Level Up with Duayne Pearce
I take on the role of an authoritative voice that fearlessly communicates truths drawn directly from my lived experiences. With a genuine sense of ownership, my insights are free from any hidden agendas – they truly belong to the audience. My stories and journey add remarkable value, the key now lies in harnessing its power effectively to help others.
My purpose is to create a new residential building industry. My mission is to inspire unshakable self-confidence in my colleagues in the industry, empowering them to orchestrate prosperous, enduring, and lucrative businesses that bring exceptional projects to fruition for our clients.
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Unlock the secrets to real estate success with Clinton Vertell, a trailblazer in the industry known for his innovative approach and passion for empowering others. Discover how Clinton overcame initial uncertainties to build an impressive career, and learn about his strategies for setting record prices and navigating challenging market conditions. His journey reveals the vital role of a strong team, effective marketing, and a commitment to ethical practices, providing a blueprint for achieving financial freedom and professional fulfillment in real estate.
Check out Clint at Belle Property here...
https://www.belleproperty.com/redcliffe/clinton-viertel
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there were nights not that I didn't sleep, but there were nights where I was like, holy, have I done the right thing.
Speaker 2:You're a very driven person. Yes, um, you're a pocket rocket.
Speaker 1:It's not about me. It's not. It's about my staff getting better and it's about not me earning all the money. It's about helping johnny become a great agent so he can have the financial freedom that I do g'day guys.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to aust, to Australia's number one construction podcast. We are back in the shed this afternoon for another cracking episode, something very different for you today. I've been looking forward to this one for a little while, but today we've got Clinton Vertell. We've had a relationship for quite a while. Clinton has two Bell property real estate agents. He's also been on dancing ceos which, uh, go and check it out on youtube, thanks and he's also involved in a couple of software companies. So, um, today, yeah, I really want to dive into clinton's journey and also talk about developing, how you find properties for developing and developers and all those types of things, but just the real estate market and what you do, mate.
Speaker 1:Yep, how are you? I'm great Thanks for the invitation. Yeah, I've been obviously listening to not all of you, not all the podcasts, but I've been watching and tracking your progress and what you guys do is fantastic. Cheers, mate. Yeah, and is it Lewis? Is this the guy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Lewis is coming up tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Obviously that was just hearing that story that you shared and his journey sort of coming back into having the confidence to start back up in building businesses. Mate, that's life-changing stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, that's what the podcast is all about, mate. Like I'm on a mission to create a new industry, but it's become a real passion, like it's sharing stories and inspiring people, and I think your story will inspire people today. It's an interesting one, but before we jump into your story like we've we've um like we.
Speaker 1:We have a mutual friend, which I think was a little bit to do with our first connection, Correct?
Speaker 2:The Campbells, yeah, the Campbells. And then you, we engage you to sell a couple of them.
Speaker 1:I didn't know, I didn't have the business, I had to go and pitch for it. Engage you to sell a couple of them? I didn't know, I didn't have the business, I had to go and pitch for it. That was at Fernley. Oh, mate, I can never.
Speaker 2:We did a townhouse development and Clinton turned up in white pants on a rainy day. It was muddy as anything. Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:I'll never forget it. I had a pair of moccasin shoes, on which I'm wearing a pair today, but they, you, uh, people don't think I wear socks, but I do wear socks. Um, but when, camille, when she escorted me through the work site, some of your boys were looking at me going who the fuck is this dude? Uh, so I didn't look at home on the work site, but that's like I didn't get anything on me, which is a good thing.
Speaker 2:So no, it's been an incredible relationship. You um, you also now, uh, currently property manage, manage a couple of our properties. We do, we do, but, like you're very good at what you do.
Speaker 2:Like the townhouses that you sold for us got a record price for a townhome in the suburb. We should sort of kept them to now, but that's Well, mate, even back when we sold them like it was a record price. And then another property which we built on the Redcliffe Peninsula which you ended up getting involved with as well, I did, yeah, 80 Prince Edward Parade. It also sold for a record price and you were just saying, what's that been? Three years? That was two years in July and it still holds the record.
Speaker 1:Still holds the record, that's 80 Prince Edward Parade, if you're on the net. An amazing full renovation in addition to a property that held a lot of interest on the peninsula because it was an old uniting church. It's an old nuns Convent home Convent, yeah, yeah, that they used to use for holidays for the nuns. So what you did there on that property was just obviously to retain the existing dwelling and then repurpose it and recycle what you could. Yeah, it was very special, so we took that to auction and that for me, was an uncontested listing. So if any agents out there who are listening, it means you go in. And because Dwayne had spoken to Kerry about my services, yeah, I don't. Well, to my knowledge, there was no other agents that were pitching for that business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I just I talk about it a lot on the podcast To be successful, you've got to have good people around you and build teams Correct, and so the success we've had with property and the ones you've been involved with is it's about great design, great building, great position and then finishing off with bringing someone like yourself in that can cap it off and bring it home.
Speaker 1:Well, look, we don't win every listing that we pitch for. But we see some of the mistakes that are made out there where people want to shortcut on marketing and they might have a great product and this is somebody who's done a renovation on a home and if they then go to market and they try to squeeze an agent on commission or marketing, they go to the bottom of the barrel. And then some of the agents actually well, I'm not going to put as much effort into it because they're only going to pay me a pittance, yeah, that's when you get to that position. You don't want to be short-changing on that side of it. Yeah, and you've got to look at, obviously, who's selling what and how they do it. I mean, it's not just about the number. We do deals and Johnny is one of my co-agents. He's also a plumber by trade.
Speaker 1:Camille just gave us a mixer that we've got to put into the place at um one of our properties yeah, one of your properties. Um, so we did a deal, which settled yesterday, and, um, the drainage from the guttering was venting to the, to the ground, so there was no actual drainage. Um, the sellers weren't going to give a reduction on the on the price the contract price and the buyers weren't going to buy it without having drainage. So we we were doing some other works there, but we had an excavator there to build a pit, so we did it at my cost. So these are the things that you do in real estate. Sometimes the agent's commission is in the middle of actually getting a deal done, so you've got to think about creative ways to keep things moving to a direction. Otherwise everyone walks away and you start back from scratch. So my business is all about not standing in the way and not giving away money where we don't need to, but ensuring that we're not the reason that a deal falls apart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, mate, to go back a few steps, you're a very driven person. Yes, you're a pocket rocket. Where's all that come from? How did you get into real estate?
Speaker 1:Well, it's a passion, I suppose. And some of the other old heads in real estate and in the Bell Property Network who've been doing real estate for 20 years, they said to me, mate, where does the energy come from? It comes from passion. Now you've got passion for your building industry and now obviously helping people with their I suppose, reigniting their passion, which is the Lewis story. I'm still a shareholder in a couple of software businesses that specialise in real estate.
Speaker 1:And then a very good friend of mine was selling off the plan developments for Traders in Purple on the peninsula and he was into me, probably from 2005 onwards, saying, mate, you have to get into real estate on the Wrecliffe Peninsula. No disrespect to any of the old school agents on the peninsula, but it was then and in some cases it still is pretty backward in terms of adoption of technology, best practice and all that sort of stuff. So he badged me for a couple of years until we actually sat down and put some numbers together. And then it was a case of well, if we do this, who are we going to go with? Bell Property on face value, as a boutique agency looked appealing. We spoke to them, we spoke to McGrath, who still don't have an office office on the peninsula, but I think they're talking about opening one up. They've got one at North Lakes.
Speaker 1:Um, so obviously, boutique brands, yeah, long story short. Um, bell Properties motto, I suppose, is fewer, better people. Yeah, so you can have a team. But if you look at some of our competition I'm not going to name any businesses but they might have an office with 30 staff. We've got an office with eight staff. We produce more than those guys, so, um, that just sort of goes to show the level of staff that we've got around in our team. It's like with your stuff if you've got a guy who's not producing the quality, well, how long can he stay in your business? Because you've got to go back and fix it all the time.
Speaker 2:You can't afford to do that yeah, but just to go back a little bit, like everyone's hearing us talking about peninsula. So, um, clinton and we used to live over there on the reg of Peninsula, so it's about what is it? 24ks north of Brisbane.
Speaker 1:North of Brisbane yep, so accessible to Brisbane CBD as well as the airport, which is a massive selling feature for anybody who's looking to move.
Speaker 2:But you're right on Moreton Bay oh mate, you're 30 minutes in a decent boat to Moreton Island, like it is an incredible place, but it's literally the only what in the last five years that it's had some decent money come into it. Correct? Well, there's been decent money there, but I guess, rather than decent money, there's a new stage of Newport that opened up Yep Stockland and that brought in a new flair to building, and in the last five years there are some incredible homes popping up on the peninsula there's a couple of different builders.
Speaker 1:One of them is quite prominent is Monster Homes. They're doing a lot up there. Cma do a lot of builds but equally you've done a renovation of a place on Australia Court 56.
Speaker 2:We've done some big dollar jobs there for some private clients that don't, oh sorry. No, those ones are fine. Okay, we've done renovations on some sort of $7 million and $10 million homes on the peninsula.
Speaker 1:Which is interesting. When you talk about properties like that, I mean that's big coin, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's incredible how many wealthy people there are in Redcliffe.
Speaker 1:Yep, well, it used to be Deadcliffe, but COVID obviously created a set of circumstances where people were looking for a lifestyle change and to move to the coast. I set of circumstances where people were looking for a lifestyle change and to move to the coast. I grew up at Boondall and we never spent time as kids in Redcliffe. We went to the Sunshine Coast because that's where the grandparents were and that's where we gravitated to. If you think about Sandgate, sean Cliff, brighton beautiful spot, but when the tide is out you're looking at mudflats. Now we have this discussion with certain people who are looking at over that area as well, but if you're looking at the water over in Brighton versus off the tip of Scarborough, it's more beautiful up there in Scarborough and now it's got the dolphins and now it's got the dolphins.
Speaker 1:I'm a Bronco supporter from way back when I do have one foot in each camp. So, yeah, everything that's happening in Redcliffe. If you said that this would have happened 10 years ago, people would go no mate, no way, I mean to have an NRL team that's a huge commitment Massive and that in itself is huge for the Peninsula To see the people they get at the stadium there now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's packed.
Speaker 1:We've got a game next Thursday night. I don't know when this podcast is going to be out, but I've got a couple of tickets if anybody's interested in coming along to one of the boxes that we have.
Speaker 2:But what about before that, before the software?
Speaker 1:So phone systems and photocopiers, that sort of stuff. So that's where I cut my teeth as an agent. I was actually talking to Lachlan, my oldest son, last night because he said oh, what did you used to do before real estate, dad? So from 2001, it was selling phone systems, photocopies in Telco, where I cut my teeth as a salesperson. And then obviously you have the GFC hit, where everything sort of died down. So there's been a few blips on the radar in terms of those circumstances. And then obviously the COVID pandemic was something that nobody knew, like I don't know about you, like we were told by the Office of Fair Trading we couldn't do open homes, and then we could only do privates, and then we couldn't even do that With by the Office of Fair Trading we couldn't do open homes, and then we could only do privates, and then we couldn't even do that with your building sites. It was just shut down.
Speaker 2:Well, no, queensland got through it a lot better than most oh 100%. Well, we finished that townhouse, the complex where you sold one.
Speaker 2:We literally were finishing that job and I think you were going to do the first open home and then lockdown. They announced that COVID's shutting the country down. Yep, and yeah, we shit our pants for a bit but, um, it didn't last that long and, yeah, you ended up being able to do some open homes and we, um, we kept moving, but COVID really changed, I guess, the playing field for everybody. Like you had to think outside the box, and the reason I like to dig into your story a little bit is because something I'm really passionate about now is so many people are stuck doing a job that they don't like, or they have a business that is actually a bad paying job because they don't know how to run it or improve it or grow it or any of those types of things. So, yeah, by hearing your background, where you come from, but you, you've obviously had a few pivots throughout your career.
Speaker 1:I have, I, but at the core of it. Real estate is nothing more than it's customer service and trust. Yeah, you can have the best marketing engine sitting behind you, but if you're not a good human, like the good humans will always rise to the top. And if you think that the top is the one who sells the most, not necessarily always the case. There's some people that are operating on the Redcliffe Peninsula who are very good in the lounge room selling themselves, but they're not the best human and we see and we know things that happen with deals that could have been handled better, because real estate is stressful.
Speaker 1:I mean, I can't remember the days on market at Fernley, but every seller just goes through this merry-go-round of wow, are we going to sell? We're under contract, what about the conditions? And it's just. Our job is to try to take as much friction out of that process as possible through our experience and, mate, I'm learning stuff with every single transaction. There's stuff that happens that you go, wow, yeah, and I help and apply that just to nurture the way that it all happens.
Speaker 2:And so all all my experience in sales have sort of led me to like the core of it, being good human yeah, we've had quite a few dealings with you and and we've done a lot of dealings with other real estate agents as well over the years and you are just, you're very equal. Like we've done deals with real estate agents that, and especially when we're trying to buy another investment property or something and, like I can't believe, some agents will go, oh look, mate, just offer this and they'll, they need the money.
Speaker 1:So that's when they're working for the buyer. Yeah, when we well, you're supposed to operate in the interest of the seller, they're the ones that are paying you, but yeah there's Some people just want to get a deal, get the cash. Now if you're on the buy side of that and do their business, yeah, they're never going to rise to the top.
Speaker 2:And the thing is, and look, I'll put my hand out. We've bought properties off people like that, but I would never go back to them to sell it.
Speaker 1:No, no, absolutely right Because you know what they're going to work. And then if you do sell it and they go oh, why didn't you call me? It's like do you remember the way that the negotiation went down? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's quite a bit of money that's being left on the table on the Redcliffe Peninsula. Now we can't sell every property. And again, do I say that we're the best? I know that our process, I believe our process is the best. Is that going to get the best result every single time? Consistency will always lead us to the fact that I think, consistently, we're up there. There's some outlying results A property recently sold off market for four million dollars on key circuit, which is a beautiful monster built home. That has sort of set a benchmark. Um, so people are looking at going wow, four million dollars. I mean that's a lot of coin when you when you add on the, the costs for stamp duty and the other likes, then it's, it's considerable, it's insane.
Speaker 2:Well, you look at that, um, I'm not sure the name of it, but that the, that loop road that goes around from the new set of shops yeah, so that's that's key circuit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like there would be two dozen houses on that road. Yes, over four million dollars, easy, like, and and probably some approaching six and eight million dollars. Yep, yep, um. And to think that, like five, six years ago, if you had a said, hey, reckless, gonna have multiple houses over four or five, six million people will laugh at you, they would have, and there's more coming.
Speaker 1:Mind you the Stockland development. The last track that they are subdividing is on Coolum Parade. Once that's done, it's over, Unless there was somebody talking the other day going oh, the Redcliffe Airport's going to be resumed and they're going to do something there whether that happens in the future or not, but there's more people that want to move to the peninsula than there are properties available.
Speaker 1:So when you talk about price growth, if there's a supply and demand imbalance, there is always going to be price growth. A lot of the buyers that I've seen six months, 12 months, 18 months, two years, still haven't bought and they're telling me I'm just waiting for the prices to drop. Yeah, they aren't dropping prices to drop. Yeah, they aren't dropping. No, they're not. So it's just a case of how much are they going to go up? For the 24 months to the last 12-month period, I think the price growth figures were about 36% Growth Growth, Pretty much spearheaded by Scarborough and a lot of the canal homes in Newport. Fair enough Stuff on Australia Court, the big blocks, the older homes, the quality homes.
Speaker 2:So, being in the real estate game, do you get all the figures, average across the country and those sorts of things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so RP Data obviously can provide you with a snapshot at any given time when you look at.
Speaker 2:Oh, you brought them with you, mate.
Speaker 1:Come prepared. I did come prepared. So obviously I specialise in Scarborough and Diane is one of my business partners at Newport. Our office there, the Newport when you look at this, is a little graph here, right, and this is showing this is where it got up to 40% price growth. Now the downward trend there was when all of the interest rate rises. So if you look at trends, well what happened here to cause that All those interest rate rises, 12 in a row? That gave people pause to go. Hang on, what are we doing here? Because up to this point it was multi-offers and people were just offering what they needed to get to do to buy the house. Scarborough, it's the same trend. Yeah, so that was 40 odd percent, so it was 36 to 40 percent.
Speaker 1:And now we're in a confidence is into the market at the moment because we haven't had an interest rate rise for I don't know four cycles now in the Reserve Bankers Only meeting every six weeks, not every month. So they're stretching out the time between. So we've got a confidence sort of level where people are happy with their mortgage repayments and they're confident to get back into the market If there's a cut and the media is saying in the last week. Oh, there's another rise coming. But that's just the media. Yeah, it's just type. They're just trying to look at the inflation numbers and whatnot and try to just tell the market just to cool their jets. I'm seeing in my businesses, days on market are coming in. That means that people are being more decisive.
Speaker 2:So that's, oh, that's our metric, yeah, um but when you're like with anything, you've got to look like. I can't stand the media, I don't listen to radio, I don't know those types of things.
Speaker 2:But you've got to look at everything as a over a long period, correct, but you can't make any decisions based off a day or a week or even a month when you're looking at growth and those types of things. You've got to look over a longer period, like two, three, five years Ten years in Brisbane used to be you doubled in value.
Speaker 1:In that time I bought a property myself with my wife and it doubled in just on. Doubled in value in three years, yeah shit. So a guy from Melbourne came up and then COVID hit and then it was just a property that we wanted and I've got a long-term view. Yeah, I've been putting my money where my mouth is in real estate, especially in Scarborough, because that's where we live and that's what we love. But this is long-term hold. My goal is to get as much land as I can over the next two to three years with a view of what's happening leading into the olympics. Yeah, which is, like you think, sydney 2000. There is no reason why we won't have the growth associated with everything else in the media spotlight that's going to be the olympics in whenever it is 2032 yeah, but how do you think it'll go?
Speaker 2:I'm the same, but I believe, once the olympics is done and d, it's either going to drop a bit or it will level off dramatically.
Speaker 1:Look, I can only talk about the Redcliffe Peninsula, but it's a beautiful place to live and I believe that the whole southeast Queensland area, in comparison to Sydney and Melbourne markets, is still value for people who have a different mindset. There's so many people moving here there are.
Speaker 2:Look, actually, you would know, has Redcliffe been zoned a city? I think yes, it has.
Speaker 1:Well, they were talking about it at the end of last year and I never sort of saw it.
Speaker 2:It's a zoned city Because they were saying, when I was reading all the information on that, well it was Moreton Bay, so it was Moreton Bay Shire Council and they were chaining it or Morton City or something. But when I was reading the numbers on that and doing some research, like I think late last year so late 2023, that Morton Bay Shire Council had I think it was like 380,000 people or something 360,000 people, Right, and they were predicting that by I think it was 2028, it was going to over double Wow. So they're talking like 700,000, 800,000 people in that area and that's why so it was going to overtake. It was going to go Brisbane, Gold Coast, Redcliffe, Wow, or Moreton.
Speaker 1:Bay, Yep, which it is that beautiful. At some stage we are going to have that population growth, but the infrastructure at the moment can't handle it.
Speaker 1:There isn't enough housing but if you think about Redcliffe now, a lot of the Bogan aspects of it sort of moved out to D-Bay. Now D-Bay as a hotspot in 10 years' time is going to be like Redcliffe sort of is today. So if you have a long-term view, get the biggest property on land you can get up there that is not going to cost you a lot to maintain, so something brick and tile. And if you just close your eyes and put some tenants in there, in 10 years time, yeah you'll, you'll be one of the smart ones, because those people are then being pushed out towards caboolture that's what a lot of people don't um realize with real estate, is it like you see so many people that make like we've actually got a client at the moment?
Speaker 2:that's I rang you about there. Yes, on the hunt for a house in redcliffe, but they have made their money because they bought a 20 or 30 acre block on the outskirts of cabalcha and waited for it to be 20 years ago. Yeah, for what? Would have been a few hundred thousand dollars and it's now worth over 20 million dollars. Yeah, that's that's.
Speaker 1:You know what those opportunities are out there right now, if you think about where things are pushing. Yeah, they're out there, but so, but it's not going to cost you 300 grand to buy something of that size, but it's. It might cost you a million bucks, yeah, but to then turn that into that's gonna be 40 million bucks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, at that time, yeah you've got to be thinking long term you do, but who I mean?
Speaker 1:there's, I mean there's a lot of money and whereas, if you've identified, there's a lot of money being invested in the red clip peninsula right now. I and we've spoken about it before going when's it going to stop?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I think people don't and I know from my experience and the developments we've done. And look, I was naive back in the day and you'd buy things based off what you saw on the news and what you were getting told. But, knowing what we know now and, like you the fundamentals Well, you pay money, like the last development. Well, even when we did that firmly like we paid a pretty substantial fee to get a data analysis done on the Redcliffe Peninsula, did you.
Speaker 2:We got this. I think it cost us a bit over $7,000 and it was over 300 pages Really Did you read it all. No, mate, I didn't read all of it, honestly. The stuff that I read in there, it told us everything the council had on the cards trains, bus lines, buddy wow, road upgrades. Like it gave us everything, yeah, but doing that gave us the confidence to make the investments that we did because you you obviously the spec that you put on that particular development.
Speaker 1:I mean you bought the, the site well, um, at the time, um, so there's obviously profit locked in there. But you went and, by comparison, there's a development next door and you're yours, and that was sort of like chalk and cheese.
Speaker 2:Chalk and cheese. Oh, it was chalk and cheese, mate, and everyone thought we were crazy. Everyone's like why are you doing this to this level when that thing's next door there?
Speaker 1:Yes, Well, and it still mate, it still looks great, it's still the best in that area, yeah 100%.
Speaker 2:And yeah, look, I'm grateful we held on to a couple of them, but grateful we held on to a couple of them. But, um, look, then selling that one for the record price at the front was awesome. And she's she's an awesome lady, we talk to her regularly. But, yes, um, so, mate, what do you like to go down? The development path? A little bit like do you get people reaching out to you? Uh, looking for developments we 100.
Speaker 1:So there's a lot of splitter blocks, um like a lot of 810s, where people are either putting townies on them or they're doing just a couple of subdivisions a subdivision, I suppose and obviously a couple of spec homes. An 810 square block these days is probably going to run you between one, three to one, five, depending on how close it is to the water. They can get down to the one, one, one, one, two sort of range where they then obviously split up the guts and you've got two 10.1 frontages which put on them.
Speaker 2:So how's it work for people that are listening that because most people's goal is to get some sort of an investment or definitely in the building and trade area, like people want to do, possibly do their own projects and things like I know you and I, like I've rung you about a few things like what is the, what's the way that things should happen, like can a guy ring you up and say, hey, I'm looking at doing a development, can you give me any inside information to some properties that are coming on the market?
Speaker 1:Yeah, look, we do not a lot of off-market stuff because, unless the circumstances dictate that it needs to go off-market, we don't tend to because I can't guarantee that it's the best price if there's no competition. But there's a couple other guys that we deal with. One's a buyers agent on the peninsula who has done quite a few land subdivisions and developments. He's got a lot of insight. But I haven't done by myself.
Speaker 1:When we recently bought our place up on Turner Street, we kept Margaret Street because we wanted to retain as much as possible and when you think about the stamp duty implications, you're just tossing it into the bin. It's like let's just find a way to make it work. Um, but we will retain that place at market street to do a development at some stage. Um, my wife and I, amanda, we had plans to have you build a house on that site, which would be just a complete knockdown. Rebuild, um, mate I, the stuff that we've seen you do and our mindsets like it's probably going to cost two million bucks, but to do it properly it doesn't, mate, it doesn't, but to do it properly.
Speaker 2:It doesn't mate. It doesn't cost money to do it properly. It costs money to meet people's expectations, Right? Well, there you go.
Speaker 1:And, having never done it, people come to properties that we have listed and say, oh, I can get the land and build it for that, yeah, but you can't. If you actually went and talked to you or talked to any of the builders that are out there and actually got a quote, and then you thought, how much can I buy this vacant block of land for? And there's not many vacant blocks getting around, especially in scarborough, yeah, um, they're kidding themselves. I don't be disrespectful people, but unless you've actually done the numbers and you know the numbers don't come and tell me what a place is worth, because if you actually understood the numbers, you'd go, oh geez. And then it builds value in where we're talking because you cut out all the issues with the building and if it's nicely renovated. So anything that's really nicely renovated now holds a premium.
Speaker 2:I think, if you do, and I guess a bit of a disclaimer, this is all our personal opinions and we're not telling you to go out and do anything.
Speaker 1:I'm not a financial advisor.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you need to make your own decisions and get your own advice and stuff. But I've found like we have some rental properties that are just cheap shit. They're just simply there to create passive income and that's all they're for. But, like I know, ones that we've done ourselves and then we do like we're definitely not a builder that people come to to build flip because we just don't do that low quality of work.
Speaker 2:But we do get clients that come to us. We've done lots of them now. Where clients want to push, like Kerry, we did another one in at Northgate for one of our clients where people want to push the boundaries. They want a nice property, they want to build a great family home, they want good quality, and then they bring someone like yourself in that's going to market it to the right crowd and it makes it worthwhile. You get your money back.
Speaker 1:You do, well, you should. But again, whatever circumstances we deal with stuff that deceased estates or divorces, that's nobody else's business except for those people. But we hear some stories where an agent will use that. Oh look, they're divorcing. If you put an offer in here, I reckon I can convince them to take it. Imagine being the vendor in that situation and finding out. I suppose that that's the conversations that are being had on your behalf. Yeah, I mean shit when people are going through that sort of stuff. That's just. Yeah, you've just got to do things the right way. Yeah, 100%, and that's what I've always liked about you, mate. Like you always wear your heart on your sleeve, you put in 100, like well, 120, but you, you gotta, you gotta if you stop. And that dancing ceos thing and thanks jay for bringing that up um, I didn't know that it was going to cost that much financially to me. Um, and I wouldn't have changed it for the world. Um, I would have been a bit smarter with my time.
Speaker 2:So what do you mean by that? Because I think this is a good point to explain to people that have a business.
Speaker 1:Well, if you take it off the ball, like Tom Panos is a trainer and he sort of bangs on about what you do today will manifest in three months, all right. So the little extra phone calls that you make today will create a relationship that could and, if it should, manifest, if you do it the right way, in three months time. So, if you're away from your business at this time and then in three months time you've actually got no listing flow and you're like, well, hang on, what happened? And it's like, well, that's what happened, um, but that I was identified to do that and I committed to raising the money that I did and I went over the target, which was great.
Speaker 1:I did it because I wanted to provide something back to the community and the Queensland a women's legal service. Queensland, obviously, is the place that provides all of the free service for women who are going through and it's not just women but it's a women's legal service. But they provide service for women under that circumstance and there's a lot of DV out there these days. So, yeah, it's if you can be out there and do like that sort of stuff in your business, but if you are going to take time away from your core business. Know that it's going to cost you somewhere down the line. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's interesting hearing you talk about that, because I see a lot of builders do the same thing Well, similar and tradies. So they win a bunch of work and then the work becomes a focus, and then they stop focusing on the leads, they get stuck in the work and then halfway through the work they're like holy shit, we're going to need some work when this is finished, and by that time it's too late to get the work in and you end up with a slow period.
Speaker 1:Well, that's working in your business or on your business, yeah, and I think the one thing that you talk about with builders is that if you're really great on the tools nine times out of 10, you ain't a good business owner, and we know some people historically-. It'd be the same in real estate, though, wouldn't?
Speaker 2:it. Yeah, yeah, but you'd get great salesmen that aren't good at running the business.
Speaker 1:Oh, correct, and if I not to say I've had my time over. But being a real estate principal and a selling principal, I've got my own clients to deal with. But I'm also there to mentor and get my team to a position where they're doing more and doing better. Sometimes life would be easier if I was just a listing and selling agent when you've got three kids and you've got my wife's got a gym. So there's a lot of stuff going on. But we and it's mate it's not roses all the time, but we just get up every day and we do give it our best, like you do in your business.
Speaker 1:And if you can go to bed at night knowing I gave it a red hot crack today, so what drives you? I don't know what's your why? I think my wife said do you remember why you got into real estate? And at the time I said it's not for the money. But she said you did it because you had to pay Nudgee College school fees. Right Now I've got three boys and the discount that you get for having three boys there, it wouldn't really amount to very much, right? But I had the privilege of going to N nudgy college and my dad instilled an amazing work ethic in me, and either you got it or you haven't, I don't know you, can you? I don't know, with your guys can you teach work ethic?
Speaker 2:I don't think so yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Give me give me enthusiasm and someone who's going to listen and I'll take him a hundred times over. Somebody who comes in with ego um, but my dad is still really good work ethic and I originally got into real estate because I'm like, well, if I'm any good at it, I should earn good coin, and that means that my family will be provided for and my kids can go to Nudgee College. So that's at the core of it. That's probably why I did it.
Speaker 1:But it's morphed onto something completely separate now and I know when we sell a property we get the best result that we believe from the market, but we also do it with less friction and people come out the other end going, wow, that was actually a really good experience. Which means next time they go to list or sell, we should buy rights. If it's on the peninsula, we should get that business. Yeah, Unless somebody's discounting and that sort of stuff we don't like to just like you. If somebody goes, I'm either going to go with you or them. Whoever gets the quote in at this price, you probably just walk out the door.
Speaker 2:Well, we don't. We've got ourselves into the way we market things. We work for the client. We don't get involved in tenders.
Speaker 1:So that's, and I suppose my business has been built to become an attraction agency. People call me, so I again, from a prospecting perspective, you won't see, you won't find me in the office making a hundred calls before 12 o'clock. I'll take three or four and they'll be business. Yeah, whereas other businesses are geared that they just hammer people and go oh, you want to sell, do you want to sell, do you want to sell? And on average, is that going to connect with some people and go, what are the odds? You called me today Like going to get the right answer A hundred percent, a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:But there is obviously prospecting and that sort of stuff that happens. But that's not the way that my business was. And Diane Clark is my business partner at Newport, so her and her husband bought into that operation with me. She has the same energy and passion for real estate, diane, she's a really good human. But equally, sometimes she drops her head and I see that when she gets too involved with a certain situation and she hasn't got that equilibrium. Yeah, and I say to her whatever meeting you're going into next, if you drag that with you, that is going to be how the sense of that meeting is going to go. You're not going to get that business.
Speaker 2:So who taught you?
Speaker 1:this. Who taught you all this stuff? I did, I did A couple of years ago. There were situations that were happening and I was getting emotionally involved in a transaction where I had no right to be emotionally involved. So I learned how to just take a step back and sometimes leave it for 24 hours and everyone just go sleep on it. Let's come back tomorrow, revisit and see if we can find a pathway forward. So now I just take time, because if you make a decision, rash decision, in the moment, inevitably it's probably not going to work out for the best. You've got to slow down to go forward. Eh, you do, you do, but man, there's enough going on. I mean, I've built enough momentum in my two offices. I'm not scratching around for money and that's why I can walk away from a deal if I'm not feeling it, and not every vendor.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of parents saying no. Eh, there's a lot of parents saying no and walking away from deals. That is correct. A lot of well, it's not just builders and traders, but a lot of businesses get themselves into situations because they're not knowing the numbers, they're not making money and they feel like they've got to say yes to every person that walks through the door, correct?
Speaker 1:And then you know what and that gets in your head and that's not a way to live.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's funny, people think real estate you're a salesman, but in reality every business is a salesman. You have to be able to sell 100%.
Speaker 1:Someone's got to buy, why are they going to give you money, whatever?
Speaker 2:service. Whatever job you're doing, you are a salesman.
Speaker 1:And how, your attitude, that you take into those interactions with people, the amount of youngsters and when I say youngsters, let's call them in their 20s these days, because I'm 46 now, christ the youngsters who want that and they're so bold, they want all the money but they don't want to do any work for it and they don't understand.
Speaker 2:Oh mate, we could go on for hours about this.
Speaker 1:If we could fix that, like I think there's going to be there's a lot of entitlement 100%. But from what? Because people can have everything now after pay and all this other crap. Where I don't have to, I can just pay that off later and and, and then they don't pay it off. It's like yeah, yeah. So I reckon there's going to be a vacuum of talent. I don't know the next 10 years where people like us are going to be held on to, because, like, if, if, these youngsters are going to end up being directors and owners of businesses, oh mate well, it's just everything's caught up.
Speaker 2:It Like everyone. Everything is just so fast paced now and then, like social media has obviously got a lot to do with it, but everybody wants everything now, correct.
Speaker 1:Like I'm sure, when you there's no patience.
Speaker 2:You are no different to me. Coming through the ranks Like you had to work your way up, you didn't just finish time or start a business and all of a sudden earn lots of money. And all of a sudden earn lots of money. Everyone these days wants to get some sort of qualification, finish their apprenticeship, whatever it is, and then be paid the same as the lead carpenter or the business owner or whoever.
Speaker 1:And then cracks the shits when they don't get the opportunity to earn that sort of coin.
Speaker 2:My big thing now is value and I tell people I'll pay you whatever you want if you add three times that value to my business. That's a good metric Because people don't realize if I pay you a certain amount, my business has to make three times that money to be able to afford to pay you.
Speaker 1:That it's a commercial reality. But that's having a serious discussion. Let's sit down and work the numbers out. I had a meeting today with Jonathan about his commission structure. It's about value. What value are you delivering to my business? And that's the conversation that I've had in various with various other people in my business, um, and either you deliver the value or we have to sit back down at the table and a performance management and that sort of stuff is always challenging. It's having those hard conversations and of of, I haven't been the best at that, um, but as a business owner in real estate and as selling principal, it's like how many hours are there in the day?
Speaker 2:So having a franchise like Bell something that's always interested me. Do they offer training and mentoring, or is there some sort of guidelines that gives you some idea what to do?
Speaker 1:There was a book, there was a binder, when I first opened my office.
Speaker 1:I never opened it up. So when I started the office I had three business partners Chris King, who's a very good friend of mine I've been in business with him previously and then two of the developers from Traders in Purple Now, the reason that they were part of the business and they weren't directors. They were and I'll share this stuff because it's relevant about how somebody can open up a real estate business with Bell without having ever sold a property before. They came, not at financial backing, we were equity partners, but they provided the ability of a source of leads because they were selling apartments off the plan. So they have these people coming from the peninsula. And then it was a case of well Clinton's here and he'd love to look after you. It wasn't a case of we're business partners, it was like he's an agent, have a chat with him. I'd go on a list of property, appraise it, list it, sell it, do a great job and then feed off that, because if you've got a sign board up, you should probably get two or three listings if you're contacting people in that area. If you do a good job, if you do a shit job, people are going to go oh man, that was a shit job listing with you. So that's where it's self-perpetuated.
Speaker 1:Um. So the bell brand. I love the brand and people say to me now, oh, why are you still with bell or any franchise or what do you just do your own the vertel property? I'm like, it's not about that. The egomaniacs are the ones that end up with their name on the door because they make it all about them. They do. It's not about me, it's not. It's about my staff getting better and it's about not me earning all the money. It's about helping johnny become a great agent so he can have the financial freedom that I do, and that's that's what I want for my guys. So, um, the bell brand and I don't know, maybe because I'm a go-getter, I was able to actually get it started without really any help, without reading the binder, no, without reading the binder shit.
Speaker 1:There's a lot more involved than just the binder, but I did a good job and then was able to manufacture more business off the back of that. So, um and I talked to somebody about it recently had there been somebody who would sat with me for maybe the first three months an established mentor where would I be now? And I'm happy with where we are. Yeah, but we could have had a faster start and set up better systems from scratch so would you know what you know now?
Speaker 2:well, I used to think that about my business as well. And then I think, well, I wouldn't appreciate what I've got now I wouldn't make mistakes, yeah, I wouldn't. Um, I wouldn't lean into certain things that I do now, like all those things like you have to sometimes you just have to go to the school of hard knocks to become the best person.
Speaker 1:Mate, I remember we, for the first three months I think it was eight grand a month that we'd put all this money into a kitty and we had fit out costs for the office and stuff, and I think it was for the first three months. It was eight grand a month for me just to get some traction. Yeah, three months from scratch, that's not a long time to start having cashflow coming in. I remember it was, mate. There was no money coming in. There was stuff happening in deals, but they weren't unconditional proceeding to settlement and my wife's going how are we going to pay for this? She's going, how are we going to do this? And I sort of.
Speaker 1:There were nights not that I didn't sleep, but there were nights where I was like holy shit, have I done the right thing? Because previously I was in corporate and I was a partner in the businesses that I was working in with good mates of mine, chris and Adam um, who are very successful entrepreneurs. I've sort of see myself as a little bit like that now, but I don't really see myself as that um, but, mate, it was pretty hairy there for a bit. Uh, I don't think my wife ever said you need to quit and go back and crawl back to the guys. But that might have been a conversation we had after a couple of wines.
Speaker 1:But what kept you going? What? What I built at that stage, I had a taste for it and I was like, if I can just keep building this momentum and and I don't know what, not the case that it wasn't paying bills and stuff. But, mate, I had mortgage payments and I'm like where the hell is that mortgage payment going to come from? Yeah, but I just pushed through and mandy, my wife, she supported me through all that, um, but it's.
Speaker 2:Because that's an easy. Being in that place is very easy to just go the other direction, correct?
Speaker 1:And I don't think I was built that way, but again, it's maybe because of the age that I am and the Gen X generation that I am. But these younger guys and I don't want to push you all under the bus, but you either got it or you don't. I think you can't train genuine enthusiasm If somebody thinks they're entitled and they should be earning more and they come to the office with that attitude and you can see it on their face. You have a very short span in my business because I can't have negative energy. That means no, I just walk out Like I don't have a desk at my offices and if there's anything funky going on in the office, if I can't help in that moment.
Speaker 2:I literally stand up and I'll walk out yeah, because I can't be around that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's important to know your boundaries and what you'll accept correct. But again, as a as an owner of the business, if there's stuff that needs to be addressed, it's addressed, but again, that's the back to the hard conversations and you don't ever want to have them, but the sooner that you have them the better, for suppose, yeah, I'm always intrigued to know what pushes people through those tough times, because the reality is, everyone has them.
Speaker 2:It doesn't matter at what level you are, whether you're worth $100 or $1 billion. Yes, everybody has challenging times.
Speaker 1:So when I did this move, there was a couple of people in my network who and this is 2018, mind you so before covid, um, and the market was average 90 days on market, 110 days on market was the average time it took to sell a house. So it wasn't gangbuster times, um. But there were a couple people who said, oh, mate, it ain't gonna work out, the timing's not right for you, and I'm like well, who said that's not right for me, like that's a decision for me, um. But so in that moment, when you're thinking shit, should I be doing this? That's a thing that's ringing in my ear going. The people who I know actually said it ain't going to work out for you. It's like, okay, let's just push through, keep delivering value.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you have to.
Speaker 1:You have to, but you have to genuinely be knowing that you deliver value, because the ones that don't are the ones that discount, because that's all they got so they're at the timing table and they say if I did it for 1.5, god forbid, as a commission, would you sign today? And some people like, yeah, I'll do it oh, imagine, mate.
Speaker 2:Like I said, I don't think. I think, knowing what I know now, every single line of business deals with the same shit. That's great, and I'm sure there is a shitload of real estate agents out there that have no idea what it's taking them to run and market their business. And they do. They play around with their percentages and take every job that comes through the door.
Speaker 1:If you own the office that you're in and you own the house that you're in, and you might be 50 years old, you can go and do that. But are you enthusiastic about getting the best outcome for that client? I don't think so. Are you investing in the technology and at the forefront and energetic and do like? We started doing videos, I suppose in around the covid time, because you had to show the people something if they couldn't actually physically inspect. So we started doing it. No one else was doing it, and now everyone's doing it. Yeah, but that's just. That's just the way that it is. People have to go oh shit, people are talking about their videos.
Speaker 1:And now and then we had a um, a couple of photographers that we were using for in our newport business, and one of them started doing work for another very prominent agent and then the video started to look the same.
Speaker 1:So we had to go come on, there's got to be some sort of differentiation. And then we moved away from him to another one, because you just, it's like anything, like you've got a brand and you've got quality that's associated with your brand. We, we have a Bell brand and because it's not about me, it's about the brand, which is why I haven't said see you later to Bell, because, fair's fair, the brand helped us get some credibility when we opened up an office on the peninsula and it holds value. But we've also aligned with that value of fewer, better people and it's all worked out. So, peter Hanscom, our CEO he took a punt on me to start with, irrespective of lead backing, but he took a punt, yeah, and it's worked out for the best. He could have gone pear-shaped and he would have looked like a dickhead, but he's a good bloke.
Speaker 2:Why do you think real estate agents have a bad name?
Speaker 1:Because the bad eggs are the ones that people aren't going into dinner table, Unless somebody says, oh, I'm selling my property, who should I go with in Scarborough? And they've had a good experience? They'll say but they'll go oh, this agent did this or this or this. So the bad stories are the ones that get talked about, which then? And mate, there is some bad stuff and it is the ego. There's some actually.
Speaker 1:So Josh Kindred is a very prominent agency owner on the peninsula. Josh has got some social media ads about no ick, included ICK, which I don't know if that's a reply with dick or whatever, but no ick. And he's got a photo of some dude who sort of looks like my legs right now with no socks on, as a part of this campaign, which sort of says if your agent looks like this and doesn't wear socks, maybe you shouldn't be listing with him. I haven't spoken to him about it. I don't get it myself, but I don't know. You see the flashy cars and you see all that sort of stuff, Some people. That gives us a bad name, I suppose. But, mate, you've got a Monaro sitting here. I'm into cars. I've got too many, but that's a passion of mine and real estate has provided me with the ability to have that sort of stuff, and if anybody has a problem with that, then that's their problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's 100% Like people, everyone like. If you work hard and you're passionate and you can get yourself to where you want to be, then yeah, I'd take my hat off to anybody in that position. 100%, I think that's an Aussie like. It's a bit of an Aussie thing. It's a tall poppy syndrome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're bad for it yeah it is, but why it's? The ones that are complaining all the time are the ones that they will never do the work required and the work takes like it's. I'm sort of six years in now and things started to really click. Maybe three years in and now it's clicked, and again, if I take my eye off the ball and take myself out of the business, it the trajectory goes down. But I'm comfortable.
Speaker 1:The amount of effort that I need to put in to make sure that stuff continues to go on the up. So and that means the up means that we bolt on. So in my team I've got my sister who came from a corporate career in Suncorp. She was helping us on Saturdays and we got so busy and then she's like actually I think I want to do this full time. So she came out of a 20 year career at Suncorp and she's now an agent, a junior agent, in my team because she's like, if I just keep working and doing this, I'm going to be 60 or 65 and retire and she's like, I don't know if I want to do that.
Speaker 1:So, we've given her an opportunity to become a listing and selling agent and the freedom financially I suppose that comes with that. The freedom financially comes at a cost part because I work six days a week and if I do Sunday inspections it's at a rarity because I might get divorced if I if I said that we were doing regular sunday inspections because you need to spend time with the family. Oh, that's what it's all for. But I miss my saturdays, like, well, I love saturdays, saturday's game day for me. So people go, oh, you're saturday. I'm like I love it because I get to meet this amount of people and I love the interaction. But when I first started it was tough because I had young kids. I still have young kids. But, dad, where are you going? It's like I'm going to work. You go, what do you mean? It's the weekend.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's the sacrifice that you make, but it's one of those things where you can't have both, can you?
Speaker 1:No, if you want to reach your goals, you want to be successful you want to have a your family like you have to make some sacrifices. You do, you do, and we're actually going to queenstown, the first overseas holiday we've ever booked. Yeah, we're going in in august over to queenstown. So, um, the family and the kids that are over the moon, bloody brilliant over there. Yeah, well, there was supposed to go to two bell property principles conferences in queenstown, but covid, it was during, I mean something, 2020 and 2021, and they were cancelled, obviously because of COVID, because we couldn't travel. So I was very disappointed. And then the next year we went to Vietnam. Of all places, vietnam's a great country, but the comparison of 36 degrees and 100% humidity versus Queenstown, I'd rather go to Queenstown.
Speaker 2:Queenstown's unreal. It's one of the very few places that I've been to where I've said shit, I'd have a holiday home here. It's bloody awesome, gotta get one then. Yeah, yeah, no, it's on the cards the um, but look, I'm really. Um, I appreciate you sharing your story, mate, and giving us a bit of the insides of a real estate business and and what goes on and, um, what's a few things that if people are looking to buy a property, they should be looking for in an agent.
Speaker 1:Look, I suppose trust and that's born out of maybe somebody that you know. Ask people that you know who have sold, who you sell with and if it's not me, whatever. I want people to have a good experience when they sell their property and equally, when they buy their property. The way that we deal with people regarding negotiations is correct. We hear people going oh I put an offer in and I haven't heard from the agent for a week. Like what? That's disgraceful, because sometimes they're trying to leverage that against someone else that they've been dealing with for a while, like not in good faith. So if you operate in good faith but in terms of like buying or selling property, you just need to trust that you're being dealt with in an ethical manner because there is a low barrier to entry, like how long does it take to do a building apprenticeship or carpentry apprenticeship?
Speaker 2:Well, it's supposed to be four years. Well, for a carpentry apprenticeship or any trades apprenticeship, it's four years.
Speaker 1:Four years, okay, so you can have a real estate license in about a week. Yeah right. So, you do a course online and then you go to the Office of Fair Trading and you pass your course, obviously, and they'll give you a sales certificate To sell anything you can practice real estate. Yeah, right, Right. So there's a very low barrier to entry.
Speaker 2:And that's it. Like you can do that course and you can go and sell any property. Yep, yep. And what about?
Speaker 1:ongoing training. So in the southern markets there is a thing called CPD, which is points that you get to ensure that you remain upskilled. Queensland hasn't had that. So I believe that they are putting new systems in place to ensure that agents stay because the legislation changes. And, as an investment property owner, legislation regarding rentals has been skewing in the favour of the tenants, like if you've got a property and you don't want them to have pets, you can't deny them that. Now it's like they can have a pet. So yeah, I think that sometimes the legislation skews, it goes both ways, but it seems to be more in favour of the tenants at this point, which is danger.
Speaker 1:And we've got some landlords that have said I'm out Now. We're happy to sell their properties for them, but they go off our rent roll, and that's a part of our core function is to have our operational costs covered by the money that comes in from our rent roll. But look in terms of property in general, if somebody wants to get into property I love having conversations and helping direct people If I know that somebody else has got a listing that's right for them, I'll just send them there. I don't want to. Oh, I need to get a conjunction commission. It's not about that. It's about helping people find something. But then there's a lot of opportunities on the peninsula at the moment, so, um, from stuff that's just in a knockdown state, but there's again some really, really, really good properties out there, as you've been involved with but it's worthwhile.
Speaker 2:I've always found planting the seed in there like it's worth me giving you a phone call saying, hey, mate, we're ready to do another development. This is what we're after. Keep your eyes out, yep out, yep. I feel like people shy away from those.
Speaker 1:Well, but you see, because you're a go-getter, A lot of people are like oh, Rich, who should I call? Like it's like, just if you're wondering, just go and have a look at who sold the sort of property you Look on realestatecom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you might not have something now, but just knowing that I'm possibly in the market for something, there might be something that comes up in 6, 8, 12, 2 years' time and you're like, oh shit, I'll just ring that Duane up. He was looking that time and he'll do the deal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, mate, I've been waiting. Yep, and what I find with real estate is that it has a way of finding ago. You can't push it. You can't pull it, you just need to act in good faith and it should deliver you. And we've had deals that have been like fallen apart and and people have been stressed, but it all tends to come back together and that wasn't meant to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if it falls apart, that that property wasn't, it wasn't meant to be yeah, I imagine you, um, I imagine you would get to deal with some people that are trying to live lives that they just can't afford to live.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've had some instances where finance conditions haven't been met and yeah, at the moment, if you've got sort of a three-month window with a pre-approval from the bank, because of just the shifting environment, and we've had some people who have thought that they were right, but then the bank's just gone, mate, your affordability is rooted, you can't afford it. So they sort of feel embarrassed that they go through the process of going under contract. And I'm so sorry it happened recently and the guy was genuinely he apologised to me. Mate, I can't believe it he goes. I'm embarrassed.
Speaker 1:I said well, mate, that's okay you gave it a crack.
Speaker 2:Shit happens, yeah it. I think the interest rate rise has caught a lot of people out. We were only talking about this last week when we were recording a podcast with my finance guy. Yep, we were talking about like there was this whole period, like there's this whole group of people that came into the market from around 2011, 2012.
Speaker 1:Correct with 2%.
Speaker 2:Well, they didn't see an interest rate rise for seven, eight years, correct. And so they don't know what they are. And then, all of a sudden, they start happening and they're like, oh shit, my repayments have gotten higher. Oh shit, they've gotten higher again.
Speaker 1:And like, holy shit, I'm gonna have to stop going out for dinner three nights a week. So we've got we've got a few clients at the moment that we're talking with that have bought properties either through us or or our people who, uh, have told us in november we come off fixed, we got variable and we literally can't afford those payments. So we're advising them certain things to do to be in a position where we can sell their property and they're going to make good money out of it. But they just can't physically hold the property. So we do see that If I do sell a property under those circumstances nobody's aware of it. But some of the dodgy agents will be like mate they've got to get out.
Speaker 1:They can't afford it. Yeah, like, let's just offer them this, and I reckon I can convince them, which is just again the wrong way to operate.
Speaker 2:But yeah, there's a, it's a, it's a tricky. Well, you have to know. We're just not taught this shit at school, like we're not taught about money we're not taught. Why aren't we? Well, we should be, we should be yes, that's why the world operates the way it does, mate, because most people just go their day to day head like following the sheep.
Speaker 1:So my, before I had my own business and real estate, I was pretty flippant with spending money, like I'm more like my mum than my dad. My dad was the one that we don't need a pool, we're not getting a dog, we're not going on overseas holiday, because he just worked his ass. Now he's got all this money, but his health's rooted, yeah. So that for me, makes me sad that my dad doesn't have the. He's not able-bodied enough to go travelling or doing that sort of stuff and enjoying what he's worked for Correct. So it's like, oh, you could get all the money. It's like that's not what it's about.
Speaker 1:So now we bought a boat recently and we bought it with Kurt and Diane, so my guys at Newport-on-the-Lake, so it lives there. I'm like, mate, I could die tomorrow and I've had a red-hot crack and I'd be very happy. But if I waited to have all this money and then I end up like my dad and then I can't do anything, it's I don't know. You've got to be able to have the consistency to do what you want to do and provide, but don't live it in the bank and don't be frightened that, oh, should I go and do this? Should I go buy this car?
Speaker 2:Live within your means, correct Mate. I'm the same as you. I'm only living this life once. I'm here to. One of my things that I'm really passionate about now is for me, it's all about experiences. Everything I do is for an experience. It's to give my kids experiences. Camille and I have experiences Give our clients experiences.
Speaker 1:You can't ever take them away. You can't ever take the experience away. The memory lives with you forever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I definitely don't want to get to an age where I can't physically do things or fuck. Something happens and who knows, I'm not here anymore. But if I want to do shit, I want to do it. I live like Bill Business.
Speaker 2:We did a conference earlier this year down the Gold Coast and people were asking me why are you so driven? How can you keep going every day? And I've said I'm no different to every single one of you. Some days are a fucking battle. I've got to keep pushing through. But I was telling them some of my goals and people were like, holy fuck, that is just insane.
Speaker 2:And what's one of your goals? So one of my goals, mate, is I. I want to uh whether I I wouldn't do it with just camille and the girls, because I. It's such an experience that I'd love to do it with people that have done well and and surround like just. But I want to hire a charter yacht, like so the one that I and I've got this on my. In my visions I look at it regularly. But, um, mate, I want to hire a yacht. It's, it's 1.2 million dollars for 10 days, jesus, and it, uh, it's, it takes like it takes 36 passengers and it goes all through antarctica, mate, it's got a helicopter on board, it's got submarines and basically for 10 days you will go to places in the world that most people never have the opportunity never go there, go there.
Speaker 1:So what is it? 36 divided by 1.2 million bucks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it worked out to. I think if you filled the boat up it works out to like 70, I worked it out it was like $68,000 a person or something.
Speaker 1:That's an attainable goal, as long as you can bring the rest of the people with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but this is the thing. Everyone heard me saying this and fuck $1.2 million for 10 days and then I broke it down for them. Like that's this many people?
Speaker 1:That works out to this much for a person. That's a bucket list experience.
Speaker 2:And when you work that down, so whatever it is, say it's $60,000, $70,000, Camille and I and the girls, whatever might be, $200,000, $800,000, $300,000. That is something that you'll remember for the rest of your life, Correct? And so for me, these days, it's not about like I used to always think or I used to just always tell myself I can't afford that, I can't do that, Whereas now, when I want something.
Speaker 2:It's all about how do I make that happen? What do I need to do in my life, in my business, to earn that amount of money to do that? And the other thing that I do now, which has helped me work a lot, is now that when you set goals like that, work backwards. So, like, set a target, all right, we want to do that in 10 years' time, so in 10 years' time we need to have this much money. What do we need to do for the next 10 years to have that?
Speaker 1:Did you always set goals? Because, obviously, based on your experience of almost going bust, you wouldn't have been setting goals. You would have been setting goals. You would have been the guys just going through the whole like there's no, there's no goal setting there. Yeah, mate, I wasn't well. So what changed in your mind to do? To to start setting goals and say I'm gonna do this better, like, did you have a mentor that helped get you on track? No, jesus, yeah. No, it was all well, mate. When you did, you just slip and bump your head, or something.
Speaker 2:No well, when, when you I think it was similar to you like we like, my turning point was 2012, um, and so at the time, uh, lottie would have been two years old and I think camille was pregnant with violet.
Speaker 2:Wow and um, yeah, I was just like where we like we could actually lose everything, like all everything that I've done could all be gone I gone I start work for someone else and then like I don't want my girls, like I don't I need to support my family, like I've, I've got to do shit and they um and look that yeah, we've talked about like we go through the gross ownership, taking responsibility, all those types of things.
Speaker 2:But, like I had goals, they're just the wrong ones. Like I had a goal to have the f truck and have the 30 foot boat and like all those things and so, but then I'd I'd put myself in a lot of debt to have that and then realize once I got it, like yes, it's fun, we fucking carry on with our mates and our family, but, fuck, I'm stressing my brain trying to pay for this shit. Yes, like well, that's what happens. It's um, you've just yeah, I've definitely changed my tune. Like you, you don't live outside your means.
Speaker 1:You, um, and forecasting has been massive, right, I'm sure you do yeah, forecasting and yep next year, like we did, um our the numbers in our business, um, our newport business did better than expectation and the reclive business. We'd revised our forecast and we did just over where the revised figure was, but the net figure between the two offices was over our target. And I had a sales meeting every Thursday. We had a sales meeting this morning and I was like shit, I hadn't actually looked at the numbers because I'm not to say that I was scared of looking at them, but we did it and for the rest of the team that was a me target. Everybody knows what they do as a part of the mix.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I was, yeah, I was happy with where we are. But again, my whole motto with our business, again like Bell Property, is fuel, better people and I know that for some of the other businesses that are operating on the peninsula carry a lot more staff and obviously that carries cost. Yeah, but the amount of headaches, the staff, cost yeah, the amount of headaches with staff?
Speaker 1:yeah, it is, it is, it is hard. More people, more personalities.
Speaker 2:It's not easy. Yeah, we had a moment today which I haven't had for a long time. I just, um, like the boys were getting ready for smoker when I left, so, and then my supervisor got there an hour and 15 minutes later and was on the phone to me. He's like, oh, I've just rocked up, the boys haven't smoked. I'm like what the fuck?
Speaker 1:like they sat down for smoker before I left over there and I still haven't smoked, and I still haven't smoked. I'm like fucking hell.
Speaker 2:So I put a message on our channel and had a rant and a rave and hopefully got them all back into gear. But and then I, then you, go down this path of thinking like fuck me, like that's just today, are they doing that every single day? Like, is that why that job's behind schedule? Like staff are hard work? But you can't no, yeah, you definitely can't expect everyone to just work their absolute ass off all day, every day.
Speaker 1:Well, that's what. Well, I know, in my business I'm doing shit at 10 o'clock at night setting out stuff. Yeah, because it's what I do yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, you do, it's got to be done. You do yeah, absolutely. I've got a question for you because in your game you rely heavily on well, most people would think that you rely heavily on what's going on in the economy, in the market, what people are thinking? Yes, and it's the same in my game, building industry, like most builders think, like they hear in the media the things are slowing down, interest rates are rising, they put their shell back on and the world's going to end and we're going to run out of work. Yes, how do you deal with that?
Speaker 1:So that's you talking about macro or micro? Like I look at the macros Like if somebody could seriously say to me let's look at the last 10 years. Show me where we've had a serious blip in terms of property prices. Show me, did you hit the 10 years before that? You hit 10 years before that? You're 10 years before that. Like Great Depression. What was that in the 20s? Yeah, like that's. Is that going to happen again? I think I don't know. There's so much money in the economy. There's so much money out there. I don't know.
Speaker 2:But even if it slowed down, it still comes back to your reputation and what you've built. That is correct.
Speaker 1:And people are always going to have renovating properties. People are going to be buying properties that they need to spend money on. So there's, there's always going to be, people spending money. Yeah, there's a lot of money out there, right so, and but I get, I get the people who do come in and say I'm waiting for the property prices to drop. This can't go on forever.
Speaker 1:And I say, well, I don't think like the sustainable growth, like that 40 that you saw there in that height of covid in newport and scarborough, was driven a lot by Melbourne, sydney and, to a lesser extent, canberra buyers who came up for a lifestyle change to get out, especially out of Melbourne, like they were the most locked down city in the entire world, like to have that mantle is pretty shit. Yeah, that was terrible. So we had the amount of people that we had coming up from Melbourne who would come up, sell a property down there for $3 million. They'd come up and they'd buy something for one, two, one, three and make a decision like that, like if you're moving from klontarf and you've done well and you sell for 700 grand and then you come to scarborough or newport to buy something 1.3, like nah, mate, you know what, who you're gonna be paying that number.
Speaker 1:I'm like, well, we're actually under contract. Yeah, there's somebody from melbourne. They go oh, those bastards. And that was was the mentality, because the lens of value is different for those guys, which is what has driven a lot of that growth. And obviously, when you look at those graphs and how it drops, it's because the Reserve Bank did what they were supposed to do but they acted late, which is why we had all those interest rate rises at that period and it's had that effect. Where we didn't see price drop, we saw the percentages of growth slow, but we've still been tracking like in 12% in the last 12 months in Scarborough. I mean 12% growth that's a cracking number.
Speaker 1:And it's not going to go down from there. I can't see so those macro effects in terms of real estate. It's the long game. If somebody wants to buy something today and spend a couple hundred grand on a Renault and then expect to make a mozza off it, that's risky and unless you nail it and you're doing the reno, how much can you get for 200 grand these days?
Speaker 2:well, it depends what you want.
Speaker 1:Like I said, it's all about expectations but I don't think, I don't think you could make a mozza by just spending 200 grand. You need to spend more than that to actually get that. So that's where that risk is, and if anybody says to me that that's what their plan is, I'm going. I can't see that. If you're talking about maybe a five or six year plan, I can see that that's less risk. And a 10 year plan, you literally you can't go wrong.
Speaker 2:But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what industry and what business you have. If you run your own race. You're confident in what you do. You run a good business, you look after people. You do the right thing. Sounds easy sounds easy like it it is, isn't it? It actually is easy. It is easy.
Speaker 1:People talk themselves out of it because of all their old school shit stories that they've been brought up with, that the world's gonna end and interest rates gonna slow everything down and um but they, they're the um oh, I don't know what I'm trying to say, but they're the people they're never gonna own a business. If they're always making excuses about why not yeah, they're not the guy getters like you guys, like then they're always going to be the people that are going to be an employee and then whinging about why they don't have the stuff. Yeah, and the stuff, material things are great, but that's not what it's about. I mean, experience is that's why we're going to queenstown. We want to spend time with our kids and away from real estate, because, mate, I'm responding to inquiries at 10 o'clock at night, at 5 o'clock in the morning, like it's that and we get it.
Speaker 2:I hope you're setting them to go in business hours.
Speaker 1:No no, no, mate, come on. This is not text messages, this is emails?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but emails too, mate. You've got to schedule them to go in business hours.
Speaker 1:I don't know how to do that on my phone, but the amount of responses that we get people go. Thank you for the timely response Because if you did a test on any property could be anywhere in Australia on an inquiry. I reckon 50% of the agents don't even respond.
Speaker 2:Yeah, camille and I are trying to buy another investment at the moment in our super fund and we're looking at rural areas because they're long-term, yep, we just want them for passive income, yep. But, mate, I've sent so many inquiries.
Speaker 1:No response income.
Speaker 2:But, um, mate, I've sent so many inquiries, no response. Mate, there's this one, it's an absolute cracker and, um, you have to drive out there, yeah. But mate, it's like, honestly, this guy took over two weeks to come back to me. I had to follow him up three times and, uh, when he finally got back to me, he's like, oh, mate, look, it's um, there's no one interested. Like, just when you're ready, come out and have a look at it. And I'm like, mate, you're not doing a real good job at selling it there. But, yeah, you definitely got to respond during business hours, mate, look again. Appreciate you coming on today. Have you got anything else you want to tell the listeners before we get out of?
Speaker 1:here. No, look, I just think that a lot of these stories. If you want to make a change, it's great to listen to this stuff. But your Live, life Build, that's a business right. And you're doing the mentoring and you're like Well, it's not just me anymore, mate.
Speaker 2:We've got seven mentors in that business now. We cover leadership, mindset, mental health and well-being, breathwork and exercise, systems and processes, finances and data and all your contracts so what does it cost for someone?
Speaker 1:if I was a builder and I wanted to actually do that, what does it cost? Are you able to share that?
Speaker 2:oh, mate, look it's, it's super affordable, like our um, our elevate program. And then look at changes all the time. At the moment actually, it'll be changed by the time this podcast comes out but, um, at the moment it's 14, 50 a month plus gst yep, super affordable. There's options on top of that for the reason we keep it so affordable. So we're like half the price of most of our competition because we are on a mission we want more builders to get access to quality stuff, so you make it affordable.
Speaker 2:But what we do on top of that? If they want more personalized and one-on-one information, they can add on and they can do one-on-one calls at an additional cost.
Speaker 1:You've got to be paid for your time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but, mate, I love it. I absolutely love helping people getting the messages like the one from Lewis.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:Lewis isn't even in our community yet. He's just changed his life. From information on this podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I mean, that's my point is that you've got another client, I suppose, with him and you can help you change people's trajectory of their lives. You have the power of doing that if they commit.
Speaker 2:Mate, it's insane. The biggest thing, again, you and I can go on for hours, but I find the biggest thing that a lot of people let themselves down on, the two things that can absolutely change your life, is commitment and consistency. Correct, Some people, and I've done it as well, but, like so many people, are looking for the secret recipe.
Speaker 2:There is none or the secret sauce, and the reality is there is none. Like you have to commit, you've got to put in the time, you've got to put in the effort and, number one, you've got to be consistent. Yeah, and I think the other thing that really and it ties in with some of the stuff we've talked about today, like especially back to the younger people that want everything now and want to earn big dollars straight away and you touched on it before, like what was one of my turning points and stuff, something that I was never good at and I didn't understand but has made a huge difference to my life in the last 10 years is it actually doesn't matter what you earn. Like wealth is made on how you spend money. Yes, not what you earn. Yeah, and if people realize that, like so people I know people that have earned a hundred thousand dollars their entire life, for 30, 40 years, and they're worth millions yep, because they've spent it correctly, they've invested it and created passive income out of it, yeah.
Speaker 2:But so many people get the paycheck, spend the paycheck, yep, and then wonder yeah, well, there's none left what's going on? Where's the next one coming from? Like, whereas, if they took a bit of their paycheck, invested it in themselves. Yes, personal growth, personal development, personal growth coaches mentors equally.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of charlatans.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of people out there that all they want is the coin and don't actually deliver any value oh, mate, I had a call today from a builder that has been working with his coach and is just so disappointed that he didn't come with us first. Because this other guy is just really. He sold him on the marketing, it was just all marketing.
Speaker 1:It's the same as agents selling on themselves in that living room and then don't back it up with any tangible differences.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's insane mate. I love it. I love what I do now. This podcast is incredible. That's why it's become Australia's number one construction podcast.
Speaker 1:We're helping people. Congratulations.
Speaker 2:Cheers, mate, well done. Actually, I had an awesome one today. A guy told me today or yesterday that I saved his marriage. Oh shit, we've had other ones. We've saved lives and all this stuff we've. The best one ever is from a wife saying that she's got a husband back. Wow, but to have a guy? Yes. I just um through an instagram message, um, I send everyone my number. Like people message me on instagram, I say, mate, if you want to chat, here's my number. Yep, this guy's called me out within five minutes. He's like mate, look, I just want to let you know that if, um, if I hadn't joined your program, I'd be separated. Now your program's got my life back. I'm spending time with my family, my wife's happy, we've got a good family and for me, that's the driver. It's not all about one thing. That shits me is all these people you see on social media. It's all about the Lamborghinis and the flash houses. Don't get me wrong. I want all of our members to have great businesses and make good money. That's not what it is.
Speaker 1:It's not about that. You've got to wonder what happens outside of that Instagram post People don't get all the other stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, but mate, look, thanks for coming on sharing your story. Thank you, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm glad we finally did. It look as usual. If you like this podcast, please like, subscribe, share, comment, all those things, because we want to continue to make this Australia's number one construction podcast. Let us know what type of guests you want on what you want us to talk about, because this is all about helping you. Look forward to seeing you on the next one. Are you ready to build smarter, live better and enjoy life, then head over to livelikebuildcom.
Speaker 1:forward slash elevate to get started.
Speaker 2:Everything discussed during the Level Up podcast with me, dwayne Pearce, is based solely on my own personal experiences and those experiences of my guests. The information, opinions and recommendations presented in this podcast are for general information only, and any reliance on the information provided in this podcast is done at your own risk. We recommend that you obtain your own professional advice in respect to the topics discussed during this podcast.