Unlock the full potential of your personal and professional life by harnessing the tales you spin in your mind. That's the promise of our conversation with Dr. Jo Lukins, who joins us to shed light on the profound influence that our internal narratives and the language we employ have on our everyday performance. As we discuss the emotional weight of words, you'll learn how minor tweaks in vocabulary, like the addition of 'yet', can foster a growth mindset crucial for excelling and evolving. My own journey of conquering interview jitters exemplifies just how deeply our thoughts sculpt our emotions and actions.
Ever considered the stories from your childhood could be quietly steering your life's ship? This episode ventures into the vaults of our past, pulling out the blueprints that have shaped our internal stories. Dr. Lukins and I dissect the role of early experiences in moulding our mindset while endorsing the importance of curiosity and staying solution-focused amidst life's curveballs. My transformation from a people-pleaser to someone who can confidently declare 'no' serves as a testament to the liberating power of aligning the stories we tell ourselves with our true ambitions.
Wrapping things up, we engage in a tactical discussion on the 'when, then' strategy, revealing how savvy habit formation can set the stage for success. Dr. Lukins and I chew over the dual nature of routines, which, while conserving mental energy, can also lead us astray if not carefully managed. By the close of our chat, you'll be inspired to take charge of your narrative, embarking on an unending quest to build smarter, live better, and bask in the fullness of life's offerings.
We're on a mission to elevate the professionalism of the residential construction industry, and help everyone enjoy building and renovating homes.
Easy to use Quoting software for Builders. Produce professional and accurate proposals. Quickly and accurately measure and markup plans in minutes. Win more jobs and track costs. 21 Day Free Trial.
check out more podcasts here...
https://levelupwithduaynepearce.buzzsprout.com
Unlock the full potential of your personal and professional life by harnessing the tales you spin in your mind. That's the promise of our conversation with Dr. Jo Lukins, who joins us to shed light on the profound influence that our internal narratives and the language we employ have on our everyday performance. As we discuss the emotional weight of words, you'll learn how minor tweaks in vocabulary, like the addition of 'yet', can foster a growth mindset crucial for excelling and evolving. My own journey of conquering interview jitters exemplifies just how deeply our thoughts sculpt our emotions and actions.
Ever considered the stories from your childhood could be quietly steering your life's ship? This episode ventures into the vaults of our past, pulling out the blueprints that have shaped our internal stories. Dr. Lukins and I dissect the role of early experiences in moulding our mindset while endorsing the importance of curiosity and staying solution-focused amidst life's curveballs. My transformation from a people-pleaser to someone who can confidently declare 'no' serves as a testament to the liberating power of aligning the stories we tell ourselves with our true ambitions.
Wrapping things up, we engage in a tactical discussion on the 'when, then' strategy, revealing how savvy habit formation can set the stage for success. Dr. Lukins and I chew over the dual nature of routines, which, while conserving mental energy, can also lead us astray if not carefully managed. By the close of our chat, you'll be inspired to take charge of your narrative, embarking on an unending quest to build smarter, live better, and bask in the fullness of life's offerings.
We're on a mission to elevate the professionalism of the residential construction industry, and help everyone enjoy building and renovating homes.
Easy to use Quoting software for Builders. Produce professional and accurate proposals. Quickly and accurately measure and markup plans in minutes. Win more jobs and track costs. 21 Day Free Trial.
check out more podcasts here...
https://levelupwithduaynepearce.buzzsprout.com
because if we don't be mindful about our language, then we create very, very structured ways of thinking and it will never change.
Speaker 2:Music G'day. Everyone, welcome back to another episode of A Level Up. We are actually back in the office again today because we're coming to you online. I haven't absolutely cracked in guests today. I'm actually a bit nervous about this one. I've been doing a bit of research and everything that I talk about, everything that I love, everything that's got me to where I am in my businesses and my life at the moment. This lady just has a brilliant way of getting it across and it really resonated with me when I was listening to one of her books. So today, the special guest we've got here has PhD in psychology, 30 years in the industry. She works with the Australian Defence Force and some of Australia's most elite athletes and sporting teams. She actually has her own podcast called the Locker Room, has written multiple books the Gameplan, the Grandstand and the one that I read, the Elite so highly recommend checking them out and actually knows a bit about the construction industry because the data has been a surveyor for 45 years. So a massive warm welcome to Dr Joe Lukens. How are you?
Speaker 1:I'm very good, thank you. Thank you for having me on the show.
Speaker 2:I look, so thanks so much for jumping on. As I mentioned just before, my sister-in-law put me in contact with you because she'd been to an event and you were the guest speaker there and she's like man, this lady is unbelievable. You've got to get her on your podcast and that's how it all started, so really appreciate you taking the time out to have a chat this afternoon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I appreciate your sister-in-law. It's always lovely, isn't it? Word of mouth, whatever industry you're in, is such an important part, so it's lovely when you know that you've connected with someone. So thank you for that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I guess. So our industry. Well, our audience is mainly builders and people in the construction industry. We do get a few homeowners and things, but my big goal and everything like my mission in life now is to get builders running successful, sustainable and profitable building businesses. But a big part of that is well I know from my own personal experiences like we have everything in our training programs in my live-life build business that we give builders like all the documents, the PDF systems, processes, everything they need but none of it works if you're not right yourself and like everything you talk about in your book was just so bang on and I really resonate. You talk a lot about the stories you tell yourself. Can we talk about that a little bit?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's a great place to start.
Speaker 2:Because I know myself like the stories and the words you use and like I did it for years and I never, no one ever pointed it out and I never thought I'd think of it. But when you flick that switch and I guess it's being conscious of it maybe- I don't know how it all works.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I've said, dwayne, the absolute starting point for pretty much anything in my kind of space is starts with that awareness or mindfulness, like if you can't see it, then you can't do anything about it. It is, I guess, a key message with that. So when I've seen people be successful, it's because there's some level of awareness as to how they're thinking and what's happening for them. And, by the same token, it goes the other way as well, that if we don't notice the stories that we tell ourselves, then they rule our lives.
Speaker 1:And you even opened up today with a very interesting story that you were telling us, but you were telling it to yourself, because you said I'm even a little bit nervous about today. So somewhere in that and I didn't want to stop just by picking you on you in the first part of that conversation. But it's interesting, isn't it? Like for whatever's happened, that you've said something to yourself that's generated a feeling for you, a feeling a little bit nervous. And one of the quotes I've always loved is that just because I think it doesn't mean that it's true, and I can't remember if I write that in the lead or not. I'm doing it in some current writing at the moment. But we tell ourselves stories all the time, but let's think about what we just called those. We call those stories, and stories in fact aren't always the same thing. So yeah, so that self-talk piece is really important.
Speaker 2:But it's so powerful, like I liked in your book and it's something that I try and do quite a lot is change the words I use to like I never struggle to get out of bed anymore because I want to do things. It's not like oh man, I've got to get to work. And you talked about it in your book, about using yet, like using the word yet and like taking out words like can't and those types of things Like can you talk a little bit about how words like, just individual words, can be really powerful?
Speaker 1:Yeah, language is really, really powerful because what it does is it. The reason it's powerful is because our words create emotions, and that's the way to think about it. So one of my things I often do in the workshops perhaps your sister-in-law was even there, and I probably did this, because I do it in most of them is I say to people and everyone listening can do the same thing when I say to you what were you like at maths at school? And what I can tell you happens is it doesn't matter who the room of the audience are, whether I've got soldiers in there, whether I've got bankers in there, whether I've got elite athletes in the room. There would just be this big split across the room where I'll get thumbs up and thumbs down, and some people will say I was great at maths, and then most of the room will go oh, I was terrible on all the rest of it.
Speaker 1:So, whatever your answer is, have a think, then, about what that has then created for you moving forward, because there's no doubt that if, when you think about what you're like at maths at school, and if you say to yourself, well, I was terrible at that and I was no good at it, and phrases like I don't have a maths brain. That's the sort of thing that we often hear young children tell us. Well, you are the least likely person to go and chase down a mathematics degree at university or become an engineer and so forth. So those words become really powerful. So let's just say you know. And you could turn around and say, look, I've got the evidence to prove it. Joe, you know, I got 40% on my maths test, so I'm not good at maths. So that's fair enough. You've got some evidence there to say that on the test you got less than half the marks.
Speaker 1:Where you have the potential for growth is to then to shift it, because if we don't be mindful about our language, then we create very, very structured ways of thinking and it will never change. So you can do something as simple, like you said, of adding on the word yet. So I could say I'm not good at maths yet and just by adding on the yet at the end, it just suggests that there's that slightest bit of potential that one day possibly, you know, if I was tutored and I had the inclination and I wanted to do it that I could improve my level in maths and what we see in terms of high performance is that those who are successful are open to the possibility of improvement. You know, if I say I'm no good at high jump, there's probably actually some evidence to prove that, because I must say, in the scheme of things it's probably not. It's been a long time since I've attempted high jump, but you know if I set very structured language about it, if that's very what we would call fixed language, that fixed mindset, I'm no good at high jump, I'm no good at riding a bike and I'm no good at making a souffle. You know if I say that just very random examples I pulled out there, but it's very fixed thinking, isn't it? And you can just tell, by the way that I've said it, that I am no closer to trying any of those things or having a go.
Speaker 1:The alternative to that is, in some spheres, if you're looking this sort of stuff up online, you might see it written as a growth mindset. I phrase it slightly differently because I work with athletes and high performers. So I talk about a performance mindset, and a performance mindset recognizes that we're on a path of improvement and growth. So what that means is that even when you know we're working with some of the absolute top level athletes, and one of those wrote the forward of my book. For those who follow Rugby League, you know those athletes, even at the top end, the pointy end of their game, are more than willing to concede that they've got more to learn and more to grow. And so when we do that, we set ourselves up for the possibility of further success.
Speaker 1:The challenge for us is that to have that performance mindset is you have to be a little bit vulnerable, you know. You have to be prepared to say I'm not sure how to do this or I'm going to try this, I'm going to see how it goes. And let's say, suddenly Joe has a complete about face tomorrow and she goes you know what I'm going to have a crack and high jump. I'm going to. Maybe I'm going to. You know, I'm sure that with some coaching I could get better at that. There's a good chance that even with my good intention, tomorrow I may not be much better than I was, you know, yesterday. But with time, you know, I can improve. But it means I'm going to not be successful repeatedly and I need to be able to manage that, that lack of success, if you like. So I guess it comes down to another message that I wrote it in the book and you hear me say it a lot is that it's not so much what happens to us, but it's what we do that becomes really important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, I can resonate with it so much because, knowing what I know now and being very open minded and things I like, I held myself back for so long because I used to constantly tell myself that I was a skilled dropout. I never finished grade 10. I'm uneducated, I don't deserve to do this or have this. And I was holding myself back because of what I was in my mind, what I was thinking and what I was telling myself.
Speaker 2:And over the last probably four to six years, I'm really conscious of what I tell myself now and it's it's all about the words and I can do whatever I want and I can achieve whatever I want, and I am smart enough to learn that, whereas for so long in my like for the first 35 years of my life, I was telling myself, I was holding myself back because of everything that I was telling myself every day when I got out of bed.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And what a great realization to have had.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I bet it's unbelievable because when you I'm not sure I'm sure you experienced this like so now I try and tell people this all the time, like even members of my family, mates, all types of people, and they like whatever can't be that simple Like. And one thing I actually I really resonated with them in your book. Well, I resonate with all of it, but something that really made me put a smile on my face, like that towards the end of the book you talk about I don't want to sport for everyone, actually, but you talked about how there's been studies done and like just people's health, like you can be a lot healthier person just by having a smile on your face and connecting with people and all those types of things. Like it it flows through your whole life.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And to come back to what you were saying is once you realize that that self talk that I'm actually referring to it in my next book, which I'm currently writing at the moment, as your inner coach, because we often talk about self talk, but I actually feel like we can separate it a little bit and go.
Speaker 1:There's actually a coach sitting in my head and what I need to help the coach do is come up with a language that's going to be most helpful for me, because that self commentary is happening for us all of the time, from the moment every one of us wakes up in the morning through to when we rest our head on the pillow at the end of the day, there is this free commentary going on in our heads, if you like, that we create, and I like to refer to it as the inner coach, because then I think we can go.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, what do I want to hear from a coach, what's the things that are going to be helpful for me, what's going to get me closer to my goals rather than further away from them? And I think that's a really helpful way to kind of conceptualize that stuff, because all the things you're saying, which is so true is that instruction from the inner coach. What it does within you is it creates a feeling and, even though some people don't always like to kind of acknowledge it, all of our behaviors are driven by how we feel.
Speaker 1:All their behaviors are driven by how we feel, so we're recording this. A little bit later in the day, when we finally get off the chat this afternoon, it'll probably be pretty close to knockoff time for me I don't know if it will be for you and then I might go downstairs. I'm in my home at the moment, so I might go downstairs and I might sit on the couch. That's the behavior Now. Then my inner coach starts and says gee, you're tired, gee, you've had a long day.
Speaker 1:It's the back end of the week Now, one of these so exhausted, and so that self-talk if that's what that is then creates feelings of fatigue and feeling tired and lethargic, and so Joe's not getting off the couch, whereas another version of Joe, her inner coach, could say first of all, she said that was a great interview, that was a lot of fun. And she might say it's been a long week and you've had a lot of things happening. But you know what? You're going to feel so much better, joe, when you get outside and just go and get some fresh air and go for a quick walk.
Speaker 1:And that version of Joe, coached that way by her in a voice, in a coach, is much more likely to go and put the runners on and do a walk around the block, and that version of Joe who's just walked around the block and got some fresh air and a little bit of physical activity, she's much more likely to cook a healthy dinner than the other version who's probably onto a second glass of wine already. So all of our behaviors are like it's our emotions that create our behaviors. We do stuff because we always say what do you feel like doing? We don't say what do you think like doing, we say what do you feel like doing. So if we want to have more influence over what we do, then we need to change how we feel or influence how we feel, and then that's all comes from that inner coach and the self talk.
Speaker 2:Isn't it funny? Like you like, because you feel your best generally when you're on a holiday. Like you can. You can be the tightest person in the world. You hate doing everything, but when you're going on holiday, you're up early, you're full of energy, you're happy all the time, you're hanging out with the family, like everything's nothing, it's a drama. And then, like the second last day or the day you know that you're coming back to reality and back to work, you fall back into your old stories and like I don't know, I just feel like everything starts to tie together the more you get your head around this. And like I honestly feel like every day I'm on a holiday now, like nothing's a problem for me because I'm the stories I tell myself makes me feel better. But I'm really keen to know your thoughts on this, because I don't know all the stuff, I listen to all the stuff, I do, the personal development things.
Speaker 2:Now, like I believe that there is an enormous amount of the population around the world that will never find their true self and I believe that that's because they're holding on to stories that they've been brought up with and I don't know.
Speaker 2:I think I've heard it explained a few different ways, but, like the way I explained, is like if you're Australian, born in an overseas country, and you're taken home by the wrong parents, like you would just learn their religion and their beliefs and their things, and so we're all brought up believing what we're surrounded by and hearing what we're told and I know well that's that's got a lot to do with the stories I was telling myself about being a school dropout and that I couldn't achieve what I wanted to achieve and like everyone used to.
Speaker 2:Like growing up, everyone constantly told me that you're always working, you work too hard and like. So I started to tell myself, yeah, I'm working too hard, like maybe that's why I feel tired all the time. But it was all just stories and those stories come, I believe, from my childhood, and I'm not saying that I wasn't brought up well like I love my parents, love my family, like an incredible child or they did everything for me. But I feel so many people could have a lot better life if they just dug deeper and found out who they really are and started telling themselves their own stories.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would agree with that, because we, I would say that we are definitely a product of our environment. So there's no doubt that there is also a genetic influence to who we all are, and psychology has been grappling with that one since time began. You know, is it nature, is it nurture? And Joe the great fence setter says well, it's probably better both, but. But absolutely, we are a product of our environment and and any wonder that we create stories with a level of permanency about them, because we form them when we're too young to think with the, the logic, if you like, about adults. You know we create these stories for ourselves.
Speaker 1:Particularly, I can remember one of my lecturers gosh, you're taking me right back now one of my lecturers at uni, which was decades ago, and he used to come in. It was a developmental psychologist and he used to come in and the start of every lecture he would just stop and he would pause and he would look at us and he would say early is deep, early is deep and it was. He would always set the tone with that to just say you know, you've really got to be respectful of what has happened in our early journeys. Now that doesn't mean that you need to live a life that is consistent with your stories, and particularly for those people and unfortunately there's far too many of them in the world who've had, you know, really challenging childhoods, and I know I'm underestimating it for many people when I describe it like that. But what we do know, like you say, is that when we recognize that, when we say, you know, I've been telling myself this cracker of a story for years, but, gee, it doesn't help me. What's the alternative? How could it be different? Is there another way to think about this? You know, get creative and curious about that.
Speaker 1:My other new favorite word is curious. There's a lot of good research about psychological benefits of curiosity, and even using the word curious actually has psychological benefits. So it's funny I don't tell my audience is that when I'm running a workshop and I make sure I've dropped five or six curiouses in the first half hour and then I go, does anyone notice that I've used the word curious a lot? And I go, yeah, what's with that? And I, you know, explain some of the science behind that. So so the stories we tell ourselves are incredibly important and the thing that we can do is that I'm a big fan of, even though the area of psychology that I come from is pretty, pretty clear and it says, you know, wherever you can, you need to be optimistic and you need to be positive, and I'm not going to disagree with that because the science sits behind it.
Speaker 1:My PhD was in optimism and pessimism, you know so like. I completely agree with the research. But what I would also say is that in the realities of life, turning around to some people and you know, turning around to some of the listeners today and going, you know what your life would be better for you and more positive and optimistic. I'm sure there's a few people that would like to tell me what I could do with my advice. So so I what, what, the alternative to that, what, what you can train your inner coach to do is what I would say to you is be positive and optimistic when you can, but if life's just throwing you a curveball, at minimum think helpful.
Speaker 1:So if all of a sudden you find yourself in a world pandemic, I'm not gonna turn around to those people, all of us and go. We'll just be positive, I'll be hopeful. But also, what's the most helpful thing for me right now that we're going through this? I'm based in North Queensland we have literally just it's still coming through we have a weather system right on top of us at the moment. I'm not gonna be excited and positive and optimistic about that in that like how good that we've got a cyclone, but what's a helpful way to think, given that we do so that can, then all of that's gonna influence how I feel and then that's gonna then translate out and influence whether I run around like a chalk or whether I actually just go and get the furniture from outside and move it inside and do a few other bits and pieces, which is what we did yesterday.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's such a like I think back now. So for the first 10 or 12 years I was in the typical rollercoaster ride year about, and I don't think it's just a construction industry, I think it's all businesses and professional athletes and everyone. Like we'll just constantly we'd have like I'd have my highs and then back down on my lows and then I'd win a contract and be back up high again and look, we've definitely turned it around. Like we have so many systems and documents and templates and everything is very structured, but I still have a lot of the same problems that I had back then. Like I'll still have staff members that randomly get sick or materials that don't show up or a client that might not pay a bill on time. But the biggest things that's changed is the things that I tell myself when those things happen. And it's chalk and cheese Like I can have. We can have a really like even now just leading into Christmas.
Speaker 2:Workload's are very heavy, schedules are tight, we're trying to get things done for clients and literally in the last three or four days we've had contractors away because their kids are sick and office accounts manager away because we got COVID, like all these things that have come up and I could easily sit here and go, man, like seriously, we've got this and this and this and this to do, like we're knocking off next week, this has to be done. Or the story I'm telling myself is, it's fine, like I can't control them getting sick, and so now all I can do is like go back over my list, reschedule things, come up with a solution, come up with a plan and just keep moving forward and dealing with it. So, as good as it is to have all the systems and the documents and everything we need to run a great business, the biggest influence on from where I was 10 years ago to now is the stories and the words I use, and that's why I was listening to your book and just get on like, yes, this is awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's great, and I imagine and you'd be the one to reflect on it, but I imagine that by making that change, you probably feel like you're more in control of yourself. Yeah in control of everything, like I appreciate my value, my time, like that was.
Speaker 2:The other thing you talk about in your book is time and my time myself, my wife, my kids that is my priority and my time revolves around them. And I actually seriously like every second sentence in your book. I was like high five and but like I tell the glass jar and the rock story all the time, every time we get a new member come into our community, because it again that was another massive game changer in my life, my wife's life. We got to a point where we just like everything was out of control. We're getting no time with the kids, no time with each other Every day.
Speaker 2:The business was just putting out fires and we simply started one Sunday afternoon, like my wife put into. She wanted to start going to Pilates. I put in, I was catching up with some mates. On a Tuesday, I wanted to do some bush walking. And literally within two or three weeks we saw a change because if people asked to do something in those times, we would tell them oh no, look, sorry, we can't make it. And it just kept growing and growing and growing. And we've actually done it in the last two months. So we have just finished. We've got every long weekend planned for next year, every school holiday with our kids planned and all of our businesses. We've scheduled our live events, all of our Zoom calls, everything. And then that just gives me a certain amount of time that I can fit in to get the general business stuff done. And so many people constantly say to me, like how do you get so much done? And I just simply say I value my time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And the other thing that sounds like you've done is it's tricky, isn't it? It's every time we say yes to something, then, by default, we're saying no to something else.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know so, for example, I said yes to come on this podcast.
Speaker 1:So therefore, you know, and let's say we spend an hour together or however long we are together, you know, by the time you and you've done the same, you've said yes, let's go on this podcast.
Speaker 1:So there's a whole range of things that are not happening now in both of our lives because we've said no to them, because we've prioritized this, and so that's the constant question that we're asking ourselves is and look, I've got to say, dwayne, it's taken me years, decades to get better at it, but I now embrace saying no to things. You know, like I, just in my head, you know when you're having a conversation with someone and you can tell that they're lining you up to ask you to do something or commit to something or whatever it is. You know that kind of slight change in the tone in the and in my head, in addition to I do promise I do listen attentively to people, but the other thing I do is I have set up a habit, and you would have read a bit or listened to what I've said about habits. I have this default habit that I've set up for myself. That is literally just no, convince me. You know so only because I used to be a people pleaser. I used to say yes to everything.
Speaker 1:Now, I also used to be early in my career, so it was a really smart thing to do back when I was 25. I'm not 25 now and so you know, early in my career I'm getting out there and I'm having a go and I'm cutting my teeth and I'm getting experience. You know, and I do say to people emerging in their profession, saying yes is something that's really helpful thing to do. Through the early stages of your career. You've got to be obviously mindful of burnout and so forth, but now, now that I'm old and cranky, I say no to everything. So, and it's liberating. So and I do that deliberately because, like you say, time is, you ask anyone, time is one of the most precious things that we have. So how we choose to spend our time, it's a personal respect thing, I think, as much as anything.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, but, like you say in your book, like you, I can't remember the minutes. You had the minutes worked out, but like we all have the exact same thing, it's one thing on this planet that we all have the same amount of and simply, whatever situation you're in in your life, wherever you're at your financial situation, your weight situation, your work situation, relationship any of that all comes back to the stories you tell yourself and how you value your time. And I know like. I think our industry is very bad for it.
Speaker 2:Like builders, a lot of tradies are people pleases and I think it's this whole thing. Like they're 900 to 10, they don't understand their overheads, they don't understand their costings, they're not understanding the business, they're constantly chasing the cash flow and they think, and the story they tell themselves is that they have to say yes to everything that comes across their desk because if they don't, they won't get enough cash flowing and the business won't keep flowing, they won't be able to pay the bills and they won't achieve the goals they're trying to get to. But in reality, if they just learnt to say no to the people that their guts is telling them, oh look, this isn't the job for us or this isn't the type of job we wanna do, or these aren't the type of clients we wanna work with. Another door opens.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Like it's literally that simple. Like every person you say before every person you say no to everything you say no to allows something else to happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and whether that be taking on a new project, trying a new opportunity, or sitting on the back of decorating a book, you know, like, whatever it is, it's not that we have to fill everything up, a bit like that rock and jar example that we both know so well. But and I think the other thing that can help too, just building off that example you just gave about, particularly for many of the listeners who are kind of chasing the money and chasing the numbers and so forth is if you think there are stories that you're telling yourself that aren't working for you, the best way to check that out is to fact check them, is to check the facts on what you're saying. So if I, if I let's just say you know, something goes wrong for me at work, whatever it is, I give a presentation, I deliver some things, I just get this sense that it just hasn't gone as well as it could have. You know, like that's again, that's my feeling, that's my story, you know. So then the next thing for me to do is to fact check it. You know, like, is it actually true? Just because I think it doesn't mean that it's true. So what am I thinking here? And so then what I might do is I might, in the case of a workshop, there might be feedback. You know feedback forms and that will soon tell me.
Speaker 1:You know so, and I guess one of the nice things in the building industry is it's so full of data, isn't it? So there's lots of ways that you know, if you've got some good guidance from you, know people to give you some financial guidance and, like you said, you've got systems and processes which enables your community to check the facts using your systems and processes, is my guess. But then the story bit each one of us. I have to own our own stories and be responsible for those, and so again, if you're not sure, look at them through the lens of is this story helpful for me right now or not? And if it's not helpful, then work towards shifting it or changing it.
Speaker 2:My favorite saying again I think I mentioned before we were started recording.
Speaker 2:My wife and I went over to some of Grant's squad owns 10X growth conferences and he I lived my life by one of his, saying that nothing happens to you, everything happens because of you.
Speaker 2:And I think, like so, everything that happens to me in my life and my business and my relationships, I constantly, I'm always asking myself that question. And whether it be like if I've just had an argument with one of the kids like what could I have done differently, or what did I do to make that happen? Or, and yeah, if there's an issue with a client, or if there's an issue like multiple reasons, but when you take the time to sit back and ask yourself those types of questions and, like you're saying, fact checked yourself, and if you're honest with yourself and you take ownership of it, like there's so many people. Just, I would imagine, because I was in a position where, like I would know daily what I was doing wrong. I just didn't, I just wasn't stepping up, I wasn't taking ownership, I wasn't taking responsibility and I knew what I had to do, but I just didn't do it. And it's funny, which is even more, frustrating, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Isn't it frustrating when you know that there's something that you want to be doing or you could be doing, and then there's a part of you, part of you're in a coach going and you're not even doing that. And then what happens with that is particularly if we one of the phrases I love to remove from our language where we can, is the word should, sh-o-u-l-d. Should, because I think when people should on themselves, what happens is typically we struggle then when we don't comply with it. You know, because I should get up early tomorrow morning and I should go to the gym and I should spend more time slow cooking pasta and I should, you know, go to bed earlier and I should put my phone down, and I shouldn't, I shouldn't, I shouldn't. It's coming along the list now, the more I think about it. But what happens is if I say, you know, I should exercise every single day and then one day I don't, what tends to happen then is the emotion that comes with it, because, remember, our inner coach creates emotions for us.
Speaker 1:I know, if I should on myself and I say I should exercise every single day and then I don't, then I feel guilty and if ever there was a waste of time is it's guilt. You know, like so, change the language. It would be great if I exercised every day, like that would be really great. And some weeks I will and some weeks I won't. And that's okay Because you know, every week gets me a bit closer to to where I want to be. But the other thing is is being realistic about it because, depending on what you're doing, from my career in sports science, most of the exercise physiologist I know wouldn't even want me to exercise every single day. So you know, maybe they'd want to do it six days a week and have a rest day. So you know, sometimes the stories we tell ourselves not even true. It's inconsistent with the advice. It's not what the facts tell us.
Speaker 2:I love that one. I'm going to start using that because I say should a lot. Just listening to you say that, then, yeah, I can already see how that would help. Yeah, it resonates.
Speaker 1:And all you need to do with it is. So what I'd suggest is to particularly listen to yourself. If you say it out loud, you know, because that's an easy one to catch, and all I would suggest is, when that happens, rather than then go oh, there, I go again, using that should word, you know rather than looking at it through the lens of judgment and you're ready for it look at it through the lens of curiosity. Well, that's interesting. I just showed it on myself and I told Joe the other day that I was going to try and do less of that. What would be a better way to say it? You know, it'd be good if I rang mum, It'd be good if I did some exercise, it'd be good if I cooked dinner rather than had takeaway. But you know what? It has been a week and I'm going to give myself a gift of a meal from the Thai takeaway down the road or whatever it is.
Speaker 1:So what I would suggest is and we may or may not get to it, but that, when, then, strategy that I talk about in the elite, which is an absolute gem in terms of habit formation, is when I shoot on myself, then I'll curiously reword it. You know, that's how I would say it. You know, so if I hear myself say it out loud, or even if I just notice it in my head, there's that noticing element. Again, if I don't notice it, then I can't do anything about it, but if I notice that I just three times said, oh, I should have a tidy desk and I should have got those quotes done and I should have, you know, finalized the paperwork and I should have paid that invoice or whatever it is. And I didn't. I'm not saying, let yourself off the hook with it, but just go. Okay, it would be really great if I'd done all that, and I haven't. I use it, I haven't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I can think of like I do it in my personal life as well, like I should get a bit earlier, I should do this, I should do that. But I can actually think of a lot of times with my team on site like quite often I'll be saying, oh, we should do that or we should do that. But yeah, by changing the word to that would be good if we did that. I can actually see how that would improve my team on site as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. And the other word that can happen is because you know there will be some times where a behavior absolutely has to happen because it's about safety, or it's about compliance, or it's the next logical step in the build and all the rest of it. So that's where I would suggest, rather than we should do this, I would change it to. We need to do this, you know, and it would be good if we did it this afternoon, you know, you know. So that should stuff. And I guess, again, see what's helpful with your team, see how they respond.
Speaker 1:But if what you're doing through your behaviors is generating feelings of guilt in others, it typically isn't helpful. And the other thing that I see is that it often can create at times with it particularly with workplaces or sporting teams, because they work the same way Blame culture, where you know, if I feel like, if everything's fixed and it's got to be perfect and the boss just said you should do this and we haven't, then the first thing I might do, if I'm feeling a bit vulnerable, is I'll go. Well, that wasn't me, that was Fred, that was somebody else, I don't know. I don't know who was on the site yesterday, but I didn't leave that pile of stuff over there. That wasn't me, you know.
Speaker 1:And it's interesting because I've had some recent experiences with builders, and one in particular. Each time you said, hey, listen, I need to talk to you about this particular thing, you know what, what I know what's happening with this part of the job, and first response every single time was, oh, yeah, well, that's the painter, or that's the builder, or that's, yeah, you can't get. You know, and it was just like, oh, stop blaming everyone else. And you use one of my favorite phrases just before, which is you know, if I don't like what somebody's doing, then the first place I need to start with is what did I do that?
Speaker 1:let this happen, you know, and that might be that might be what I said to the builder. I said, well, I've got a bit frustrated.
Speaker 1:There was a little bit too much blame culture for my my liking and I may have actually pointed out. I did ask a curious question and I did ask his name. Was it on the sign of the of the building site? And it turned out that it was his. So maybe he he owned the responsibility, just like I do for me and my team and you know anyone who's working with me, which I think you should, and I think that's a really important thing to point out for any business owners, especially builders.
Speaker 2:Builders have so many trades and suppliers and everyone would come in underneath them and, at the end of the day, exactly what you said like you as a builder, as a principal contractor, that is your business. Whatever happens on that site to that client for that job is 100 percent your responsibility. It's not the painters, it's not the carpenters, it's not the supplier, it's not the delivery driver. It is your responsibility.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right. And it's interesting, isn't it? Because when people go straight to blame, you know they go oh, it wasn't me, it was, it was any of one of those things that you've just mentioned. That might make you feel better because you know you've just had a and I'm going to use some emotive language here, so please listen out for the stories but if you've just been accused of doing something, you know you haven't done whatever it is on my job and all I hear is you blaming someone else, it might make you feel better in that moment because that helps you deal with the accusation. But for me, as the customer, I'm no happier. In fact, now I'm irritated at two people and irritated that you would employ someone that would do that. So where you're more likely to then work alongside me, have me feeling a bit better about the issue, even if we haven't resolved it in that moment is to say I'm sorry that happened for you. You know, like you know, if that's an appropriate response. I mean, you've got to think that one through, but you know.
Speaker 1:You know, joe, I'm sorry that's happened for you. I'm sorry there's been that delay. I understand that would be frustrating for you and to some extent you know it's not my house. But I share that frustration with you and I'm going to work towards getting a solution for you. Now. You don't need to necessarily explain that. You know the painter was off with COVID and the backup painter got called away to a big construction site across town or whatever it is. You know, don't fill it up with all that waffle, just own it, and then at least I'll go. Oh, thank goodness, well, you've taken charge of it, because if all you're telling me is that someone else's fault, I'm like I don't even know who that person is. So do I have to go and talk to them now? So it's, it can be tricky to do it, but you know, and I do that as a parent as well, so I know, there's probably lots of parents listening in as well.
Speaker 1:You know, if I don't like what's in front of me, what am I? You know, if there's wet towels on the bedroom floor, what was I doing? That allowed that to happen, you know?
Speaker 2:yeah, 100% ownership. Hey Joe, well, I reckon we'll have to get you back for a round two, but we'll wrap it up shortly. But I definitely would like to talk about that when and then, if we can, before you get out of here.
Speaker 1:So can you touch on that a little bit.
Speaker 2:Because that was. I went back and listened to that part of the book probably three times. I kept going back, chapter, back chapter, because that was really powerful exercise to do as well.
Speaker 1:Oh, look it's. It's a funny thing because there's lots of stuff around goal setting and getting things achieved and all the rest of it, and for some reason it seems to be a bit of a gap in the literature from what I've seen and you know, you're very well read in all of these areas as well and you don't see a lot of that being discussed. So that's why I knew it was really important to include in the book. The other reason is is because it's something that I work on with virtually every client that I work with. So, whether you are someone who is wanting to be successful within your own business, whether you are a member of our defense forces, whether you are an elite athlete, because one of the things I, one of the things messages I really like to get across to people, is that I know the bright and shiny stuff is appealing. Someone comes along and they says you know, I'm going to be your mindset coach and I'm going to do all these things for you and all the rest of it.
Speaker 1:There's often a lot of razzle and dazzle with that. Now, that's a bit of fun and I'm not, you know, saying that it doesn't have its place, because it does. You know it gets us motivated, gets us up, but what you find is, if you're going to listen to someone who's really motivating as a speaker is, then after a little bit of time it wanes off. So, when it comes to high performance, I would love to say it's the razzle and the dazzle, because there's plenty of those, you know. You can get on to YouTube and watch those for hours.
Speaker 1:The reality is, is the high performance comes from each one of us doing the little things well, which is one of the things I talk about in the game plan I took. I took about the five pillars of high performance and what they are, and that, like that's a journal so you can kind of work your way through it and there's some videos and things in there. But the when then strategy to get to the point, which is the question that you asked me is it's a strategy that you can use to create new habits. Now, people I know if I go into a group of people and I say, hello, I'm Joe, I'm here to teach you about creating habits, everyone will kind of roll their eyes a little bit and go, oh, okay, or I thought it'd be something more exciting than this. But the reality is is the high performance comes off the back of great habits.
Speaker 1:You know, athletes have to do repeatedly, do the same things to get the high performance, because and the reason for it is is you're not always going to feel motivated, so you need to have discipline. And you're not always going to have discipline, so you need to have habits. So habits are the thing that rescue us when we're feeling tired and fatigued. So at the end of the week, we drop to our habits, whatever they are. And if you have, it is that you go to the pub and I'm certainly not against anyone going to the pub at all, I'll probably see you there myself. But the reality is is we know it, don't we?
Speaker 1:We're fatigued and we're tired. Everything is harder If you're lying on the couch, at whatever time nine o'clock at night or whatever watching something on TV. It is so much easier to hit next episode rather than get up, put the cat out, shut the windows, turn the lights off and brush your teeth and go to bed. You know so, and that's not because humans are lazy, it's because humans are fatigued. So the when then strategy is something that's been around for quite some time and there's probably some stuff on some of my other podcasts about it as well. If people want to quick look at it or, like you said, they can read about it in the elite, but it's it's a strategy that helps us go from a good intention to actual, consistent behavior, because we are getting very close to one of my least favorite times of the year, which is when everyone sets themselves up for failure.
Speaker 1:And that is the 31st of December. Because what will happen on the 31st of December is there'll be all these discussions around, you know, barbecues and nightclubs and all sorts of things all around Australia where people will talk about their news resolutions. And typically, unfortunately, what people are doing is they're setting themselves up for disappointment because the majority of news resolutions don't stick. And that's not because we're failed humans. You know, if you don't keep to your news resolution, I'm actually going to say to you, it's not your fault. What it is is that you have a good intention and you need something to get you from what I want to do to how I'm going to do it, you know. And so the when then strategy is it's a little I like to call it like it's a little life hack.
Speaker 1:I use it all the time. I used it with you before when we were talking about that should language. If we remember my wording, I said, when I should on myself, then I'll ask myself what would be good to do. And so what will happen for you, dwayne, and I know that you want it to happen anyway, so it's a good thing, but what will happen is the next time you say the word should, either out loud or in your head, there's a little part of you it's going to be like, even though I won't be in the room with you, it's like I am, I'm tapping on your shoulder, going, hey, you're going to do something about this.
Speaker 1:And so it's a really great strategy for triggering thoughts, because, you know, the reason the good intentions don't come through is that we're tired and we're fatigued. We know, with news resolutions that I think it's about the 18th of January. If you haven't nailed it by then, just wait till next year, like you know. Like don't, don't put it on yourself. That's why Jim makes so much money in January, you know, because there's all these good intentions out there. But if we really want to set ourselves up for success, we need to learn something, to learn some of the smallest strategies, and the when then strategy is a great one.
Speaker 2:I think it was really awesome how you tied it in with habits, because I talk about routines a lot and I think a lot of my successes come from having routines. Like I get out of bed, I do the exact same thing. Well, it actually mine starts the night before, the night before, so I don't annoy my wife in the morning because I get up early. I get my clothes out, I take them in the bathroom, put them on the vanity and then, as soon as I get up in the morning, I do the exact same thing. And but it's actually the habit, isn't it? Like it's not the routine that's making me successful, it's the habit of doing the routine. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, habits and routines come. They're very closely intertwined. So your habits are awesome because there's two things that's going on there, and what you've noticed about the consistency of your habits is certainly supported by the evidence. So we know that about 40% of what most of us do each day roughly is on the autopilot. So I would imagine that at whatever point in the evening you go in, you grab your clothes, you get your boots, you get all your bits and pieces, you know where your keys are, you charge your phone, all those things. So, like you said, you set yourself up for success the next morning and then, if you wake up to an alarm, the alarm goes off and then you, literally, if I had some clever little drone following you around through the morning, it would follow the same path most days, for two reasons. One, because it means you get everything done. It means you walk out the house wearing the right clothes. You've probably grabbed your lunch, that you packed your leftovers the night before. You know all those sorts of things that we might do as part of our routine or our habit. So it makes sure you get everything done. But the other thing it does is it saves you.
Speaker 1:You know we've talked about time before. It saves you the time of thinking about it. Like, do I know? You've probably got enough, as have all the listeners going on in our lives, that you don't need to wake up in the morning and go? You know what I'm gonna brush my teeth today? I'm gonna do that with my left hand and my right hand, like which hand am I gonna use to hold the toothbrush? Which one will I pick? And my bathroom is one of those fancy new bathrooms because we're in a new house. We've got two sinks. Like where am I gonna stand to brush my teeth Left sink or the right sink? Like.
Speaker 1:So, before the listeners are thinking, I've gone slightly mad. Of course we don't think about those things, but do you know what? Every single one of those things is a decision. So what I love about habits is they save us from having to think. What I worry about habits is they save us from having to think. So we will have and I'm gonna use the phrasing again very carefully we have helpful habits Like being organised in the morning, putting our clothes out, eating something healthy for breakfast you know Sankalator to kids and kissing our partner for good vibes. You know, we've got helpful habits, and then we've got other habits that perhaps are less so, which might be, you know. Yeah, we've got nothing.
Speaker 2:Social media.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, social media is such a great that's a great example is that you suddenly go. I don't know where the last 45 minutes have gone, but I'm suddenly looking at cap videos.
Speaker 1:So you know so so so, and social media is a great one for all of us because it is a great tool and I know I run a lot of my business through my social media, so it's a necessary tool for me, but it's also a curse. So if I don't pay attention there's that theme that you started us off with at the front end of the interview If I don't pay attention to my social media engagement and that I keep saying yes to Instagram cap videos, then by default I'm saying no to something else. So if I'm saying yes to social media which is okay, there are times when it helps my business to pay attention to social media If I say yes to social media, what am I saying no to? And one last point on exactly that that, because we've talked about it a little bit the other phrasing, if you really want to challenge yourself.
Speaker 1:Of course, the first time I ever did this to myself was with one of my children, so it was particularly confronting.
Speaker 1:I can remember it was a school holidays and the boys were younger and one of them came into my office and I was plowing through an email and, you know, with all the innocence of eight years of age, he looked me straight in the eye and he goes mum, do you feel like a game of monopoly? Now we all know that monopoly is not like a quick five minute thing to do. And I looked at him and I went on autopilot to say to him mate, I've got time at the moment, I've got to do this email or whatever it was. And I managed to stop myself first of all and in my head I said to myself no, mate, you're not my priority. And I thought, yeah, I don't think I can actually have those words come out loud to him. So I went sure, mate, go and set up the set you know. And like to this day, I remember that example.
Speaker 1:I remember that monopoly game. I've no idea what the email was. So again, each time we say no to something we are helpfully or unhelpfully saying, that is not my priority. So every time we're spending an hour on social media, whatever else is around us and whoever else is around us, we're saying, at this point in time, you're not my priority.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's not yeah.
Speaker 2:Look, I could seriously, I know your time is valuable and look, I could definitely talk to you for hours and if you'd love to come back, we'll have you back again. But, look, I really appreciate your time and, like I should add a notepad here today because you've definitely taught me a lot and I know our listeners would have got a lot out of it, and so thank you so much for coming on and look for everyone what's your Instagram and stuff that people want to find you.
Speaker 1:The handy thing is, I kept it very simple. So if you can remember my name, you can find me. So, instagram, where am I? I'm Instagram, facebook, linkedin and I am not TikTok, because that's way too complicated for me. So Dr Joe Lukens is. So, if you can. Oh, and my podcast, which is called the Locker Room. But if you can get to any one of those, you'll be able to find me on what to be a favorite flavor of social media. Here I am. Listen to that. You know everyone get off social media, oh, except if you want to come and listen to me on social media. So yeah, so that would be great if you want to connect in that way.
Speaker 1:I do have a newsletter that comes out once a month. It comes out on the first Thursday of the month and I do actually in Facebook. It's fairly recently. I've just set up one of those little groups in there which is called winning strategy, so I just add some extra content in there. I do a live Q&A every Wednesday, so if someone's got a question they can just message it through, and you know I don't say who's question it is, but I just. You know, I had one from a sporting referee last week, so we did one from them. So, yeah, so, lots of ways to stay in contact and, and you know, particularly for those who perhaps find the auditory stuff easier to consume, you know, because you're driving around or you're listening on site or whatever it is then the podcast, or it's probably a good way to yeah, your podcast is awesome.
Speaker 2:I started getting into a few, a few of those. So, look, go and check out Joe's stuff. It's absolutely fantastic. I don't know. I think there's multiple reasons I resonate with you One because you're Aussie. Two, because it's just incredible content. And three, I think, because I've lived and breathed, like I've seen the change that what you talk about does, and I'm really keen to put some of the stuff that you've talked about today into practice and see where we go with that. But we didn't even get to talk today about the like I was keen to talk about Jonathan Thurston and some of the sporting people you've worked with. But yeah, look, if you've got time we'll have you back. But I really appreciate your time today and yeah, you've dropped a lot of bombs through our list and so I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Oh, my absolute pleasure, so I appreciate that. Can I ask you one last question before we finish?
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure.
Speaker 1:So I'm just curious as to how your story is sitting with you now, because we opened the interview and you said your story was that you were feeling a little bit nervous. Are you feeling a bit more comfortable now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, now, look, I was actually within like two minutes of talking to you. Yeah, I wasn't nervous at all. So, yeah, definitely what you tell yourself in your head, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Absolutely Particularly. Don't you love things, you tell yourself, and then you sit on it for two weeks feeling worried about something and then, yeah, it was fine. So more likely than not, it always will be. So that's, that's great. I feel like I've come full circle on that one, so I'm very grateful for the time to to chat with you and to connect with with your listeners and all the work that you're doing for them, so I can help support them as well from with some of the things that I do Be very happy to.
Speaker 2:Awesome Thanks, Joe. Are you ready to build smarter, live better and enjoy life, then head on to livelikebuildcom forward.
Speaker 1:slash elevate to get started.
Speaker 2:Everything discussed during the level up podcast with me, duane Pierce, is based solely on my own personal experiences and those experiences of my guests. The information, opinions and recommendations presented in this podcast are for general information only, and any reliance on the information provided in this podcast is done at your own risk. We recommend that you attain your own professional advice in respect to the topics discussed during this podcast.