do?
Speaker 3:they don't hand they are so hard to squeeze it out of them, they sit there quiet, that's.
Speaker 1:That's where we get we.
Speaker 2:We don't know how to, yeah it's hard, like we're the same, like we we're constantly asking, like give us ideas, tell us new things you want to try.
Speaker 2:Like I ended up doing up this massive list last year and, man, I had everything on it like bloody free diving, snorkeling, skydiving, drag it like I put everything on it, okay, free diving and um, and I put it out to them and like we got a few suggestions back, which we've done, a lot of them this year but um, yeah, I don't, I don't know why that is like I don't know why yeah, we get free kits for every meeting yeah yeah, it's let me send them out a email I can we've been doing um individual reviews recently, and that's helped a lot.
Speaker 1:We've got a lot of out out of our teams, so what's? That um one-on-one reviews, um, that's helped significantly.
Speaker 1:So just because they actually talk, yeah um, they're not scared about what everyone else is going to think about them and they're not scared of, you know, putting their foot in it in front of others and making an embarrassment out of themselves. And yeah, so we've. We've taken a lot of feedback on board in that regard, but they all just like our biggest thing for our company is getting is putting your family first. So we, as much as we want to help improve them, we obviously want them to find time with their families, and some have taken it to the absolute 10th degree, like right up there, and others are just like, yeah, whatever, I'll come along to everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's. I don't know the ones that we come up with these ideas. It seems to be the same people that come along and that's cool. But then we're building this resentment from others because I get jealous.
Speaker 3:I think, yeah, they'll come eventually yeah keep inviting.
Speaker 2:I guess it's definitely the one of the hardest parts of a business, I think absolutely everyone's different personalities, opinions, all those types of things like yeah, and then it gets even harder when you put a bit of booze in the mix and yeah yeah, we are one way or the other yeah best mates for life, or yeah oh well, quit in the last
Speaker 2:yeah, the we recently did a really, really good session. It's the best team building thing we've ever done with Helen Rodnison from leadership EQ. I would highly recommend trying that. So she does it with horses just out at Mount Samson like it's unbelievable. We got the best feedback from well. All of our team showed up and every single one of them gave us feedback and it was a yeah, by far the best thing we've ever done, and I definitely didn't think it was something that most of them would have even been interested in showing up to.
Speaker 2:But it's a great idea yeah, it turned out to be really really good he said it, so you should agree now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm lucky, the ice bath buddy wasn't riding the horses.
Speaker 2:You don't even get on the horse. It's all just about it's actually using your breed.
Speaker 1:A lot of it is using your breathing to interact with the horse so horses are one of the best judges of character, and yeah, so yeah, it was very interesting a friend of ours uses um she's in a charity for horses to help children calming down and whatnot.
Speaker 2:It's um, it's beautiful yeah the horse whisperer yeah, all right, we'll um look, really appreciate you guys coming in today and um before we wrap it up, but like, give us well, kim, your top three things for working successfully together communication, be open, open minded and be willing to adapt all right, what's yours, chris?
Speaker 3:have it out like don't let it bowl up and have that argument um, try to chew silently. I've got to feel like this is a big issue for a lot of people and don't have a desk so close to each other respect each other's space.
Speaker 2:Yeah, being a pleasure having you guys on and, look, I think you've given some really good uh insights into what it's like for couples to work together, and there'll be a lot of couples out there, a lot of people listening to this thing and, holy shit, like that's us. So that's, um, that's what this podcast is all about telling stories and just telling it how it is real life shit. So, uh, appreciate you being a bit run real today and sharing your story and hopefully, uh, keep smashing some goals yeah, looking forward to it.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having us, yeah cheers guys.
Speaker 2:Are you ready to build smarter, live better and enjoy life, then head on to livelikebuildcom forward. Slash elevate to get started everything discussed during the level up podcast with me, dwayne Pearce, is based solely on my own personal experiences and those experiences of my guests. The information, opinions and recommendations presented in this podcast are for general information only, and any reliance on the information provided in this podcast is done at your own risk. We recommend that you attain your own professional advice in respect to the topics discussed during this podcast.