Level Up with Duayne Pearce
I take on the role of an authoritative voice that fearlessly communicates truths drawn directly from my lived experiences. With a genuine sense of ownership, my insights are free from any hidden agendas – they truly belong to the audience. My stories and journey add remarkable value, the key now lies in harnessing its power effectively to help others.
My purpose is to create a new residential building industry. My mission is to inspire unshakable self-confidence in my colleagues in the industry, empowering them to orchestrate prosperous, enduring, and lucrative businesses that bring exceptional projects to fruition for our clients.
My goal is to foster a deeper comprehension among clients about the identity and functions of builders, redefining their perceptions.
Level Up with Duayne Pearce
No Excuses, If You Want Something BAD Enough, Make It Happen.
Duayne chats with Grant Jarvis this week from Fortress Hire on diving in the deep end to start his own hire business.
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Live Life Build
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D Pearce Constructions
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I think financial pressure is one of the worst pressures that I've ever been through.
Speaker 2:G'day guys. Welcome back to another episode of Level Up. We are back in the shed this afternoon for another cracking episode. I'm really looking forward to this one. I think it's going to be a lot of energy. The young fellow that we've got for you today I'm really keen to dig in and see what he's got going on. He's only 27 years old. He's running and built up his own hire business. He was a carpenter. Well, he did his time as a carpenter, worked for a builder and then, yeah, took the leap out on his own and started a hire business and, from what I can see, he's kicking goals. But let's jump into it with Grant from Fortress High. How are you, mate? Thanks for having me. Yeah, definitely, mate. We know you're a little bit nervous, but that's all good, that's all good.
Speaker 2:No one's watching or listening to this, so it's all good, but no, I lie. We are Australia's number one construction podcast now, so not long almost at 200, 000 downloads across all our channels. So it's going really well. But, um, mate, I'm not sure where to start with you, like, how did you, how did you go from doing an apprenticeship, becoming a carpenter and then starting a higher business?
Speaker 1:so I finished my apprenticeship when I was 20 and, um then the builder I was working for did my apprenticeship with. He said you can go on an early rate for me if you want, or you can subcontract to me. And so I did that for two years. Right now I did that for five years, but because I ran them side by side for a bit and because the carpentry is what really funded the whole high company, yeah, and so where did the idea come from, like what made you want to get?
Speaker 1:so acro props. So I was doing these two houses side by side, one modern house, one Hamptons house and I had to measure up all steel posts and everything to get them made at the steel shop. And um, well, the builder was hiring acro props for moldy horror and um, it didn't tweak with me until that job. We were using them on every single job, two per job for the back, alfresco, front, porch and um, but this job required what? 10? And um, I said, how much do you rent the acro props like off moldy high for? And um, he's like oh, it's like ten dollars a week or something like that. Then tipped in my head and they were here for six weeks until the bricky got there yeah, ten dollars each ten ten, ten hundred dollars and I thought that's a little bit extra money on the side.
Speaker 1:I'm at the jobs anyway. Well, when you think that an AcroProp.
Speaker 2:What does an AcroProp cost you? $100. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I was like it'd be great, you know just a little side thing. And then I got carried away and I said who does your fence and how much is that you know? And um, so I had my main chibi, I had a little 2000 model two out of highlights and got some fencing and started doing the fencing jobs, putting on the highlights and and doing that. And um, I had a bit of money saved up from the contracting just putting it away. And I looked at toilets and I was like, nah, there's no money in that and kept doing the fencing, the atro props, and then I re-looked at the toilets and I went on alibabacom that's everything.
Speaker 2:You can fucking buy anything on there.
Speaker 1:Then I FaceTimed the factory in China and I was FaceTiming them and I made her name is Cherry, made her take me through the whole factory, held our bill, held our bow molded like, and put my order in for alababa. It's like 40 like two grand or something. And they all come flat packed and got them here and, yeah, started hiring them out to that builder. And then the second builder I got, I ordered another container and I had a meeting with him and I said what can I do to? You know he had 40 job sites. And I said, mate, if I give you free, if you pick them toilets up that you got on site right now, I I give you free. If you pick them toilets up that you've got on site right now, I'll give you free delivery, free pickup and two weeks free hire. Now the value to him he's got 40 job sites, two weeks free hire, you know, adds up for him. And he said, yeah, so I went around dropping them all off with a big trailer and, yeah, that's how it got started.
Speaker 2:It's unreal. So for anyone that's listening, grant does so it's Fortress High. You're in southeast Queensland. Yeah, you do.
Speaker 1:builder's fencing pool fencing Pool, fencing, timber, fencing, acro props, trestles, planks, british trestles. We also do skip bins. Skip bins are our biggest items. I don't own one skip bin, though. I use three different providers and we have good relationships and I can offer that service with a skip high there.
Speaker 2:So you basically like do you do a package Like this? Probably sounds like a funny question, but like so we have all of our own temporary fencing, we have all of our own pool fencing, we have all of our own brickies, scaffolding, trestles, planks and those types of things. But I would imagine for a builder that may be starting out or maybe doesn't have the storage or for whatever reason, like it's a pretty good like if they can come to someone like yourself and you don't package deal yeah, that's a pretty good setup.
Speaker 1:That's what I wanted to become and that's how I got into the skip bins. And then we also do 10 power poles too, yeah, for a third party provider, because, um, I wanted them to do one phone call, you know, and just book everything in yeah and um, it's been a massive blessing doing it like that, because that is sort of it doesn't lock them in it, just it, just it makes it easy for them so there's no.
Speaker 2:So there's no carpenter anymore.
Speaker 1:No, I gave that up july last year. Yeah right, so you've done it right up till now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so what you had? You were employing people to do this stuff and you were keeping the carpentry going to fund, to fund the growing of the business.
Speaker 1:So I was putting in all the money from the carpentry to the hire company because at the start there's so much capital it spends, yeah, and I just kept funding. I wouldn't have been able to do it without a carpentry. There is no way on earth you can't go out and get loans straight away with a fresh business to buy that capital expense.
Speaker 2:I think this is an awesome conversation because so many people I believe there's so many people in this world that have incredible ideas but they don't have the balls to do what you've done. Like people, so many people. It's all perception Like people would look at you and probably thought you had your higher business and had no idea that you're actually doing a second job of carpentry to build the business and be able to fund the business.
Speaker 1:Well, I'll put everything from the carpentry into that. Yeah. And then credit cards too. Yeah, I was using credit cards to because I could get the. I could get a big credit card with the carpentry and then I was using that that credit card to borrow horror equipment and people don't see them. Struggles and you stress it. Yeah, I don't think I don't care really what anyone says. I think financial pressure is one of the worst pressures like I've ever been through well, it's a pressure.
Speaker 2:It's a pressure you have to go through and experience to be able to have growth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you've the thing is you've got to learn from it. But yeah, like people ask me all the time like how have I done everything that we've done? And like, um, our software business, quoteas I've talked about it a lot but still a lot of people don't know we funded that from our building business to a point where we actually couldn't fund it anymore to get the growth we wanted. We sold our family home to build that. We didn't have to do that. Our building business was successful, so we didn't have to do that. Like our building business was successful, so we didn't have to take the risk of selling our family home, putting all the money into the software and doing that. But we did.
Speaker 1:You leveraged it and you believed in it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we did it, and it's the same thing what amelia and I've done with live life build, like we've only. Like people look at live life build and how successful that business is being. And again, it's all perception. Like amelia and I've only started taking a reasonable salary this year and that business is three and a half years old, like when you're starting a business or if you have a great or dear or you're passionate about something you've, you've got to have. I'm not sure what it is, but like so many people get put off because you have to do your day job from whatever hours and the other business or the other idea has to grow after hours. So people get put off by thinking they have to. Like their passion is a new idea and they want to do the new idea because they maybe don't like their day job. So they battle with it and then their idea ends up. They give up on it because they realize that they have to do their day job and it all gets too much. People give up way too early. Yeah.
Speaker 1:They do some for two, three years. It's not working out Like Fortress would have failed 20 times over financially if the carpentry wasn't there and if I wasn't doing both of them at the same time.
Speaker 1:yeah, and um you only fail when you give up 100 and what everyone gives up. So they do something. They do something for two, three years and it doesn't you know. They think it's not working and then they give up yeah right, and they start something else, and that goes for two or three years, 10 years down the line, they've got nothing.
Speaker 1:They keep pulling the pin you know, you just focus on one thing do it right and just keep going, keep pushing. If you really believe in it, like you, it will happen. Like you will make it happen, no one else is going to make it happen. Yeah, and there's well. I'm not there yet. I'm not there like there's still.
Speaker 1:There's still um gotta keep pushing but there's still what I was saying the shape before, like, um, cash flow is still tight because you're buying so much gear all the time, like you're always buying gear and I'm not gonna lie about that like you're always buying gear and cash flow is still tight, like I'm not gonna make out what I'm. Yeah, got money when I haven't like I'll just keep pushing.
Speaker 2:We're the same with a quote. He's software mate. Like we, I want it to be the best in the industry, and so you're reinvesting. Yeah, we're just constantly reinvesting. So we actually have not pulled a wage or profit from that business since it began, and that's seven or eight years yeah, um, and I got no problem saying that because, like I said, every cent that that business makes is just going back into redevelopment, keeping it going, making it better.
Speaker 1:If you pull a wage from that, though you're stunting the growth for that business. Yeah, so that's what I was doing with the carpentry. I wasn't drawing a wage, and then the carpentry was paying some of the guys' wages in the hire company, you know. And then it got to a stage where the focus went more from the carpentry to the hire company and guess what happened then? Vice versa. So the hire company was then paying some of the doctors. Then I'd build a stream me out with the carpentry. It was just a shit time there and, um, that was fun and that, and I was complimenting that. I kept the carpentry going for longer than what I needed to, because because I had my main chippy in there and I wanted to bring him across, but it wasn't the right time, yeah, but then I just realised that I was funding that wage anyway. But they were both complimenting each other.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it must be exciting. You obviously got to a point last year and you've canned the carpentry and now you're just full steam ahead on Fortress Hire 100%. But, mate, where's like in this podcast? Like I want to dig deep, like where does that come from? Like I want to give people real-life advice from a person that has personally done it, like you're only 27 years old. Like what, how have you got that mindset to do what you've done?
Speaker 1:look, I don't want to say this, yeah, but like I'll give a lot of credit to my brother yeah um, you mentioned your brother.
Speaker 2:Like that's one of the notes I had for you today. Like, yeah, that's a pretty big thing to have someone close by that you can look up to um, yeah, definitely so.
Speaker 1:He did his, his carpentry apprenticeship. I did part of my apprenticeship with him. Um, through that builder, they subbed me, subbed me to him and um, so he was working seven days a week when I was in school and just saving, saving, saving. He just kept saving, kept going and the work effort. And then when I started my apprenticeship, I went and did some work for a concreter and, um, nobody wants to work for this concrete. I just grumpy as I love him though, like he's just awesome and, um, he goes, you got a name to live up to and I was like you know, and, and that sort of gives you the motivation to push forward as well. I'm not saying I haven't got my own motivation, but when you've got people around you pushing forward and going for it, it rubs off on you and yeah, so I was having another conversation on the phone today, a guy reached out to me, wanted some advice, and I was talking to him about fear.
Speaker 2:Like, as humans, we only operate in love or fear. Yeah, like that's the only two ways. So it doesn't matter what else you think In reality, you're either operating from fear or you're operating from love. Yeah, what else do you think In reality? You're either operating from fear or you're operating from love. Yeah, and it's the fear that tends to hold 99% of people back. Yeah, because they let that fear control their decisions. So is that something you battle with or have you overcome Fear?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Every day. Every day, I feel like I could be way more forward than what I am if I wasn't like, if I wasn't scared to move forward.
Speaker 2:um what do you? What do you think? Where do you think the the fear comes from? Like is it? I know for a lot of people it's security, like a lot of people want the security of a, of a paycheck or having money in the bank and they're scared if they risk that they'll go back to how they grew up or how their parents were or any of those types of things. Is it the fear of losing the money?
Speaker 1:A little bit. Look, to be honest, my family is like they're all against debt, like completely against debt. Family is like they're all against debt, like completely against debt. My brother, my mum, my dad, those like, and they subconsciously they knock me down a little bit because they say you know, your whole company should be paying you by now. It should be. You know you should be doing well out of it. You're putting all this work, you're putting all this work, you're putting all this money and, um, yeah, some of them said sell it. Some of them, you know, and I just I I feel disrespected when they say that because, like, I'm hearing you makes me feel like shit it honestly makes me feel like shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah and um, because, just because it's something they don't believe in. You know that's something I believe in. I know it's going to work. I know what it's doing now per month. Um, it wouldn't be doing that if I didn't keep that. Because they say, why are you reinvesting all the money? Why I say, well, it wouldn't be at this stage now if I didn't reinvest it a year ago, two years ago. It wouldn't be doing what it's doing now. And then what's it going to be doing in two years time? Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:if I stop reinvesting it now, I'm only going to be doing what I'm doing now, potentially so what you're talking about now, like I want to get up, get up and give you a hug, mate. Like what you're doing now is what holds most people back. Yeah, it's fear of like, because I struggle with this a lot as well. I talk about it quite openly we're all bought up. I'm so passionate about this. I know I bang on a bit all the time, but I'll say it again I truly believe that 90, 95, even 99% of people on this planet are not living their life.
Speaker 2:Not at all, because of what you just said, because of the way we're brought up, the, the beliefs, religions, everything that gets discussed in our families growing up, and then when you do get to an age where you can go and work and run your own race and do your own thing, it's you do. You feel like you've got that constant battle of everyone's.
Speaker 1:You feel like the black sheep why, if you step out the yeah, the range what they believe in and it's what they. It's what they believe in, and my mom admitted it without even like knowing it. She said to me. She said oh, I'm just scared because, because I haven't done that before, yeah, and that's exactly why.
Speaker 2:And it's good like it's. It's good that family and friends worry about you yeah, but so many people let comments and outside influences from family, friends, even social media and shit, determine the outcome of their life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely. And this is no offense at all to anybody, but, like, if you take advice from certain people, like you look at their life and you evaluate that and you go all right, um, are they where I want to be?
Speaker 3:yeah, so, am I gonna take that you're in control of this podcast.
Speaker 2:mate, You're dropping bombs.
Speaker 3:I can tell you listen to the real Bradley. Yeah, I do.
Speaker 2:You're 100% on the money and like. I think the other part of that is like. I think everybody needs to be like everybody has a certain level of comfort. Yeah, needs to be like everybody has a certain level of comfort. Yeah, and so some people, some people might stress a lot about money, some might stress about working too many hours. Like everybody, everybody's different, but nine times out of ten like this is what we see in our, with our live life. Build members, um, because of all the stuff amelia and I teach them like um, when you, when people, get the right advice and the right community and the right documents and templates and processes and systems, you'll find that your comfort level rises. So the thing is like you will never, ever get to where you want to be if you continue to do what you're doing now the same, the same actions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you need to you need to surround yourself with people that are where you want to be or have done what you're wanting to do that's what I love about you, because you you on one of your videos you said you've almost been bankrupt three times.
Speaker 1:Right Right there. It shows you didn't give up. Right Right there. You've experienced certain aspects of building your business and failures, and you can then give that advice and save the failures for all these builders like you've made a success out of it you've been through the hard times, and you can then what you can save them, how many years? Well, that's I've.
Speaker 2:I've learned like and again, this is completely you cannot flip around more from the way that I was brought up. Yeah, like I was brought up if someone was doing well or had something nice or had what you wanted, like, oh fuck, what are they doing to get that? Why do they deserve that? Why haven't I got that, like all that sort of shit and and things weren't talked about? Yeah, whereas I am. So like so many people tell me I'm too honest, like I just tell shit how it is. Yeah, like I don't tell lies, I don't talk shit, like I just purely tell my experiences.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's what the aim is with this podcast. Yeah, and you're doing a really good job at it today, like, like I feel like the more honest people are and the more truth they tell about what they've been through, the more vulnerable you are. That just helps more people, because then people listening to this will be sitting there going holy shit, like that's my family or holy shit, that's what I think like well, that's it's.
Speaker 1:It's smart. I was speaking to show you about it before it's smoke and mirrors. You see people on instagram or wherever and you think they're killing it. And then you hear the back end of the story and it's like and no wonder some people don't go for it. It's because they see that they've been, so they think it's achievable. And because someone else is doing it, yeah, and then it's all smoke and mirrors and then and then there's so much noise, like especially now with social media.
Speaker 2:But I just feel, especially in the first quarter of 2024, I feel like there's a lot of noise, especially in, like the I don't know coaching, mentoring, tradies, builders type space, like you've got to have runs on the board. Yeah, like I feel there's a lot of people out there that have had a little bit of success, like they might have had one, two or three years. They've had done a couple of decent jobs, they've made a little bit of money and all of a sudden they feel like they can tell the world how to do things. And I struggle every day with imposter syndrome, like I think who the fuck am I to be having a podcast and having a training business and telling people?
Speaker 1:what I do. You don't feel like you're good enough, do you?
Speaker 2:yeah, but I I'm comfortable with it now because I'm not telling people what to do, I'm simply telling people my experience. Yeah, um, and I take my hat off to you because you, you're really breaking the mold. Like to be 27 years old and to be dealing with that imposter syndrome and the old, like we're talking before we started recording about stories you tell yourself like it's every day is a battle isn't Every single day.
Speaker 1:Every day, you feel like you're not good enough. When's it going to happen? You don't feel I don't celebrate any success because I don't feel I've achieved any.
Speaker 2:You've got to do that. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Because you're not where you want to be.
Speaker 2:I want you to keep going, but while you're on that, you have to celebrate, mate. One thing I definitely learned is it doesn't matter how big the win is. It could be that you fucking had a great day and you didn't feel tired, but you have to give yourself a pat on the back for every little win. Fuck mate, I don't even know 90% of your story.
Speaker 1:But every little win, and fuck me, I don't even know 90 of your story, but even from what you've told me today, I think you've had a lot of wins. I'll try and win the day every day. I just I'll focus on the day and I'll try and win the day. I'll try and get up early how do you win your day?
Speaker 2:what's your? What's your routine?
Speaker 1:so my routine is in the morning I wake up at around two o'clock holy shit. And um, I'd weigh myself. I'll take a photo of myself. This is all honesty. Take a photo of myself, I'll jump in the ice bath. I don't want to jump in there every day. I don't want to do. To be honest, a lot of people feel benefits from it. I don't really feel benefit from it. I feel guilty if I don't do it. So it's like more of a discipline thing. So that's what it is, but that's that's exactly what it is. I don't really feel benefit from it.
Speaker 2:I feel guilty if I don't do it. So it's like more of a discipline thing. So I that's what it is, but that's exactly what it is, I don't want to do it.
Speaker 1:When I first got that ice bath one Sunday night I went to bed and I had the worst anxiety about getting in the morning. I seen how icy it was. I was like I just kept thinking about it and the more you think about it you know. And yeah, anyway, the first time was like 30 seconds in there and then my missus did more than me the next day and I was like no, it would be better, and it was like that for a while anyway.
Speaker 1:So yeah, we. Um, I'll jump in the ice bath, I'll get out dry myself and in the garage I have my clothes ready the night before. Tear myself off, jump in my clothes, then I'll go make myself a coffee, then I'll make myself a coffee in a flask and then I'll go to the gym. No, I'll make my esti, like all my lunch and drinks. And esti because I'll pat my esti, because I don't know what I'm going to be doing that day. I don't know if a driver is going to call and sit and not rock up. I've had that many times before and I'm not. You know I have to jump in the truck, you know. So I always pack my SD, even if you know I'm working from my office. So just in case You're prepared.
Speaker 1:And then I go to the gym, I jump on the treadmill for half an hour to start off with and I'll go through on the fortress horror instagram and I'll like build his posts, stories and just engage, and then after that for 15 minutes, and then after that I'll do a fortress post. I'll go on the photo room app and I'll get a photo and I'll do the blue border and the fortress I looked at your mate.
Speaker 2:It's fucking very organized.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my captions aren't good, though who cares? I've run out of captions to say who cares?
Speaker 3:mate who cares as long as I'm doing it every day. That's what I mean.
Speaker 1:As long as I just do one every day, it's keeping it just momentum going. It's you. Yeah, and now I'll go train in the gym, yeah, after that, after that, and then you go to work and I feel like I'm yeah. Now I'm at the yard yard at 4, 30, 4 40, which is five minutes down the road, and then I'll turn all the trucks on, get them ready, make sure to put the phones on charge for the drivers and um yeah and then uh.
Speaker 2:So what's an average knockoff for you?
Speaker 1:anytime, like we could be at the yard till you know six, seven at night. You know, last year that's a promise I made to my, my partner last last year and the last year was I'm gonna try and get home a bit earlier from the yard because that was a bit earlier I was about six o'clock, five, six o'clock, but I was getting home like eight o'clock last year because fuck, so you're home at eight o'clock last year, because so you're home at eight o'clock and you're waking up at two o'clock I've only started the two o'clock and the last year really, but I was still getting up early yeah before that, going to the gym, yeah it's just gone earlier.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as I want to spend more time in the gym because, I still gotta be at the yard at 4.30 because driver's coming at 5.15.
Speaker 2:That is such an important lesson right there because, again, most people whinge that they don't have enough time. You've got to make the time. If you believe in something, you want to achieve something, you've got to do it. So that means you got to fucking get to bed earlier or you got to get up earlier.
Speaker 1:So I can't dictate my day because you know yourself, anything can happen in a day. Problems arise, things happen. One time I tried to go to the gym at like 3.30 in the afternoon before I was going back to the yard later that day, and I went to do like a weight. I had like five missed calls and then I had a call from a driver saying they're bolted and then I had to get Harvey's towing to go I'll try to pull him out myself and then I had to get Harvey's towing to come pull him out. Yeah, and the chain was flat. Nothing goes to plan in your day, like nothing goes directly to plan. So for builders, and tradies.
Speaker 2:So I'm the same as you on this. So if I, if I'm a little bit snowed under, I need to get more done, or I. So I've recently started going to a personal trainer, so I've got to get up, yeah an hour and a half earlier to do that yeah um. And so I think for all builders and tradies like, if you want to do personal development, you want to go to gym, you want to grow, you need to sacrifice some time.
Speaker 2:So my, my hardest thing is sleep like I have to force myself to be in bed around nine o'clock yeah, um, but the for me the early morning thing, exactly like you said for for any trades based business like, and especially you, like you'd be no different to a builder like you. You have shit on how many different builders sites so yeah, any. You could get phone calls from any single one of them or drive or whatever and shit can be a pear shape really quickly. So normally the only quiet time you can get like I get more done in the morning between four and six than I do in a whole day, yeah, a whole day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're putting out fires all day yeah, like once the day starts, there's a lot, there's always something to deal with. So, um, your phone's not going at that time yeah right, it's perfect, it's quiet time, you can smash it out. Your brain knows that no one's going to be trying to contact you and you just get shit done. Yeah, but that's what you got to do, isn't?
Speaker 1:it like that's what you like. People ask me why do I gym at that time? And it's like, like in my head I've got no other time to do it, because it won't go to plan. If I want to stick to something, go every single day. If I go once in the morning, once in the afternoon, afternoon, work comes first, I'm going to put off the gym and not go, or I might be too tired. Or if you do get time to finish early.
Speaker 2:You go home and spend it with your missus. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:So getting to that, I don't think that's talked about enough. My partner probably gets the worst of me being in business because she gets what's left. Like I said, coming home at 8 o'clock 7, 8 o'clock last year, you know she's at the top a lot, Not seeing me working on the weekends. And hats off to the partners really, and my partner definitely, because they put up with a lot. They don't have to yeah, 100.
Speaker 2:Well, mate, the building industry would fall over I say this all the time if it wasn't for the wise and partners. Yeah, we can't do what we do without their support, whether they work in the business or not.
Speaker 1:Like, that's something I wanted to ask you actually, um how is it working with your partner?
Speaker 2:Depends what day you ask me Do you find it brings you closer together.
Speaker 2:It could be what time of the day you ask me that? Yeah, that's true, mate. Look, I'm not going to lie. Camille and I definitely have our moments, and nine out of ten of their moments are driven by me, because it's taken a while like to learn boundaries, like just like we talked about before. Like her and I are different, I have way different stress levels to what she has. I deal with things very differently to what she has and vice versa. Um, but I think partners, like working with your wife or partner, is extremely rewarding.
Speaker 1:You're working towards the same goal.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So we do a lot of planning together. We have family goals and even personal goals that we know what each other is trying to achieve. But we can schedule Like we're huge on scheduling I talk about it all the time Like school holidays, long weekends, like we're big on family time, going to the farm and things.
Speaker 2:But because we work together, like we can make a decision Like if we're like, right, we want to have next Friday off because we want to go and do something, we know what we've got to get done in the business, if we've got to smash out a few hours on a sad day, or even if you've got to work a sunday, like the kids are at their grandparents or nan and pops, whatever we do, whatever it takes, but we can make those decisions together, yeah, um. Whereas if yeah, if camille was still had a corporate job, like I'd be like, hey, let's go on our way for a long weekend, like I've got it, I'm on top of everything, she'd be like, oh, I can't. I've got to work friday, yeah, um, I think there's a lot of rewards to it. But I, you learn a lot about each other working together. Yeah, and I've definitely had to take ownership of a lot and even even now, like there's definitely things, um, that I I don't know, like I don't know if we've given each other permission, but like we're, we're pretty blunt with each other now, like if I try to give Camille something to do or interrupt her or something, like she'll tell me where to jam it.
Speaker 2:Like and like we've, so we've had to learn. Like so we've actually this might sound funny like we, when we're in the office, we work. Like my office is beside her office, we and this is her like she's made this happen, whereas I'd walk into the office, I'd stand beside her, I'd sit down with her and I'd rattle off all this that I needed done or that needed following up or whatever, and we never knew if was done, or I never had anything to check off or anything. So now she's just on my back, like just email me, like you have to email me. So now, like the first thing I do every time I get back to the office or whenever I'm in the office, I just walk straight past her, go to my office and I send her lists and tasks and things and then she sends me back as they're done, completed it all. And we know Like it's awesome.
Speaker 2:So I think working with your partner can be incredibly rewarding, but you, you definitely need to. You need to respect each other. Yeah, you need to understand each other's boundaries. People to take advantage of their partners too oh, 100 and I I'll put my hand up. I used to, yeah, I just used to and look there's probably things that I still yeah take advantage of, because I just put my hand up and say, oh, I can't do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like, and especially when it comes to computers and office work, yeah, um, but yeah, mate, it's rewarding.
Speaker 1:I know, like one of your things was, your goals is to work your partner into your business I would love to like she is an absolute gun and she has a really good job now, um, but all right, she would be a gun and I'm just I didn't want. I see people's businesses and they have their partnerships and I didn't want Lord to bring it home and talk about at home. But what I've realized lately is she'd be done and look, sometimes I come home now with stress and it's not relatable, like I can't. I try to explain something and I can't, you can't, they don't know what you're talking about because they don't know your business. You know, but she was. But she was there when I opened my first container of torts from china like me and her I started building them.
Speaker 1:They're all flat pad. Yeah, um, she's been there the whole time, but it's like. It's like sharing something I want to share. I don't want it all for myself, I don't want it, you know, I want people to come along for the ride too yeah, there's a few things I to be really aware of, I feel, with this.
Speaker 2:so, um, that's another thing that like camille for a long time had to pull me up on, like like we'd finish in the office, um, and then, during cooking dinner or even after you know, watch tv or whatever, like I'd ask questions about jobs or be checking on things, and like she had to pull me up all the time Like talk to me tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Because it'd bring you down mentally, mentally wears you out, wouldn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's actually like her being really strict on me has been good because, like, basically, so we run an office from home. Now, like we had a like two-bedroom granny flat at the end of our house, like two bedroom granny flat at the end of our house. We've converted that into a really nice office, um, and basically, once we leave that office and we enter the house, it's done, it's done. Yeah, like very, very rare um that there's any discussion about work and um, the other thing is that, like camille, she'll just flat out ignore myself and in the supervisor.
Speaker 2:Now, like we, we know that her work hours are from nine, like so once she's dropped the kids off, uh, we know from 2, 30 to 3, 30 she's picking kids up, so, and so we respect that. Now, like there's no, we don't try and contact her in those hours, like that's her time doing stuff for the kids, whatever, like so I think you really have to set boundaries. Yeah, and her, her being really strict and pushing me on her what she needs, it's actually made me a lot better in the business as well, because now I know what I need to do to work around her boundaries. Yeah, um, but the most, the, the most important thing with having a partner in the business, and I think this will resonate with a lot of tradies and builders your partner has to get paid, definitely. You can't. No, definitely.
Speaker 2:So, many, but they have to be paid exactly or more than what you would have to pay somebody else. When Camille first come into the building business after our second child, she finished maternity leave, um, camille had been very successful in the corporate world, um, and that was back when we were running. Like this is shit 10 years ago. Um, like we at that time like I didn't understand the full business costs and overheads and all these types of things and like I was cheering like we thought we'd win more work because we had free labor, like I wouldn't need to pay an admin person. And number one, that was fucking horrible for the relationship because she felt undervalued, yeah or no value. And number two, it was horrible for her mental health because, like, how would you feel if you're sitting in a business all day, every day, dealing with all the shit and basically running?
Speaker 2:a business and not being rewarded for it yeah, um, so the the most important thing if you're thinking about bringing your partner is is you've got to figure out the finances of the business, work out all the overheads and make sure the business has the money in and she needs to get paid. Yeah, like and I hope you're doing this as well Like you, your partner, like anybody even though they're our businesses, we're directors, we run those businesses you have to get in the mindset that you and your partner are employees to the company. You get paid like an employee, you get treated like an employee, and then your company needs to make profit on top of that.
Speaker 1:I don't pay myself Like I spend on my credit card and I don't live. I was saying this to you. I'll go straight to the clearance rack at any shop we go to and.
Speaker 1:I'll have a diff voucher, say I still won't buy if it's not on clearance. You know what I mean. I don't try and go overboard at all. I know where I'm at in the business. I know I need to keep reinvesting. So what's your role in your business? The float, basically.
Speaker 1:So lately, my chibi has been with me for eight years now, seven years now, and come across the fortress and what I've learned, something so valuable in the last two weeks is he got back up to having a kid and I want him to take over more of the operations. Sort of because we've got four trucks on the road, got a fifth getting built. Sort of because we've got four trucks on the road, got a fifth getting built, and, um, I wanted him to take more ownership, look after the drivers, look after the yard more and, um, I wanted to focus on building and working on the business. I've got yeah, well, fortress has an, an admin full-time, does all the bookings. Builders still call me all the time. I just flick an email straight across to my admin.
Speaker 1:But what I learned in the last two weeks was I was micromanaging him and I feel like that was shutting him down, and there was one day I was doing cladding with my brother, I was helping him out and, um, he, the run was the, the there was. There was a run that day that he went and did and it was. It was finishing like 12. It finished at like 12 and I was like I was gonna ring him and say, yeah, this needs doing it, yeah, this, because I'm just scattered and I'm like this needs doing, this needs doing, this needs doing.
Speaker 1:And um, I was like you know what, I won't, I won't call him. He was there till 6 30 that night rearranging the yard doing his own thing. And, um, so the next day I did the same and didn't. I was like no, I won, I won't you know. Ever since then it's like he's taking it on himself and I've been saying to him like mate, this is like unreal, it's hard to let go as a business owner, oh, big time. But it shows that it's making him take ownership of it and him do what. You just got to have that trust.
Speaker 2:I guess yeah, yeah, letting go as a business owner because it's your baby. It's a hard thing to do, but that's been huge for my business as well. But it's getting to a point where you can trust your team enough to do it the same or better than you would do it. Yeah and yeah, it's unreal.
Speaker 1:I bet you felt unreal when you started realizing that I don't know myself, because, like you, you let go of something, like you're still there and um. Then I started to connect him in the admin and you know, um, chelsea, she, um, she asked me a question. I said I saban, you know he's at the yard, all that, and then they just thought I'm in a group message with him. I still see it, yeah, and um, it's great, they were both just communicating and I'm like sweet, you know I'm not getting involved it's's a valuable lesson.
Speaker 2:Eh yeah, I remember when I learned that as a business owner, you don't have to do everything. No, you just need to make sure everything gets done. But look, this is only my personal advice and just going off what you were just talking about then, or my personal opinion, but I believe, like as a business owner, no one's ever going to be as passionate about what you're doing as you are. So for the business to grow and to get new leads and like the best business is personal connections. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so, as a business owner, you want to be out there. You want to be spruiking about the business. You want to be connecting personally with people. So that is what you need to get your the role. You need to be spruiking about the business. You want to be connecting personally with people. So that is what you need to get your the role you need to be focusing on. And then other people can do the other tasks back end, um, but you yeah, you have to be playing. You've got to pay yourself a salary. Mate like you can't just be pulling money out of the business and, um, running off credit cards and things is that?
Speaker 1:is that um how you feel rewarded out of your business, do you feel like? Is that the reason behind it?
Speaker 2:No, why should you just get the scraps that are left over? Yeah, look, if you don't know your role that's exactly what my brother says to me.
Speaker 1:He says that to me all the time and he goes why are you even doing it if you're not benefiting out of it? And I say because I know what it's going to look like in five years time. I just want to keep reinvesting. He goes, and he said this to me last week. He said grant, you're gonna be in the same position in five or ten years time. And this is probably what I need advice from you on is because he goes, you're gonna be in the same position five, ten years down the line. I said what is that? And he goes say, if you buy six torts every week now he goes, you earn more money. You'll buy 20 torts In five years' time. You'll just keep buying 20 torts. And he goes, you'll be in the same position. He says when does it end? You can keep going until you're in Sydney, melbourne, and you'll keep going and keep buying and you'll still be in the same position.
Speaker 2:If you've got that same mindset, yeah, turnover means nothing if you're not making profit. No, but this is what I was talking about. You have to treat yourself as an employee to the business. There's absolutely no point running a business, taking all the stress and only taking the scraps that are left at the end of the day. So, um, like you need to do, like I I give, like what I give advice I give to builders is like you you need to.
Speaker 2:I say, track it for three to six months, like every day in a in a diary or journal. You need to write down every single task you do, yeah, and then from that list of tasks, you need to allocate time to that. And this is where, like most people that do this exercise, it's like holy shit, I'm doing that's why I got no time I'm doing 60, 80, 100 hours a week. I'm doing three jobs. So once you've done that and you've figured it out, then you need to figure out like, allocate those tasks. I say, put them in three categories ones that you you love doing, you do every day of the week, ones that you do but you're not really efficient at. And ones that you just can't stand doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because that'll help you identify where you need to hire people in the business and it'll also help you identify what you're really good at, what you enjoy doing, because ultimately, whatever you enjoy doing and what you're really good at is what's going to bring more value to the business and attract more business. So, but once you've done that, like you can't pay yourself a salary until you understand the role that you play in your business. So it's funny because when you run a business, you hire people, and when you hire people like, what are you looking for? You're looking to fill a role. So you, if you're looking for a truck driver, you want a truck driver that can do this, this, this and this. If you're looking for a forklift driver, you're looking for a fork driver can do this and this. Why, as a business owner, should you not have a role description?
Speaker 1:well it's. It's funny you say that at the start of this year I said to myself I'm going to jump in the truck myself because I had someone leave at the end of last year and I'm going to use their wage, what I was paying them, to pay off a truck. And um, I was. I was working every day in that truck, taking phone calls, everything like that, and I realised at the end of it like I paid off two trucks and a vacuum tank. That was my goal from January to March, and I realised after it how much time have I wasted in the last three months just driving this truck. What else could I have been doing?
Speaker 1:yeah, well, I didn't value my time 100% and that's not value that is the thing people.
Speaker 2:Well, when you are like, the number one excuse like ever since we've had our software and now that I have the training business, live Life Build the number one excuse from people that don't take action, that don't follow through, that don't put in effort is I don't have time. The only reason people don't have time is because they don't value their own time. And when you don't value your own time, you don't prioritize things properly. Yeah, and what you spend your time on is other people's priorities own time and when you don't value your own time, you don't prioritize things properly. Yeah, and what you spend your time on is other people's priorities.
Speaker 2:So you'll be spending all your time doing shit that maybe your employees should be doing, or maybe you could hire someone to do, or maybe the builders that you're hiring out are taking advantage of you do because you're not being strict enough with with your role. Yeah, um, it's like, seriously, for anyone that's listening to this tradie builder, anyone, anyone one of the most powerful things you can do for your business is is put in the time track all the tasks you do and really knuckle down and identify exactly what your role is. Or if, if you can't identify what your role is, I'd at least identify what you want your role to be. Yeah, and then from there, what I tell people is you need to. If you were to get hit by a bus tomorrow and could not work in your business anymore needs to run without you, doesn't know what?
Speaker 2:are you going to have to pay someone to do what you do?
Speaker 2:yeah, okay and that is what you should be paying yourself. Yeah, because, again, why? Why should you just take the scraps? Yeah, like, most reality is and it's like it took me 10, 12, 15 years to truly understand this, and it's the last 10 years is why I've been able to grow so much is because I'm really passionate about this stuff. Now, like, why should Like people get into whatever it is, having their own business? Whether you're a restaurant, cafe, doctor, it doesn't matter what trade or what business you're in. Yeah, you end up working for less than people that you employ, because you don't understand that you need to be paying yourself.
Speaker 1:Well, right now I've brought myself a job. Yeah, that doesn't pay me a poor paying job that doesn't pay me and that's reality.
Speaker 2:Most businesses are a poor paying job, like the people around you, the people that work for you, are earning more than what you earn. Yeah, the only difference is that and and I, I got stuck in this mindset for years, like I was like we had five, six, seven, eight $9 million turnover, yeah, and I was working for less than my carpenters were. Yeah, but in my head I thought I was killing it Like man, I'm turning over $8 million, I'm doing well million dollars.
Speaker 1:I'm doing well, and did you add up the hours you were working and then divide that back and work out your hourly rate and say if you were paying yourself just a small wage? But this is the thing I for me the first.
Speaker 2:Like I said, 10, 12, 15 years, I wasn't, I just took what was left. Well, I didn't even so this is the other stupid part. I didn't even take what was left. Well, I didn't even so this is the other stupid part. I didn't even take what was left. I was doing the same thing. You're probably doing the same thing 90% of businesses are doing. I was just spending the business's money. Yeah, if I needed something, I bought it, so I had no idea.
Speaker 1:So it was only you weren't on the forefront as per se. You were just you On the forefront as per say. You would just, you'd only get something if you needed it, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, a lot of the time I was again, I was just spending money that wasn't really mine. Yeah, I thought like the turnover was huge and it's. This subject is so difficult because the other side of this is so much. So you get phone like banks and things. They think your business is killing it because they see that all this money is going through your bank but they don't know what you're actually making.
Speaker 1:So your net profit right. So some I look at my net profit all the time and I look at why my net profit is different this month to last month. They might be fra so say, if you get the container fencing from china, that's a capital expense. Yeah, right, but then the freight comes into your profit and loss and I argue with it all the time. That should be part of the capital expense, but anyway, nonetheless it comes.
Speaker 2:It just depends how it gets categorized from your accounting side of you and then I have everything's automized.
Speaker 1:So your pool fencing revenue, your temporary fencing revenue, your skip bin revenue, your cost of sales, so it could be your cost of your skip bins, um, your waste disposal, and everything is categorized and itemized and you know that's the like, that, that is all the easy stuff like it's.
Speaker 2:It's the running cost and the overheads of the business where everyone goes wrong.
Speaker 1:So one month you might turn over less than last month, then your net profit might be more. So I'll try and work that out and look at it, because I looked at the P&L side by side. I looked at oh, pool fencing was $3,000 more this month, or toilet height was $2,000 less, or I had this. I'm not sure.
Speaker 2:Your business is very different to a building business, I would expect, but I think there'd be similar issues. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But, like I don't know, I'll try and. And everybody like, seriously, you got to get your own financial advice on this. This is just purely my opinion or my, yeah, lack of knowledge from where I've got to where I am. But, um, because, even so, back in the day, when I was running a shit show, yeah, which at the time I thought was fantastic, yeah and it looked fantastic I was driving around, like I was 24 years old, driving around a big f truck, paid cash for like 200 cash for a 28 foot boat, like I thought I was killing it, but all I was doing was pulling money out of business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the reality is you, you've, you've got to understand your running cost.
Speaker 2:So I don't know if this is a comparison or not, but let's just say, like, so all my onsite costs as a builder, all my materials to build the house, is basically your hire equipment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so then, on top of all that money to build that house, there's another pile of money to run the business, which is the same as you, like you've got to have a pile of money to run the business, which is the same as you, like you've got to have a pile of money to run your business. Yeah, so that's all your overheads and running costs and in that overheads and running costs should be your, your salary, like as a business owner. So for me, as a builder, like and this is what's really important to identify your role, actually this is really similar. The more important to identify your role. Actually this is really similar the more I'm thinking about this. So, like using a building example, if I was a builder and I, I started tracking my time and even this is a for tradies and everyone as well your weight should be incorporated in that build course hang on like, yeah, I'll get to that.
Speaker 2:So this is why you have to track your time and identify where you play your role. So for a trader or a builder point of view, like my example, I'm a builder, so I might track all my time. I might be spending a certain amount of time supervising jobs, so supervision is an onsite cost, yeah. I might then spend, say, smaller business. I might then spend 20 of my time on the tools, helping the carpenters, so that's an on-site cost, yeah. But then I might spend all the rest of my time doing project management, which is an overhead, because project management is all the organizing, the quoting, estimating, all that sort of thing. So you might find, if you track all your time, you might this is completely random numbers, but you might track your time for three months or whatever. The longer you do it the better, because data is everything. Data doesn't lie, yeah. But let's just say you track of three months and you find out that in an average week you drive the truck for a day, you install site fencing for a day, so that's an on-site cost. That's what you need to run. That's part of your business. But then you might spend three days in the office. Yeah so those days are overhead. Yeah so, and the overhead part is the most important part and it's the piece that most people forget.
Speaker 2:So what I was getting to before I said back in the day when I was running the shit show, pricing my jobs I was actually like I put a lot of time and effort into like I still miss things and got a few things wrong here and there, but overall the actual projects I was pricing really good. My problem was that I was just putting a markup on them of a certain percentage and thinking that was all good and it'll just. That can cover everything that it takes to run the business, and in reality that figure was three times less than what it needed to be. And people don't understand like running costs of a business can be anywhere from eight, nine, 10% up to 30 or 40%. It completely depends on how efficient your business is, how you operate.
Speaker 2:Do you have have a yard, do you have a shed, do you run out of home office? There's so many variables, so every overhead in every business will be completely different and that's why it's so important to spend the time and really nut it out. Um, but yeah, it's um, that's where that's ultimately where you make your money. Because if you're just hiring out fences and hiring out toilets and the money's coming into the business and you don't know what it's actually taking to run the business, you're no different to a builder that's doing the same thing and nine times out of ten. That's why you've got no cash flow. That's why you're not building up money. I'm not saying you have no cash flow.
Speaker 3:You sound like you're killing it, but that's why you got no cash flow that's why you're not building up money.
Speaker 2:Like I'm not saying you have no cash. Yeah, you might, um, you um sound like you're killing it, but that's perception. I'm not killing it. I'm not killing it. You're gonna be killing it after this podcast, because I'm gonna. I want every builder in southeast queensland to give you a call tomorrow, um, but look it's. The thing is like I got. I used to get really overwhelmed about this stuff, yeah, and then I'd hide in a corner and just make excuses that I was never taught this. I don't like, no one showed me. Reality is you run a business. You have to put time and effort into this stuff. So I think that you're here now. You've asked questions. That's the most important thing. Like hang around like-minded people, hang around other people in business, ask questions thing.
Speaker 1:Like hang around like-minded people hang around other people in business ask questions like well, I can say much self, that much time. Awesome from someone who's done it before. I haven't had a high business, as you said before. It's similar. So you, you you're extracting the information from someone who's already done it and I've had people say to me you know like, don't talk to your competition, all that stuff. There's that many horror companies that I talk to and bounce ideas off and get advice from them and you know what, they're not afraid to tell me anything about their business for-.
Speaker 2:But how do you know if they're telling you the truth? You don't really do you? I think it's really important for everyone to run their own race. Yeah. It's definitely awesome for people to reach out and talk to each other, but reality is you have to know your business. You've got to know your data, you've got to know your numbers, you've got to know your overheads.
Speaker 1:And that's why it's hard to get advice from people that you know their business, like, say, another high company. Their business might be completely different to yours or ran different to yours.
Speaker 2:And they might be just like you and they might not have a clue either.
Speaker 2:Something that I've really become aware of in the last probably six months is, like I used to say, like I used to tell this story, that back in the day I was trying to get advice, I knew there was better ways to do things, and I used to run into other builders at hardware and things and ask advice and they'd just say, fuck off, mate. That's the industry. Harden up, like deal with it. Yeah, and I've learned now from what I'm doing and the training business and the amount of builders that I talk to, for a lot of builders they don't like talking about things because they actually don't know like they're. They're great tradesmen, they're great builders but they might feel like when they're getting asked questions that holy shit, I don't actually know that, or they palm it off because it may, it highlights what they actually don't know. So it's a huge issue with again, it's not just our industry, it's all businesses. A lot of people running businesses just don't understand what they're doing yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's no one's fault. No, like you get into what you got into because you're passionate about it. I got into what I'm doing because I fucking love building. Yeah, like I didn't get into it because I wanted to know numbers and run a business.
Speaker 1:I got into it because I wanted to build shit and then that was off the back end of building stuff. You had to start learning everything you know now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and same as you. You're passionate about the hire. You're trying to help people out. Did you ever think you'd need to learn about business?
Speaker 1:no, there's so much on the back end that you don't even realize and it's just mind-boggling, honestly, like learning a better how it's run and I just got into it. One is give a good service to start off with, and that's how I developed, trying to offer all the items like the skip bins, the fencing, the toilets and doing like a package and try and give good service. And how can I give better service every single time? And then you start learning, developing off that. Look, sometimes I've taken hits too when a slip-in company's charged me a futile fee for something. But I don't believe in that futile fee and I won't pass that charge on to the builder and I'll lose the money there because there's so many items wrapped up on that builder's site Am I of 10, 20 sites and I just don't believe in that passing that on and I'll try and shelter it and give. I don't know. That's just. I don't know if I should be doing that.
Speaker 1:No, you know, it's your business mate, I know, but then I see some.
Speaker 2:I don't agree with it. There's two sides to that, but you, I think, like again.
Speaker 1:I used to get shits with this um and that's being passionate about it and wanting to give the good service and keep them and all that. But yeah, why not be? It's not the best financial decision. No, it's not you're losing money.
Speaker 2:But, um, I know a builder like when you get extra charges I used to get quite pissed off about someone. But then I'd like you'd try and have an argument with someone and then you'd take the time to read the contract you've signed. You're like, oh shit, they're actually entitled to sign me that. So these days I'm more about nothing's a quick tick and flick, like have a conversation, read your contracts, understand what's going on. And I'm sure in your contracts it says, like their contract it says that tolls will be passed on and all that type of thing.
Speaker 2:So, um, like I actually only just last week, like we got a heap of trucks running dirt off a few different sites at the moment and um, we'd been getting uh invoices. So generally when we hire trucks the invoices come through the same day or the next day. And um, sharon, my accounts manager, said to me oh, do you know what? Um, some of these invoices are a bit different. So on the one day we had four trucks and one of the trucks invoices was substantially higher than the other three. And it's funny because the day before my boys had rung me and said hey, you need to ring the hire company up because there's something going wrong here. Like the first truck's back for his fourth load and all the others haven't only just come back for their third.
Speaker 2:And um, I got on the phone and I'm ringing the hire company like, hey, you need to have a go at these drivers. Like what's going on? Like, um, they're all going to the same dump, blah, blah, blah. And um, they come back and said to me he goes oh, um, in our last update on our policies you've got an option to pay tolls or not. And I said, well, no one's asked me. And they said, yeah, well, that first truck, he's taking the toll road, so he's getting there quicker. The other guys are going around and avoiding the tolls. And I said, oh well, that's so. In the past I would have got the shits about that. But I was like, oh well, I should have read your paperwork.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you've taken ownership of that.
Speaker 2:Well.
Speaker 2:I've taken ownership of it. First I was a little bit annoyed that the invoice was dearer, but then I was like, oh well, that's sweet because even though it cost me, I think, $190 extra for the day for that truck, he ended up getting seven loads. The other guy's only got five. So the benefit for me like I should have asked the question and paid, got all the trucks to take the tolls, because I wouldn't have had to get them back the next day because if they had done seven, each, whatever, that is 28 loads. Instead we only got 15, 7, 22. The value was there yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. But, mate, what's your drive, what's your goal, what's pushing you along?
Speaker 1:That's changed in the last two years. The goals were material items. Um, as I've progressed, I'm starting to care less about the material items. For some reason, I still like what do you mean? Like example what's? Oh, just nice house on the canal and you know, nice cars and all that. And then my mindset is that is just shifted completely. I just still want nice things, don't get me wrong, but I want to feel financially free in a way and have the freedom. Um, I see you, you'll be on the freedom, go out on the weekends and stuff like that. Yeah, be more financially free and not worry financially Goes back to the. I don't want to be someone that's in a big house, got cars on lease, stressing about money. I would rather like had a one of those new mazda bt50s and I owned it for six months and I sold it. I bought a two-wheel drive, two-wheeler highlights and that's the best car I've ever had, but I've used it way more than what I would have. The avatar and who am I trying to keep up with?
Speaker 1:like, why do I you know, run your own race man, yeah, and I was like I'm comparing myself to people that don't need to be compare myself to. And yeah, don't get me wrong, I still want nice things. But yeah, I do want to be financially free and freedom to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you've got to, you've got to push hard and get to go to the next level and like, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter matter what we all think Like, everyone is judged on the amount of money you earn, and the more money you earn, the more freedom you have. But yeah, freedom is true success. Yeah, like. I know people that have got hundreds of millions of dollars and I know people that own their house, have a couple of nice cars and are fucking far more happier than the person with hundreds of millions of dollars yeah.
Speaker 2:So, look, I think it's finding out what makes you happy, isn't it?
Speaker 1:I do what. That's something else, too, that I struggle with. I'm never happy, never happy, and I struggle being present anywhere, anywhere. I'm always thinking about somebody else whenever I'm, you know, with my partner. I can't engage with friends because they haven't got the same, you know, vision or goals as me, and there's nothing wrong with that, but at all. But what? I'm thinking about something else. I can't go out drinking at the pub and get pissed. I don't enjoy it and I can't be present in the moment. I'm always thinking about something else Mentally. I think that wears me out a bit. Yeah, I would love to be present In saying that my mum's 60th was on the weekend.
Speaker 1:We went on a three-night cruise. On Friday afternoon it left, we went out to sea, we were back Monday morning at 6 o'clock and my phone was going on the Friday afternoon still, and then we ran out of reception and didn't buy Wi-Fi. I was like you know what, I'm not going to buy Wi-Fi and I didn't miss it. I was so happy without it, but I still wasn't present. I still. Everyone was drinking and everything like that. I had three beers and I had two Tobron cocktails the whole time.
Speaker 3:Oh man, I love them. It didn't even taste like alcohol.
Speaker 2:It was just delicious, you know like that is one thing I used to get stuck into when I was younger and all my mates used to think I was gay, but I've never heard of them until then. They're so good, they're so good. But like I'm hearing you with that too, like I, we talked a little bit before we got on, started recording like the adhd stuff. Like um, my wife tells me the same thing, like she tells me, that's why I can't put on weight like I eat like a horse, but my brain my brain just does not stop, like I feel like that way more.
Speaker 1:Do you journal? No, I started a couple of weeks ago. I started um writing down like four things I'm grateful, four or five things I'm grateful for over night time something like it's.
Speaker 2:That's really helped me. Yeah, get be more present, like so I have. I have journals in my truck. I have two on my desk in my office. I got one beside my bed like I at any time of the day, like I don't. I'm not like. I used to try and do it like every night before I went to bed and I'd do it here, there and everywhere, but now I just the reason I've got them everywhere. I do it when I, when it comes to me so when you feel grateful for something or I write all sorts of shit down, but it's really helped me.
Speaker 2:It's just like doing a big brain dump. Yeah, I write all sorts of shit down and that's I don't know.
Speaker 1:Just see how you go, you go through many emotions To bring that up and to write them down. Do you go through many emotions throughout the day, like all up and down.
Speaker 1:Oh, mate, heaps, yeah, that's exactly how I feel. My mind's always ticking, there's always stuff going on and that's why I got. I had the two-page per day diary and everyone was like, why are you using the diary? And I liked writing stuff down and ticking them off. You know what I'm doing. Had it sectioned out like Forteside, Jarvis Projects, Grant Jarvis and I was just I'd write everything down, tick them off, and I felt that was the only thing that helped me feel because, say, I have something to do and I'm thinking about that 10, 20 times throughout the day and I just keep coming in yeah but as soon as I wrote it down it's like it.
Speaker 1:before even coming to my head, I'd know it's written down because I've been thinking about it so much, because I didn't want to forget about that task and that helps so much like so much.
Speaker 2:What the hand does, the mind will follow, mate. I went to a Robert Kiyosaki thing the other week I don't know a couple of months ago now and he said that and I was like fuck, that's what I do.
Speaker 1:What about fainting about it so much? No, what your hand does, your mind follows, yeah okay.
Speaker 2:And that's been my thing for a long time, so I'm the same. So on top of all those other journals, I've got a diary. Yeah, every day my diary has, like, if something pops in my head, I write it down. If I gotta make a phone call, if I gotta tell the boys something, if I gotta check an email, I gotta respond to an email, like so generally there's there could be anything from a dozen to three dozen things in my diary, but for me I don't know what it is.
Speaker 2:But writing it down and then make going back, looking at it and being able to put a line through each item, highlight it and tick it, it just, yeah, I get to the end of the day. If I get to the end of my day or it's time for dinner or whatever, and I look at my diary and it's still got something that's not crossed through, I've got to do it. So, whether and it might have been that I had to call someone, but it might be late, so that means I'll have to send them an email, but it just makes me calm down for the night. And you feel achieved.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and so that's what the journaling does for me. So yeah, I've got scattered notes everywhere. It could be anything. It could be things that I want to buy. It could be things that I want to do. It could be holidays I I want to do with the kids. It could be a date night, like anything, like I just write shit down.
Speaker 1:Because I suppose, if you don't like sometimes I won't think about stuff or think to do something, you'll think about something in the moment or what you want to do, and then, because you're so busy all the time and thinking about other stuff, you don't even think back to that. You know, like as simple as like yeah, I'd love to take my missus on a date, but I simply just don't think about it. I might pop into my head or something, but I don't write it down, and then it doesn't happen because you don't, you haven't written it down, you haven't, you're not consciously thinking about it and yeah, that's my fault you know that's something I need, to get more on top of.
Speaker 2:So what does switch you off? There must be something that.
Speaker 1:Honestly, I haven't done it in about a year, but I say to my missus that this is the only thing that makes me settle. And it was going to the cinemas. I was having popcorn and. Maltesers and Pepsi Max sitting in the cinemas just watching the movie. I just felt at peace, that's not the only thing that's ever. I can't do it at home watching a movie.
Speaker 2:But you know like you know, that's just it's.
Speaker 3:You're telling yourself a story we talked about this before we started recording like you're.
Speaker 2:you are telling you're in your head, yeah, you're telling yourself that because you're at the cinema. It's okay, I can chill out, I can relax.
Speaker 1:That's what.
Speaker 2:The stories we tell ourselves, mate, hold us back from everything. They either make us calm, they make us nervous, they make us not achieve things.
Speaker 1:It's all stories. I feel like I've been kept behind a lot by the stories I've told myself. And also you tell yourself you have to be busy all the time or whatever. Like say you don't say christmas, holidays or something like that, and you know I might chip away and do some work throughout a two-week period. You might couple of hours here, couple of hours there and look back after that two weeks because you felt like you've worked the whole time. Then because you're doing hours each day working, and if I just planned ahead and I just took two days out of that, I could have got all of that done, or three days out of that. But no, it comes from the fact of you need to be busy, you need to be doing something is that because you feel guilty?
Speaker 2:yeah, I was gonna say do you feel guilty because guilty?
Speaker 1:every I can't have like a day off because I just I have to do something to do with work or where's.
Speaker 2:Why do you feel guilty?
Speaker 1:I don't know. I just feel like I'm not achieving anything. I suppose I don't feel like I've earned the day off.
Speaker 2:I don't yeah, I used to feel guilty if I wanted to go out to lunch with mates or whatever and the rest of my team was still working on site or whatever.
Speaker 1:Oh mate, I cannot during the work. I cannot do like I will feel guilty if people are working and I'm not working. If someone's say working a saturday and I'm not there like I'm not working, I'll feel guilt. Oh, I can't like settle, yeah. So yeah, that's wrong. That's wrong like what? Why are you getting into business?
Speaker 2:it's that that I still battle with that. Um, but I've learned that, like, at the end of the day, I'm the one that's done the late nights, the big hours and built the business to where it is. If, fuck, if I want to have a lunch or go out with some mates or finish early or have a day off, that's, I'm allowed to do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and again, it's it's, it's a story is that the perception of you think that, um, how they're looking at you, that's that, that's what I struggle with. It's like, what are they thinking about if I'm, you know like, yeah, I used to.
Speaker 2:I used to think that they're going to be on site going fuck he, who's he think he is? It's all right for him. He's finishing early. Yeah, like I've put in the time, I've built the business, I've taken all the risks, so, um. But another thing that has really helped me with that is I really encourage my whole team to do the same. If their wife or partner or kids have got something on, like, take half a day off. I take a whole day off, like we all work for, and take yeah, it's got to be given take, but do you?
Speaker 2:feel like that that is just a story. Yeah, it is just a story that we're telling ourselves in our head, like Friday lunchtime.
Speaker 1:I was nervous leading up to that going away and I was like no it's my mum's you know, 60th, you know there's like 18 of her friends gone. I was like no yeah.
Speaker 2:Were you nervous about going away or nervous about spending the weekend with 18 60-year-olds? A bit of both.
Speaker 1:They were all in the casino. Two o'clock in the morning I was in bed. Yeah, I was nervous up to that. You know, is he going to be all right without me? I was like it's one day, it's not even one day, it's half a day, you know, and um, saving it all covered at the yard, and that just built my trust with him even more. And you don't get that trust if you don't let it go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I suppose um yeah, oh, mate, I I take my hat off to you because you like this is all the stuff that business owners need to talk about. Yeah, like, because we all deal with the same shit and yeah, a lot of it is. If anyone hasn't heard my podcast, I do with Dr Jo Lukens yet go and check it out. But we'll go and check her books out. She's just released a new one, actually, but like, it's just, we tell ourselves this shit, like, and you just got to try and yeah, you just got to switch it off and change.
Speaker 2:Well, just change the story. Joe talks a lot about, even just the words.
Speaker 1:You did, yeah, that I was listening to that and it was like yet you know, I can't do that. Yet you know, and um, that's a big thing, yeah, um, because you're stopping yourself in the track straight away by saying you can't do something, you don't want to.
Speaker 1:Some people just don't want to do something yeah it's not that, yeah, that's, they're not interested in it yeah do you feel like a lot of people suffer from analyst paralysis, of like, say, consuming that much information but you can get so much information from everywhere and like it stunts you because you don't know what everyone's telling you different say with business or anything like that, or you know the right way to do things. It might be you know um. You know I'll see you um. Listen to grant cardone. You know like he could have a certain way of doing something, like um. You know taking equity out of houses and doing and everyone has the right way of doing stuff and whatnot. And you get all of this information and you end up doing nothing because you're taking it, you're absorbing it. You don't know what the right way is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because, well, I think that was my problem for a long time, probably been only the last five, six years. Um, I've changed that, but I think there's a few few parts of that like I, I've got incredible value out of grant cadone, yeah, and I know lots of people that can't stand him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um I guess it's funny when he gets all right, not not told. I just love his passion. I love his passion and look after.
Speaker 2:camille and I went to 10X Growth Con in 2020 in Vegas and he is an incredible person and I definitely thank him, like I've had a lot of success because of him.
Speaker 1:He only started when he was like 35 too, like really hit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hit in there, didn't he, yeah, the real Brad Lee, um, real, the real bradley like I. I something that I've learned, mate, is, like you, you have to listen to people that you connect with. Yeah, um, so like, um, like, we'll add an example like a lot, a lot of people like um, even shay, like a lot of people, get a lot out of gary v I I just haven't been able to connect with him. And even Tony Robbins I don't know why I've got a little bit from him, but I think the most important thing is you just have to find someone that you connect with, someone that works for you, and you don't have to take it all in. I listen to shitloads of Audible books now because I've realized, like changing my mindset, to like, oh shit, that was a 16 hour book and it was rubbish. Now it's like oh man, that was a 16 hour book and shit, that one chapter was awesome, it could be one sentence.
Speaker 1:You got something out of it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I just I take in what I feel I can make work for me. Yeah, I think so many people put pressure on themselves, thinking like, yes, they might listen to Grant Cano and go. I have to do that, like that's what I want to do.
Speaker 2:I'm going to do that yeah look, I connect with what I feel comfortable and what I think that I can achieve. Um, and I think the other big thing that has really worked well for me is like I don't take things in easily, mate, so like, seriously, I might hear something and it might click a little bit and then I'll press the fucking rewind button and I'll listen to it again and I might do it again, like you might take five times, but each time I take a little bit more of it in. I'm like, fuck, that's yeah, I'm gonna do that. Or I do what we talked about before. I'll pull over on the side of the road like, oh, and generally I'll get to the next this, wherever I can pull over, I'll just pull over and I'll write in my journal. It might be be a sentence, might be a saying, could be a quote, could be some like anything that's going to provide more value than the time it took you to pull over and take the time. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, because you might forget about it after that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think you've just got to. Writing shit down has definitely changed my life. Like I go, I used to be the person and I I give people shit about this now, but I shouldn't, because it was me like I've always gone to seminars, gone to functions, gone to things, and up until five, six years ago, I'd just go along, sit in the audience, I wouldn't take any notes and I'd be the guy in the audience going, yep, I'm gonna do all this. Yep, I'm gonna do all this, gonna implement that. Yep, that's awesome. Um, and then a week later, a month later, whatever it is, I'd be cut like, oh, that was a waste of money, I got nothing out of that, but you didn't implement any of the. I didn't do anything. Whereas now, mate, I go to a seminar now and, like the one recently I've done with JT Fox, like a two-day event, I filled two notepads, like they gave you a notepad. I completely filled that up, and then I had a journal in my bloody backpack. I half filled that up.
Speaker 1:Did you note down what you resonated with, what you took in and what um you found value out of?
Speaker 2:I wrote down everything that I thought I could implement. All that, I that, I um, all that. I just resonated with yeah, like and it wasn't everything he was saying, and it was other people there as well, but that's what I since I've heard Robert say it I just it's exactly what I do, like what the hand does. The mind will follow and it's so true, like what you write down, like me writing something down, I remember it, yeah.
Speaker 2:I could listen to the same thing a hundred fucking times and you could ask me a question about it and I wouldn't be able to tell you yeah, and that's what. That's what I was like at school. At school didn't write shit down, sat in the back of the room, gave people shit, ignored the teachers and learned nothing. If I had a road shit then I would have probably learned sailing.
Speaker 1:Do you think people are too impatient in business? Yeah, I think that was my problem for a long time. How were you impatient? Did you just want your goals now? Did you think it should come quicker? Yeah, did you not realize how much work had to go into it.
Speaker 2:Yep, yeah all of the above, mate, all the above and just like you touched on before, like I just and man, when I was your age, like there wasn't even social media and I'm not even that old, but, um, I just saw other builders, I was striving to be like other builders and do a particular type of work and work for particular architects, and so I, just in my mind, I was always unsatisfied because I always thought I should have been better and I should have gotten places faster and I should have had more money and I should be able to buy this and I should be able to that. And why can't I have the big house? Like it takes time you got to build it.
Speaker 1:Andy Fusela, that's how I connected with you. I think you reshared one of his stories and you talked about resonating with people, and that's someone I resonate with and you're going to see him.
Speaker 2:He's coming here soon. We're going to, is he? Uh, yeah, I think so. Oh, no, no, no, sorry, bedros.
Speaker 1:Yeah, bedros is coming, yeah and andy talks about aggressive patience in business. So be patient in knowing it's gonna take. It doesn't happen over, not doesn't happen in two years, but but you've got to be aggressive in the pursuit of it. So, like every single day, you've got to be just hammering it what it's gonna happen tomorrow, yeah, but be patient in the fact that you it's gonna take time, yeah. Well, that's kept me going, because I compare myself to people that are 10, 15 years down the line than me and it makes me feel like shit because you're comparing and then you listen to things like that and it sort of brings you back down and you want to know you're on the right track.
Speaker 2:Exactly what you just said worked really well for me. But also another big turning point in my life, in my business, and definitely my happiness was just realizing like, like, fuck it, like I'm, like I'm, I've woken up today, I'm breathing, I'm healthy. Be content with what I've got. I will get what I want, but it's not going to be today. I've got to keep pushing. I've got to get to that next level. I've got to Keep putting in the work. Yeah.
Speaker 2:One thing that I'm 100% committed to now I'm not taking my foot off the gas. My foot is on the gas all the time. Um, but it's being strategic about it, it's scheduling, it's planning, it's having systems and processes. Um, like I get I couldn't even tell you like I get 500 more done every day now than I did five years ago, 10 years ago, and you feel less stressed. But I'm less stressed and I've got more free time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you still feel guilty with that free time?
Speaker 2:Occasionally yeah, it depends what's happening. Like I felt guilty this afternoon, so like I've just come, this afternoon I had a um, a luncheon with some mates that I went to everest with six years ago and I felt guilty because it's raining and my guys were on site pouring concrete and I was like fuck I and so I was late, like I struggled to leave that, because I'm like fuck they're, they're here, they're in the mud, they're getting wet, like I need to be doing this shit. Yeah, um, but yeah, that's. I think every business owner is going to be like that at some point, but 100 definitely, um, but mate, look, we'll, uh, we'll wrap it up. I seriously I could sit here all night and talk to you. I think you're um, I think you're a great young fella, I think you've got a good head on your shoulders. You're definitely determined, like to be where you are yeah yeah, but look um for people listening.
Speaker 2:Reach out um fortress high, check them out. If you're in southeast queensland, bloody, give them a, give them a buzz um, we'll look after you yeah, um I'm gonna talk to you off air, mate, about, uh, your numbers and stuff. But, um, mate, I really appreciate your vulnerability and how open you've been today. Um, I guarantee the listeners have got a lot out of it.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, take my hat off to you mate, thanks for having me on, and I was so nervous to come on and I'm actually happy with myself that I did come on and to be uncomfortable, you know. And I was nervous to come on, and that's just another win, you know, to myself, because, yeah, I'm an introvert. I didn't see myself doing it, to be honest.
Speaker 2:I still don't believe I'm fucking doing this podcast. Really. Yeah, it's yeah. You just got to be yourself and get it out.
Speaker 1:No one cares that much though. Do they Like? Do you think people are going to tear and make fun of you and laugh or whatever? They don't really care that much you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not sure, mate, but again we're going to crank up, we're going to keep going all night. But I can't remember when it was, what trip it was, but the first book I ever, I didn't even finish reading it. I was going to say read, but I think we're coming back from Sydney family trip. It's it's got to be a while ago now and, um, my wife in the duty-free shop where it was it was a subtle art of not giving a fuck, yeah, and I started reading it on the plane. It's the first book in my life that I've ever just started and actually gotten through a bit of it. Anyway, as soon as we were back off the plane, like it went on the shelf and I bought it on audible and smashed it out. But that, that is why I do everything I do now because, yeah, like who gives a fuck?
Speaker 3:what other people think. Yeah, that is true, that's true, 100.
Speaker 1:Run your own race, don't care about other people and they're pushing their own insecurities onto you, what they don't want to do, or they their worries, their fears.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're and they're just going to push that onto you, what they don't want to do or they can't see themselves. Their worries, their fears.
Speaker 1:Their worries? Yeah, and they're just going to push that onto you and a lot of people don't do things because of that reason of other people pushing their opinions and insecurities onto them and they feel like they can't do stuff. Yeah, and I battle with that every day, 100%. But sometimes you've got to shut it off and just whatever, don't care, run your own race mate, run your own race.
Speaker 2:Well look, I really hope you keep running your own race. I really wish you a world of success, mate. I think you're. I'm going to keep an eye on you. I want to see where you get to because I think you're going to go a long way. Like I said, I really appreciate your vulnerability and your coming on today and look for anyone that's listening. I am on a fucking mission to create a new building industry. So if you know other builders, you know tradies, you know people like Grant here, share this podcast, comment, like do everything you can to get this podcast out so we can continue to be Australiaralia's number one construction podcast. Uh, this has been an absolute cracker, mate.
Speaker 1:I enjoyed it yeah, I love what you're doing. We'll see you on the next one are you ready to build smarter, live better and enjoy life?
Speaker 2:then head over to live like buildcom forward, slash, elevate to get started everything discussed during the level up podcast with me, duane pierce, is based solely on my own personal experiences and those experiences of my guests. The information, opinions and recommendations presented in this podcast are for general information only, and any reliance on the information provided in this podcast is done at your own risk. We recommend that you obtain your own professional advice in respect to the topics discussed during this podcast.