Level Up with Duayne Pearce
I take on the role of an authoritative voice that fearlessly communicates truths drawn directly from my lived experiences. With a genuine sense of ownership, my insights are free from any hidden agendas – they truly belong to the audience. My stories and journey add remarkable value, the key now lies in harnessing its power effectively to help others.
My purpose is to create a new residential building industry. My mission is to inspire unshakable self-confidence in my colleagues in the industry, empowering them to orchestrate prosperous, enduring, and lucrative businesses that bring exceptional projects to fruition for our clients.
My goal is to foster a deeper comprehension among clients about the identity and functions of builders, redefining their perceptions.
Level Up with Duayne Pearce
I'm a Business Owner Before a Brickie.
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Join us for an intriguing conversation with Dylan Richards, a bricklayer from Brissie who understands that having a crack and learning from your failures is a fantastic step in the right direction to running a successful business.
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D Pearce Constructions
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I think I took some rubber seals actually off a window.
Speaker 2:Oh, f***ing brickies, that's what you do.
Speaker 1:I know, sorry boys. If my business is making good money, I want all of us to enjoy it, because I want it to be a team thing.
Speaker 2:You want someone that's been through the hard yards, that has the experience Like old-fashioned values Like that's what we were brought up on.
Speaker 2:I really think this podcast is going to be inspiring for a lot of trades out there. G lot of trades out there. G'day guys. Welcome back to another episode of Level Up. We are back in the shed this afternoon for another cracking episode. Look, before we get into this one today, I just want to thank all the people that are reaching out commenting, listening to this podcast, which is helping us make this Australia's number one construction podcast, which is absolutely frigging awesome, and it's helping my mission to create a new building industry. So pretty pumped about this one today, actually, because we've got someone new for you. So this guy actually reached out to me and told me he was Brisbane's best bricklayer. So I was like we haven't had a bricklayer before, let's get him on. So a big warm welcome to Dylan. How are you, mate?
Speaker 1:Good mate, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:So you're a perfectionist, you love afl, you're from melbourne and you're a good bricklayer. Yes, my wife might not think I'm the perfectionist, but yeah, even in the last 10 minutes just, or 15 minutes having a chat before we started recording today, I'm pretty pumped about this one. The energy is really good. Your energy is fantastic good, but even just hearing like you want to get off the tools you want to become a business owner like it's just there's so many people in our industry that just don't think like that well, yeah, it was probably.
Speaker 1:I've had my business for six years now and it was after three years of just doing like residential project homes, just busting my guts day in, day out. Money would just come in, go out and I was just saying to my wife, like why is this? Like there's got to be more to that, because that's not a business to me, a business like should be you can step away in a business like mcdonald's, for instance. The guy who made mcdonald's he's not at your local mcdonald's yeah.
Speaker 2:So what's the business mean to you like? Why did you get into business?
Speaker 1:probably it was at the start got into it because thinking I don't want to work for this guy. It was his form and, like everyone probably does, I want to get all the money for myself type thing Meaning and give you all that.
Speaker 1:But it wasn't for freedom Pardon, you didn't get into business for freedom to be able to make your own decision, no I would say I was probably I don't know maybe young and naive when I first got in because I just wanted that next step. But I just wanted that part. And then I didn't look forward. It wasn't to three years of having a business learning like failing, blah, blah, blah. Then I went fuck, I'm gonna do something different here. And my older brother he's got a flooring business in Melbourne. So my older brother, his business, like he would just as a mentor kind of not a mentor, it's my older brother, but would just give little tips. And then when I started thinking him and like going over my numbers and stuff like that where you ask heaps of people, they wouldn't even know their numbers. And then it's like when you do it and write it down, like I was like I'm literally doing this job and I'm going to make no money because my labor costs this, my materials cost this.
Speaker 2:Well, the fact that you've actually got to a point where you've done that, yeah you've actually got to a point where you've done that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because a lot of tradies don't. Well, that's what I in my um, yeah, my coaching call the other day there was like 20 of us and it would have been like half of them said, oh no, we don't know, and they've been in business way longer than me, some of the blokes and I was like I was baffled by that. I was like now took me three years, but we're not taught like you know.
Speaker 2:That's correct. You, like you were saying before, like you were in a year before me, like you said, you dropped out when you were in grade nine.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And, well, it doesn't really matter what year you drop out of school but you're not taught through your trade. Like you're taught some very, very basic business stuff, but like you're not taught to work backwards. Yeah, and like I think it's hard for well, it's hard for anyone, but definitely tradies that are working for volume builders because the prices are set. Yeah, like you don't get a choice. They just say you're going to get like what's these days? What's a volume builder paying per brick?
Speaker 1:I think $1.50 to $1.70, but I haven't done one for two years because I was like there's no way, I'm going to do that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so what? Builder like 260, 280, I think. Yeah, I think we're playing around 280 yeah, anywhere from there.
Speaker 1:But I base it off like I'd rather have the conversation like this with the builder to say what are we doing? Because people will ring me up and say what's your rate? Where to me I think that's a bit of a silly question. What's my rate? Because am I doing a dead straight wall? That's right there, the blocks are there, then I'll give you a rate. But am I doing a chimney or something like that with, yeah, loads of detail in it?
Speaker 2:it's like, well, 100, do you get what I?
Speaker 1:mean I can't give you a rate, man, I'll give you like a brick rate to go off maybe, but then I'll break it down for you and work out my labor and then I'll give you like a price but for brick insight, to make a margin as well and that's how it should be.
Speaker 1:100 a rate only applies to the simplest form of what you're doing but you hear, that's that's what I mean, where you said before that we're not taught. It's like as the industry, that's all these things you were saying when I'd like say, oh, he's spot on there. That was one of the things you might have said on a recent podcast, but it was like everyone's taught. It's like I did my apprenticeship with so and so and then I just learned his part and then it's like just ongoing, but no one's breaking out to go. Yeah, what are we doing here?
Speaker 2:anyone that's listening would have heard me talk like. I did subcontract carpentry work for years, built up a very profitable, successful carpentry business, but it was only profitable and successful because I worked backwards, yeah. So I'm not sure why, like, even though, like, I wasn't super good at mass at school, but numbers and data sort of interest me a little bit. But basically I got into a few year period where we were just smashing out frames for project builders and volume builders and they would say, like you'd get sent an email with purchase orders on it and it'd say the address and a linear meter rate for like a pre-nulled frame or a stick frame or whatever it was and trusses and then soffits and all those types of things. And so I used to always like before, like I'd be up late every night, like because I had multiple carbon gangs running around the place, but like for a frame. So they've sent through a prior like.
Speaker 2:The easiest one to remember was I did a lot of work for this developer that was doing townhouses and duplexes and things, and for a three-story walk-up townhouse. People won't believe this. This is pretty much 20 years ago when I started doing this. So for a three-story walk-up, I don't know what the square meters were, probably 120 to 140 square meters. So bottom floor was like double garage which was all block work, so it had a little entry stairwell and then the second level was like kitchen, living area, bathroom, and then the top level was three bedrooms, like tiny bedrooms, and ensuite and bathroom and so for stick frame, party, wall, uh, insulation, all the windows, all the external cladding, internal fit out like all the carpentry work.
Speaker 2:On that job I used to get 7400 bucks and like it seemed like a lot of money to me back then because this guy would do like a group of 40, and so I'd go shit, 7200 bucks, 7400 bucks times 40, like I'm laughing. But then I would go through in my head like I'd do the numbers on paper the few days before or the night before and whatever, and I'd do the rough numbers of like all right, I'm gonna have these three carpenters on that frame, they're costing me this much, and um, you'd add it up like through it by three, by a day, holy shit, like then. So basically that would work out how many days I had to get that work done and like I know why I was stressed I had to, we had to run like everybody had to run. That's why I, that's why I nearly lost my voice. I was always yelling at everyone because if I didn't get it done I simply didn't make any money.
Speaker 2:And the only reason I made a lot of money doing that carpentry work was for volume. Yeah, we literally made. We were only making a few hundred bucks or 500 bucks per building, but it was the volume. So I had multiple gangs over multiple sites. How many blokes did you have At our peak? I think we maxed out about. I can't remember if it was like 46, 48, or it might have been 52. Yeah, and like I was only mid-20s, like it was a lot of blokes to be running, that's crazy.
Speaker 2:But that's the thing, like you were when you're dictated the rates by these developers, volume builders, like there would be hundreds of thousands of trades out there that are simply getting. Like, whether it's you as a brick, you're getting told a rate, carbon is getting told the right, concrete is getting told the right, and just going and smashing out that work and just putting the invoices in, getting the payments and not knowing, oh shit, like that job actually cost me 500 bucks. Yeah, that job. Oh shit, I made 1200 on that one. Like they have no idea 100. Like they're just doing the work, putting the invoices in. Yeah, get the money in. And then sit back and think like why have I got no cash? Like why, why am I not making money?
Speaker 1:well they get excited for I've got 10 plans ahead of me. Like, oh, the builder's giving me 10 plans ahead. Yeah, well, I, when I first started that's what, like I was 25, it was just me and my apprentice, so I was just pestering every builder. I'm surprised I didn't even hit you up, mate, just any builder in brisbane, because I obviously grew up in melbourne and I moved here when I was 22 so I didn't have like friends I played footy with or anything. It was just I started from no one. Yeah, up here, so I was just.
Speaker 1:I would pester just people all the time, me and my wife. We would just write down every single project builder pretty much in southeast queensland and just send an email to anyone just say, like a little bit about myself, will you give me a crack? Yeah, and then that was the thing. And then once you got a couple and it was like, oh, yeah, then you put a couple of boys on, but then, yeah, after three years, once you actually run your business for a while, and then you go, something's not adding up here but it's you have to do it, don't you?
Speaker 1:yeah, well I wouldn't change it, like if you said, would you go back to here right now, like to where I am now or where I'm going to be? I wouldn't, because I learned so much along the way. Yeah, and my wife used to say from the start, because I knew like the type of work I wanted to do is where I'm what I'm doing now, but that's six years of my name, like getting out there a little bit and stuff like that, where she used to always be like you have to wait, like you have to wait. Where are you smell, like I just want to do it, like I know I can do it. Yeah, but it was it's five sorry, three to five years of like hustling, failing, like my first ever job, my first ever job I did for myself. I had I brought a mix, a shitty mixer from Gumtree. I still talk to that bloke now and my step, my father-in-law's garden wheelbarrow, got my lead, got like my licenses and stuff that I needed to have, but my gear like was like shit, it doesn't matter. Yeah, but I was like I'm just doing it and me and my apprentice I did a whole house Like I'd take a week and a bit, and some people like, how'd you do that?
Speaker 1:I'm just thinking because I knew, like, where I wanted to be. But yeah, my first ever house I did. Once I finished it, they they tried to sue me for some like defects and stuff. I already got paid but then tried to sue me. So I remember sitting down is this a private client or a builder? No, like a project builder. But they knew because I was a young bloke. Maybe we can get him here. Shitty, all these little like run just a Hilux with just shitty tools on the back. But that's all I had and I was like, fuck, I'll make it work.
Speaker 2:And I remember just and don't take this the wrong way but like, because one of the things I know with this industry now is you don't know what you don't know. So like, did you know? Like all the rules and the regs and the codes? No, no.
Speaker 1:But I knew like meaning, because I'd done it for 10 years then that I knew maybe like what he got away with. What he got away with.
Speaker 2:So what were they trying to sue for? Like weep holes?
Speaker 1:not cleaning shit out. Well, in the end it just came like a whole bunch of things, but at the start, like I got paid for the job and he told me how good the job was, and then, like they came back with all these things I'm thinking you've already paid me like I don't understand this. So it wasn't not like nothing I can say, like it was this. It was that I think I took some rubber seals actually off a window oh, fucking brickies that's what you do, I know know.
Speaker 2:Sorry boys, but something like that they're there for a reason.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but so I went back, I rang the window because obviously in my head I'm thinking all right, like this is the problem, how do we deal with that? So I rang the window person, took my seals off, put them all back on.
Speaker 2:So you fixed what they were trying to. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And that I was. I always talk to my mum, but like old fashioned values, like that's what we were brought up on. So if I do something wrong, even now like if you rang me and said, oh, that wall you did was out give me the chance to rectify it and then let's go. So the relationship at the end is you're still happy with me and I'm still like, yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 2:It's like I'll put my hand up Like when I first started and as a tradie and a carpenter and then carpentry business and even a building business. I know the shit that I did back then that I would not do now. Yeah, like you've got to learn, yeah 100%.
Speaker 2:And that's. There is so much to learn and like I've learned as a builder, but actually a bit of a shout out while we're talking about this, so I don't know if you've seen it like there's a um mate of mine's made this new app, um, or we've become mates. But uh, tools app, it's like a. I'll show you it on my ipad before you go. It'd be good for you, but you basically pay a monthly subscription and you can click on it and it it gives you the building codes and standards. Yeah, so, like you, as a brick, you could click on masonry work and like it'll give you all. Like you can zoom in and it'll tell you exactly where your weep hole should be, where your damp core should be, how you like the fall you need to have on stills, like it's. It's awesome, yeah. So, yeah, every trade, every builder out there, you need to get on board with the tools app. It is freaking awesome.
Speaker 2:We'll put a link on this podcast. But, um, it's. Yeah, that is a. That's a pet hate of mine and, to be honest, the one of my bosses, when I was a calmder, he used to pull those rubber strips off the windows as well. Yeah, and so I I finished my apprenticeship thinking oh, they're, they're not needed because you learned from him previously.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, every job like he would pull them off and like I remember saying to him one day like what? Like, why are we pulling them off? Oh, because they get in the way of the brickies. And, um, if the, if it's a rendered job, like the render, yeah and yeah, obviously. Now I've learned like those rubber strips there for a rendered job like the render can.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they want yeah, and yeah, obviously now I've learnt like there's rubber strips there for a reason to keep the wee poles in the windows clean and allow water to get in and out. But there's a lot to know in there. Yeah, do you? But a?
Speaker 1:lot to learn, but it's like along the way and you're always learning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my pet hate with brickies is you're dropping too much mud down the back and filling all the cavities up with shit e-block on the bottom mate.
Speaker 1:You've blocked.
Speaker 2:Oh, you're in brickwork, in brickwork it's hard, but isn't it like it? Yeah, you gotta, you gotta. Really, it's a skill to learn how much mud to put on your courses to stop it all just rolling.
Speaker 1:Well, we we do that like I like on site to be like fun for my boys, I want them to want to work for me and trying to make myself like a point of difference, like it's fun. But we always get a builder or the supervisor there when we're almost at the end, like have a crack, like you all say, oh, it's so easy to lay bricks it's like we have a crack, then they can't even get the mud on the trail, and so we all just sit there like there we go, mate it's hard.
Speaker 2:I've had a few cracks at um laying bricks and blocks and it's hard.
Speaker 1:It's all in the wrist, mate.
Speaker 2:The right consistency to get, especially with blocks, to get the bricks to sit up on the mud. It's hard work, so you did your time in Melbourne.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just doing project builds basically.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so no, have you worked on like any of the? Because Melbourne's got some incredible brick building.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Did you do any of the old skills type stuff, or it was just cavity brick?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's all the guy I did my apprenticeship with. He was, like, had been there for 20 years, like they only use that guy. Yeah, so, and by the end of it once I like I did it, I was 15. I was qualified when I was 19. All my mates were just kind of starting their apprenticeships but by the end of my apprenticeship I was shitting my pants because he he would keep you for your apprenticeship but he said, basically when you qualified I'll give you a month or two, but you've got to find somewhere else.
Speaker 2:Like that's because he's doing volume work. He's probably getting paid shit money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he needs cheap labor to do the work, which is fine because he would, he would, yeah, like that's why we get shit houses yeah, but he would tell us that meaning for me, I know, for the actual house, fucking oath, but for me.
Speaker 1:So I knew, um, so I would like try and reach out to the next guy. But then I remember starting with the next guy and in my head I was thinking off, I'm a qualified brick slave. He asked me to like set gauge or set profiles. Fuck, I'm gonna be like. I'm just thinking do not ask me, do not ask me, just leave me on the line like in the middle of people. Yeah, just because I wasn't taught everything I know up to there well, I think that's again.
Speaker 2:It's just something else that our industry has to deal with, like yeah, but meaning you're sure that quite no, I didn't know everything when I finished my time.
Speaker 1:Yeah but meaning that you should have a good understanding.
Speaker 2:I think there's so many things that come into play, like the type of boss you had and this is something that I've talked about on the last few podcasts we're tradies and we're builders, we're not teachers, and so apprentices are only ever going to be as good as the people that are teaching them.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, if you're not putting in the time and the effort to teach them or and like definitely like yelling at people all the time, that doesn't teach people.
Speaker 2:Like yeah, but I think it's really important to highlight it because, like I you touched on it before like your values and things, like yeah, I know I didn't know enough when I finished my apprenticeship, but I was always brought up that you put in the effort, you ask questions, you you make sure things are right. Yeah, and as soon as I started contracting, like I know I didn't know everything, but I would ask a lot of questions and I'd reach out to the other tradies in the team and that type of thing. But but I knew that and so I knew I had to work my way up. Yeah, and like I remember, I finished my apprenticeship and I I was smashing out the work on site, but like I was only on $22 an hour and the rest of the guys on site were $40 and $45. Whereas these days, like apprentices, expect to finish their time and just go straight on to what the trade is wrong and even then I can remember I went from $22 to $25 to $27.
Speaker 2:And then I think I went to like $32 and then $, then 38, like I had a lot of steps to get to the top and it fucking shits me that people these days expect just to finish their time and go straight from apprenticeship wages to the same as the carpenters on site.
Speaker 1:like you, in this industry you have to have experience and and, if you can like, if you're asking for more money, I would happily pay like a bricklayer a good bricklayer that knew what he was doing pretty much what he wanted. You pay for value, don't you?
Speaker 1:yeah, so literally not that. Like now that I'm trying to get into just running my business. Like the small calls that you get I'm sure you've probably had them, but like the low value task. It's like, why are you calling me if you're the foreman? Yeah, do you mean you need a bag of cement? It's like, okay, I don't need to know that though I'm trying to win us. But I think I would have thought the same as well, that winning that job and getting like that next part of like in the office running the business stuff, that is so much fucking harder than laying bricks. I would lay bricks all day long like it's nothing to me. I do that and then I go do all of that. We're like trading, trading.
Speaker 2:It's every trade like every trade. But they all think you know how.
Speaker 1:It's like a little bit of oh yeah, like you're just going to sit at home on the couch like, yeah, dude, you would not live a day in my head, literally, if you could get into my head right now. I'm thinking of like 20 000 things, yeah, while I'm still laying as many bricks as everyone here everyone on site.
Speaker 2:Always it's it's perception. Yeah, they don't it, uh it. You can't. You cannot have a business being on the tools all the time and if it's not a business you just. Well, you end up doing everything at night, yeah like.
Speaker 1:But that's what I'm saying. It's not a business. So if you actually break it down, I did this like three months ago in my head I'm thinking. I started thinking I'm like almost every business I know I'm like isn't a proper business. They're not because we're not taught. No, that's right. Like the ones that have a business, they're not just running around like a headless chook, like putting out fires, like I've got this, I've got this, I've got this, I've got this.
Speaker 2:There's so many parts to it like that's why, like I'm so proud of live life bill, like we, we only train builders, yeah, but um, I know there's a lot of good training out there for tradies in these days, but number one, you don't know what you don't know. Number two, it's it needs to be relatable. And I think number three, which I think gets overlooked, or I know gets overlooked a lot, is if you're going to be paying someone to like, ultimately you want to be paying someone to teach you. That is where you're at Like and so you want someone that's been through the hard yards, that has the experience.
Speaker 2:And I I feel like it seems to be a lot of noise in our industry at the moment from people training builders and training tradies that have had a couple of years success, or maybe five years of a little bit of success, and all of a sudden they think they're fucking life coaches and they can change a building industry. But you've got to have the runs on the board and, as you figured out, after five or six years and I think it's fantastic like you're getting coaching now. What was the call? What made you get to a point where you're like I need help?
Speaker 1:Probably I've been meaning to do it like for the last two years or something like that, Just always thinking, okay, what's the next thing? Like how can I learn more?
Speaker 2:And then Well, sorry to cut you off. Can we go back to what made you think that there's not a lot of businesses out there?
Speaker 1:Because I knew how my business was being ran was just as a tradie. I was there the whole time doing it, like doing everything. But then in the end I'm thinking you're basically just a sub, like you're a subbie, but you're just the leader of the pack, like doing everything, doing all the organizing. Where in my head I'm like a business owner is someone who's not doing all of that. He's running the business, he's managing his boys, he's like ordering stuff, like not me just putting out fires everywhere.
Speaker 1:It's like then, if one of the boys comes to me and says, look, I want to pay your eyes or I want to be the foreman, it's like, well, why don't you show? Like be half of me on site? And then like, then let's talk. Yeah, do like take half away of my stuff that I don't need and I can work on this part. And if I'm working on bigger stuff, that's more money. And then like meaning, if my business is making good money, I want all of us to enjoy it, because I want like it to be a team thing. Do you get me and everyone to go?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, I want every tradie in the fucking in the world to hear this, but if you, work for like brick insight.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm saying. I want it to be the point of difference like oh yeah, those guys, they're easy to get along, they're not like yeah, yeah but what got you to that point?
Speaker 2:Where were you at when you thought I actually want a business, I don't want to be in the trenches anymore.
Speaker 1:I would think, or like I just talk to people different industries, like my brother-in-law is really good at real estate, like my father-in-law is an ethotist Like they've got good stuff, they earn good money. And I'm like they've got good stuff, they earn good money and I'm thinking, but there's no reason why I can't. So like what is the reason why? Like what can I do to better myself, to do more, like get more well on that point it's a lot of.
Speaker 2:It's because the tradies and builders have never thought of themselves as a professional industry yeah like they and that's a mindset thing like and that's one of the things I'd get people to do, uh, in elevate with builders like. So I asked him a question it'd be the same for you, like. So I asked builders like, if you're walking down the road or you run into someone at a pub or a barbecue, whatever if someone asks you, what do you do? What do you tell them?
Speaker 1:yeah, oh, from a month ago.
Speaker 2:I'm a bricklayer, yeah, so what? And then? So what do you call yourself now? Now I purposely say business owner yeah, and it's a mindset thing, isn't it? Because, as soon as so now, you're calling yourself a business owner, your outlook on everything would be completely different. Yeah and yeah. So people, oh, what do you do? Oh, I'm a chippy. Oh, I'm a plumber.
Speaker 1:I'm like you're always. So I run a business like I've got a bricklaying business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, yeah, wow and it's words hey, words are really powerful, like when you swap that wording around and you, you repeat it over and, over and over again. It is unbelievable how powerful it is.
Speaker 1:I started thinking too how can I get there? And then it all comes to you in the end. If you want a better life for your kids, it's dropping bombs here, mate, but your kids? If you want a better life for your kids, you as the dad like me, I'm thinking I'm the only one that can do that. Yeah, no one else is gonna come and save. Like I think goggin says it. No one's gonna save you. And when you actually think of that and break it fully down, they're not.
Speaker 2:No one will and that's that so you get up and fucking do it most people are looking for the, the secret the easy way, the, the rule book, the yeah, secret document that's gonna fucking change their life and instantly make them all this money Like. Life is hard, isn't it? Yeah, and you are the only one. You are the driver, literally.
Speaker 1:Nobody else I know. Instagram has a few of those motivational things, but my wife I just smash them to her all the time, just getting pumped, like I'm like fuck, yeah, I can't wait for this run in the morning because it will be what you send them to her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I send them all the time, like we just nah. She's like do you get me? Get it, baby, let's do it. So you're not sending them to her to motivate her, you're sending them to her because you're that meaning I'll do it.
Speaker 1:But I know, yeah, people don't think too, if you do it, everyone around you will change too. Yeah, like even I was just running like a mad man, but um, and I was running because it was good for my head. So I would tell my wife I'm going for a run because I would run, and it was like meditating basically for me, like, the further I run, I didn't think about running, I thought about what am I gonna do. And then I would get home and like be like oh, what do I? What happens if we do this or do this? And she'd be like like, after I'd given her 10 ideas, she'd be like let's do one. But meaning your brain literally works different. It's like it's insane. If you can get to that part, yeah, but you're the one to start it.
Speaker 2:This is why I'm trying to dig in a bit deeper here, because I love these conversations, because everyone's wanting their hand to be held or someone to hold them accountable, like all that stuff. Yeah, at the end of the day, like it's you have to do it, like, and it blows my mind how many people, um, like I, I don't know, I find this really hard. So I get and not to sound like a dick like every day I get a phone call, a message or an email from a builder or a tradie or some part of the industry wanting advice or help or wanting to know more about Live, life, build, whatever it is. And like they tell me their problems and I know the solution and I can save them like 10, 5, 10, 15 years of heartache. Yeah, but they hum and ha and don't follow through.
Speaker 2:Like it just it drives me insane. Like time's the biggest one. Like the amount of people that tell me oh, I don't have enough time. Oh, I've just had a baby. Oh, I've got a young family. Oh, we've just moved house. Oh, like, oh, we've just moved house. Oh, like it's all excuses, yeah. Like if you fucking want something, if you want a better life if you want a better business.
Speaker 1:Go and get it. Delete your social media. Do that for a month to everybody, like whoever's listening. Just do it for a month and change that to something that will better. You read your book instead of scrolling instagram in your bed for two hours. Yeah, and go out, get up for a run, even when your mind doesn't tell you and you tell me, your life doesn't change.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it literally will change in a month.
Speaker 1:Literally, yeah, and it's like magic and people are like no, I'm telling you it's magic. Yeah, people think it's all woo-woo shit and then it keeps flowing on, but you've got to keep doing it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right on it like this is, this is. I'm really on this bandwagon at the moment. Like people, this isn't just something you. You start and then everything magically falls into place and all of a sudden, your life's perfect and you got to time. Like people ask me like how does it happen? I'll say it doesn't happen. Like I make it happen every day. You choose to do every single day. My aim is to be better than yesterday. Yeah well, every single hour is better than the hour before. Like my, my life isn't what it is and everyone has this perception that it's perfect and I have all this bad time. Like, I make my day and my life what it is, and you're obviously on that bandwagon as well what time do you wake up in the morning?
Speaker 2:uh, I'm, I don't set alarms like I just naturally actually wake up, but my my rule is that if I wake up, I get up, because yeah and that's any generally any time between four and five o'clock yeah, okay, yeah, because I did.
Speaker 1:When I was going through all this, I was doing some jobs for like high-end or obviously wealthy people, and then I I just will walk up and have a chat to anyone, but I would ask them what time do you wake up? And then in my head I started thinking I'm like he's got like he's well off, he's got like an awesome house, what everyone wants. What does he do? He gets up before the guy who's complaining over here. What time do you get up? Do you go in eight o'clock? There's my point. Yeah, like you. And then he doesn't want to do it, but he's doing it.
Speaker 2:That's why they have that I've, I've created more, just like everything wealth, education, knowledge, everything from four to five in the morning. Yeah then, like I can. I can achieve more in one in that early morning than I do in the whole week.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like it's insane and if you start your day with a win, yeah, do you mean your?
Speaker 2:day. What's your?
Speaker 1:morning routine. I get up it's not every time, like I'm not perfect as well, but I try and wake up at four or ten to four get up, have like an electrolyte or something and do a little stretch and then go for either a four I've got a loop around my house a 6k run or a 12k run, yeah. So I just choose to do that, depending how I'm feeling, yeah, and what I've got to do for the day. But if I do that and where, where I stop, there's a cafe near. So then me, my mate, or sometimes I'll do it by myself we'll stop there and then we just walk and chat. What are we doing for the day for the rest? And then we're back at home at five o'clock or 5 30 in the morning, have our shower, go to work yeah, I don't like you just said.
Speaker 1:You just said that you're not perfect, like no some days, of course, like this morning I knew like in my head I went you're gonna be a bit of a fake if you try and say this stuff, what you do. But you're not in my head. But I was like my legs were sore from the run previously and then I was like you know what? I'm having a sleep. My son came into my bed at five and I thought, oh, I'll just sleep in here now.
Speaker 2:But that's the thing. But like it's everyone I think through social media has this perception that it has to. Like you've got to be perfect. Yeah, like every day. But like I guarantee you look every single one of these people you see on instagram that are killing it like they're not doing the exact same thing every single day. Like it's okay, yeah, to have a break every now and then, but it's completely your choice. Like you have to make the rules. You have to run your own race. Like come up with your own morning routine. Like stick to it. Like push harder. Like every day is a challenge. Yeah, like do you I call them my demons. Like do you fight your demons every day? Like, um, like you have these little voices in your head that are telling you you should do this, you should do that, or that's going to go wrong, or no no, pretty no you are perfect
Speaker 1:no, I'm not I'm definitely not perfect, but I'm pretty like I don't know pretty relaxed and probably talk to my wife about like problems and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:So I don't try and fight them, yeah, but so you don't have like, you don't talk to yourself about, like your team on site or what's going to get done on site, or something might go wrong or how am I going to get to that job?
Speaker 1:That's what I mean. Yeah, okay, yes.
Speaker 2:There's always noise. Well, there's always noise.
Speaker 1:Well, that's what I mean. If I run, that's my time to do that.
Speaker 2:But it's like yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 1:it's like it's weird to like to explain You're not thinking of it, but you are thinking of it, but you're concentrating on the running part but also thinking about it, so you can think different ways.
Speaker 2:And you've got to have that, don't you Like whether it's running meditating?
Speaker 1:Yeah, whatever you do, yeah, You've got to have an escape.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So what's your goals now? So you've figured that out. You've realized that I don't just want to be a tradie, I want to be a business owner. And you've reached out. You're getting some training on that. So is the training you're doing like trade specific, or is it just business training?
Speaker 1:No, it's trade, yeah, trade specific, yeah. So you've got a, you ring up, you have like a call with them. Tell them about your business, like what, what your aspirations and stuff are, and they will let you know whether you're a good someone they could help or not. But being a bricklayer and I think there's not many bricklayers out there that I'm in a good spot. I'm 31, so in my head I'm thinking I've got 30 years like bricklayers and old bands game at the moment. So in 10 years there's not going to be many or be 40 then.
Speaker 2:But well, I hope this podcast inspires some people to be brickies mate, because, like from what I hear from my bricklayer well, actually, and and from um, that's my tafe guy that looks after our carpentry apprentices like there is not a lot of brickies coming through no, that's what.
Speaker 1:Well, I rang up just before because I was thinking I want to many. There is, yeah, and apparently he told me there's 340 bricklayer apprenticeships in the whole of Queensland. Holy shit, apprentices, not apprenticeships.
Speaker 2:At all years. Right, yeah, that's nothing.
Speaker 1:That's what I was thinking. I'm like that's literally crazy. I wonder how many? And I love, like I'd love laying bricks laying bricks, but people think I know like, oh, it's so easy and stuff like that. But it's like it's, it's good, like obviously it's hard, you're getting a workout.
Speaker 1:The laboring yeah, the laboring is hard, but how many brickies you see on the scaffold just screaming out for mud. I'm like we're just laying them there, but that that's, that's good. Like I like I really love playing bricks. I love laying a wall, looking back and being like, wow, that looks awesome. Yeah, and then like obviously the builder or the client comes and says that as well. It's even more like uplifting.
Speaker 2:You're like, oh, yeah, so how do you like? What separates you from another bricky like? How do you like, did you I'm assuming you get contracts off the builders you work for you agree to pricing?
Speaker 1:yeah, I like to price. I don't know, I think I don't know. Maybe some bricklayers are scared to give a price. Where I'm like, I will give you a price and that's my price for the whole job?
Speaker 1:yeah, labor only or materials no, I would like whatever you want. Or I'm happy to give you one and then we can like dissect it after and you say I'll get the bricks or something. Okay, that's cool, but I'll give you that option. Because I don't want when I'm giving my price and like obviously I've learned along the way, and then I'm losing these jobs. And then I'd be like why am I losing the jobs? And then it would always be for price, I'm thinking. But why is it always price? Like depending who you use and relationships? If someone's got a bricklayer who they've had for 20 years, I'm like I like that part. So I I'm like I don't want to do that, but if he's ever too busy, do you get me?
Speaker 2:yeah here's my number yeah, relationships are huge, but but that's what I'm.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to say I want to build a relationship with a builder, but that's to say like this is what I'll do, which is probably the the actual um, brick laying or block laying is probably the same as everyone. But I'm trying to say, like if there is a problem, I'll I'll sort the problem out. Yeah, if you want me to supply all the materials, okay, I'll do that but, I make it a conversation but then say but I want it to be ongoing yeah, but it was before we started recording.
Speaker 2:Today we'll have a bit of conversation about this and um. It's something I'd like to talk about now because I think a lot of trades, a lot of builders overlook it. But you were saying, like if you give a builder a price and you, you turn up and the, the bricks are here and the jobs 100 meters down the driveway and then they expect you to include, like, move them all around yeah, isn't that a part of your rate?
Speaker 2:yeah, and I think that's pretty unfair and yeah, and, and I think it's pretty poor, I definitely, I definitely.
Speaker 2:My view is that there's a lot of builders that take advantage of their trades yeah and this because they're not pricing the jobs properly, they're not allowing miscellaneous labor and all those types of things. Like we track all their data so we know if we do a three-story house it's got a block basement. How much time is required to move the blocks around the site? Yeah, but I think it's pretty rude of a builder to have a trade such as you a brick bricklayer, brocklayer and like it's a three-story house on a steep site. The blocks are down at the footpath and expect you to isn't that a part of the price?
Speaker 1:yeah, get them to the second level, yeah, but that's why, from now, obviously, learning along the way, you'd get stuck doing that sometimes, but then now, like I'll just say it at the start, just have a friendly chat, like I like it being like that. Just have a friendly chat. And I know some people don't like it that way, some people do, but I'll just say and straight up like this is the price. And if we're moving blocks or cutting blocks because you chose to do the concrete, because you wanted to save money, now I've got to cut all the blocks, what are you cutting blocks for? Like, say, because you know a lot of builders will do their own concrete, we do our own concrete. Yeah, it's always good though, man but well, I don't.
Speaker 2:It must be, because I don't know why you mean. What are you cutting blocks for?
Speaker 1:meaning that if they do it, and then it's all the heights, yeah, nice you get that that many times. But then I'm thinking so now you're just passing that on to me.
Speaker 2:It's like yeah, yeah, that's fine, that's shit. That's poor supervision, too like yeah, but that a lot of that's the builders not setting up heights, and yeah, and supervising the concrete is, and yeah, like and I know, shit happens sometimes, but that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:If we make it from the start, I'm happy to cut them, mate.
Speaker 2:But that's, that's your issue, not my issue. 100 and you should be paid for every yeah, and that's I think your site, you're the builder, it's site, it's not my site.
Speaker 1:So if it goes down like this and we've got to walk the blocks down there because I supplied the blocks, it doesn't mean, oh, they're your blocks. It's like, yeah, but the Manitou can't get down there.
Speaker 2:It's your site.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that sort of stuff really shits me, so have something in place straight away to say I'm happy to do it, but you'll be paying me to do it yeah, yeah, no, that that's a real pain in the ass.
Speaker 2:And then, like my, all my trades know because, like, we set the standard with them, like if there's anything that is delaying what they do, like to a certain extent, like the tiler, like most jobs, we get the tiles in the garage, yeah, all near an external door, so they've simply just got to take them in. But, yeah, if there's any reason there was a hold up on our job or it was wet or it was muddy or whatever, and the men or two could only get the tiles to the front of the driveway, like I would either get my team to move them to where the toller needs them, yeah, or the toller charges me an hourly rate to move them, yeah, and I assume you would charge an hourly rate to do extra shit as well yeah but yeah, that to me that's all builders, just really poor supervision.
Speaker 2:Yeah so, and again, not pricing the work correctly, not knowing their data, not knowing that on the past basement job there was two days of labor to move blocks around yeah, well, that's what I think when I reached out to you and I was saying I wanted to find the why, like, what's the why?
Speaker 1:why is what's my why? And like I would ask my wife, I'd ask my, my parents, my mother-in-law, and be like, but why will they go with me if they can get old mate for this price? Like, even if you say, oh, you're a good bloke, he's a good bricklayer, stuff like that, but sometimes money. Meaning, if you know how to price the job, you probably will go with me because you want to build that relationship, but if you don't know how to price a job, you're gonna go for that guy every time.
Speaker 2:Like yeah, builders want the cheapest price because if they can save some money on what they've allowed, that's how they make their money at the end of the job, like yeah, and that's what's saying.
Speaker 1:Then, when you go back like the, the pushing down of price, that's what I just don't like now, now obviously getting more into my business, that I just don't even go back and forth with that, I just just say, okay, best of luck.
Speaker 2:It's got to be about value, yeah. So as a builder, I can't just take on my trades, just can't keep charging me more, because that just drives my price up and obviously you get to a point where you are pricing yourself out of the market. But my business I know I am 100% I never will be the cheapest price that anyone gets. Yeah, and that doesn't worry me. Like, we do a process now where our clients don't get other prices, but they trust me enough to know that I'm pricing it correctly. They want to know that I'm not going to go out of business during the job. Like profit's not a dirty word, yeah, and if you're building a house, it's a big investment and, as we've seen over the last few years, the last thing you want to be doing is choosing a builder that's struggling with cash flow or trading in solvent or, worse, going broke during your build.
Speaker 1:How do you feel then as a builder meaning for me like I'd be a subbie to you that wants to build like a certain business and obviously keep taking your work. But how do I price right, so you always pick me?
Speaker 2:for me it's all value. So you're no different to me employing a carpenter or a person in my business, so it's all about value. So what value will you add to my business? And I do the exact same thing to my clients, like my clients choose me because of the value I'm going to add to them so I get.
Speaker 2:We get our clients because I spend hours educating my clients. I'm open to any of the any, any material, any suggestion, any type of building they want to do like. I'll research it, I'll learn if I don't know it and then I'll educate them on what they want is possibly going to cost. So for me, they trust me. It builds authority. I get treated like a professional because they value the input and the education and the time I spend with them. So for me, tradies are exactly the same. So we're at a point now where we've, apart from a brickie, we've almost got two of every trade.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you've got two of every trade now, mate.
Speaker 2:But like the rate, like if, let's say, you were gonna, I was rang you to see if you could do a job for me, I would check what your rates are and see how it compared to my current bricky. Yeah, and if it was more, I'd we'd have a conversation like I'd try and find some more info out about you. Yeah, and then I'd we'd have a face-to-face and I don't let anyone do any work on my sites until we've sat down and had a face-to-face and just had a chat. Yeah, and then it's it's learning about how you operate. Yeah, because you might be you might be a dollar a brick dearer than my bricky, but you might have a bigger team that can meet my schedules better. Yeah, or you might have a bigger team.
Speaker 2:So, like time on sites, everything, like people don't again, people that don't know the data won't understand this but like you're fencing, you're toilet, you're silt barrier, like every day that we have our own team there, like it's all money, yeah, so like this basement we're doing next week, there's 1300 odd blocks in that. My brick is going to take four days. You might have a big team that'll get done in two days. So to me that's value. Yeah, so you might charge me a dollar a block more, possibly saving you two. But you're saving me two days on site, yeah, which means I can get my core fill down quicker. I can move on to this. Like to me that there's all those things that a lot of people don't think about, like yeah they're so focused on the actual price.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and and this isn't just for you, this is for homeowners as well, like homeowners with builders. Like builders are so focused on getting trying to get the price as low as they can to win the job for the client. But it's, it's all about the value. You have to add value. Yeah, and um, and obviously that comes with experience, it comes with knowledge and the other thing um, like a few of my trades, I know I could easily find cheaper. Yeah, but I never have to. Like I know everything they do is to code. Yeah, I know they're just as passionate about understanding building codes. Quality work is what I am. Yeah, um, they turn up when we want them to turn up. If, for any reason, there is another problem or it is a problem, they come and sort it out. Yeah, so it's.
Speaker 1:You can't make decisions based on price yeah, and that's what I try and say, like if, if there is a problem on the job and of course there is like I make mistakes still, but I will, I will rectify, like my mistake. Yeah, I wouldn't ever just be like, do you go and get fucked, I'm going somewhere else, like from a builder's point of view, like I think all you like tradies should.
Speaker 2:If you're trying to win work with a builder, like the first question you should ask is what, what can I do? Like, what's your current brick? You do now that you hate and figure out like find, yeah, yeah, break the ice by. Oh, we did that. That's just a standard. That's something we do every job, but like as a brickie, like one thing that used to really, or still, shits me. Um, our brickie does it, but the old brickie we used to use like they'd finish their block work or finish their brick work and they would not clean up the bottom yeah like, whereas our current bricky, while they're as they're wrapping up, the young fellow be going around the bottom with a rake and a shovel and when we get to site it's clean.
Speaker 1:All the scrap mortars all in the rubbish bin, like yeah so just little shit like that, like it's all adding value well, I had the other day like some block work was going to get rendered and then it it did need to be um jointed like. The builder made a like an error, telling me what it was. But then I thought you know what it probably is, both of us. So like, let I'll fix it for you, let's scrape it out. But then I just said to my boys from now, every job, even if it is rendered, join it, just so when the homeowner comes or someone comes, even if the builder's bringing his friend around who's another builder? Just look at the work.
Speaker 2:They're going to go.
Speaker 1:Wow, there's a point of difference there. It's nice and clean, even though it's going to get rendered. Who cares? But it might cost me a little bit of money. But if I'm going to make more money out of it, do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a tricky one, Bart, because if you rake them out too far, you'll always see the like it's hard to hide the joins anyway and render.
Speaker 1:But if the render doesn't, if they're using a shit render that doesn't put a decent thickness of render right, you're gonna see the joins.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but yeah, to me it's all value, like the more value you add, like the value that you add is far more important than what you charge.
Speaker 1:Yeah but then that that was the part where, like, I was stuck of the why I'm meaning but if I'm trying to build, like my business to be bigger, um, I've got so many builders that want to work with me because I know what we're doing, but because we need, like, how many jobs do you do like?
Speaker 1:five or ten, depending on size. Eight to fourteen, yeah, okay, but see for us, sometimes we might need five jobs for the week, yeah, so it's like it's every day like ringing hey, duane, blah, blah, blah. This is then the next person.
Speaker 1:So it's like you've always got to be onto it, because it's like yeah I don't know, there's not many bricklayers out there, but it's like they can just battle us between each other like, oh, he'll do it for five, he'll do it for four. But it's like, yeah, but all of us should know. Like, that's the price. Do you mean for your business to make some money?
Speaker 2:but the thing is no, it never will be like that man no, yeah, there's very few, and that's not just the building industry, that's all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like cafes, like and that's where I was stuck for a while everybody like yeah and again.
Speaker 2:That's. This is why this is so important. That's why it's got to be value, yeah, like, and that's why like it honestly does not matter what you charge yeah, like it's. It's more important you charge what you need for your business to cover its cost and to make money. And yeah, profit's not a dirty word. Like you have to get paid for the work you do. Yeah and um.
Speaker 2:The other like, obviously the other side of that is a lot of business owners are working for less than they're paying their staff. Yeah, and because they don't understand their numbers. Like use a brick as an example. Like because he's getting their money in from the builders for the total job, he doesn't. He thinks he's making a lot of money and if he's not doing the numbers and figuring out how much his cement costs, how much his sand costs, how much the brick ties cost, how much the damp course cost, and figuring out really what's left for him at the end of the day, he's probably working for less than what he's paying his brick layers. So it's, unless you're in that mindset and you're, you're doing the numbers, and most people don't do it because they it's in the too hard basket or they think they're not smart enough or they haven't got enough knowledge. But reality is it's not that hard. Yeah, like, and you will change your life very quickly when you start to understand your numbers. I'm sure it changed your confidence, yeah everything.
Speaker 1:I remember just telling builders. I would say, and after doing like waking up early, my mind was like ready to go. And I would have these conversations where I'd used to just be too easygoing, just be like all right, mate, yeah, I'll do that for you. And I was like, nah, I'm not doing that like this, is it? That's my price, they're my terms, otherwise go somewhere else. And I kept just winning the jobs. I was saying it like friendly yeah, but you're confident.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's what that me and my wife literally were looking at each other and she was just like what is happening at the moment, like I just was not not winning a job and pricing it to make money.
Speaker 2:It's so awesome to hear you talk about this stuff, because so many people I talk to it's like they think I'm talking shit and it's just a sales gimmick. But that's how your life changes Knowing your data. It completely changes the way you show up, changes the conversation you have with people and, like you said, it's not about being arrogant about it or rude about it.
Speaker 2:It's just the way that you talk about it, because you're confident, because once you know your numbers, the thing is, once you know you're not going below that you can't go back, and so if someone's having a conversation with you and trying to screw you down you, you would have to be stupid to go backwards. Yeah, so in because you've got that confidence, now you can easily say yes or no to the job. Yeah, and most people, if they come to you because of your quality or you're being recommended or whatever, they don't want you to say no. Yeah, they want you to do the job. Yeah, so then you've got to add value.
Speaker 1:Yeah that's right, and then just keeping that momentum going all the time and, like I said, because it's so constant, sometimes we'll have one job for the but then sometimes you need six for the week because you've got 500 blocks here, 1,000 there, that type of thing, but also pricing them right. So you're still winning the job because you need to keep your boys busy, like your boys need money.
Speaker 2:I want to go back a little bit before because something I wanted to get to. When we were talking about builders taking advantage of trades and stuff, especially when it comes to moving stuff around the site, we wrote our QuoteEase software and, although it's the best software in the industry for doing proposals and quoting and color-coded takeoffs and all these types of things, but the way we built it was a lot of it's to do with setting expectations. I'm not sure how you're presenting your quotes at the moment, but I'm hoping. If not, I'm going to give you some gold nuggets. But do you have a document that you give to your builders that says if the blocks are within or outside of this certain distance?
Speaker 2:that will be charged an hourly rate or if like. Another thing for bricklayers is if Cutting splits or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, excess cutting because they haven't taken the time to set out their windows and things. But um shit bricks, yeah, like we've. We've been in a few situations where um clients have provided the bricks, and so I make it very, very clear to the client if if there's something wrong with the bricks or you haven't because I'm not going to go count them like I'll work them out and I'll tell them what they need. But if bricky turns up to do his bricklayer bricks and these 200 bricks short and he can't finish, he's got to come back. That's going to be another charge. So do you have all those little clauses with your builders? No, I don't, why not? That's good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know. I thought you about to say how I um give my quote like it. It doesn't look like you're generic. Yeah, like I should print one out. I should have brought one in and showed you it looks good.
Speaker 2:So what do you provide a builder when you, when you, when a builder asks you for a price or to do a job?
Speaker 1:like because, because it's so constant, the little ones and um reoccurring builders that I always work for, obviously they'll just ring me hey, dylan, do you go and I've got this, I'll send you some plans, I'll work it out and do it. But a new builder, like I'll get the plans, price it up and then send quick I use QuickBooks, quickbooks and then I've got a like a bit of a pamphlet type thing. Yeah, so it looks like you're not just getting the price. Yeah, like just to show some recent work and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:So do you like, but how do you price Like? Do you like, but how do you price Like? Do you price like main malls, piers, sills? Yeah, I'll break it down.
Speaker 1:So I've got a estimator that works like part time my bigger, because I'm doing bigger jobs now. So I'll send my plans off to him and he comes back fully marked off like, and then I would send it to you to say here's my price, here's my markup. So then you could come back and say oh, actually we're going to change that wall to timber or something and oh, you've forgotten that wall.
Speaker 2:If that's the relationship, yeah, and then yeah, go from there, I'll work it back and price like that yeah, because, yeah, I think that's why we designed quote is why we did, because I I'm a massive believer that you're well quote or like. So my thing is, tradies provide quotes, builders provide proposals, but really we all should be providing proposals, and a proposal is not just a price. A proposal is a scope of works, a job description, listing out everything that you're going to do for the price. The really powerful part of a good proposal is setting expectations, and I I feel like tradies can't whinge about things if they haven't set or they either haven't asked questions or they haven't set a standard.
Speaker 2:So for me, as a builder, like you, as a brickie, if I got a quote off you like it doesn't happen on my jobs because I like I'm very good at working with my trades and I'm very even, like it's it's got to be an even playing field, like I don't expect them to lose money because I haven't organized my job properly. But for you, working with builders, whether you've worked with them for a long time or it's a new builder you're trying to reach out to, simply by having, you can either, like we put them as big, bold notes, um, but you could have if you had those notes that, um, all bricks must be within a certain vicinity, or all blocks must be blah, blah, blah, or um, even even something like, like you were saying before, you're starting to supply the the bricks and blocks. But like, if you, if your builders are supplying the bricks and blocks, like, how many times have you turned up to do a job and you've had to leave the job because they're short?
Speaker 2:yeah, so yeah, so who's that cost money? Yeah, cost me money, yeah yeah, doesn't cost the builder anything. No, that right, he'll just get the extra blocks and you'll come back and lay them. Yeah, you're the one that's lost time because you've either had to pack up early, you've lost half a day, quarter a day, or whatever. Then you've had to come back to do that half a day or quarter a day. So it costs you a lot more than you think. So you've got to be documented. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, that's what. My brother obviously runs his flooring business and would have been a year ago, and I was telling him I'm going to get this whatever. I can't remember what it was. But he was like, did you email it? And I was like, no, he's like quite it.
Speaker 2:You can build a template. It's all there, like literally, you go in, figure out your linear means and bricks, everything else is there. You just keep repeating it template, template, template. Yeah, but you should have those sorts of clauses, because if and then don't just give it to a builder, but the first time you're working with a new builder or you give it to a builder that hasn't seen it before, point it out to them and make them aware of it, because then there's no excuses.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but something as simple as that like bringing it up but also following up with. Yeah, it's got to be documented, yeah like documents are everything but so.
Speaker 2:Like well, builders do, but tradies definitely do. Like your proposals are the most powerful document in your business because it's setting expectations. So if you, you might end up with half a dozen like um, and they don't have to be big, long paragraphs like you, can just be simply if insufficient bricks or blocks are on site for us to complete our works.
Speaker 2:Callback charges yeah, there'll be a callback charge, or could be an establishment charge, because like you've got to set up a mixer, you've got to get shit organized like um, like it's a, it's a big deal to lay bricks like it's not like you just turn up and get your fucking trail out and walk on job.
Speaker 2:Like you probably spent on a new job first day. You probably spend an hour and a half, two hours getting everything sort of organized and set up. So charge a two-hour establishment fee, yeah, like, yeah, then making sure the right blocks are there, like, um, like, how many times have you like I'm not saying we're perfect like this job next week?
Speaker 1:yeah, I know, when you order the blocks and we get there and it's just h blocks there. Yeah, where's the fools in halfs?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah. So, um, so our blocky, like my supervisor did all the heights, highlighted a plan, went and seen the blocky and he's worked out all the quantities, rang me yesterday we went through them all, yeah, and I'm working through all the the numbers and I was like fuck, there's no, uh, clean out blocks for the 300 series on there. So I've worked them out myself and so if he's short, like I don't expect that to cost him, like he'll charge me an early rate. Or if he's got to run to linden's and grab some whatever like that, that'll be an extra to me. But again, we've got that relationship, yeah, so he makes it well, we've made it very clear together. Like, if certain things happen, I know what his early rate is and we just pay the early rate. Is the site good for?
Speaker 1:him the site, because have you picked up an E-block A 300 series E-block? Fucking hell, it'd have to be the heaviest block out there.
Speaker 2:I'm bringing three truckloads of deco in Monday morning to level it out. So the blocks, we can hopefully get the blocks within three metres from the footing.
Speaker 2:That's good, but again, that's. I haven't always done that, but again, like I said before, like the more efficient, the safer. And look, having a job on a three-story house on a steep block is never going to be perfect, yeah, but just working together as a team and trying to. So I think something that gets really overlooked in our industry is thinking about the next trade, and I'm onto my team's back all the time, like don't just leave shit all over the ground. Like we've got to make sure it's clean and safe for the blocky to come in and do his thing. And same deal when the block is in there like clean all his mortar and clean all his footings off so that we can come in and prep the slab. Yeah, everyone's got to think of each other. Yeah, I can see you're thinking about the proposal thing, mate. It'll, uh, we'll get you onto the quotas and sort you out. Um, so where's where to from now?
Speaker 1:like you've established that you, you want to be a business, not just a tradie so probably just learning, learning that like to pull away, to let go a little bit, that's probably my main thing, because I know I can get there and run around like get everything sorted, but probably letting go, letting someone take my role on site, which it it probably might go down a little bit, but it's not their business, which it probably will, they're not going to run it exactly how. I do because obviously I have invested interest, it's my business.
Speaker 2:So maybe that and just letting go a little bit like that- so do you talk to your team about your goals for the business so that other people within the business might want to step up?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I always it and say like I'm, I'm waiting for one of you to come and grab it, because that's how I started. Literally I was 21 I'm I think I was 22 when I moved to brisbane and I started working for this guy doing bricks. And I was good mate, I've always been good, and he was like this, this kid's good, and he wanted a foreman and I was nowhere near ready for it. But I was like you know what fucking I'm doing it and I didn't. That's the best thing I've ever done, because I just threw myself in there and I learned so much over those like four years.
Speaker 1:That's when I was like, oh, I'm going to do my own thing, yeah, and still didn't know everything. But it was just like sink or swim. And that's now how still I feel like people go like oh, why are you going to do that or not do that? I'm like, because I'd rather fail than not try. Yeah, like I would. I don't care if I fail, because if I fail, do you get me? No, okay, I'll go back and I think, look, it's really good.
Speaker 2:I hope this pod well. I really think this podcast is going to be inspiring for a lot of trades out there like it. It's a really good goal to have to get or step back a bit and look, it could be stepping back for half a day or a few hours a week or whatever, but, yeah, working towards a point where you're actually stepping back, yeah, and allocating time to run and grow and build the business, rather than working your ass off all day outside and then sitting in the office till 10 11 o'clock at night yeah, I've got, tuesdays is my office day now and that's awesome that I've just got to like take off, that they've said that you've got to just try and get into that.
Speaker 1:Go on site, let them know what they have to do and then, yeah, leave. But a big thing for me, probably the last two months or the last few sessions, was, um, write a list down of um priorities sorry, I couldn't think of the word then For myself as the business owner and you cannot like write them down for the day what it is your priorities as a business owner and you cannot go off that. So if someone rings you and says, oh, do you get what I mean, so-and-so's gone, because he feels sick In my head, like I would go, oh, it's not going to get finished, I'm going to get to side and smash some blocks in. It's like no, because that's not one of your priorities. Your priorities is do you get me meeting with duane at here? Then blah, blah, blah, all the blocks are here and then, once you finish them, your priorities are done for the day. Go do what you have to do on site. Yeah, where that was a hard thing, where I was like that's why people?
Speaker 2:that's the number one reason why people say they have no time, mate, because they haven't. They haven't valued their time and made their own priorities. Yeah, instead they're letting everybody else put their fires everywhere fill their time. Yeah, so that was a big thing and it's empowering, isn't it?
Speaker 1:yeah, literally I had it a month ago and then I listened to the podcast, which they do as well, and I was like literally what I needed that last week because I would have just been like sweet because I had like four boys off sick.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was like down to a skeleton crew where I was just like I've got to get this done, where it's like the flow and effect of that is like so your team know now that every tuesday, yeah, you're in the office, yeah, so, and I do my my business, call yeah, um and yeah office stuff and then if I'm done, then I'll come on site.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I want it like slowly.
Speaker 2:That will go to two to like eventually as the business grows yeah, yeah that's a massive call, like huge call, like taking that first um leap in scheduling your time yeah and whether it's a full day or half a day or whatever, like it's massive, but you've obviously seen the power of it already well, you do it.
Speaker 1:do it Cause when I didn't do it, literally I would just you forget about it. So if you write it down and do it like and it might only be one or two things, like meaning, I'm like just I was about to say just a bricklayer, but meaning I might not have. Like you might have 20 things, someone might have 30 things, I might only have three things. Now go do the next part.
Speaker 2:So how's that? Is that Tuesday in a calendar, in a schedule?
Speaker 1:Yeah, every Tuesday I've got the call 9 to 10.
Speaker 2:And I can go to site before, but but it's in a Google schedule or calendar or something yeah every Tuesday and do you like physically seeing that in the calendar? Is that big for you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like to see like yeah, I like my wife likes Google Calendar. Yeah, which I've got that. But I like to like my office. I have to see things, so maybe I'll change to the digital way.
Speaker 2:I've been on the Google thing for a few years now. I think it's freaking awesome, like my wife. It's shared, like it's free. It's fantastic Like I can. It's fantastic like I can see everything she's doing. She can see everything I'm doing, like don't have to check with meetings or catching up with friends or whatever, but what are we doing?
Speaker 1:this day, yeah, yeah well I had one for the boys because obviously we would have jobs here with today we're here, tomorrow we're here. So I just had the month filled out so I wasn't just texting every night do you get me, we're here today, that's awesome tomorrow. So it was like i't want those texts meaning, because it's just another thing that I have to do.
Speaker 1:Sunday afternoon yeah, it's like no you look on it, don't ask me, you look on it and that's where we are Bombs mate Bombs, dropping bombs, and even for your team, like being able to see a month ahead.
Speaker 2:That's going that, knowing what's ahead of them and what's coming up, oh and they could also go.
Speaker 1:Do you get me? We've got I don't know two little jobs there or something. If I put a description that they might go I was going to go away for the weekend it's like, yeah, that's probably like a good time to go, yeah. So yeah, do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my advice is just keep building off that schedule. I don't know how detailed you are in there, but I. The reason I can get so much done is purely because my schedule's yeah done like every client meeting every. So in my journal and my diary I have all like the priority tasks that I need to do and I'm like if they're not all crossed out by the end of the day, I get a bit anxious and stuff like the last thing I want to do is have to put a note to say finished yesterday's my wife would love hearing this, because she'll be like I've been telling you to bloody do that for 10 years.
Speaker 1:She'd always be like write them down and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:I'd be like, ah, it's all right, but we all do, mate, it's all in my head mate, I tell everybody that has reaches out to me like the first thing, the number one thing to get you on track to help you out in your life, like, is to personal schedule. Yeah, like and I don't know what it is like, I know like I'm an indigo. I don't know if you've looked at personas and personalities and things, but once you understand the type of personality you are, it changes how you do everything, because you understand why you do things. So I'm a very visual person and so for me to have a schedule that. So one of the first things I do every morning when I get up is go and grab a glass of water and look at my phone and I'll check my schedule. And my schedule basically starts from quarter to five and so people think that sounds crazy but like from quarter to five to around six, except for the days I go to gym, there's all tasks in there. Generally those tasks are from my Live Life Build team, so it'll be a list of calls that I have to make for the day, or Camille might have put a list of calls in there to call quotas, users or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then generally from 6 30 it starts. It'll either be a site, me with the team or client meeting or whatever it is, but it basically just goes through all my day, yeah, and then, uh, right through until 9 pm, like I have a reminder to go to bed. But for me to be able to every morning, just it calms me, like to be able to look at my calendar every morning and see what's happening in my day, see where I got some spare space, see where I can pull over and have lunch or whatever. It calms me and I just in my mind, I just flow, whereas in the past when I didn't have that like I couldn't sleep because every night I went to bed, it had just been in my mind, like Because every night I went to bed, it would just be in my mind like what have I got to do tomorrow? Who have I got to try and see? Oh shit, I've got to call those people. Oh fuck, I didn't do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so it was just a mess, yeah, and so I didn't sleep really well and then wake up in the morning and then literally just a shit show. And then that would happen all day. I'd be racing from job to job, meeting to meeting, people would be ringing me, and I'd get to the end of the day and just like I'd be rooted and I'd think to myself what did I do? What did I actually achieve? Today? All I did was everything that everybody else wanted me to do.
Speaker 1:You've got a personal schedule, it's huge and if you're already doing one day a week, like the power you will get if you just keep building on that, yeah, it's huge and that's what they're trying. Like you always say, obviously the business owner giving your, your boys, more like freedom, because then it makes them better as well. That meaning that they know that's tuesday.
Speaker 1:Like you can't call me between then because my phone I won't answer but if there's a problem on site, they've got to resolve it, yeah yeah, and then they'll get better from it. And it's like I know that they're probably looking for comfort or something from me being on site.
Speaker 2:That's all it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's like but you can do it. You're just as good as me at laying bricks. Yeah, the builder's there. Do you get me? I mate. What do you want us to do here?
Speaker 2:It's unbelievable, isn't it Like? If people, if their mindset in their mind, they know that they can pick up the phone and ring you, they just don't think yeah, so everything's a drama, yeah, and you have to fix it. But because you've now told them that on Tuesdays you're not there, yeah, they won't even think to call you. They'll just know that on Tuesday.
Speaker 1:And then it's like so, then if you do come with, hey, I want to step up and be, because I'll know I can do that. It's like all right that's good, because then that gives me more free time, but not free time to sit at the beach or go on a boat to work on my business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's unreal, mate, and yeah, I'm keen to see where you go with it all and what you achieve from it.
Speaker 1:So like is your plan to have multiple crews? Or like does it work? Because I I think, yeah, the bigger you get, like obviously it's probably I was just about to say the messier it will get, like bigger. But meaning, if you've got structure in your business the whole time, maybe not, but now I, I want to stay around, say 10, 10 people that work for me. Um, maybe split them off into two crews or one big crew to do things, but yeah, just keep working like that yeah and just uh.
Speaker 2:So you, you're addicted to personal development.
Speaker 1:Yet yeah, I've got. Well, I've got um, actually me, my mate, who's a builder. We're getting um our office space because I want to get my office. I've got two kids so obviously when I'm in there they love coming in there and drawing on my whiteboards and rubbing them out. So I'm like I need to get out of here, but also like it's an expense. But to myself I'm thinking, yeah, so go out there like go get that money somewhere, then bring it in. Yeah, but it's going to make me better. And then also have a builder like I could say, come, come to the office and we'll have a look like go over the plans. Yeah, meaning in my head, because I'm thinking not many bricklayers are doing that, so what's something I can just win on them, somehow making me a little bit different again yeah, awesome mate.
Speaker 2:Well, we'll, um, we'll wrap it up. What is there anything before we get out of here like that you um want to talk about, or nothing, we got it mate no all good, yeah nothing, uh, nothing you want to point out about brickies I should do.
Speaker 1:we know that should do. We're all the best.
Speaker 2:No well, mate, look, appreciate the conversation. It's been a cracker and yeah, just keep doing what you do, keep an eye on it and reach out if you need any advice or whatever, but I'm keen. We might have to do a job together See how you go, mate, sweet Got it. But look, guys, thanks for listening. I hope you've enjoyed today's podcast. Please share, like comment, all those things, because I am on a mission to create a new building industry and you can hear from the guests like Dylan that we've had on today If all trades and all builders and everyone in our industry gets on just running better businesses, understanding your data, being more business people rather than just tradies, our industry will be so much better, our lives will be better and our clients will get better projects. So, um, thanks very much for making this australia's number one construction podcast. Are you ready to build smarter?
Speaker 1:live better and enjoy life, then head over to live likebuildcom forward slash elevate to get started.
Speaker 2:Everything discussed during the Level Up podcast with me, dwayne Pearce, is based solely on my own personal experiences and those experiences of my guests. The information, opinions and recommendations presented in this podcast are for general information only, and any reliance on the information provided in this podcast is done at your own risk. We recommend that you obtain your own professional advice in respect to the topics discussed during this podcast.