Level Up with Duayne Pearce
I take on the role of an authoritative voice that fearlessly communicates truths drawn directly from my lived experiences. With a genuine sense of ownership, my insights are free from any hidden agendas – they truly belong to the audience. My stories and journey add remarkable value, the key now lies in harnessing its power effectively to help others.
My purpose is to create a new residential building industry. My mission is to inspire unshakable self-confidence in my colleagues in the industry, empowering them to orchestrate prosperous, enduring, and lucrative businesses that bring exceptional projects to fruition for our clients.
My goal is to foster a deeper comprehension among clients about the identity and functions of builders, redefining their perceptions.
Level Up with Duayne Pearce
Overcoming Defeat to Chase My Dreams in the Building Industry.
If you're a custom residential builder looking to build smarter, live better and enjoy life then head over to "Live Life Build" now for more info...
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On our tour of Tasmania it was was a privilege to sit down with Luke Davies, an award-winning builder, the founder of Davies Design & Construction and Align Architecture & Interiors.
Not many architecture companies are founded by a builder which makes this chat even more special.
check out Duayne's other projects here...
QuoteEaze
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D Pearce Constructions
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Head over to Duayne's website here for other podcasts, merch and more...
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I'd always, you know, had that sort of inkling that I wanted to run my own business.
Speaker 2:I think that's something that a lot of people overlook.
Speaker 1:That was sort of the main thing holding me back at that point.
Speaker 2:I think a really important lesson is that you'll always work your way back.
Speaker 1:Looks like a big number, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:Whatever your hand does, your mind will follow.
Speaker 1:This year is going to be huge for AI. We have a system for creating systems.
Speaker 2:G'day guys. Welcome back to another episode of A Level Up. We are still down here in Tassie. We've got an absolute cracking one coming up for you right now. I'm really looking forward to this conversation. The builder we've got coming up for you now actually has his own design multiple awards. Huge, big welcome to Luke. Luke, can we go back to your history and how you got in?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I've always lived in Tassie and grew up on farms. I was 14, we lived in Huzzahs, sort of a share farm over the place. So yeah, just always loved building. I was trying to make things better you know the leaky windows and build myself a little workshop in the back, lean-to shed and muck around fixing.
Speaker 2:I think you talked about what you wanted was more nails.
Speaker 1:Yeah, built this big tea tree house. It was like three long and three stories high and there were the tomahawk and the hammer and a couple of mates and yeah, just wanted more sort of four inch, five inch nails.
Speaker 2:It's cool isn't it Like true passion? Isn't it Like when you I think we're very rare, very early age, and it's just, I think it comes from my great-grandfather Stories that I had him making things, I'm not sure, but when it's in your blood you just Don't you Like it drives you. It drives me, yeah, and I love to um you know, work hard as well, like milk and cow.
Speaker 1:You go to school and when you get home and on the tractor and working weekends and um, you just have to use your common sense to fix stuff yeah you're out over the back of the farm and the motorbike gets bogged or the gate's broken and you're only like a young teenager and you're learning to fix these things and resolve these problems and all those skills you sort of build up. They stay with you and you still use all that sort of stuff today, Going through Scouts, and the motto is always be prepared it was a big part of my childhood as well.
Speaker 2:Watching your video, mate, it was almost like I was watching myself. I was the same way, like I wasn't our farmer. My mum's family had farms and then I was in the scouts and, yeah, there's lots of those. There's lots of those early things you learn that you, that flow through your whole career. Hey, when you, when you put them into practice. But there's always a solution for everything, isn't there?
Speaker 2:yeah and um. But so how did you like? Obviously you went through, you did your apprenticeship, I think, like you went into furniture making or something, didn't you?
Speaker 1:yes, I couldn't get an apprenticeship. When I left school applied to heaps of places for a carpentry apprenticeship and then the next pathway was to there was a furniture like a TAFE course, yeah, sort of here in Launceston where we're doing the podcast, so that was an hour from home, and I went in done that for a few months and then got offered a traineeship as a joiner and an apprenticeship as a builder. Yeah, right, but the apprenticeship as a builder was back in our hometown of Sheffield. Yeah, so I moved back up there, live with my nan and, yeah, started my apprenticeship and, I suppose, set the roots back in the family home again and eventually my parents moved back there as well and been there ever since.
Speaker 2:Yeah, awesome mate. So where's that from here?
Speaker 1:So it's an hour's drive, yeah, yeah, back it's half hour in from Devonport where the ferry comes in at yeah, nice backdrop, nice mountain rolling in the background and most people go through there. If you're going up to Cradle Mountain, yeah, I think 1600 people population. Yeah, right up to cradle mountain, yeah, I think 1600 people population. Um, and yeah, we've been one of the tassies most respected in there. Yeah, people come to there to see us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, if you're listening to this and you haven't checked out um luke's stuff before, go and check it out. It's davies constructions, but you also. You also do design as well, which we'll get into a bit more, but yeah how did you like? So when did you make the transition from like well, how did you go to do your apprenticeship, subcontract carpenter and then work your way into a builder like?
Speaker 1:yeah, so, uh, I did my apprenticeship, that you know. It took the four years and I worked for my boss for three years. Um, so it was only me and him when I started and we grew the I think it was about 10 of us yeah when we left.
Speaker 1:So I was pretty much running jobs in my third year and we did everything as well. So we do a lot of sub-trade work and we do all types of work concrete renos, new builds, sheds, you know, whatever we could. So I've got a really sort of wide range of experience and skills.
Speaker 2:Was he doing similar work to what you're doing now?
Speaker 1:Yeah, he did do a couple of really nice homes, yeah, but we do all sorts of stuff yeah.
Speaker 2:And then, what made you take the leap to have a crack on your own?
Speaker 1:I'd always, you know, had that sort of inkling that I wanted to run my own business. And I'd spoken to him a couple of times about doing something together and he didn't didn't have the business set up to do that. And yeah, one of my mates just called up one day and said, I've just snatched my, snatched my job and I'm going at work for myself. And I thought, oh well, you know, it's probably, I could probably do the same thing and we could go and do some stuff together. And, um, yeah, I just I just went, I said to him well, you know, I want to go to subcontracting. And I kept working for him for a while and on then, as soon as people heard that I was out by myself, I had like three houses of people knocking on my door because I had a good reputation, sort of, inside his company as doing good quality work and a hard worker.
Speaker 2:Yeah, people can pick up on skills and attitude and all that sort of thing, isn't it? Because that's very similar. Like, I did the same. Like, finished my apprenticeship, I actually went and worked for my old boy for a bit and then the developer that he was working for Painting said, oh, you're a chippy. And, like most people, heard my story and I started doing that and that's how I grew from there. But like, yeah, because people, I built a good reputation about the quality carpentry work I was doing and I was able to run a big team. People just started like, hey, you want to build my house? Oh, you want to build my townhouse. Like the work, just come in. So I think that's something that a lot of people overlook. Like they, they think that because they're not a builder yet or they haven't achieved something yet, that people aren't watching. But like, people are always watching what you're doing, aren't they? Yeah?
Speaker 1:yeah, so that I suppose, yeah, doing that it made it easier to start, you know, start my own business. And yeah, um, I suppose going back a bit motorbike crash. So I was sitting at home with nothing to do and I I'd already done my cert four and I applied for my accreditation. So I was working for my previous boss with an accreditation for probably 12 months as well, so I was ready to go. When I finally made the commitment, I was sort of hanging around to help him and the guys pretty much it was good mates and got on really well together. So that was sort of the main thing holding me back at that point.
Speaker 2:And you just hit the ground running Thought.
Speaker 1:I knew lots. Yeah, thought I knew lots and hit the ground running and turned out that, yeah, I still had a lot to learn about both building houses and running a business.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So how long? Like I said in the intro, you've got a similar story to me again, like you had to sell the family home. How long into business did you get into trouble and and realize you had to cut, cut your losses and start again yeah.
Speaker 1:So my property journey. When I was 18 I bought a block and you develop that over a year and then sold it again and made 100 grand. I remember you know, going into the pub and there's an 80, you know you wouldn't use your card in the pub, you'd get cash out and I was going to cash out this up the street and I had 102 grand in the bank like clear, no debt. It's yeah, I was either 19 or 20. Yeah, yeah. So then I used that money to buy a block, built my first house, sold and bought another for that and started to build the next house. So when I started my business I was in the second house I built and me and my wife done a lot of the stuff. We'd done everything plastered it and concrete and tiles and roof and joinery and nothing.
Speaker 1:That makes it, when you're that invested in it, yeah, so it's like we'd invested all this time and effort and weekends and everything into it. And then it was probably three years into my business journey where we just had heaps of trouble with cash flow. Again, we were doing good quality jobs and we were starting to win a few awards for our work, but the cash flow was really struggling and I think I had the house for sale for 12 months by the time that I knew that I needed to sell the house, like I was hanging on to it and then decided to sell it and then by the time I sold it. It was just a massive struggle and a big journey.
Speaker 2:Well, it's a hard situation, isn't it? Like again, very similar situation. One of my biggest mistakes in life was holding on to things for too long. Yeah, Like when you know things aren't right, you've just got to make that call, and I think a really important lesson is that you'll always work your way back. The sooner you cut your losses, use the money, pay people off, get out of debt and learn from your mistakes and move on, the quicker you'll get back to where you were.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a super hard time. Luckily, around that time I got into personal media. I started to really open my eyes up to how we can choose to reset. We like again to reset and we can choose how we want to feel and we can choose how we react to the situation.
Speaker 2:So Like looking back now. What do you think caused those cash flow problems? Was it like choosing the wrong clients? Was it not knowing your numbers?
Speaker 1:Yeah, not so much. The wrong clients probably just not tracking anything. You know I'd quit a job and you wouldn't know. You know if you made money or not till well, after it's finished and you're only running off how much money's in the bank, you've got one bank account with all the money in it, so it was like yeah, you just don't know, you don't know if you're making money on a job or not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, especially when the jobs start to get a bit bigger and you just think putting morgues on um is the answer like you get. The first thing people ask you when you're a builder like oh, how many guys you got now, how many guys you got now? That's like the measurement of you know your success pretty much. It's not you know how much profit are you making or how much free time have you got? You know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's far more measures to success than how many people you have in your team, and I see that now. I see a lot of people on social media that have these huge names and like I just look at the area that they're struggling and like I know we'll get in. I really want to get into it with you about systems and processes because I know you're big on it, but reality is that nine times out of ten, if you've got a business that's got systems and processes, you can do the same amount of work with a third of the team. But most people just think the only solution is to keep hiring people to try and solve the problems. But in actual fact you're costing yourself more money because obviously that's increasing your cost. You're not charging any more for the jobs and you're just digging yourself a deeper hole.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's the hole I was in with putting on more guys not knowing any of my numbers. Just really green to business.
Speaker 2:So was it? Can we dive into this a bit? Because I think this is where a lot of people go wrong, and I think three to five years seems to be that magic number. That's where most people start to get into trouble, because you start out, you get a few jobs in the door. You have to get those jobs completed, so that might be 6, 12, 18 months or whatever, and then in that time you picked up a few more jobs.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, normally it takes that, that three to five year period, until you start to get in a situation you're like holy shit, like my cash, like the cash flow is tight, I'm not making the money I thought I'm going to make. Why? Why is there no money left in the bank? And then, like one thing I'm really, uh, I really want this podcast to do is help break that cycle, and so people just need to. If people can hit the ground running, um, it's what we're doing. Live life, build like numbers. Is your number, like you have to your numbers? And so numbers. Was the quoting of the, the labor and materials that you think you might have not have right, or was it knowing the actual how much was taking to run your business?
Speaker 1:yeah, it's, it was everything. So I was just doing quotes on a. I've got a sheet like a, just a bit of paper. I just go down, do the bill of quantities, roll it all out. The first couple I done. I just like I do it. I'd just go down, do the bill of quantities, write it all out. The first couple I'd done. I just like I'd do it and I just I thought 10% was the number that you add on at the end, which covers everything.
Speaker 1:The whole industry does. Yeah, so you know I was doing that and you know you'd progress payments or set up you know we had cash. And then you know you've got there's no metric or no way to see. There's no, there's no gauge or indicator to how your business is running, apart from in your bank. Yeah, you don't know. You don't have purchase orders, you're not tracking budgets, um, so you've only got the money in your bank to and you know maybe a bit of intuition or something going on in your head to to see if you're making money or not.
Speaker 1:And then you've got multiple jobs running yeah so you know, some days you're on top of the world thing and you're doing really well and some days you're like holy shit. You know, yeah, I can't. How am I going to buy groceries and how am I going to pay the pay? The guys?
Speaker 2:where do you think that 10 come from?
Speaker 1:it's been something that I'd heard people talk about. Yeah, and you know, looking back, you'd think you'd be a little bit smarter and you'd work out your business costs and everything. But, um, I think you know just the back of an envelope type of stuff. And when it's only you to start with, yeah, when you think, oh, yeah, 10 you know I've got my sort of time in here as well then another 10 is going to be going to be pretty good and you're focusing on a job, a specific job, to solve all your financial problems, not like an overall set of jobs or a business plan. So you think, and then you get into the phase I'm going to win the next job and that's going to get me out of trouble.
Speaker 2:Not realising that you're actually, if you do make money on the next job, it's not even going to cover what you're behind.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, you get in that phase. And then the phase I got in was I needed the next job, so bad to cover the one. Before you know again you're just going in at a you know you might be pricing against someone else or whatever, and you just end up in this cycle.
Speaker 2:And then you don't have cash. You don't have cash. That 10% is such a shit number. Well, it really frustrates me because I, like, I was the same, like I did exactly as I got in. I was pricing most of the materials and labour reasonably accurate Well, for the time, accurately but my thing was also on top of that I didn't have. It's why we built Quarties. We have a fully detailed list of categories and items. You buy Quarties, you've got a list of category items. You work through that list. You might not need to put a cost or an item beside it, but it just makes you reference something.
Speaker 2:The biggest mistakes were because I had no template or no list. I would just work through the standard things. I remember one job I completely missed structural steel. It was like a $ 000 cost and I was like, fuck, like I, I should know that a job has structural steel in it, but because I had no template, no system or process around my quoting, I was literally just had pulling out pieces of paper and going through on each new. Each job made a new list and yeah, there's lots of scenarios where I'm meetings but, like the tempest thing, I think it's a really hard one because I firmly believe our industry does not understand what it takes to run or operate a building business. Like we know now from all of our data in live life build that the average custom building business takes between 18 and 24 percent just to cover their running cost.
Speaker 2:That obviously fluctuates depending on the size of the team and business and all that but that that's an average yeah and on top of that you've you've got to put your company profit where, but like you think about the documents we use in our industry, like our contracts and things like a lot of the defaults like I forget the wording, but like it'll say where you have margin and stuff in the contract If nothing's stated 15% or if nothing's stated 20%. You think of our Live Life Build data 18% to 24%, like if you're using that default setting, you're possibly not even covering your running cost, let alone making profit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. No, I agree, I can't remember where that 10% come from, but a lot of people reference it and use it. Yeah, it's talked about all the time.
Speaker 2:I remember being at industry events doing my licensing and even after my licensing and people being up in front of me telling the group that work out your costs, put 10% on, put 15% on. So when you start pricing jobs like this this is what I did like we ended up with pretty big homes in our first year 800 000, 1.2 million and so you, you price it up, you put that 10 on, you're like holy shit.
Speaker 1:120 000 looks like a big number, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:like oh man, I do for an a year. I'm I'm lucky, and so I got in that mindset that I thought that that was my money. But then obviously, if you're not, obviously if you're not quoting things properly from the beginning and you're not knowing what your costs are, and you start to spend 120 thousand dollars before you've got it, yeah, you can get in a hole very quickly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's a disservice to everyone you know, to yourself and your family and your team and your clients. Yeah, you know, if you're not charging the right for a job, you can't. You know you can't deliver the quality or the product that they're expecting either. So just getting all that down and you know, I've done the same thing with a spreadsheet. I think I missed some roof trusses off and completely missed it off a job once and I was like, oh, how did that happen?
Speaker 1:so yeah, that's where you know having a good um, an asset or a checklist or a list to go through. It's only you know, a sheet of paper, but there's usually lots of time. That's going to make it and it can save you, you know like you tens of thousands or $37,000 just by getting that steel work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's like with our Quartez software. I think it's one of the biggest well, it's a big asset to that software is that it comes with a pre-configured list that covers everything from all your preliminary consultancy fees all the way through to your final builder's claim.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so when I was starting out, just getting cost codes and how an estimate should be laid out and yeah you know you spend tens and ten hours of a night just trying to work it out.
Speaker 1:A proper estimate when there's I started from scratch, I didn't get any, got my previous employer and there's no one talking on instagram and there was no network of anybody just alone alone in your alone in your you know, yeah, in the kitchen or the kitchen table or wherever, just trying to work out how to do it because all you see over social media is perception.
Speaker 2:Isn't it like everyone's driving around in new dual cabs and american pickup trucks and like building these flash homes and like no one's talking about the real? And? And I think it's a shame with stuff like that, and that's again that's why you're sitting here, it's why we're telling these stories to help people, because a lot of people out there on instagram that have especially builders that, on face value, look like they're killing it, uh, having the exact same problems that you and I've been through. So, um, what was the turning point, mate? Like what? When did you get to? Like? Obviously, selling your family home would have had some pretty big impacts on you and your family yes, I got rid of that, got rid of some debt.
Speaker 1:It didn't really solve, um, you know, I think we got a bit of cash out of it, but, um, so, yeah. So we did that, sold the house, moved in with um my wife's parents were traveling, so in their house for a bit and then we built another place which we're still renting at the moment, which is a story. Yeah, because we were supposed to be living in our house.
Speaker 1:We haven't even started building yet it's just a builder, it's just a building so that, yeah, the turning point only the, the mindset stuff and the learning more about personal development and then actually digging into not just learning how to build but to learn business. And that's when I started to look at systems and CSS and culture.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you invest in yourself now, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm always doing something personal development-wise. I think I've got like 430 audio books on my Audible account. Holy shit, I'm always doing something personally development wise. I think I've got like 430 audio books on my audible account and I'm always listening to podcasts.
Speaker 1:You know I travel around. You know I travel to events and do retreats and all that type of stuff. So it's like now that's that's some of the best growth I have in the business, moving myself from the business, letting the team sort of step up, do their thing, don't interrupt. I go away, come back with lots more clarity and ideas and energy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's a really important point. And look for everyone that's listening to this podcast and that has listened to all my podcasts if you haven't picked up by now that every guest that I have on that has worked their way out of trouble or that is being very successful has all spent time, money and energy on themselves. I think it's something like I know, I I don't know, I just wasn't brought up in a family that did that type of thing and it was very foreign for me. I didn't. And even though things would pop up or I'd get asked to events and I was interested in it, I was always like, oh, I can't afford it or I won't get anything out of it. Like I was always very negative towards it, but it's the biggest turning point in my life and I'm addicted to it now. Like, similar to yourself, like I just can't get enough of it. Would you agree that, like every dollar that you invest in yourself, you get 10 back?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Would you agree that, like every dollar that you invest in yourself, you get 10 back? Yeah, yeah, definitely, and that's where I get my sort of inspiration and motivation from. That's what's going in your ears changes your state. Whether it's a song that ramps you up or an awesome podcast, like what you do, or a good book, it just gets your mind in the right space, gets the juices flowing and and it really helps me, that's my little hack.
Speaker 2:Do you take notes? Do you journal and stuff? Yeah.
Speaker 1:I journal. I've got an app on my phone called Day One that I take photos of what's happening through the day and I journal that. I think I'm on like a 240-day streak or something at the moment. You know, because it tracks every day, that you do it. And then it's got a hand journal as well. I'm not consistent with it, but again, lots of personal development Guys will tell you that's the number one thing you know. Just journal it. It's super. Put your thoughts down, ask yourself if you can.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty big on it. I don't do it every single day and I don't know not even just so much journaling, but I write a lot of things down. Like my whole career. I've always had a diary or a journal or something that's with me every step of the day, like even on this trip. Now I've got three different notepads with me and at home I've got one on my desk, I've got one beside my bed, I've got one in my truck and it was funny because I went two weeks ago. I went to Robert.
Speaker 2:Keiwasaki, rich Dad, poor Dad, and it just clicked with me and what he's, the two big things he said for the day. But one was what, whatever your hand does, your mind will follow. And he just kept like he was pointing people out in the crowd and saying, why aren't you writing notes? Like, where's your notepad? Like, whatever your hand does, your mind will follow. And I was like man, that that's what works for me, like because I just know if I don't, if I try to remember something that goes in one ear and out the other.
Speaker 1:But yeah, if I write it down, I can surprise you what you write, sometimes too yeah, you might be thinking something and then when you actually start to write it in journal, you actually write down. You know what you're feeling or you write down what's happened and what you're not happy about and that's you know. I've just by journaling, is you know? Probably it's a reason I put people in charge of my business and I've hired a general manager, because I've been writing down all the things that I'm thinking and instead of just thinking it all the time, and it's in the back of your mind.
Speaker 2:It gives you clarity, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:You don't do it you, just you write it down. It gives you clarity. Actually, I've just written this down, you know, or why don't I do it? Yeah, it's pretty simple. So yeah, and one of the turning points, I suppose going back, was I read a book called Think and Grow Rich. It's just one of the original sort of self-development books. That was one of the first books I wrote and inside that was some activities. There was a phrase you would say, so I wrote that down. I'd read that when I was in this real bad spot of selling a house and I just did what the book said.
Speaker 1:A lot of people read books and if you just followed what that one person said in that book, you'd probably probably be successful. But yeah, that's you know. People just take those ideas. But if um, that's why I love books so much someone's distilled like 5, 10, 15, 20 years into something you can consume in it's 10 hours of audio and like people will hold back, like that's how I look at events and richard seminars and stuff.
Speaker 2:Now, like you can, you can get into someone like that was the same with robert the other weekend like he uh all up throughout the day he probably spoke for about three hours. Like you get to sit in front of someone, like for whatever it is 300 bucks, 1200 bucks, whatever it is and get to hear, like with him I think it was 48 years or something of investing and knowledge and like it's it's priceless, like the um. So when, when you're in that low point and you're realizing that things aren't going the way they need to go and you've got to sell the house and stuff, like it would have affected the mental health I'd imagine yeah, definitely that's again.
Speaker 1:You don't show it, though, um, I never just yeah learn ways to deal with it yeah and I suppose if I hadn't have got into personal development, who knows what would have happened yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So you've turned things around in a pretty big way, but like you're um predicted now, like you've set up now six different, yeah yeah, so we've got, um, I suppose, yeah, learn how to build houses really well, and now learning how to build business yeah, and is it both building or buying? Yeah, are all your businesses built around building?
Speaker 1:yep yeah, yeah, they've all got something to do with a problem that I've had as a construction company that I couldn't find a solution for. Yeah, so um tried using other companies and couldn't make it work properly, so I just went out and started it yeah.
Speaker 2:So what's your other businesses?
Speaker 1:So the main one is our design business called Align. We started doing design and construct stuff in the construction company for the simple reason that the plans were shit, that we'd get from other designers or architects and that we'd have no say over the quality of the design. And one of my aha moments were we won Dowson Australia for one of our houses and my general manager at the time. It was his house and he'd done a lot of the work on it himself and he wasn't a tradie, so some of the quality wasn't up to our standard but it was his own house so it didn't matter.
Speaker 1:But when you walk into that house, the design was awesome. You just got this wow feeling and it just blew the judge away and the images were awesome. So it just got me thinking that the more quality of doing awesome quirks around your architraves and all your joints, 100% spot on, it's got to do with the quality of the design as well. So I really went down that design sort of rabbit hole and then we hired designers and architects and then we created a company, had other builders asking us then to do designs and we're getting inquiries all over the state. Yeah, we, yeah, created this design company and now we?
Speaker 1:yeah, I suppose there's probably not many architecture companies that have been founded by a builder. Yeah, and our core focus is on giving the builders the information that they need on the plan set, because that's where 99% of the problems come from on the construction site. Definitely, because it's the point of communication between everybody.
Speaker 2:That's definitely a big issue, but I think the other side of that is there's no collaboration or communication. Yeah, Like architects are wanting to do their thing in their way and builders are wanting to do their thing in their way and builders want to do things their way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know you guys do your pack process. We do something called I'll turn it out a commercial, called ECI, early contract involvement, which is pretty much similar. So it's the architect, the builder and the client. We work together right from the very start. Yeah, go through the whole process. So a line set up to do that to to be an architecture firm that works with the builder tender or eci um through the whole process. So you, you're looking, you know it's all in the clients. We've got an agreement like this is the client's best interest and we'll work through this and yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:It's the only way to do business like. You've got to. Everyone's got to be on the same page and it's such a. It's a better business model for everyone. Like designers and architects aren't redrawing things a hundred times and a lot of time not getting paid for it. Builders aren't on site scratching their head trying to figure out where the air conditioning ducting is going to go. Or all the clients come on site and ask for something to be added on that and then the builders trying to solve it on site. Like when you're all working together as a team from the beginning and it's all right on paper. That's like again.
Speaker 1:It's so much easier. We've got jobs that are from other architects. They were still awesome houses and you got like 60, 70, 80 construction variations. Yeah, because the decisions have to be made somewhere. So we make them all in the design phase and when we've got a job that, we've got a couple of variations.
Speaker 2:And they might not even be variations, but when the early process is done, well, there shouldn't be any RFIs on a job, should there?
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's always going to be something that pops up, but yeah, definitely the time it takes for our office to run. You know a well-designed set of plans from our architecture company, verse um, one that hasn't gone through the process yeah um, yeah, it's chalk and cheese. For the amount of that you know, there's hundreds and hundreds of hours in the office yeah, that don't need to happen, and it's not.
Speaker 1:It's just. Again, it all comes down to systems process when the information's been put on the plans. Like everything starts with design. Everything starts with the design of the building. Yeah, and usually it doesn't come down to other architects and designers not wanting to do it. It comes down to their processes and where they see the value and then the fees they charge as well.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, definitely. It all comes back if you don't have time to do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how can you put that information on the plans? But yeah everyone would rather build off it, just the clients, the, the guys on site, the sub. If your information's on the plan, it just makes everyone's life a lot easier.
Speaker 2:Everything's easier, the job's more efficient. Generally you can price it better. It's going to cost the client less, the time frame for the build's less. I feel like I know from all the architectural jobs we've done in our time and look, this is probably throwing a blanket over all architects but I've always found like a lot of the time with a lot of them they're showing the final finished product but they've missed a lot of the finer details to get it to that. And when I say that like it, it might be a like I know I'll give give it of a exact example. Like we've done a few jobs that have got either zinc or copper, really detailed cladding on them and they'll want a very particular drip edge or or folded seam set up or they want a particular size quirk around something but there hasn't been enough detail on the framing or the structure behind that that needs to be built up to get to the finished product.
Speaker 2:If I go hard enough, I'm making sense.
Speaker 2:Obviously you have your main frame and your main structure.
Speaker 2:You might have some structural steel, but if you want to end up with a blade wall that's a certain width and you want a certain size seam folded and you want a certain size, drip edge and all these type of things, you've got to work backwards. And I know back in the early days, like it was always me and my team on site having to come up with a solution to how a steel beam got packed out or how a frame got built and we would have to do the little drawings and work backwards. And like now I find with our process, like because I'm at all the design meetings, I point things like that out and I'm like, oh, look, if you want to get that finished there, that's going to cause this problem on site. Like be far more efficient if we can do this and we can actually use this other product. And oh, maybe we should take that timber out there and we should use structural steel, because it'll be less. Like you can have all that discussion before you get to site.
Speaker 1:Like it just makes so much more sense to me yeah, and it's so much more valiant like having the builders however many years of knowledge you know sort the plans out through that process yeah um, you know, the only fear people have is, you know, I can't get a quote or I can't compare it to another quote, but really, if you know, there's nothing to compare is there, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:If you're in that core team architect, client, builder and everybody's at the meeting and you've had all those discussions like this is one of my arguments now like how do you relate all that IP to another builder to be able to give you a price? You can't, so you've really got to build. You have to choose a builder and an architect. I'm all about the team. You have to use a team.
Speaker 1:Especially when you're trying to build architectural homes, or dream homes as we call them. You're building project homes or unit developments, all the same, or something, but you're getting to the custom and the architectural. There's only one way to do it. Have that team, the architect, builder, client all work together and it's the only way to get that ideal outcome. Otherwise, you're going to have blowouts and you're going to have a waste in money, time and benefits. You're going to have all that sort of wasted effort.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mate, I want to jump into systems. So you're big on your systems, aren't you? That's how you obviously managed to get away and do self-development and that sort of thing. So what sort of systems does your team have?
Speaker 1:So I suppose our culture and whenever I set up a company, we try and set the culture up around a system driven and asset creation. So any frustration or bottleneck or issue you've got in your business usually comes back to not having the right asset, and an assets like a could be an email template or a estimating checklist or a brochure to explain your pack process or, yeah, um, an onboarding process for your team member.
Speaker 1:It's it's all these things, it's, it's, it's your toolkit, I suppose, for business. You know you can't again. You can't fit a nice architecture, you don't have a nice sharp drop.
Speaker 2:So you can't run a business if you don't have you know the right tools inside your business yeah, we call them props, but exactly the same. Like I, I don't think people understand the value of systems and process. I'm, um, we're huge on it in live life bill. We like over half a million building a systems library. But even just something as simple as like handling inquiry, like if you have a system for handling inquiry and every single inquiry gets handled the exact same way, like the amount of time that that saves. There's no checking.
Speaker 2:Hey, what do you want me to do about it? Or hey, this inquiry's come in. It says this what do I do? There's a process, just follow the process and follow that process until it gets to a point where they need to talk to me. They meet all our criteria and we organise a meeting and that's just for an inquiry. Like then you obviously flow that through to managing all your sub trades. And like we've even got a system for how we have a weekly site meeting with a client yeah, we have a system for creating systems.
Speaker 1:So there's um yeah, so I knew systems were important in business and you hear people talk about systems and process and systems will set you free. And systems were important in business and you hear people talk about systems and process and systems will set you free and systems will give you time. So it just comes from every direction. I want to always deliver the highest quality product to the client that I can.
Speaker 2:I think it's like one of those wee-wee things. People hear the word systems and processes and they just think it's never going to happen. How do you get freedom from a piece of paper or a document? But, like an accurate system or a process is all about having the right person doing the right thing at the right time, the right way, and so if you think about all the problems you have in your life and business generally, it's because someone doesn't know what to do, so they're chasing you up or wanting information or questioning something you've told them. They're not sure on the outcome you want, so again, they're tying you up with phone calls and trying to get extra information, or they're assuming something and doing it wrong and stuffing it up, which is then causing you, as a business owner, more problems and losing money. They solve so many issues. I'll be honest, I didn't understand them. That's probably because I didn't understand them. I didn't see the value in them, but I think it's definitely something that all business owners should put more time and energy into.
Speaker 1:Yeah, every now and then you can find the right person, like a really awesome person that can do the job without needing a system, but it's pretty rare. Yeah. And then even then, if you've got a system in place, they can perform even better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you get buy-in from your team, like I always say it's not my way. Or the highway, like this is a starting point, this is a document point. This is a document. This is like give me input, give me if I know why?
Speaker 1:if they know it's because then they can take three weeks off themselves without knowing their. You know their job role and things are still going to happen. They don't have to worry about it. Yeah, because that's what a system can do as well. Yeah, or a process yeah, the team buying so how did you um?
Speaker 2:have you done courses on systems, or yeah, so I books and checklists systems.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the checklist manifesto was a.
Speaker 1:It was a pretty cool book and it's like there, was so many this, this checklist they brought in for doctors to wash their hands before surgeries. Yeah and um. You know I thought it was a stupid idea, but it's, I can't. I don't know what the percentages were. Yeah, it saved like um 70 or 80 percent of infections in the operating room just by someone ticking a checklist before they go and operate. Um, same with pilots they always go through a checklist before they take off, even though they do it every single day. Yeah, um, my kids, when they walk out the door, it's like get your drink bottle, get your bag, give mum and dad a hug put your shoes on, brush your teeth.
Speaker 1:That's just a mini system and if they don't have that, they never do it and you have to ask them and hound them every day. I just read books the book and the thing I've just gone to in the Philippines.
Speaker 2:So what was that Dave?
Speaker 1:Jennings wrote a book called Systemology. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And he goes through talking about, because I always make things super complex, like I'm trying, I'm getting all this information from everywhere and I'll try and make a system or a process sort of complex before I can sort of simplify it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so he just really simplifies the way to make a system.
Speaker 1:He's got something called a critical client flow. So you just go from inquiry to handing your job and you just down through the core things that you have to do to deliver a product and you forget about everything else and it's just what are the core things I need to do to deliver the product? And then you just start with that and that's when I start a new business. I actually start with that that flow. So from inquiry to here and there's probably only you know, five to ten steps and then that's what I focus on systemizing and I find the most knowledgeable person in the business that knows the most about that thing and we extract it either through a conversation that we record or a screen recording. Then we write it to an SAP and then that's version one and then you might you know through your career you might have version 20, but if you can get that sort of version one system documented for the core thing that makes you money. Yeah, the key that I've found is simple.
Speaker 2:You've got to sort of keep things simplified 's my big thing, like. If it's not simple and I won't, I wouldn't use it, like I know for a fact the rest of my team won't use it yeah but like do you feel each time you create a system? Do you feel like you're floating on air, like, oh, you've just got rid of all this shit out of your head? Oh, definitely, especially through what?
Speaker 1:you said, the inquiry system, having inquiries everywhere and bits, you know leads written on bits of blocks of timber and bits of cardboard and you know, just just just create a simple form so everyone comes into this bucket, then there's a process for what happens to them from there. Yeah, um, having the you know I was. You know, we're always improving. Like now, I want to make a few more videos for when people inquire, to explain the process a bit more so you're not repeating yourself over and over yeah, we got a little.
Speaker 2:I think it's only like 90 seconds. We got a little a video that's embedded so when they get, when they, when they get our inquiry form. It's just a little video there of me telling them this is our PAC process. This is why it's important you be honest with me with your project spend, because that's going to help me give you more information.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's an awesome little system that will save you. You can still talk about that, but that's already in their head then and they already know about it and it might save 10 minutes on the phone call.
Speaker 2:Well, even that one they've still got. I don't know what it is eight or 10 questions they need to fill out. Just mate, I know for a fact that little video has probably stopped a heap of time wasted filling out our inquiry form. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because I just tell them in the video. There's a lot of people who want to express budget to you, and so the biggest point I get across in my little video is why the budget's so important, and I can only help you and give you honest feedback if you're honest with me and tell me what you want to spend on your project. Otherwise, you're just wasting all of our time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you've got a specific service for a specific thing and it doesn't fit everybody, so you need some way to feel to that yeah, start, so, yeah, it's good. Yeah, so, yeah, that's that's it. And then, yeah, we just keep developing the systems, I suppose. And then another thing I tried to make our project management system too complex. So when you think about project management software, it's who's doing what by when, not not how to do something. Yeah, how to do something. You know if would sit in your sap or your standard operating procedure yeah so it's just, and then you just got a nice clear.
Speaker 1:This person's doing this by then, um processing. If they, if they don't know how to do it, it's the first time they're doing it then they can go and check the sap and if there's a problem and someone something's gone back, and then you can go back through and trace it and you're not blaming the person, you're blaming the SAP. And then you can go back and say, oh, actually.
Speaker 1:I think you missed this step or this step was wrong, and then you can upgrade that, and it's a good way to have that continuous improvement as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now that we have them, it's a no-brainer. I can't believe any business would operate without them. What's your thoughts on? There's two things I want to get to before we wrap up, mate One's. Ai. Because I know that seminar you went to talked about some AI stuff. What's your thoughts on it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, this year's going to be huge for AI. This year and next year it's just going to change the game, how we operate. So you probably used GPT chat and you know sort of touched on a few of these basic sort of large language model sort of AIs that can be sort of good and hit and miss.
Speaker 2:I don't know how much it's going to affect the on-site stuff, but I know definitely in the business side of things and the admin side of things, if you're not investigating some AI tools, you're going to get left behind yeah, I suppose what we're doing and what's coming is you'll be able to create your own data set from what you're doing.
Speaker 1:So all the stuff you do in your business, you've already got processes and systems and it's all recorded. You'll be able to put that into your own model, your own data set. So when you ask a question, it'll pull from that before it pulls from the, like the large language model. Yeah, so it'll source. So if you've got someone on your team or a customer's got an inquiry, the AI can answer all that stuff and have a full conversation.
Speaker 1:I accidentally turned one on the other day and it's having conversations with people on Instagram and it sounds like me you wouldn't really know any difference. Yeah, you know, just some stuff we're testing. I say the same thing all the time all the sales calls, all the brief collections, it's all that. If you've got all that information collected and you record that and you just keep it there, so when the technology's available, say in 12 months, dump all that in your own pretty much specific to your business. Any information you want will be at your fingertips. Anything the client wants to know, that'll be able to answer the questions and then it'll back it up with the large language model of the GPT chat now. But at the moment, if you ask that, it's not going to be specific to your business so you'll have this new technology.
Speaker 1:That sort of sits in between.
Speaker 2:I think it's. It's going to be huge, mate. I think everyone needs to start paying attention to it. It does scare me a lot, especially, um, like it literally only has to watch a five minute video of you and it can replicate you, yeah, so, yes, you going to have to make sure you've got a lot of security stuff in place, but it's definitely going to be a game changer, especially for some businesses. It'll be able to take care of a lot of stuff you have to employ admin staff for.
Speaker 1:It is when I first started me trying to work out how to build a website. It was like domains and hosts and CMS and this, and that you can literally go onto a site, tell it what your business is, an entire website. You don't have to worry about connecting anything or doing any of that stuff. So it just gets easier and easier.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's insane.
Speaker 1:It's going to be exciting and scary at the same time, but it's going to be a cool tool and just recommend anyone listening. Just does a bit of research into ai and puts it on there put it on their um, put it on their radar, and it'll affect site as well. I just don't know how I just got. No, I, none of us, have any idea what happened over the next few years in a lot of this, like 3d printed houses and stuff.
Speaker 2:I don't I can't I just can't see how it will come into like renovation and custom build when there's just so much into stuff. But it's like look at how quickly it learns now. So, yeah, never say never, I guess.
Speaker 1:But yeah, yeah, that's the thing with it. You can it can be have no experience as well, and it gets access to the data, and then it's been the world at it by the end of the day.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, you know it's yeah, something that industry needs to pay attention to, like it's not just going to go away and it's it's not something that we should just say, oh, it'll never. It'll never happen in our game like I. I think it it will yeah, we need.
Speaker 1:We need when something needs to happen in the industry. Yeah, yeah, I imagine an ai that, um, you know, complete business operating system and and like an AI that can do all the stuff we've been chatting about, with all your numbers, and you'll get to a point where you'll you know, you'll have all that information at your fingertips on your phone.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Make it easy for small businesses to run a business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's definitely going to make life. I can see it now. It's already making a lot of marketing sort of things and producing posts and all that type of stuff. I think that's the exciting part for me. Now I see a lot more opportunity for small businesses. Like I said, you'll be able to pump out blog posts, social media posts, marketing and inquiries without having to employ a staff member. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, that sort of stuff I think is really exciting. But, mate, the last one I had down that I really wanted to chat to you about I know you're passionate about sort of more efficient homes, reducing building waste and that type of stuff. Like what are you guys doing to help that sort of the sustainability?
Speaker 1:yes, that's the main. That's the main reason I do anything, I do so back when I was trying to find my way and you know, find my, why, my purpose and got into all this personal development stuff. When you know, when you learn it, you want to teach it to someone else you think?
Speaker 1:I learn all this cool stuff and breath work or whatever I want to teach to this other person or how to run your business, and you know I was in that sort of phase and then just clicked it. You know I know heaps about building and the building environment and design. My purpose can be, you know, using all that knowledge to affect what we do to improve the health of the planet through our building environment. Yeah, so everything we do now is focused on that. You know we're not, it's all little baby steps, but it's all heading that way. So, yeah, the healthy home stuff, the building biology stuff, the building science, the passive house building, all that sort of stuff I'm right into.
Speaker 2:So what do you think the way the future is for this type of stuff? I'm right into, and so what do you think the what the way future is for this type of stuff like my? I like we've, um, we've got another business we're working on behind the scenes, like I really think like the rest of the world's doing australia's sort of left behind a bit. I'm really keen on modular sort of prefab build off site yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:so some of the stuff we've got in the pipe work is that we're planning a factory to build panellised building envelopes, so in a panellised form, so like floor cassettes, floor walls, ceiling and roof cassettes. I've travelled through Europe and looked at a lot of manufacturing facilities and going back there in a few weeks with my knees up to a long flight.
Speaker 2:Luke turned up today with his leg in a brace.
Speaker 1:So that's one thing. The factory I think that's the future of how houses will be put together.
Speaker 2:Yeah it has to be. It reduces waste yeah, it reduces waste.
Speaker 1:that's right. Then the design side of things and bringing in more sort of process and AI and bringing in the tools that we need to design in a modular form into the design business and just educating everyone through those businesses. Like we're phasing, We'll do less and less of the architectural homes and more and more of the sort of modular stuff. Yeah, Because if we've got to spend time somewhere, I'd rather spend time and energy of my guys and my time.
Speaker 2:Australia's got to catch up, don't we? They do it so well in Europe with all the prefab modular type stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, guys my age over there, when I was over there, they'd never stick-build a house Like even through their whole apprenticeship, like that's. You know, we're just way behind the times. Yeah, that's everything sort of modular. It's a different climate, I suppose, but in Tassie it is a cooler climate and it works. You know that type of thing will work well down here. So it rains a lot.
Speaker 1:So, having your building over like being able to be put together within a week and your house is watertight. You still do all the rest of the work on site and you can still do any type of design.
Speaker 2:It's just I feel it's better for everyone, like the work environment's better, like employees can actually come. They're not out in the sun or in the rain, they're. They can have a lunch room where they can actually sit down and have lunch, like not not sitting in the mud or yeah heat or whatever, but um make it more efficient hopefully more cost effective and better quality and less waste, less waste like you can.
Speaker 2:I think you gotta you can explore use of materials a bit more. Yeah, I think there's huge possibilities with all that built off site stuff.
Speaker 1:I think there's definitely a few companies in australia that are doing it and doing it quite well, but yeah, I think it's yeah, we're just on a small scale to start with and see how it goes, and we're looking at procuring materials from different places and with the building biology stuff we're looking at, you know, healthy materials, yeah, you know. So we align to nature in anything we do, the happier and the healthier we are, so any type of more natural product is definitely better.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you've heard yet. I don't know if you listened to the podcast we released a couple of weeks ago with Paula Baker-Latrobe.
Speaker 1:Only like five minutes of it. Yeah, I haven't listened to the start of it.
Speaker 2:Have you read her books?
Speaker 1:I've got them. Yeah, I haven't read them yet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I'm only halfway through one of them, but it's the way she talks about it. It's the way she talks about it like what her, her and her husband have done for healthy, like the healthy home movement in the last 30, 40 years, is just incredible. Like she was such a good person to interview and, yeah, I can't wait to get to the states and catch up with them. The way, um, she talks about like and people think I sound like a broken record, but this sort of stuff really, really excites me. Now, like she talks about how people think that when they have holidays from work and they come back and they're a different person, it's because they've had a week away from their job and that's got a little bit to do with it.
Speaker 2:But nine times out of ten, when someone has a holiday, they go to a destination they're looking forward to, and normally that destination is either in the mountains or fresh air, or by the beach or in the ocean, or going on a bushwalk or a hike, like they're spending time back out in the elements, when, when you're working, you're not getting to do that. So it's not so much that you're away from your job, it's actually actually that you're doing what humans are meant to do, like. You're getting back to nature. You're walking bare feet. You're you're breathing fresh air. You're you're getting back to nature. You're walking bare feet. You're breathing fresh air. You're exerting energy exercising.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know how humans even operate in, you know, the society, the buildings and the off-gassing of everything, the air quality and you know the technology, and especially in cities.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so that's like in my building business that's our big driver now like just educating people, and I'm sure you find the same thing. It's amazing how this is where the magic happens. When you're passionate about something and you speak from the heart and you put it out there, you attract like-minded people that are interested in that and that's your perfect client.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's exactly what's happened to us. That's what happens.
Speaker 2:You get the perfect guys that want to build what you want to build and align your values and yeah, and your team changes like your team through everyone like everyone, when you, when you can really dive and delve in and and create a mission statement that shows all your values like it flows through all your team, your suppliers, like everyone, everyone can do on a more personal level, don't they?
Speaker 1:yeah, like people will hunt you down because they're interested in the same thing yeah, so yeah, it's huge for anyone starting out is just get a super clear vision, mission and you know values.
Speaker 2:Super simple yeah, and then, yeah, explain it to your clients and your team and repeat it all the time yeah, mate, before we wrap up, like anything you want to uh tell the listeners or put out to the world?
Speaker 1:um, yeah, you can check out our architecture site alignbuild. Um, I've got a book coming out explain that how to build your dream home. Yeah, so it goes through what a dream home is and our six elements like our six element process, and then how to work your dream home. So it goes through what a dream home is and our six elements like our six element process, and then how to work together with your architect, builder and client and the process. Yeah, awesome.
Speaker 1:That'll be out pretty soon, so you can find that on the Align website as well. Got to be an audible mate. I'll do an audible. Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty much it. You can find me on instagram at luke davies to build if you want to shoot us a message and got any questions uh, awesome, mate.
Speaker 2:Well, really appreciate your time. Thanks for coming, coming on, uh, and having a chat. I have been looking to, looking forward to talking to you for a little. For a while, I've only ever heard good things about you. So, uh, keep doing what you do and smash it out, and I look forward to following your journey from here on. So, look as usual. If you like this podcast, like, share, subscribe, stay tuned and look forward to seeing you on the next one are you ready to build smarter, live better and enjoy life?
Speaker 1:then head over to live like buildcom forward, slash, elevate to get started.
Speaker 2:Everything discussed during the Level Up podcast with me, dwayne Pearce, is based solely on my own personal experiences and those experiences of my guests. The information, opinions and recommendations presented in this podcast are for general information only, and any reliance on the information provided in this podcast is done at your own risk. We recommend that you obtain your own professional advice in respect to the topics discussed during this podcast.