Level Up with Duayne Pearce
I take on the role of an authoritative voice that fearlessly communicates truths drawn directly from my lived experiences. With a genuine sense of ownership, my insights are free from any hidden agendas – they truly belong to the audience. My stories and journey add remarkable value, the key now lies in harnessing its power effectively to help others.
My purpose is to create a new residential building industry. My mission is to inspire unshakable self-confidence in my colleagues in the industry, empowering them to orchestrate prosperous, enduring, and lucrative businesses that bring exceptional projects to fruition for our clients.
My goal is to foster a deeper comprehension among clients about the identity and functions of builders, redefining their perceptions.
Level Up with Duayne Pearce
Overcoming Bad Habits to Run Your Own Race.
Duayne chats this week with Brad McEwan from Sanford Build Co on his journey from working in a wakeboarding shop to building custom homes for clients.
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just after I finished building my parents house, I had a head-on motorbike crash in the bush and broke both my arms and um. That brought my career to a grinding halt g'day everyone.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to another episode of level up. We are in for another cracking one this afternoon. I've been pretty keen for this one. I've been following this bloke on Instagram for a while and then actually got to meet him probably in the last three or four months when I did my healthy home course with Zara Dakota. So big welcome to Brad from Stanford Building. Mate, how are you?
Speaker 1:Not bad mate, Not bad at all. Good to be here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mate, I appreciate you coming on. I think you've got a lot to offer. Um, I know I definitely got a lot out. I thought well, possibly got more out of you than I did out of the healthy home course, like you're pretty um informative during that course.
Speaker 1:You know your stuff yeah, yeah, I sort of um, yeah, really dove deep into building a good few years ago now and it, yeah, just sort of like consumed my life and, yeah, still just trying to learn more and more every day and just trying to pass it on as much as I can and that's awesome.
Speaker 2:Well, I probably should confirm zara's course is unreal, so, uh, but yeah, brad just had a lot of input. Uh, well, zara was asking questions, but look where's the passion come from, mate, like we would. Um, well, actually let's go back a little bit, because I think your story of how you got into the industries I only found this out in the last few days, but you started in a wakeboard shop- yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So my parents told me that I was too smart to be a trainee and I should go to uni. So I went to uni, did event management and it was sort of like right smack in the gfc, and so the events industry had sort of died in its ass. And, um, I was at the time, you know, like real keen wakeboarder, snowboarder, so was working through uni part-time at the wakeboard store and then just sort of stuck on there, um, and I actually had a real good customer, uh, who used to come in. He's like said to me one day he's like, oh, you're living the dream. And I'm like, well, I'm not really, because every weekend when you come in here to buy stuff for your boat, I'm in here working, um, and he's like, no, no, that's no good, he goes, come and work for me. And I was like, yeah, sweet, no dramas.
Speaker 1:Um, and he actually blew his knee out and um, yeah, so I put on the back burners for a little bit. I sort of didn't think too much of it. And then, yeah, he popped back up and he's like, oh, what are you doing? And by that stage I was well over, you know retail. And um, he's like, yeah, come and work for me and I was like happy days. So chucked on a tool belt and, uh, started slapping up frames so what do you um?
Speaker 2:is that how you got your apprenticeship?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, actually at the start he was real grumpy old wog and he's like I don't want an apprentice. But you know, come and just labor, you know I'll pay, I'll teach you. He just couldn't be bothered with all the rigmarole of of apprenticeships and stuff. And I actually had another mate from the same wakeboard store that had left and gone to work for a builder as an apprentice chippy and he was doing onsite training and after about six months, um, I convinced me, boss. I was like, hey, let me do um onsite training. He was like, yeah, no dramas. So I did my apprenticeship that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, awesome. So like I find all this stuff really interesting. Um, now I'm all about the stories you tell yourself and the bad habits and stuff you break. So, like, how did you shift that mindset from your parents telling you that you're too smart to be a tradie? And then obviously you've. You've done it now and you're very, very good at it.
Speaker 1:so um, oh look, being an academic was never for me, you know, so I always struggled, you know, in that regard, like I just wasn't anything that I was I was passionate about. I was always sort of passionate about anything that was hands-on. Like I was super passionate when I was at the wakeboard store, you know, um, all the tech with all the product and all that sort of stuff, but I just was, yeah, more about yeah, like relationships that way, and sort of actually doing something. You know whether that was, yeah, like doing an activity like wakeboarding, snowboarding or whatever, or doing something with your hands. And yeah, like all my mates from high school were all tradies, you know, and we sort of had got to.
Speaker 1:I started my apprenticeship I think I was like 22, 23. So by that stage, like my mates are qualified, making good money. Um, you know, actually, like one of my best mates was, uh, building a cabin in a caravan park, so we used to, you know, go up there and and you know, work on the cabin and I was like this is actually like wicked fun.
Speaker 1:Um. So then, yeah, when I got offered a carpentry apprenticeship, I was like it's no brainer, just jumped at it, and by that stage my parents had well and truly realized that I probably wasn't for sure in another career. Um, my mom was probably devil about it at the time. Um, but I actually built mom and dad a house a couple of years ago and they absolutely froth it. So, um, I think they see the benefit in being a tradie now that's unreal.
Speaker 2:So, like you, you've got a real passion for it now and you've sort of you've stepped outside the box a bit, haven't you? Because you, you obviously got on board with the pass of our stuff and you're really into the, the mold and the healthy home type stuff. So what's driven that passion to, I guess, think outside the box and not do just what every other builder does?
Speaker 1:uh, look, probably a lot of it's like to do with my own mental health. So when, well, like the dude that I worked for, we we mostly did, uh, bargain basement development work, you know. So we worked with the worst people that you could work with. You know what I mean. Apart from him like he's still one of my best mates this day um, you know, and he was real passionate, like just old school self-taught, um, you know, and he sort of was, I guess, getting to the end of his tether with the industry. He actually builds caravans now, um, you know. So yeah, I sort of just saw a side where he was real passionate about what he did and did a good job but no one else around us did, and so, like that was real hard because obviously I loved my job and it was like, well, my job's so difficult because all these other people don't care.
Speaker 1:And then I started working for a developer who was just doing like reno projects and stuff like that, and then we did one um, and a window leaked and I was like beside myself because I'm like man, like I try my hardest to do the best job ever and, you know, like I make sure everything's spot on, and like we went backwards and forwards. It turns out that it was a timber window and the company that manufactured and put no fall on the sill, so the water would just pull up on the sill and then drain back inside the house. But yeah, this was a while ago this was probably like six years ago and I'd been going to America a fair bit like in their summer times to go wakeboarding, so I'd started like being exposed to like their building industry over there. I actually had a mate who's a builder in Atlanta, georgia, and then, yeah, sort of got it came across like Matt Reisinger and then, yeah, watched a few of like his really early YouTube videos and then I was like man, we do shit, so wrong. And then from there I was just like, all right, well, I don't want to have to go back and fix any jobs. Like what can I do to not have to fix stuff and sort of just like push from there.
Speaker 1:And then I just got to a point where I couldn't push my clients anymore, like they weren't really interested in passive house stuff or whatever, and I I tried to get a couple of them over the line. I actually did a job like wrapped it all in pro climber and I just put the bill for all the labor. I just said to them you know, if you, if you buy the wrap and the tapes or whatever, like I'll just go full, send um, you know, just to sort of give it a whirl. And then yeah, after that my parents were keen to move and I just said, as a passing comment, I was like, oh, I'll build you a house. And no shit, 30 days later my mum and dad's house is on the market. They've bought a block of land and they're like, yeah, we're building a house. And yeah, so dove into building their house, which was awesome because I pretty much had like full control over like how it would be detailed and how it would be built.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just to go back. So when you say people were doing shit or wrong, like was that other trades on site or was it like you couldn't get clients to spend the money on the right stuff, like what do you mean by that?
Speaker 1:So like, yeah, like initially, like early on, obviously working for, yeah, like lowering developer type of builders. You know a lot of like what I call an armchair builder. Like you never saw the person you were building for, um, as all they cared about was the cheapest price. Obviously that comes with. You know the cheapest trades and you know you just were constantly. You know you'd roll up to start a frame and like the slabs miles out of square or up and down, and you just were constantly chasing your talent. It's like, well, my job's so hard because no one else gives a shit.
Speaker 2:How do I get myself?
Speaker 1:to where I'm surrounded by people that give a shit yeah.
Speaker 2:But that's really common in our industry, isn't it? And again, I put it out there all the time like it's driven by the volume building market, like everything's just low rates and massive turnover, and just smash out the same home a hundred times, like there's very little checks or supervision in between things. Like I know back in the day when I was doing that type of work, you'd there was nothing to turn up to a to throw a frame up and you'd mark it out. It'd be of square, but then one edge of the slab might be 200mm short or something and the bill was like, well, just fucking deal with it, just make the house smaller, like fuck, come on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was honestly like yeah, it's like oh, we'll bring this wall in 20mm, we'll do this, we'll do that, and you just were constantly putting out spot fires.
Speaker 2:I'm like, yeah, people don't know. Like, people don't know what they're getting, do they? Like? It's a big passion of mine? Now I I really feel for like obviously, everything's driven by dollars and people can only afford what they can afford. But even though people can only afford what they can afford, they, they need they should be getting the best product they can. For that, and these scenarios you and I talking about, like there's there'd be plenty of people out there that are living in houses that if they actually ran a tape over them, that aren't what they paid for, rooms are smaller, or rooms are out of square, or they have there's products that haven't been installed because they can't see them beyond the walls, or all that type of shit yeah, but it's like you know, like um, yeah, some of I've seen, especially in the volume game.
Speaker 1:So, like my old boss didn't work Fridays, we only worked four days a week. And as an apprentice I couldn't afford to work four days a week and one of my best mates is a plasterer, so I used to plaster on Fridays and Saturdays. To you know, get a bit of extra coin.
Speaker 1:And one of the things we used to do was for, like one of the volume builders, we used to do all the patches and, like some of the things you see, patching volume houses is like it would. It's honestly disgusting, like it would make you sick. Give us some examples. Oh, like I've seen water-damaged garage ceilings, like you know, where they've shaded the whole house with no ridge capping on. All the plaster's saturated. Just get another sheet of plaster, put it over the top, just use 40mm screws, screw through the whole lot. Way to go. We did a house where they hadn't run any of the lines for the splitties and so they just cut holes in the walls. Everywhere. There was heaps of other stuff. I watched an electrician one day to fit off the batten holder lights, walk into the room with a broomstick and just smash the broomstick straight up where he thought was dead, center of the room and that's where the batten holder went. Honestly, I could go on for days and days and days. The stuff that I've seen.
Speaker 2:A lot of it comes from that mentality, isn't it that that's how the industry is, just deal with it like. But it doesn't have to be that way, like if all these tradies that did this volume work actually stood up for themselves and realized that there's a better way to do things and there's actually lots of us custom builders out there that will pay for the right job.
Speaker 1:Yeah I think there's just a lot of trades out there that you know are probably a trade, because the opposite of me, who was told you're too smart to be a trade. They're told you're too dumb to do anything else, just do it, just do a trade and they're probably not that passionate about it. You know, and it's just. You know they sort of get stuck in that cycle and it it is really toxic in in that environment, like no one else cares. It's so hard for you to care, like it's such a beat down yeah.
Speaker 1:I legitimately nearly packed it in because I was like I can't keep. I can't keep doing this, I hate it. And you know, it was just at that point. I had started to build my socials and started to network with what better builders and by that stage I'd cracked the shits completely and I was like this I'm just going to be a builder and do it myself the way I want to do it. But I probably would have stayed a carpenter for a little bit longer had I had that network when I first became a builder earlier. I would have happily stayed, you know, being a carpenter for all these great builders that I know now yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So what was that the main driver for you to getting your builder's license? Or you just want to be able to deliver better quality projects and have more control over things?
Speaker 1:yeah, like I did a really big owner builder project was probably like two and a half mil.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I did a really big owner-builder project, it was probably like two and a half mil and I project managed it for him. He was a commercial builder and this was just his house and I had some really good experiences there when I was able to handpick trades. And then there was other times where he's like oh, I can get this other plaster in and save five grand, and then I just would be dealing with headaches and I'm like you. You know, at the end of the day he would have been paying me more than that five grand to fix shit than just paying it, and I could have trucked on with something else.
Speaker 1:Um, and I was like the only way I'm going to be able to actually control these situations is if I'm in the driver's seat. And, um, I was literally at that job. I can't remember exactly what happened, but there was one day and I was like I'm done and I rang up like a company that helps you get your DBU down here in Melbourne and I was like I paid the money over the phone straight away and started the process like right there, well, it's the only way to be, isn't it?
Speaker 2:When you can control the outcomes of everything? That's the only way to be, isn't? When you can control the outcomes of everything, that's, uh, that's the best solution. But yeah, again, it's. It's horrible that people aren't getting what they're paying for and yeah, like client, they just don't know what they don't know, do they like?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah and like until you're exposed to you know like a different side of things. You know like if you're in that same. You know like if you've grown up in like a different side of things. You know like if you're in that same. You know like if you've grown up in like a housing estate and everyone lives in a volume house and the quality of all their houses are the same, and that's all you know you're like. Oh well, this is just what it is.
Speaker 2:But even with the pricing stuff. Like you said that guy was trying to save some money here and there. Like you hear it all the time like you. Like you said that guy was trying to save some money here and there. Like you, you hear it all the time like but clients don't. If they haven't had experience in our game which most of them haven't they think it's that simple. They think it's just I'll get a price off five plasters and pick the cheapest one or five sparkies, whatever it is.
Speaker 2:But every trade is like it's no different than them choosing a builder. Like every trade that we use it has the same scenario. Like you go to the cheapest price, you get what you pay for. So there's a reason why. Like I tell all people all the time like there is a reason why things cost what they cost. If you get multiple prices and one of them's substantially lower than the others, like that is because it will be it'll'll be run shit, the supervision will be shit, the trades will be shit. Like the the materials will be shit. Like it's not that the other builders are making shit loads more money, it's just that that builder is not doing what he should be doing yeah, I've actually done two projects that we took over from builders gone broke and both the same story.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, we got prices that you know. Four builders were within 50 grand of each other and one was 150k cheaper. We went with them yeah and it's like how is that not like a huge red flag or massive alarm bells, that one person is like a massive outlier compared to everyone else?
Speaker 2:yeah, no, it's unbelievable, but you've obviously managed to turn things around. Like you're running a really good show now. I love the stuff you put on your socials, um, doing some quality work. But like obviously you did the healthy home course, you're doing other courses like how important do you think it is for traders and builders to educate themselves and learn more and look at and even if they're not going to put it into practice, like just just take in what our industry has to offer?
Speaker 1:oh, it's like when I first started learning stuff and like you know, like, I did my apprenticeship with a guy who I thought you know, geez, this guy's. And like quality workmanship, you know that sort of stuff like he's, he's honestly phenomenal. Like the amount of stuff I've learned off this bloke is, yeah, like crazy, um, but then like certain things, you know, like, I remember a job we did. I did it with a mate of mine, actually, and all the cladding swelled because we didn't seal any end cuts and at that time I'd never even heard of a data sheet or a spec sheet for a product.
Speaker 1:It was just like you're the chippy stuff shows up on site, you work out whatever fixings you've got in the trailer and you whack it up, you know, and like we had done a grouse job of installing it in terms of like it was straight and plumb and you know everything aesthetically looked amazing, but the one thing that made the job fail was we needed to just pick up a brush and seal the end cuts before we installed it, which none of us knew.
Speaker 1:The builder never told us you know, whatever, and I was like fuck what you know. At the end of the day it was me and my mate back there ripping it down and and replacing it. Um yeah, such an avoidable, really cheap solution that we just didn't know and and from then I was like I'm not going to install anything without you know, knowing exactly how this product's meant to be meant to be installed, and even, like you know, if you take away, like you know, the passive house and all that sort of stuff, like just that basic shit, like how many people mix a product that's two parts and they haven't read the instructions and measured things properly, and it's oh man, it shits me to tears.
Speaker 2:You see all these stories and stuff on instagram and like smashing up decks and they haven't got any deck protector on the joyce. Or like you're saying not priming the ends of timber. Or like I see lots of builders on instagram doing photos, the claddingding, installs and stuff, and I'll just shake my head and like I could jump on all of them and tell them what they're not doing correctly. But I'm not that type of person. But like it's that simple At the end of the day, every single thing that a tradie or a builder installs on site, we should. And these days, with your phones and your iPads, it's just a matter of jumping online, looking up a spec sheet. Like yeah, it's our um, it's our responsibility to make sure that everything on site is getting installed as per manufacturer specifications. Like and, as you say, like even right down to the fixings. Like you have to make sure you're using the correct fixings for the product. Like yeah, like how many times the uh clay materials getting shot on with a framing gun? It's a mess.
Speaker 1:Yeah, even just like nail spacing or anything it's like yeah, it's wild.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is, that's the perfect word for it. It is wild, and I think, with a lot of people that you see doing this stuff, they don't know that they're doing it wrong and, as you said, there's a lot of contractors out there that that's just the way they've been taught, so they're just like we're taught by people that are doing it wrong, so they just continue to do it wrong, and most builders aren't putting in enough supervision, so they just let the happen on site. The painter comes along, paints over everything, happy days, client moves in and, yeah, before you know it, there's issues with things. But yeah, the industry's got a lot of work to do, hasn't it?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, it definitely does. But, like I, you know, I think, like what you said there, you know, like the builder's not there supervising, I think like a big thing that I believe is, like you know to, to a huge extent, the trades need to be responsible for themselves. You know, like, if you're doing it, you should know what the best practice is for that particular thing. You know it's your responsibility to know that you know the substrate's prepared correctly, if you're fixing to something, that you're using the right adhesive, that you're using the right fixings.
Speaker 1:You know, and I think too many people run with the attitude of like oh well, someone else didn't tell me or someone else didn't set me up. No, like, we're the professionals and we need to act professionally and we need to be the ones on the front foot, regardless of, you know, whether you're a builder, a plasterer, a painter, a tile or whatever. Like, you know you need to be going in there saying, hey, this is how it has to be. And you know, standing up for yourself and making sure that you're doing your job correctly, regardless of you know what's around you well, everyone's trying to save a dollar, mate, because they haven't tried the jobs correctly to begin with.
Speaker 2:Like we, um, we definitely like myself, my supervisor, my whole team we're very fortunate like we've got an incredible, incredible bunch of contractors now. But, um, and a lot of them bring to our attention that something that might need to be done differently or or a new product that's coming out and all those types of things. But I think the shitty, like one of the worst things with our industry and a lot of the trades know it is that currently, as it stands, it's the builder's responsibility. Yeah, they like so many of them, like I've been told so many stories of trades that, uh, clients or even um industry bodies have tried to get back to fix work and they just laugh it's like dry, like it's black and white. It's all the builder's responsibility. Um, like, those guys definitely need a kick in the ass and shouldn't be in the industry, but reality is they are in the industry.
Speaker 2:And yeah, I think builders, a lot of builders, need to take the supervision a lot more seriously. Like you can't just rely on trades turning up and expect that they're doing the right thing, and especially when a lot of trades these days have grown pretty substantial businesses themselves so that, like, the business owner might know all the ins and outs and spaces and all those types of things, but they send a new crew to a site and and they stuff something up Like there's just, there's so much going on, like, yeah. So for me, supervision is definitely a key to reducing the amount of problems but also mitigating a lot of the risk. Yeah, yeah definitely.
Speaker 1:Well, that's likeating a lot of the risk. Yeah, yeah, definitely, well, that's like you know, we run pretty lean. I only really do one or two projects at a time. You know we do all the carpentry in-house, or you know a huge chunk of it in-house. So I'm on site a lot. You know, like there's very rarely. There are occasions where and I make sure, like when and when a trade starts like I'm there to go over absolutely anything, make myself available.
Speaker 1:That you know, and it's like it's taken me years to build a relationship with trades, now that you know, they know if, if they come across something and they raise it with me like I will bend over backwards to get it sorted as quick as possible so that they're not put out in any way, shape or form. You know, and it's awesome to have that relationship now, but it does take a long time and I think that's what catches a lot of people out as well. You know, like chopping and changing trades and you know whatever else. Sometimes it's hard for me, like because I don't do many projects. You know, like, say, a bricklayer. You know like I've got a really good relationship with this bricklayer but he might do one job for me every two years, you know. But I actually rang him for my next project and I last job that he did for me. He's like I'm I'm getting out of it and I rang him and I'm like, please tell me you're still doing it and he thankfully is.
Speaker 1:But yeah like, because I don't do many projects, like I'm, you know, often having to find new trades and sort of start that you know build that trust and that relationship from from scratch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Relationships are huge, aren't they? Like it's? I think it's one of the most important parts of running a building business. You've got to have a great relationship with your trades and respect them and talk to them and pay them properly and all those types of things. And I think when you do look after them well, even though you do do a few jobs a year, they're going to be there when you need them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. And, like you know, with the types of jobs that I'm doing, I need the input from the trades as we're going through design development because I can't know everything, and so, yeah, it's grouse having that relationship, especially with the integral ones like electrician. All my jobs now are on big properties like acreage, the next one's like completely off grid, you know. So you need people that are willing to, you know, put in their own research, to to help me, um, you know, which in turn helps the client and it helps the whole job run, run smoothly, you know, and without having that strong relationship, like, I wouldn't be able to do any of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's important and, like a lot of trades a lot of builders do, don't they? They just again, like everything comes back to pricing, like if you don't know your numbers, don't know your data, you're not pricing your jobs accurately. You're constantly going to just do whatever you can to try and get a little bit more cash in the door. And a lot of reality is that for a lot of builders, that is chopping and changing trades all the time trying to get a cheaper price, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, Well, yeah, like changing suppliers or you know, like, definitely, like there's a big learning curve build in my parents' house because you know, I had a couple of mates that owner built and I was like, how much did you just, you know, pay to owner build?
Speaker 1:And they're like, oh yeah, you know this much and I thought, okay, we'll add. You know, I think I added a hundred grand on and I was like that should be plenty and I like obviously did it with like no margin or anything like that, you know, but yeah, ended up costing a hell of a lot more and like I tracked my time and everything. So from there I was like, oh shit, all these things that I didn't consider, you know, tasks that I hadn't really had to worry about before because it was never on me. Like you know, the delivery truck came one night and craned two pallets of weatherboards over the front gate onto a sloped driveway and just took off. So it's, we spent like a whole day just picking up this pile of bloody weatherboards strewn all over the driveway and stacking them neatly so we could even do anything.
Speaker 1:You know like I, I never accounted for days like that's one day on a on a 12 month build. You know, like that probably happens to you 10 times. You know all that stuff I never, I never accounted for. And yeah, obviously, like looking at my parents job, you know, through a magnifying glass, I was like man, there's so many elements of a build that you just don't, you just don't think are even are even there. And so, thankfully, the one job that I, you know, did my balls on or whatever, was my parents house and not for someone else oh, mate, I could give you a lot of lessons in that one like first one straight off the bat.
Speaker 2:Like, yeah, friends, look, yeah, as harsh as it sounds, friends and family don't get special deals. Like, you're running a business, you got to be profitable, but, um, I talk a lot about this because I think it like when you do come from the, the apprentice, and then you work your way up to a trade and then even when you become a builder like something that I've, um, done a lot of reflection on and I now use it when I'm teaching people anything, so I'd live like build. Like when you're, when you take that transition, you become the builder, you're on site and you're doing the work. So if, if things come up, um, or if you've been a supervisor for someone, like if you're on site, you're doing a bit of carpentry work and, as you say, a delivery comes and it's got to be moved, you just get in and do it. Or your trades come to site and they need some information, or you're helping them out with some space, or you're you're doing some set out with them, like you just get it done, but then, as, as your business grows, those tasks that you just did and like.
Speaker 2:Reality is that builders oh all builders are just taking it, taking the little bit of money that's left over the end of the job and calling it theirs.
Speaker 2:That's, that's their, that's their profit, that's their, their salary, for their business, because they're not tracking all that type of stuff. And so when you have that transition and you, the business grows a little bit and you might be spending a lot more time in the office and you have either a supervisor or a lead carpenter or just a carpentry team on site doing those tasks, now, instead of you just being there and if something's needed you doing it, you're actually paying people to do that. So all of a sudden, instead of you just taking that little bit that's left over at the end of the job, you've got carpenters or suvo's on site, possibly costing you whatever 40, 50, 60, 70 bucks an hour. It can add up to be a lot and it's nothing. To get to the end of a six or eight month job and you've done your ass 10, 20, 30, 000 because now you've had to pay someone else to do those tasks that in the past you were doing for nothing. So there's a lot of expensive lessons in there when you start working for yourself.
Speaker 1:That's a bullet I very luckily dodged or unluckily dodged. So just after I finished building my parents' house, I had a head-on motorbike crash in the bush and broke both my arms, and that brought my career to a grinding halt. I didn't work for six months at all and then it took, you know, probably another six months after that to be able to do much at all. But during that time, after the accident, I was actually pricing this, this current hepcrete build um, and you know, I was mentored, you know, by a couple other builder mates down here in melbourne and it forced me to price that job like I wasn't going to do anything. Because I actually couldn't do anything. I was flat stick wipe on my ass. You know, if that hadn't have happened, I probably would be sitting here telling you that I'm doing my balls on this job.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, that's definitely another way of having a look at it. But yeah, in reality, that is how every builder should be pricing every job, especially as your business grows, because as your business grows, your your time will become less and less on site. So you, you do. You have to price every single job as if you're not there and you're paying other people to do every task, including the supervision yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So anyway, tough lesson, but yeah.
Speaker 2:So, mate, where's what's driving there? I'm keen to find what's driving your passion, like in when we're doing zara's course together. Um, and I actually I want to get them off you again, like I'm at a point now where we want to go ahead and buy the uh, buy the moisture meter, and uh, I can't remember what it was you had. You sent me a message. I was a link to something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I got yeah like a thermal imaging camera and, yeah, moisture and humidity sensors and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I'm ready to go like, if you can send me those links again, we're gonna, we're gonna buy them. But like, what made you get that interested in this type of stuff that you went and bought those things because they're not cheap?
Speaker 1:nah, um, I just really, I just really take my responsibility seriously. Yeah, you know what I mean. I just you know. Nothing pisses me off more than paying someone to do something and they don't do it properly and they're supposed to be the professional.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, and so that's just how I conduct myself as the builder and, like you know, like I get fairly anxious or whatever, and I guess that feeds a lot of my passion, or that's what channels a lot of my energy into doing stuff, because I, you know, like I go home at night and I think what's going to happen if mold grows in this wall and I get a phone call in seven years time.
Speaker 2:Like you know what I mean, like I'm, I'm addicted to learning. Now, like the reality is that we can't learn if we don't know what. I mean like I'm I'm addicted to learning. Now, like the reality is that we can't learn if we don't know. Hey. So like, yeah, I would imagine, by you having these tools and like I'm assuming the type of person you are when you finish your job, you're going around it with the infrared camera and you're checking everything, like that would be giving you data, wouldn't it like you can now change or adapt what you're doing on future builds from the information that you're constantly gathering from the checks you're doing during your current builds?
Speaker 1:yeah, 100, and like um, I had a rep from like caracol who do you know like tile glue, grout, whatever. They came out to my house yesterday, arvo, to drop some stuff off and run me through a couple of their products and, um, you know we were having a chat and he was saying, you know, like they're compiling a report on a job that's failed, where the builders used multiple different brands, all really good products on their own, and it's failed. The tiles have all fallen off the walls. And it actually turned out that the prep they were doing on the substrate wasn't correct and it was sucking all the moisture out of the glue and you ended up having like basically two dry surfaces touching each other and they weren't getting the adhesion. And I was like fucking hell, you know, and like all these little conversations that I've had with people over the last you know, few years now, it's like shit.
Speaker 1:I'm to make sure that the moisture content of my material is correct before I do something, because you know who wants to put thousands of dollars of tiles on a wall and it falls down when it's as simple as a thing of understanding the temperature of the room and the surface and the humidity. You know all these things that have an impact, and a lot of the time they might not have an impact, but the one time that they do, it's a bloody expensive mistake and it's like, you know, we don't have to add a hell of a lot into our day to go. You know obviously, yeah right, go spend, you know, a couple of thousand bucks on a. You know you don't even have to spend, spend a couple thousand bucks on a on a moisture meter.
Speaker 2:You know I think you do, mate, one of the things I learned. So at the same time I was doing zara's course, um, we took our live life, build members down, we did two um, hind forestry and the sawmills and everything. And I asked the question at the sawmill, like about the moisture and um, like what it should be on site before we plaster, because that's something I've sort of taken an interest in. You see, all the guys in the states like they, they moisture, test their framing before they line it and all those types of things. And yeah, the guy at home was telling me, like you, you need a good quality moisture. Um, he said a lot of the cheaper moisture meters. They can fluctuate plus or minus six. So like, if you're trying to get your timber to whatever, it needs to be eight, ten, twelve percent moisture and it's plus or minus six, it's.
Speaker 1:It can be giving you a completely wrong answer, but um, yeah, well, the one I use you can actually put in the species of timber yeah yeah yeah, no, that's sending the data on that mate.
Speaker 2:I want to grab one, but like it. It's like you said at the start, it's very we're very different to the states, aren't we in europe? Like they seem to be a long way ahead of us when it comes to this sort of stuff, like most other countries around the world of, including new zealand, like they've dealt with, like the leaky home syndrome and and the mold and all that sort of thing, like it seems to be something that's sort of only just now, like in the recent changes in the building code, like mold, like now, now they're obviously realizing like mold and buildings go hand in hand. Like bad building creates mold, so all bad building creates condensation. Like they're starting to link everything together. So I think, as builders, we've got to take it a lot more seriously, don't we?
Speaker 1:yeah, I mean, I don't know how that. You know, this is new information to you know whoever writes the building codes here in australia? Because you know, yeah, like you said, leaky building syndrome in new zealand. You know, and then you can go through almost every decade in the us there's been an issue that they've come across in building and gone shit. We shouldn't do that and these are issues that we do today. America realised it was something silly to do in 1980. How, if the internet and what's that 40-odd years?
Speaker 1:how have we not figured it out? We shouldn't be having any stuff ups here because we've let the whole rest of the world cock everything up. We should just be copying what works and not have a drama yeah, 100, do you?
Speaker 2:what's your view on like? I think a lot of what australia has to deal with is because we try and have one blanket set of rules and yet, like within australia we've got massive range of climate zones and yet houses are supposed to fit Like only in the recent changes they've made it like some states. I know Victoria is slightly different to some of the other states now, but how can you have houses that are supposed to perform to a certain level when we're all following the same building code, when you've got, like East Coast Australia, cairns, townsville, with high humidity and high temperatures all the time? You've got Tasmania that bloody, gets snow in December, like it's just crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's wild, like when you look at the US building code and how small it can be broken down to into like not just climate zones, but like geographical locations, because obviously they've got you know, hurricanes, tornadoes, all the rest of the nonsense we don't have to worry about. It's all tailored, even like some municipalities have their own set code for just there. And yeah, we've got, yeah, this huge expansive area with vastly different you know conditions and it's and it's all the same, it's yeah well it's.
Speaker 2:I also find amazing that most people out there would just this and go's all the same. Yeah Well, I also find it amazing that most people out there would just this, would go straight over the top of their head, like whatever, Like that's not my problem, but at the end of the day, it is our problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's it. And you know like my wife got real upset not long ago because a chick in her mother's group said I hope my kid never grows up to be a tradie. Um, you know like, yeah, my missus took a bit of offense to it and she said to me like you know what do I think of it and yeah, it used to bother me real bad, um, but you know like, obviously there's people like us and you know there's a ton of amazing people in the industry, but there's there's a lot of people that aren't amazing and they give the rest of us a bad rap. So it's like, yeah, if we want to be taken seriously, we all have to act, you know a certain way, and it can't just be like oh well, it's not my problem, I don't have to worry about it yeah, well, mate, like let's go, we'll move on to that now because, um, I know that's something you're passionate about and I think it ties in well.
Speaker 2:But like, obviously I'm on the whole reason behind this podcast and like we've got live life build now we train builders and all over australia, new zealand. But like I'm on a mission to create a new building industry and I think, from what I see, like with guys like yourself, like the amount of stuff on socials now where there is quality people that are passionate about it that are putting out all this advice, and yourself and Nook and is it MVH? A few of yous are teamed up now and you've got the Build Hive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, mark from MVH and then Matt Carlin and Dylan from Olwen Constructions, yeah, set up the Build Hive, which currently is just really an Instagram platform. Hive. Um, which currently is just really an instagram platform. Um, but yeah, we just wanted to create, you know, I I guess like a, a reference for people to go to um, you know a place where people could get sort of like a little bit more unbiased advice on stuff. You know, like across the five of us, like we actually went to mark's one of mark's jobs the other day, um, all five of us caught up there and you know it's crazy, walking around like five builders that all do essentially the same stuff, and you know we're walking through mark's job going, oh, you did that, like this and oh, that's like that you know, and, well, you know we're taking in things from each other and it's like, yeah, yeah, you sort of there's definitely more than one way to skin a cat.
Speaker 1:And you know, if you just sort of look at, yeah, like one avenue of content or whatever, you know you might not, you know, get exposure to, you know other ideas or whatever. And so we thought you know it'd be good if, like, the five of us got of us got together and sort of equally shared stuff on the page and sort of build up a bit of a community and then sort of use that platform same to try and inspire and push for some change in the industry. And you know, it's sort of like, definitely my opinion is, if we sit around and wait for someone to legislate the change, we're going to be waiting a real long time. But you know, having a platform and inspiring people to do better on their own accord is having a far quicker impact on the industry changing than you know any legislation change is going to make no 100 and that it's just.
Speaker 2:I think it's amazing, like my big thing is, builders need to talk to each other and like I get so many old blokes say to me like we talk, like we've talked, we've always talked, what are you talking about? But they have like realities that haven't like there's been. There might be a little bit of chit chat, but there's no deep diving, there's no sharing, like you say, details or someone posting something and then other people getting involved in commenting. Like the more like cooks in the kitchen, the better the outcome. I believe. Like, um, so what? What? Like with build hive, like what's the? What's the idea? You're going to share? Just, uh, details that you do on your jobs or and and like installations or what's? What's the overall plan for it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, like it'll probably be like a lot of tech stuff like that. Like you know details, you know little bits and pieces here and there. A couple of the other boys are, you know, well, you know definitely like Matty. He's not on the tools at all, so he's a lot more, you know, business orientated than you know guys like me and Jack who are, you know, still you know very much belt on builders. So he'll probably share a bit you know of, like what he does on the back end to you know, basically all the stuff that you know the few of us share amongst ourselves. Yeah, we just want to share it publicly. You know what I mean. And like a lot of us now are having open houses like I had one at the hemp house like, and I just made it exclusively for for trades and builders, you know, so we could have a deep dive into and I probably should nearly have another one when it's finished to tell people about all the fuck ups I've had. You know it's been a real learning curve, but you know yeah.
Speaker 2:As much as we laugh about that. That's how we learn. Yeah, 100%, if we don't share our experiences and what we've gone through because, let's face it, there's new products coming into the industry every bloody day. Now, like if we don't share our experience and our knowledge and what we've gained from every job we do, what's the point of it?
Speaker 1:yeah, but even outside of that, like I've had we've had an engineering issue at that hemp creek job and, um, you know like, when it all came to you know, since, like two weeks ago we worked it out, I was like what the hell do I do? Straight on the blower to you know another builder and they're like right, here's this construction lawyer, hit them up straight away. They'll make sure that you know, everything that you do in your process from here on out is 100% right by the contract. You know, like, if I didn't have that network right by the contract, you know, like, if I didn't have that network, but I'd probably still be stressed out of my eyeballs wondering what the hell do I do? Who do I turn to for information? It was only that, you know, the guy that I rang had been in a similar position, you know, in the last 12 months and had all that information on hand. Like it's this. The depth of what we need to know and understand as a builder is so wild.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know you need to have like a good network of people around. You know You're only going to get so much from a 30-second reel on Instagram or whatever you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that's the biggest thing with our Live, like Build builders. Now we had a live event on the weekend and it was a massive success. But that's the big thing we get told now, like it's as much as everything we've got in there the course, platform, systems, library everything we have is fantastic. It's a community. Like you've now got hundreds of builders. There's no judgment, there's no. Like it's just a safe environment. Like everyone's vulnerable. They talk about situations exactly like you're just talking about. Like we, everyone shares their knowledge, shares their experiences and everyone puts, gets input in, and that's how you get great outcomes and it's just like. I think it's better for the entire industry. But what probably excites me the most is it's better for all of our clients. Like, at the end of the day, our clients are going to be getting better products if we're all sharing information and and all striving to improve the quality of the jobs we do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%, and a way smoother process for them. I think the tide's definitely changing. Not just builders being professional, but you're starting to see now a lot of the trades actually running a proper business. You know what I mean. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:No, maybe we'll. Um, we'll start to wrap it up. Just one last thing I'd like to talk to you about, because obviously you it's something you'd be getting, I'd imagine, but so many people I talk to are afraid to follow their purpose or their passion, especially when it does come to things like sustainability and healthier homes and that type of thing. But, like I'm a big believer, like you, whatever you put out there, you're going to personally connect with the right types of clients. So have you found, by putting it out there on your socials, being passionate about what you do, educating people, that that you're now starting to attract clients that actually want what you're going to deliver them?
Speaker 1:yeah, definitely, so obviously. Yeah, like I had a period in my career where, you know, I was just working around numpties or whatever and I actually used to tee off quite a bit on instagram and have a good rant and a few people loved it. And, um, it's actually hamish from sanctum pulled me up one day and he's like, mate, like try and inspire people to be better. And, um, I used to then have to like run it past him before I put shit up and he's like, nah, you know, like focus on inspiring people to be better. And and I did, and you know like it's been amazing for you know, for a whole range of reasons. Um, and then, yeah, I just sort of, you know, definitely with projects now, like I say no to a fair chunk of stuff and, um, you know, like I don't have a website, I don't really have signage on anything. All my jobs are in the middle of nowhere, so no one's going to drive past anyways, um, so it's it's really like an organic.
Speaker 1:You know, the right people seem to be coming in now, which is bloody great. You know, it's like real nice to be working with other people who are passionate. And if people come to me and they want to do a project together or whatever and they don't seem passionate even trades if I hit trade up, you know, and they just seem like it's a job they do just to pay the bills, I'm just, I'm just not interested.
Speaker 2:And once you surround yourself by people of the same mindset, it yeah, it makes a massive difference yeah, well, you're only you and your business are only going to be ever as good as what you accept. So that's a good attitude to have. But, mate, we'll uh, we'll wrap it up. I really appreciate your time. It's been a cracking uh chat, that uh. I normally wrap it up by saying how can people get in touch with you? But you haven't got a bloody website. And if it's signage, like what?
Speaker 1:I only just got. I bloody had my socials hacked too a couple of weeks ago and I bloody lost them all and I only just got them back.
Speaker 2:So it's really just really just instagram actually just just touch on that quickly because that I saw your stories on that and it's actually made me pull my finger out and I'm actually going to contact the guys you tagged in your story up here in Brisbane that helped you out, just to see what we can do to be a bit safer. But can you just really quickly run us through that what happened?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I just used the same nonsense password for a lot of things and eventually the hackers got into my email and through my email they shut down my social media. If you ring the guys there, they'll give you a whole heap of stories about what the different hackers do once they get into all your stuff. But, yeah, it got onto those guys pretty quick and we sort of locked everything down and then it looked like I wasn't going to get my socials back. I actually started again and then, as a stroke of luck, you know, potentially one of the you know complaints or whatever we launched to Instagram about my accounts went through and they popped back up and then, yeah, back onto the cybersecurity mob and they were able to retrieve it for me, which was nice.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, big wake up call, I sort of just lived in ignorant bliss that you know it won't happen to me. I don't click on any links or do any of that nonsense, so I'll never get hacked. But yeah, they've got lots of ways of hacking you and it's actually really daunting when they you know like they give you a big report of, like, all the times that your data's been breached and what they've had access to and what they do with it. Yeah to and what they do with it. Yeah and um, yes yeah, anyway, it's all.
Speaker 2:It's all locked down now, it's all done and dusted. So what? Everyone? Uh, for anyone that wants to check out and see your stuff, it's just what.
Speaker 1:Stanford building on instagram yeah, just stanford build co on instagram, or I guess now it'd be good if everyone headed over to the build hive on instagram as well, check it, check us all out there. And yeah, that's, that's pretty much it. So what is this? Build hive or one word?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that build hive, or one word All right, awesome, we'll. We'll get Shay. You can put some links on the podcast when it goes out. But, mate, like I said, appreciate your time. It's been a crack and chat and yeah, thanks for having me mate. Are you ready to build smarter, live better and enjoy life? Then head over to livelikebuildcom forward slash elevate to get started.
Speaker 2:Everything discussed during the Level Up podcast with me, dwayne Pearce, is based solely on my own personal experiences and those experiences of my guests. The information, opinions and recommendations presented in this podcast are for general information only, and any reliance on the information provided in this podcast is done at your own risk. We recommend that you obtain your own professional advice in respect to the topics discussed during this podcast.