The "Level Up" with Duayne Pearce Podcast
I take on the role of an authoritative voice that fearlessly communicates truths drawn directly from my lived experiences. With a genuine sense of ownership, my insights are free from any hidden agendas – they truly belong to the audience. My stories and journey add remarkable value, the key now lies in harnessing its power effectively to help others.
My purpose is to create a new residential building industry. My mission is to inspire unshakable self-confidence in my colleagues in the industry, empowering them to orchestrate prosperous, enduring, and lucrative businesses that bring exceptional projects to fruition for our clients.
My goal is to foster a deeper comprehension among clients about the identity and functions of builders, redefining their perceptions.
The "Level Up" with Duayne Pearce Podcast
Don't Take it Personally, it's Just Business.
#116 - Working with your partner is no small feat, especially in the demanding world of construction. In this episode Duayne's wife Camille joins the conversation with Mike and Justine from Aberhart Roofing. This episode sheds light on the essential yet often unseen contributions of partners, particularly wives, who keep the wheels turning behind the scenes. We discuss practical strategies for maintaining passion and avoiding resentment as well as tips and tricks to keep the business running like a well oiled machine.
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Live Life Build
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QuoteEaze
quoteeaze.com/Free-Offer.html
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So how do you deal with builders that?
Speaker 2:don't pay bills. I've seen builders on site and I've pulled up at the job site and I've bailed them up on the scaffold in front of all their boys, where the f*** is the money. Why haven't you paid the f***ing bill?
Speaker 1:G'day guys. Welcome back to another episode of Level Up. We are back in the shed for another cracking episode this afternoon. Before we get into today's episode, make sure you go and check out our new website, duanepeircecom, and purchase the Level Up merchandise. We want to see every builder and tradie in Australia wearing our merchandise, or anyone else. If you want to get on board with it, go and check it out. But today we have the husband and wife duo of Abba Hart Roofing. This one's going to be an absolute cracker because, uh, mike, I know we see him on site. He's the one on site kicking out and doing all the work. And then his wife, justine. I've only ever spoken on the phone until today, but she always manages to crack me up and, uh, we have a lot of cool conversations. So, um, big welcome to you guys. How are you? Yeah, good good. Thanks for coming on board. We've actually got my wife, camille with us.
Speaker 3:I was going to say I'm here as well.
Speaker 1:We've actually got my wife, camille, with us today as well, because today's episode is going to be quite a bit around husband and wife's working together in the building industry, and this podcast could go absolutely anywhere, given my past conversation with Justine on the phone, so I'm not even sure where to start. But, like how you guys find the industry at the moment.
Speaker 2:Well, everyone's saying it's getting quiet, but we don't see it. I guess. I suppose we're lucky in the renovation sort of market.
Speaker 1:You know everyone's yeah, I'm not sure what people are talking about, like it's yeah, but you talk to suppliers, reps.
Speaker 2:you know such and such a squad or such and such a closing up shop, but today we're pretty much booked out to Christmas.
Speaker 4:We're just shut short.
Speaker 2:And booking into the new year? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, let's jump into like why I think that happens, because we were having some conversation before we jumped on today. So we know we've got a lot of good topics to talk about. But that comes back to you have a good duo, you have a very good administration side. You have a good site team. Camille and I were just saying before we started recording today one of our selection criteria, I guess, for trades is how well their administration is and how much they, how quickly they respond to us yeah and you guys do that really really well and if Justine called, like Justine calls and we go through stuff.
Speaker 3:If there's any questions, like it's prompt, it's not wait two weeks and then ask me a question yeah, it's probably half an hour it's a good introduction to the project.
Speaker 4:My logic is so I get plans in and if I get an email, I'll save them and then I'll go into the details and I'll write it all down what everything is for the job, and then, if I have any, I'll put the plans into my software and then, if I see anything that's not, then I'm like, oh, I should ask a question, literally probably within a day. Yeah, because I know that every question you guys then have to go to an architect. Yeah, exactly, and ask those, and architects can take as long as they take. Yeah, nicely.
Speaker 3:That's true, yeah.
Speaker 1:But how did you guys get to that, like you were just saying, like how you got into the industry?
Speaker 2:Well, what I yeah, I worked for a guy for a long time, that sort of just, I guess, run its course, didn't happen, you know, didn't sort of happen how it was meant to, how he said it was working for him and then went out on my own subbing and then, you know, had a couple of guys and we'd just go just subbing to other roofing companies, got my QBCC license and then obviously went on the journey of running your own supply and fit company. At the start I used to do all the quoting. Justina do payroll, but I'll do all the quoting, I'll just do everything. How'd you learn to do that? I just worked it out.
Speaker 2:I should have asked a lot more questions at the start. Like there was like stuff that I mean there's still stuff today, like I'm still working out. And that's probably one of my downfalls is I don't reach out to people and go, hey, fucking, what do you do here? Or how would you do this? I just worked it out. And then justine was a nanny for a long time and what that? Just 20 years.
Speaker 4:I think I was with the same family in camp hill for 12 years holy Holy doy Yep, from the time the kids were babies, like eight weeks old, and there were three kids over that 12 years. And then it got to the point where Mike got too busy yeah, and it was just, he was I think got to a point where he was quite literally too busy and a little bit of not keeping up.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and everyone gets to that point. I think they get to their peak and they're like whoa, I've got to kind of do something to make a change, because this isn't working. He was up till 3 am quoting and then going to work at six. Yeah, and I'm like you can't sustain it like this is not, it's not a house.
Speaker 2:Like, yeah, people that do it like it's not healthy especially, yeah, danger money, you know how did you guys?
Speaker 1:I think it's good to talk about this because I personally believe that the construction industry would fall over if it wasn't for the wives and partners that sit behind the scenes, and a lot of, or most of them are doing it for free. Yes, and when Camille? It wasn't really planned. When Camille came into our business either, I had an admin lady that gave notice that she was leaving and I'm like, fuck, what are we going to do? And camille was finishing up maternity leave with her second, still on maternity leave, and it's like, do I?
Speaker 3:go back, or do I think so? I'm assuming you're in the same kind of position. Um, what were you like?
Speaker 4:no, I was nannying, I was off a roof, I need to stop. I was full-time nannying and then I kind of said to him I've kind of got, I've got to step in because you can't do it all. You're getting behind and you've got builders ringing you it was letting people down. It was bad.
Speaker 2:That's the tall and short of it.
Speaker 4:And, like a lot of men, when he got stressed, he just did not.
Speaker 2:I thought I could just work my way. I just thought, as long as I go to work every day and just keep, just as long as I'm at work and I'm doing something, it's going to be all right. Long as I'm at work and I'm doing something, it's going to be all right. We'll just get through it.
Speaker 4:But no, no not, and then he got behind and so I was full-time nannying and then doing all the quoting and stuff amongst that, and then I think it was probably I think I left my job July 22 because we finally got to it.
Speaker 4:Oh, you've only been into two years before that, so yeah so I was working and quoting and the roofing queen of brisbane and just like two years, everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so so no, and it was, it was just. And I think the bonus of the whole husband wife thing is you have the same goal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're aiming for the same thing well, that you guys do, and I think we do now. We do now.
Speaker 3:We do now. At the start I didn't. I just thought I was a punching bag, but you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:But you guys like, how did you guys work through it? Because I've talked about it a lot Like when Camille came into our business, back then I was running a shit show.
Speaker 3:Because this? Well, what's this?
Speaker 1:It wasn't a complete shit show made well, the building sort of thing was all right, but we weren't running a good business like the first. When camille made the decision that she was going to come in, we thought like we're going to be ahead of everyone else. Free labor, and it's the worst thing did you get paid?
Speaker 3:justin, did you get paid?
Speaker 4:I only started getting paid when you left when I left my job. Yeah, yeah, so it was literally when I gave up my job full, so that that how many years prior, not because I was getting an income from nannying, but then July 22,. That was when we got to the point where we felt like the business could support the family. Yeah, because that's literally what it is. Yeah, that's so good it is, you know, supporting.
Speaker 1:Because it's hard, isn't it Like people, like most partners, are not getting paid in the business and, knowing what we are now like, it's obviously terrible for your mental health. Oh, totally.
Speaker 4:And you? You just feel like you're not worth. Why am I not being paid? I'm doing a full-time job. If I went somewhere else, they'd be paying me, yeah yeah yeah yeah, I think yeah, for mental health.
Speaker 4:You have to do it, because being a mum is also one of those jobs where you're not paid and you don't expect to be paid, but you don't get a lot of recognition but yeah, and then, of course, with a business and your husband's the person that everyone sees you in the background, yeah, and if you weren't getting paid, you'd be like, yeah, you know, I'm doing these two jobs, yeah I do.
Speaker 1:I feel sorry for you guys because I like, obviously I put myself out there a lot doing this podcast and socials and things. But I'm very open and tell people all the time like Camille's, the one running this show now Like the wheels would fall off if she didn't do what she did, and I'm sure your business is the same.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm always like I'll get phone calls from people about scheduling and I'm just straight away you gonna have to ring justine, like don't, do not talk to me about that. Like I know where to be and I know when we've got to be there and I know we've got to have stuff there. But if you ring me going right, we're going to be ready this day. You know it might be two months time, it's gone. It's gone. Like yeah, like send the email, send it to justine. She'll put it in the calendar and when, when it gets close, we'll be like you're right, we've got this coming up. That might overlap, we'll have to. You know, do a bit of juggling, but generally you run a tight ship. I guess she does. She does Keeps us all honest.
Speaker 3:She does very well.
Speaker 4:I can't believe you've been only doing it for two years and I walked in like, literally, quite honestly, I had to print out a photo of the components of a roof.
Speaker 3:When I started I was going to say I didn't even know.
Speaker 4:I didn't even know what a ridge cap was.
Speaker 3:Yeah or fascia. I remember someone saying get this something with fascia. I'm like fascia.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's right. Like I had a photo and I looked at it. I was like rightio.
Speaker 2:And then I said this and he's like, and he was doing it with a ruler and a piece of paper, so I just do all my meterage and stuff I just printed out.
Speaker 4:I just knew it worked and and I came in and I was like that's not happening and I got you know the software and paid the hundred and something dollars a month because it is really quick, like with that if you're not doing a full deed like a massive job, yeah. But yeah, I literally knew nothing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and he wasn't very helpful. Oh look.
Speaker 4:He was like oh look, you'll just, and I'm like what if I make a massive mistake? There's been a, you know, there's been a couple of doozies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's been a couple, but it's just all gross.
Speaker 1:It's a learning curve. Yeah, I call it uni fees. Now, like so many traders and builders whinge about these big losses they've had, but like you think about uni students and that that go to college for years, have I don't know, 140, $200 hex debts and things Like our fuck-ups are our uni fees?
Speaker 4:Yeah, a couple of double orders and you know, yeah, it's been you know, wrong colour, wrong profile. Few and far between, though now We've kind of got been, you know, wrong colour, wrong profile, few and far between, though now We've kind of got it, you know.
Speaker 2:But I mean everyone does it. It's a part of getting the job done.
Speaker 1:I guess and it's a big part of us being aware of that, isn't it? Like I'm really big on telling our team on site now, especially the younger guys like I don't care if you fuck up, like fuck ups are how you're going to learn. Just don't make them over and over.
Speaker 2:and over again. That's right. You gotta own. If you own your fuck up and be like all right, I fucked up, why did I do it? This is why you did it right. I try you know, don't do it next time or you'll know. You'll know, if you do that next time, this is going to be the result.
Speaker 1:So yeah, like first time, okay, it is what it is. Second time what's going on here? Third time, it's coming out of your pocket that's right yeah yeah, like you've got to give people opportunity to learn. Hey, like if you're. I think a lot of people are scared to learn because they're worried about getting their ass kicked or not not even having a go because they're worried about the outcome yeah, and I think, like he said, um, a lot of it is not wanting to ask questions and it's the only like when you've got kids.
Speaker 4:I think two-year-olds ask on average 265 questions a day and you had two of them. And that's how they learn, like it's literally how they learn. So if you don't ask questions, you're not going to learn.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, you don't ask if they don't know.
Speaker 4:That's awesome.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's what I've said to Don't. I was lucky. We had trades that were nice almost them because I would ring and be like I'm really sorry, but what is this? Yeah, and they'd take the time to answer it. So I've just realised maybe we need to start a tradie wife course on how to do takeoffs. That could be our next thing.
Speaker 4:just yes, because I had no idea but yeah, we just get thrown in the deep end. That's right, and that's the same. It's a communication as well. It's. Another thing is between us, I think, because we know each other so well, that, oh, we know what you're thinking.
Speaker 2:So this is yeah, yeah, well, I mean I can remember one of my one of my favorite comments were to study the plans, you need to study the plans. Comments were just study the plans, you need to study the plans, you need to study the plans. Just look at the plans, look at your elevations, look at the elevations, look at your schedule. What's she looking at, though?
Speaker 4:That's right.
Speaker 2:But here I am going, I'm on site and then she's ringing me and nearly crying.
Speaker 4:I don't know what to do.
Speaker 2:I'm it. And the next thing you know you're having an argument and then you get home and you fucking hate each other.
Speaker 4:And you haven't even seen each other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the only reason I made that comment is I used to do the same thing to Camille, Like she'd be ringing me to sort shit out and I'd be going go to page 3-00. Like, look at it.
Speaker 3:I didn't even know what 3-00 was.
Speaker 4:I'm reading gibberish right now.
Speaker 3:What stupid methods of naming numbering plans 3-00. It's all this and then if you look at that, that cuts that to that plan. I'm like I'm out, I'm out, yeah. I don't want to know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but they're like, yeah, our industry would fall over if it wasn't for wives and partners helping out behind the scenes. So I think there's a lot of recognition that needs to.
Speaker 3:Talked about there.
Speaker 1:But look, I know there's a lot of like I tell traders and builders now, like you cannot do it on your own. Like, figure out whatever. Like increase your prices, figure out your overheads, do whatever you need to do, but you need to get someone to help you, like, whether it is your partner, and if it is, they need to get paid or get a VA or get admin or get something. But you can't go to work, slog your guts out all day on the tools and then try to quote do contracts, payroll, like all that shit of a night time, like it's a recipe for disaster.
Speaker 4:I get so many emails from 3am onwards. I know from our builders, from many of our small builders that we work for, and I say to them how do you function?
Speaker 3:yeah, it's how do you get up at 3am? It's really common, it's really common.
Speaker 2:I talk to a lot of people now that I say, yeah them, how do you function? Yeah, it's so important, how do you get up at 3am? It's really common. It's really common. I talk to a lot of people and they'll say, yeah, I'm in the office from 4. Yeah, and then you know, 6 o'clock I'm in the car off to site.
Speaker 1:Four to five. There's like Threes. I've had quite a few threes lately.
Speaker 3:And these guys on the phone they're like where do we find it, justine, that's the thing.
Speaker 3:They don't need to have a full-time person. It could be a day a week or two days a week, and it could be two days, two half days a week that they can then make sure that they're in the office from 12 till 4 with no interruptions, to get that done. Like I spoke to a builder yesterday and I said he goes oh, how long do you reckon it'll take to do this type of house for a quote? And I'm like, look, it's very hard for me to judge, depending on how you do it. But I said if you turn off your phone, turn off your emails, turn off everything and just get it done, then you'll get it done. It's not going to take you two weeks, because that's the thing, if we're in the office and we've scheduled out time for quoting guaranteed there, guaranteed there's a million phone calls and we try and do it. But you need to focus that time to do it. And if they can just do a couple of hours, Uninterrupted.
Speaker 4:That's the major problem.
Speaker 1:Like with our software business, like Camille does all the training with that and I resonate with them because I used to do it. But like some of the stuff that builders and tradies are trying to do on their own is just insane, like it's going to burn them out, like. And then I don't know if you got to a point, mike, but like you, you just lose your passion, like you start.
Speaker 2:Oh, he was burnt out, he was gone. There was, yeah, yeah, there was that. And then I got screwed by a builder and then that was that was like a five-year battle, and like in the middle of that, I questioned I was like why the am I doing this? Yeah, but when I first started, I was like how good's this? This is awesome. Like, yeah, I'm doing it.
Speaker 2:And then, like halfway through that, I was going there's got to be a bit like the why am I doing this? Like this is how to you know, how do people do this? And and it's like this is fucking bullshit. How do people fucking do this shit? It's the business, though, isn't it? It's just. I think it's one thing I've had to teach myself is like business is business, it's not personal. Like when that person goes home, at the end of the day, they don't give a fuck what you're doing. They couldn't give a shit, you know, or a customer. It's like once that job's done, they don't give a shit, unless there's a fucking leak. They don't care what you're doing. Like you know, like they're done with you. That's it. Yeah, move on. Yeah, I just, yeah, questioned, yeah, I questioned why I was doing it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I was like you've just got to tell yourself right, this is not personal, it is business um switch off, I guess like yeah like it's hard sometimes to switch off, but I've had to sort of tell myself, right, it'll be there tomorrow, it's going to be there the next day, it'll be there the day after that.
Speaker 1:To just yeah, I suppose don't be so hard on yourself sometimes do you find having like working with justine, like just being able to pick up the phone every now and then and say like whether it's a good thing or a bad thing, like just being able to have that chat?
Speaker 2:Oh, we'll talk. Sometimes I'll talk two or three times a day just about fucking. I don't know whatever's going on or what's something on the side, or you know like, yeah, it helps, it helps. It's like I guess you just vent, yeah, Like, oh, fucking, this happened and he didn't fucking show up for work today. And for fuck's sake, Like you know, it's always it's raining.
Speaker 4:Yeah it's always a day when you see, don't even say the word Dwayne, You're not allowed to say that word.
Speaker 1:But it's. I can't imagine what you guys are like. It can be the lightest rain and I wake up in the night, and especially if we've got concrete or something coming up.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, I cannot go back to sleep. That is the one thing that still stresses me out. If there's heavy rain like a huge downpour, I just sit and I just wait, you wait for the phone to ring. It's not often, admittedly, pretty lucky with the board, like my guys on site. They know They've got the same care I've got, like they actually care about the job. It's not like, right, I've just got to get through today and go home and then I'll come do it tomorrow. Like actually they give a shit, they care about what happens and so they take the care to. You know, try and forecast, right, if I do that it's going to leak. So we'll do it like this. Yeah, so I haven't. I suppose we haven't had.
Speaker 2:I haven't had a major leak, like I haven't had a major leak where someone's just dropped the phone, lost a ceiling or something.
Speaker 4:But work like as builders most of the time we've still got something to fall back on Inside or something yeah, but if it rains, you're out. Oh, gutters.
Speaker 2:Nah, we're lucky because we do a little bit of cladding so we might have like a cladding job going and it'll be like the back end of that so they can go do some cat window flashings or downpipes. So it's should. I don't think they've had. They wouldn't have had a rain day for a while.
Speaker 3:Not for a while. Well, that's Josie, we've got smart. Yeah, I was going to say you're scheduling, you're moving things around.
Speaker 2:I always say to the boys look, you don't have to go to work in it. It's up to you. If you want to go, get the hours in, all good, but don't feel like I'm like you have to go to work. It's raining, I don't give a shit. I mean, I grew up in New Zealand. Roofing in New Zealand it's like just another day of trudging through the mud, just don't fall off.
Speaker 1:So what is it Like? You wouldn't be able to lay anicon and lay roof sheets in rain, would you?
Speaker 2:Oh, like, if you've got a day of, say, it might rain at 11 o'clock, you're not going to call your day off, you go, all right, well, we'll just do what we can. It rains, get off the roof, wait it out and then jump back up and, yeah, just get back into it. Um, I know there's a lot of guys that are like what is the old?
Speaker 3:two drops on the tally yeah, yeah, like, yeah, you know tires screeching.
Speaker 4:Yeah, see you later back tomorrow but, yeah, I think we've learned that, like every time it rains, you get more and more behind. Yeah, so we've tried to get it, so we've got things in the background that we can revert to, ie cladding down pipes.
Speaker 2:So you're not screeching holes, there's rain.
Speaker 3:You know I'll start worrying about you. Every time it rains and I always think oh, poor Justine, God, two days of rain.
Speaker 4:We've had so much rain in the last couple of years that it's just you have to kind of come up with a new master plan well, that's the thing you have to just switch gears and figure it out.
Speaker 1:Hey, yeah, I know you can't just stop yeah, you've got to come up with something when it's raining for four weeks straight.
Speaker 4:You can't just go.
Speaker 1:You know, pull pin yeah, it's like it's not just um I think you guys probably take this, the series as we do like it's not just us that gets affected. Like we know, our team's got bills to pay and needs to show up so they can get paid and all those types of things. So it is like running a business in the construction industry is pretty stressful when you take all that into consideration. And then, like you say, one day of rain and it'd be worse for you guys, because if you get one day of rain, I don't know, you guys probably work for 20 or 30 builders, I assume. So all those builders get affected by rain. That's right.
Speaker 4:It pushes everyone back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one day ends up being a week of like just.
Speaker 3:Shuffling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, delays.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so how do you keep everyone happy with that?
Speaker 4:You just no, I won't say you don't Try your best. Then you've got the builders. So then you've got the builders who forget that it's rained and they think we're still in our spot and I'm like have you forgotten? It rained four days ago, like you should know. If it rains, it's not just you getting pushed, it's everyone after that day of rain, like it's. You know, it's just got to happen. Because you can't prioritize, you just have to say right, this is it. Everyone move a day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah how do you go with employees?
Speaker 2:like that's the one thing that that fucking kills me. That's. That's probably the one thing that takes up the most time in my brain during the day. Yeah, like I'll fucking look at your phone in the morning. You're like, oh yeah, you got a text from so and so I'm not coming in, fucking all right. So then you got a text from so-and-so I'm not coming in, fucking all right. So then you've sent one of them off here to do a one-man job and you've sent three of them off to do a three-man job. Now there's only two. Then you've got, well, you know, a three-man job, but two-and-a-half blokes show up, but then it's only one a half blokes when old mates call in sick. So it's a juggling act.
Speaker 2:The problem with roofing it's like a whore trade. People just move around, they do not. Not really, there's not like I mean, like I said, I'm super lucky with the guys. I've got One of the guys that works for me. I've either worked with him or he's worked for me for the last 12 years, so I know what to expect. He knows what to expect. And then one of them's family Quite literally. Then I've got a. Well, he's not the apprentice anymore, he's the tradesman and he's good. If they say they're going to do something, they do it. They're the kind of guys that will. They'll do the extra hour in the afternoon To get that job done so they don't have to go back the next morning. And without those guys I'd be fucked. You couldn't, you just wouldn't replace them, like, like you couldn't find anyone to replace them how's?
Speaker 1:um, look, because a lot of time the employees don't understand that. Do they like if one of them and look people get sick, I get that, but like they don't understand that it you have to reschedule things, like if you've got your day planned and there's a certain amount of guys that you've allowed to do a certain job and then you've allowed a certain amount of money to get that job done, all those types of things like it throws a whole spanner in the works and then all of a sudden you've got to reschedule things and reorganize things.
Speaker 4:Like that's what they don't get is the scheduling side of things. They don't understand that we've told a builder that we're going to be there tomorrow, yeah, with three guys to lay a roof, and then, if only two turn up, that's us behind schedule from the get-go yeah because we're only getting two-thirds of the work done, but yeah.
Speaker 2:So one thing I'll try and not do I used to do when I was a subbie, and when I was I wasn't. I was just angry on site, just like, fucking, hurry go, fuck, we're gonna get this fucking done. You're like, because you're like subbie, you got to get to the next job. You're just just trying to turn them over. One thing I've just told myself you just do not say like this has to be fucking done today, like you never put a time stress on them, because that is like that's the worst I've found is if you say, fuck, this has got to be fucking done today because we've got to get to this fucking next job and we've got to get to the next one after that, that's like that will start affecting them and they'll be fucking just start dragging the chain and it just like the whole atmosphere just yeah, change. Because I've showed up to site like fuck, we've got this done. Who the fuck was it not done? And they're like, oh, fucking, yeah, fuck, why is he being a cock?
Speaker 4:why have you been here? Why aren't you fucking?
Speaker 2:helping.
Speaker 1:So one thing I'll like I always I just I try and give them more than enough time and that's worked like wonders, do you ever put it on them and like say, hey boys, how long do you reckon this is going to take us today, or whatever, like give them a bit of input into.
Speaker 2:I'll always have a chat with them in the arbo. I'll say how'd you get on, um, where are you at like? Just so I know for like. So if you're, if you're ahead, then I know all right well, so they might get to that job early. So I've got to make sure everything's sorted for that. I'll always have a conversation with them, try, and you know they can pretty much tell me where they're at. Yeah, um and and. Then you know you sort of just go from there. But every day is different. Like you might have. You know you might have two weeks of just everything's just going super smooth oh, how good's this and then fucking, just a week.
Speaker 4:The wheels fall off.
Speaker 2:Just like, oh, fucking white me, like, what have I done to deserve this? But I imagine that's everyone. Yeah, but I imagine that's everyone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I think that's just part of it, because everyone that used to eat me up and I'd be ringing Camille on the same thing like what the fuck? Why are we doing this? Let's pack up, let's fucking hit the road. But there's so many moving parts, like it's not just us. One thing I've definitely learned like you don't know if they've had a fight with their partner that morning, or their kids have been sick that night, or there's so much shit going on in people's lives these days and everyone's flat out and they're eating shit food. Like you don't know what they're dealing with. Yeah, so when you crack the shits and start to put more pressure on them, yeah, it's more pressure in general on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sometimes it just yep, fuck, the wheels are off, like, and then your whole day shit like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You start off shitting it and shitting it A week's shit, and then it's yeah, it just keeps going.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, it does, and I think with the time restraints, like how he doesn't give them time, it's like he doesn't put a number on it days-wise. That also helps with quality, because you're not in a hurry and that's kind of how we base. That's not in a hurry, yeah, that's kind of how we base. That's what he lives by, is doing a good job. Yeah, like he he kind of has said to me in the past you know, if I know it's not right, I know it's not right if there's something he said, just because not everyone sees the roof, that doesn't mean it's not there yeah he said so I will go back and do it or get them to redo it or tweak it, so I know it's done properly oh it's.
Speaker 2:That's cost me a lot of money over the years, but, like I just go, sometimes it's better to just go. All right, that needs to be fixed. Let's just get what we need and then you just put it behind you rather than going fuck. It's gonna cost me this fucking x amount of fucking dollars to get it fixed, because, fucking, why don't? Sometimes it's easy, you just go fuck, it's fucked.
Speaker 1:All right, let's just fucking fix it, move on well I've known about other builders, but like that's why I would keep people like it, because like it might have cost you money at the time to make the repair. But like I as a builder, I would see that and I go for fuck. He's just doing all my work because I just know he takes pride in what he's doing. So yeah, even though you've lost a bit of money to do that, you're going to get all the other new work that's right, yeah, yeah, you've got a.
Speaker 2:I think it's like, yeah, you've got to look two years down the track, yeah well I do think there's a lot of trades out there that go the other way, but you're like oh, that's that, can stay like that, oh you see it all the time, like like we need to work for like a lot of different builders and like like me and the boys will sit there and we'll have a chat about oh fucking, how was a carpenter and that was fucking terrible. And then, oh, oh, fuck, yeah, like you know, they do a good job, or, um, one of my guys is like big on like a clean site. Yeah, like if if he shows up to a like a job and it's like just a clean site, he's happy to be there, like he. He's like sweet yeah, how good, clean site, fucking not tripping over shit, all good shows up to a fucking messy site. He's like sweet yeah, how good, clean sight, fucking not tripping over shit, all good shows up to a fucking messy site. He's like, oh, he's fucking idiots.
Speaker 4:You know fucking shit everywhere and shit scaf and yeah fuck this, it just yeah, it literally puts him in a bad mood yeah, that's, yeah, yeah, yeah, so that's his one little trick that's his thing.
Speaker 2:Yes, he's, yeah, but but that is just that's him, just throughout his life. Life, yes, that's the person he is and he is like, I mean his quality is how do you go finding stuff?
Speaker 1:We're just finding it harder and harder and harder to find good quality stuff.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we advertise often and get one or two hits, which usually turn into nothing. Shit, yeah, Like you know, eight weeks in and Mike's like hits, which usually turn into nothing. Yeah, like you know, eight weeks in and Mike's like right, I've had enough. Yeah. It's not worth it. There's nothing.
Speaker 4:Stick with what we've got. Stay smaller, yeah, keep on top of it. And then when someone comes along, I've found the best way to do it is to not look oh, 100%. I was just about to say Wait for them to come to you. And then it seems to be they want it, yeah.
Speaker 3:They reach out, they're like, hey, I love your stuff, is there any opportunity? And you're like, oh, not right now, but I'll call you in a couple of months or whatever.
Speaker 1:Well, we've had that and I don't know people might take this the wrong way or whatever. But I just feel like a lot of the younger people that are thinking they want to get into trades. Like you get them on site and like a couple of days and they're like fuck, don't we sit in every half an hour? Don't I get to look at my phone 50 times a day? Yeah, oh shit. Do I have to work till 4.30? Like it's, yeah, you're looking at me pretty strange there.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, it's Well yeah, the young guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've had young guys and they've. So. I had a young guy start of the year. He left the first. He quit on me the first week. It rained right after Christmas and we're doing a job. It was like we had a time restraint on this job. It was a daycare centre. They were opening up on this date. We had a window. The weather was fucking atrocious. It was just like that was the worst first job back I've had in fucking.
Speaker 2:I think, as long as I can remember the young fella, had he just stuck it out. Yeah, I was about to say he would have been like he would have been great, it would have been great, he just needed to stick it out. But he quit on that first week, obviously, working in the rain, just shit, uh, and what did he do? He was gonna go. You know the trampolines in the malls and they had the kids on the trampolines. Yeah, he was gonna go do that and he was good.
Speaker 4:He did have what it took.
Speaker 3:But why is it? Why not just stick it? No, resilient, like what is?
Speaker 2:it, there's no resilience they just, they just see like the easy road, like that's easy. I get to stand inside, hook some kids up, chuck them on the tramp for their 10 minutes, whatever next I mean that's a happy job, they're having fun.
Speaker 1:They all want to be a tradie like that.
Speaker 4:That's right yeah.
Speaker 1:And they don't want to put in the yards to get to that point? Yeah, but everyone's got to do the hard yards. That's how we all learn.
Speaker 2:That's right, yeah, but I don't know. Is it parents aren't being hard enough on their kids or is it like what is it? Is it? Is it social media?
Speaker 3:going oh, I can go be a youtuber or I can. It's instant gratification. A lot of the times I think, like our daughter sorry, lilly going into teenage years, like we are like that's great and you've done really well. And we're always telling her as long as you try, it doesn't? You know, we don't care about the results. As long as you're putting in the effort and you're trying and we can see that you're doing it, that's fine. But if we give her constructive criticism like oh, you could have done that better, you could have done that, like I know she's hormonal, but it's like the end of the world.
Speaker 1:We don't just let her go. That's cool, everything's okay.
Speaker 4:Everything's positive. It's all fluffy and rainbow.
Speaker 1:I got in trouble on the weekend because they were in the netball finals.
Speaker 3:My 37-degree heat. Four things were dying.
Speaker 1:And I got in trouble by everyone. I say shit how it is. And they had training on the Friday night. And at the training on the Friday night, three-quarters of the team is already talking about they're going to lose, and so I'm like girls it's mindset, don't worry about how hard you play.
Speaker 1:It's mindset. And then they didn't play very well and at the end of the game they were asked how did they play? And they said great. And I said fucking bullshit. No, you actually played shit and you lost the game before you started and I got in trouble.
Speaker 3:Because you went into it with a negative mindset, but yeah, I found that really hot the whole season. I'm like you weren't even meant to be in this division. No one thought you should be in this division. You proved them wrong.
Speaker 2:You've come from second, last place to be third and you made the finals and they're like, yeah, but we're still going to lose. I'm like oh yeah, that there. That's like setting yourself up for failure. That's what you think, that's what you're gonna get. That's what you're gonna get. Yeah, if you say, no, we're gonna go out, we're just gonna fucking give it a best crack, yeah and fucking, but I find that a lot with the young people that it is that instant gratification.
Speaker 1:Like they, they want. They want to become the tradie a lot quicker than it takes. Like even I. I'm not sure about your trade. I'm imagining it's pretty much the same, but in four years. There is no way that someone finishes a carpentry apprenticeship in four years and knows everything about carpentry Like you've got to physically get out there and do it yourself and make mistakes.
Speaker 2:Well, what do they say? It's 10,000 hours to be a master of your trade. Yeah well, that's way more than four years. Yeah, that's like. What would that I mean? Don't even.
Speaker 4:I'm maths-minded, but I'm not that maths-minded.
Speaker 2:You know 38-hour week, times that by 52.
Speaker 4:Yeah, well, it's like our apprentice that's just qualified. Yeah, like Mike always says, you know he's now a tradesman, but he doesn't know the whole trade. He's got another probably four years on top of what he's just done to actually get to a point no, it's constant learning.
Speaker 3:So they need to be told that after the four years, yes, you may be qualified.
Speaker 1:Yes, but you are never going to stop learning they want to finish their time because they want the paycheck that's right, they want yeah yeah, they want the big paycheck because they want to know what the noise is in the shed that's going on I heard chickens before, but I don't think that was a chicken dog, but probably walter yeah, they want to.
Speaker 1:They want to get that sign off as quickly as possible so they can earn more money. But they, like you've got I'm not sure about you, mike, but like I when I finished my time like you still had to earn your weight as a tradesman, like you still had to prove that you knew what you were doing and you still had to put in the hard yards.
Speaker 2:Oh, 100% Like. It was like when I was younger. It was like to have a job. It was like a privilege to have a job, like you've got a job In New Zealand. You fucking do everything you can to not fuck this up, but now it's like like it's a privilege for us to have you working for us, so you quit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, you, you know someone might quit. And then, yeah, they do. They just chase the money. Yeah, just check. But they might be shit at what they do, yeah, but they might be good at shit talking. So they shit talk their way into good money and you know, but they still don't shit work, yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's like we just said, like, because I think that's definitely something that's lost, like I, I that I, my personal opinion is that you should be grateful that you have a job. Like it doesn't matter what level you are apprentice, trader, supervisor, whatever like you should be respectful of the company you work for and show that you're grateful to have a job like because it is a privilege, isn't it, to have a job.
Speaker 2:Well, you think how many I I try and like sometimes when I'm having a fucking bad day and nothing's going right. I think like you got to think like there's probably 10 000 people that would just fucking love to be in my position, like like they would give anything to be in my position, and then you're here going fuck this and fuck that and that's your shit, but you gotta, I was gonna fuck her.
Speaker 3:Oh well, it's actually not that bad yeah, it's just a bad day, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we are very lucky that that's right. Well, I say lucky, but we've all worked very hard to get where we are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've created our life, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, you've got to create your own luck. Yeah, but yeah, I don't know. I just find I worry a bit about where the industry is going to go because, like personally, I think it goes right back to school. I think there's got to be more punishment, like people need to. If you do something wrong, there needs to be punishment for it, because they get no these days. They get no these days.
Speaker 3:They get no punishment, even if it's detention, things through school, like the cane and shit, like we didn't do shit, because I can see you, like justine, over there, but we never got the cane did you get the cane. Yeah, I never got the girls school over here. I did too, but I think I might how old are you?
Speaker 4:I'm old, I'm gonna say we won't say don't go there, like getting that yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a bit of a fear factor. It taught you that if you did something wrong, there was a consequence for it.
Speaker 4:There's a consequence. That's right.
Speaker 1:Yep, and like you see it now, like even like at schools and things, and then, like you see all these Northside crew and these young gangs going around like right, oh well, this is our start time, this is when we have smoko, this is when we finish, this is what we do and they're just really casual because at school they're allowed to do whatever they want, but feel like there's no, there's nothing setting them up to be successful in in life there's no major rules anymore.
Speaker 4:Yeah, there's no. If you do this, this will happen yeah, is it?
Speaker 2:I mean, is it a case of as well parents are busy, just just trying to? Just a hundred percent, yeah, I think that's a big part you know, muddle along, get through it like they're, like you know, and maybe because everything is just so fucking fast-paced- yeah, it is. It's like fucking here, there, everywhere, like there is maybe sort of back. You know 80s, 90s it was a bit slower and like Lungs were at home.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:Like everything's sort of changed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, a bit more, yeah, like a bit more time. Like the old man, he'd fucking give you a fucking hiding.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you were scared, though I was scared of my kids I think your dad gets home from milking.
Speaker 4:That's what I used to hear. You can't hit kids.
Speaker 2:It's like, well, one of our kids, you give him a smack on the ass and he'll go. That's child abuse.
Speaker 4:Literally, literally. I haven't seen a child do that yet. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But it's, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4:And that's what they're seeing on social media, because people are putting on social media that your parents aren't allowed to hit you, they're not allowed to do this, they're not allowed to do that, and it's like you know, take a phone off them, wait till they get phones and you take a phone off them. I was just going to say that is. One thing I say is I'll take your phone and I'm like, oh my god, we're living in a world where, yeah, the first punishment is taking your phone.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's crazy like it, you know, oh, but our second to the phone would be the bike, because they live on their bikes so I'd like to do that at work.
Speaker 1:There's nothing to do more than everyone just sitting on their phones at smoker, like what happened to old school just conversation. Hey mate, what'd you do on the weekend? How's the kids? What are you doing? What was it?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's a football yeah I find myself sitting there and I'll be like, hey, I'll be on my phone too, and then I'll look up and I'll be like this is fucking sad. Yeah, no one's actually having a conversation or you know talking shit. Yeah, they're just fucking. Yeah, I mean I'm bad for it. Yeah, I think we all sort of well it's.
Speaker 1:It's become so common that you like if no one else is communicating. What are you going to do?
Speaker 4:That's right. If you're sitting there with six people, and five of them on their phones, what are you supposed to do? Talk to yourself. Yeah, like sit there and look at the clouds.
Speaker 3:Yeah, maybe we should have a site phone box. No one has put their phones in a box.
Speaker 4:Actually, when I picked the kids out from school today it was like, oh, there's actually a lockbox with 20 phones in it in the office. There's lots of kids that take their phones and they have to put them in the lockbox, or they got busted on their phones Maybe.
Speaker 3:But, that's the thing. Lottie's at high school and when she, I happened to pick her up one day randomly and I was trying to call her to say look, I'm out the front, don. And I was trying to call her to say, look, I'm out the front, don't go to the bus. And she wasn't answering her phone. And I was getting so frustrated because she wasn't answering her phone because every girl that walked out of their school was like this and she finally rang me back she's like what's wrong, mum? And I said are you the only girl at this school that does not have her phone on her face the minute you walk? She's like I don't touch until I get on the bus and I'm like I'm down the front of the school area and then I felt really bad because she's obviously talking to her friends instead of being on her phone yeah, and I'm freaking out because I'm holding up the car line at the front of the school.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but yeah, I was like it's awful it is crazy the way the world's going with all that sort of thing. But like to move on to another topic, like how do you guys find like you guys get to work for a lot of different builders so you see a lot of shit ones, I imagine and good, like how do you, as subbies, pick and choose the builders you're going to work for? Like what, what's things to look out for? How do you know you're going to get paid?
Speaker 4:should I give them my answer, or do you want to give them yours?
Speaker 4:no, no, you give them yours, do both perspectives um, what I do is literally give them one chance. So he goes in there, does the job and if it goes nicely and everything's, you know there's good communication, deposits are paid on time, no one taking 20 photos when we're halfway through a job and picking it stuff and then calling me, then we'll do another job for them. Yeah, but if we get to the point where we're halfway through and it's like, oh my God, why did we do it, that's when we say this will be our one and only.
Speaker 2:Oi, yeah, yeah, a big thing for like us on site is. So you go have a site meeting with someone like you put time aside to go have a site meeting, go over the job. Like'll always try and meet someone there, like whoever, whether it be the boss or their offside, or you'll always try and meet someone there, go over it. Um, I'll always say, oh, we're gonna need some timber work done here, blah, blah, blah. If you so you've done that. And then you sent the boys to site and then they ring in you going was this not done? Was this and that like that there, yeah, that's like, oh, fuck, it's gonna be this, it's gonna be another fucking waiting for them to do their job before we can do it another thing is like, like you give a little, you get a little.
Speaker 2:Like like, as long as there's that, yeah, you know to and fro like, oh, I need this or oh, can you guys, you know we're gonna need you to do this, that's all good. But if, like, it's like one-sided and then they're just fucking, just cocks about it, yeah, then you're like yeah, right, well, I probably won't be doing another one for you yeah, it's got to be give and take, isn't there?
Speaker 1:like if you go out of your way to go meet someone and organize everything, like you've got to think that they're going to follow through and have it ready for you when you show up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and another thing like sometimes you just don't mesh, like you'll meet someone and you're like, yeah, this isn't going to work, like you're just completely different people. Yeah, Like I had one builder a few years ago and he rang me and he said I need you here, I need you here, I need you here, I, I need you here, I need you here, I need you here. I said yeah, well, it's rained for a week, you and everyone else are calling me. And he just kept at me, kept at me and ended up in an argument and I said what? So when you say jump, I'm meant to jump and he goes yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 4:That's what I pay you for. That's how it went.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that was like. You know, people no Give and take, there's no give and take, it's just their way and that's it, yeah, so.
Speaker 1:Because you did a lot of referral work, wouldn't you Like? If you do a good job for a builder, they tell another builder and then they try to. Yeah.
Speaker 4:There is a bit of word of mouth. We don't. The only advertising we have is on our vehicles, quite literally. Yeah.
Speaker 2:We don't do anything of that, yeah, and then we get word of mouth did like, yeah, like at the start, like you know, fresh, and put the instagram instagram up and like you know, like, got that going and that got that, got the wheels turning, yeah, um. But then when you get busy, like, then you just get busy and you just got another fucking yeah coming in. Then yeah, and then too busy. The next thing, you know, you just fucking swamped with work. I mean, it's a good thing most of the time. It can be a bad thing sometimes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I think it's really important to know your client. Like so many tradies just keep taking on the wrong clients and it's the cause of a lot of their problems. Like you're going with your guts and just knowing who you don't want to work with.
Speaker 4:That's a huge part of a successful business. Yeah, it is. Um, I think between the two of us, when it comes to the admin side and then the on-site side, we kind of have a conversation, see how it's going, and he'll, you know, he'll say to me oh you know, I dealt with this today, or this guy's a dickhead. Pretty much that's how it goes, um, and then you know, you get I was just saying to him on the way here sometimes there's builders who will say you've got the job and then just pay you a deposit without even because they think then they've got you Like yeah, yeah yeah, like you're locked in.
Speaker 4:You're locked in, so you can't say no to this job. We've paid you a deposit and I'm like no, no, no, no, don't send me a deposit until I send you an invoice, because we don't invoice, oh, before you've even sent an invoice.
Speaker 4:Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, because they think that's literally got a gun to our head, so to speak. Yeah, and you're locked in for this job. So when we want you, you will be there and you will jump. Yeah, and to me that's a warning signal of there's no give and take. This is you pushing yourself on us.
Speaker 1:Do you get builders that do that and think that by doing that they're showing you that they're good payers, but then come the next pay when they don't pay?
Speaker 4:Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah, no, it might be that, but to me it always feels like they're just being a bit too pushy. Yeah, and I never invoice until the material's ordered, because you never know what can happen between site measure and delivery.
Speaker 3:I, that's what I was just thinking, like it could be like we work on jobs together for six or 12 months. It could be price and we always check is this current still before we get a contract. Yep, make sure everything's good. Have we missed anything? Or this has changed, or there's new sets of plans or whatever?
Speaker 4:Yeah, like you can't foresee that stuff, I've looked at it and just seen. You can't give me a price rise, wait a minute. The faces have changed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then come back to you with they've made changes.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's right, but it's no. Yeah, I had one of those this morning and I was just like, oh you know.
Speaker 1:So how do you deal with builders that don't pay bills, like I got, even right at the moment? I was telling you just before, like we've got a couple of subbies that are continuing to do work for builders that are 120 days out, 60 days out. I just keep telling them stop doing the work.
Speaker 4:That's what we do. We literally just say we will not be attending site until you're paid to date, and then we will come back, and when I invoice you, if you don't pay it again, we will stop doing work. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's just you've got at the moment, especially in the current climate, you've got to play hardball. You go yeah, I mean you just go money's owed complaint. That's, that's the pc way of doing it. I guess you know like, go through the motions, money's owed complaint if they haven't paid you, what's that?
Speaker 4:qbcc money's owed complaint talking through that.
Speaker 1:Uh, so where are we building that pays our bills?
Speaker 3:so through, like the bifact or whatever it's called um.
Speaker 4:If you've got a contract, it it's the contract, or if you don't have a contract, it reverts to the BIFACT. Yeah, but the QBCC are literally toothless tigers. So we had, so do you have a contract?
Speaker 1:with every builder you work for no no.
Speaker 2:Oh, you have your subcontractor agreement.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's right yeah.
Speaker 2:But like not every job, you're not Signing a contract.
Speaker 1:Yeah it's just a blanket. And then you get I think you do it with us like you get us to sign off your quote and pay a deposit.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think that's by us signing your quote off. That's saying that we.
Speaker 2:That's a contract.
Speaker 4:That's sort of like legally binding, isn't it? That's a contract, federal. Revert to the perfect, yeah, but if you don't pay within, that certain period.
Speaker 3:And also, sharon, if there's an issue with the invoice not with Honey with you, but if there's an issue from an invoice from a trade she has to respond within a certain amount of days to say we're not paying you because of this.
Speaker 4:I think it's 15 days. You've got 15 days to respond with a payment schedule.
Speaker 3:But not. A lot of trades have just seen an office to do that. Yeah, so that's where I think a lot of people get unstuck.
Speaker 4:Yes, and when you're owed like a lot of these guys that are owed, you know, $100,000, they probably just think I'll just keep going to work because I've got to keep making money, because they're not paying me so I've got to find it somewhere else.
Speaker 1:I hear stories all the time like a lot of builders go oh look, if you come and do this, I'll fix you up that. More work.
Speaker 4:And they still don't get fixed up no, because that builder is trying to get to the next stage.
Speaker 2:Claim yeah, yeah. So the next job, yeah, is paying this job's paying for the previous job.
Speaker 4:That's stealing from peter to pay paul yeah yeah, that's what they, you know, and if you're trading in solvent, that's how it works yeah, so how do you like, do you get many of those type of? I'd say we lose maybe 50 grand a year. Nah, what have we lost 50? Last year, two builders One literally went MIA.
Speaker 2:I mean I've gone to, I've seen builders on site and I've pulled up at the job site and I've bailed them up on the scaffold in front of all their boys Like where the fuck's the money, why haven't you paid the fucking bill? Oh, I'll pay it, I'll pay it. And then one guy, he really took off to Adelaide, Just got his licence suspended and then took off to Adelaide.
Speaker 4:Yeah With, you know half-finished properties. I think two half-finished properties, oh no, it's if you dig like.
Speaker 2:So when I went through, so the builder that screwed me and it took us five years to get the money out of them. They've just Gone to liquidation, yeah, yeah. So they went to liquidation this year, which is like that's the best thing that could have ever happened To them. Building industry in Brisbane, Like Justine started digging and like digging, digging, digging, digging, Relentless digging of digging. And like digging, digging, digging, digging, relentless digging.
Speaker 4:And like the amount of people that they owed money to was I think at their first creditors meeting they were up to 14 million holy shit.
Speaker 1:Well, that's a, that's a big. They must have been doing a lot of homes to get that sort of money.
Speaker 2:Well, they just ah well, they were doing government stuff, I think, like, like you know, gold coast, high rise, high right, eight story buddy apartment buildings and stuff like that and just still need to pay for yeah so this is to me, like I just think it's.
Speaker 1:I actually think it's criminal that our industry doesn't have some sort of registration that if you're a subbie that hasn't been paid and look, there's always two sides to the story but if you're if subbie that hasn't been paid, and look, there's always two sides to the story but if you've got a certain amount of money that's been outstanding for I don't know, let's say 60 days or 100 days, you can't go to this registry, put their details on there to show every other subbie and client and everybody out there that this person's on this registry. Because if you're running a great business, you understand your overheads, you're charging the right money and your money's like your cash flow should be fine.
Speaker 1:You shouldn't have to worry about like we as a builder, like we shouldn't have to worry about you getting our roof on so that we can go and do a draw to our client, Like it's our responsibility as a building company to be able to fund whatever work, the money, whatever work we need to done on site to get it to that stage so that we can put a drawing.
Speaker 2:yep, well, that's how I do it yeah, 100, yeah, yeah, oh, that that's a big thing. Is like, oh, I need to get this on because I need to need to make a draw, and that's like alarm bells. Well, it's a pain in the ass from like a stress point of view, because it's like you'll put like yeah, we're here doing it, but you're like more pressure on, don't put your financial pressure on me, like that's your thing. I'm here doing the job, we'll get it done. Don't, yeah, don't, offload your shit onto me.
Speaker 1:I guess I've got enough of my own crap to deal with on a daily basis, so how, like you've recently been through it, so you were part of a builder that got sent into a shutdown, yeah, so the process is QBCC money's.
Speaker 4:I complaint, and then if the builders are well-schooled in how the process works, they will literally just say we're disputing the invoices and then the QBCC don't have any power. What they literally say to you if you want to take it further, go to QCAT, get a lawyer. And that's when it gets expensive. And that's when it gets expensive. So this builder, we put the upper roof on and then I put two 20% claims in and they didn't pay them and they were two weeks late paying their deposit, which was off the bat, bad luck. And then, when the invoice was overdue by 40 days, they came to me and said oh, we've got a defect. And I'm like I find it a bit strange that you've waited 40 days to bring this up. I spoke to your husband a few weeks ago and he said no, no, your quality's great, we're really happy with it, everything's fine. I was like, right, ok. So then I thought actually I'll just start digging, I'll do what I do and I'll just start digging, I'll do what I do.
Speaker 4:And then found out they owed a scaffolding company from the day the scaffold had been put up. They hadn't paid a cent over from February till July August. Oh no, yep. And then another roofer from a previous job, the plumber from the job that we were on painter, and it ended up being $190,000. So we just got affidavits from everyone from the job that we were on painter and it ended up being 190 grand. So we just got affidavits from everyone and we did the stat deck, which is a wind-up on a company, and the judge said if it was just for the 23 grand you were owed, maybe not, but because you've got all this together and it's now 190, done.
Speaker 3:So you really should be talking to your other trades on site to make sure that everyone's, and that's what I think builders that are trading insolvent.
Speaker 4:They rely on the fact that trades don't talk.
Speaker 4:Everyone's a separate gang Because we're in first we're one of the first roofs on then get everyone in. So we don't really see anyone on site apart from the chippies. Yeah, so our builder that took us for 75 grand. Five years ago that was the same thing. So we were there, they cancelled the contract and trespassed the company. If you turn up, we're going to call the cops. You know hadn't paid us 75 grand for three separate houses. And then I started talking to people and it was massive amounts of money between myself and the electrician that was on the same job. Huge, yeah, I think yeah like I.
Speaker 1:Like I got a few people reach out to me now, even like our own tradies, say, oh, have you heard this about this? Or whatever, like I think one of the first thing traders should do if they think about doing work for a new builder is say to the builder, like can you give us a list of 10 of your trades?
Speaker 4:oh, it's like us getting credit with someone references. Yeah, why should they not have to give up?
Speaker 3:yeah, I agree. I was just about to say surely there needs to be some kind of registry.
Speaker 2:Well, we can all talk. When we were going through the that big one where they took us for the 75, we had two people googled us and it came up with the qcat thing and they asked the question. They said oh, what, like? What's the story?
Speaker 4:did you not finish a job, or you know? And I said, no, no, we are the applicants we have, so you can like yeah, you can get on the old yeah. So it negatively impacted our business yeah when we hadn't been paid. Yeah, so, but it was just a bit of grit and I just, you know, didn't give up, but that's $75,000.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like that's someone's nearly yearly wage. That's right. That's just not what you that they're losing.
Speaker 1:Like, if you like, in reality that's not. It's not $75,000.
Speaker 2:Like for you to make profit out of 75,000. You've got to earn triple that to get that money back. Well, we were 100 grand in the hole to a supplier and it took us 12 months to pay them off. Get the communication up, justine. I mean, she's queen of communication. She just rings everyone and annoys them, and just this is where we're at.
Speaker 1:This is the situation Every time I see Justine come up.
Speaker 4:I'm like, oh see, justine I feel bad when I don't know I'm like a little bit winky screen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she got a new screen, though the other day she ran like how did you get that? I want that. On what? Was it it comes up with the the lag like the logo. I did that of a chicken and you told me to take it down.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's like. What is this? I said you can change your profile to be a chicken. And then I thought I'm going to change it to the poo emoji, so when I call it, comes up with that. But that wasn't funny either but it's um, I, I.
Speaker 1:The other excuse I really hate is like you touched on before as builders, um, dragging it out and then saying there's a defect, like that shits me to tears. Like if you put a roof on there, like our process is, once the roof goes on, we get whoever needs to come in might be Sparky, put solar on antenna or whatever. Todd or I do a walk of the roof and check it before the scaffold's coming down. So literally we're doing an inspection, I would say normally within three, five days of use, finishing the roof. The fact that someone's waiting 40 to make an excuse to not pay some money they don't have, yeah, like it's just ridiculous and you hear it all the time. Like we hear it from our tilers and our plasterer like, yeah, no, I'm not getting paid because they've told me that I haven't done the plastering properly and yet. And then he goes back to check it and it's all painted and tile. But yeah, mate, come on, but you can't get.
Speaker 4:Continue with all the other trade if there's an obvious defect, you would have wanted me to fix that before you carried on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah yeah, like there's a lot of signs that builders um I I feel like a lot of tradies need to just start saying no, like just walk away from these builders that aren't running good businesses and aren't paying bills and they're fucking people around yeah, I think, yeah, it can be hard to well.
Speaker 2:Well, not hard, I think you're always. You're always like fuck, all right, I've got to make sure the work's there, I've got to make sure I've got work coming in. And that's where you can get caught out because you're like right, we fucking. Yeah, all right, we probably need this job because this will take us through to here and then that one will start, and then, but you're right, you're right.
Speaker 4:Sometimes, if you just say no, like we, we'll say no to something and then, a week later, just be flooded with emails from new builders yeah, quote this, so it's as crazy as it is.
Speaker 1:Honestly, the universe rewards you. If you say no, if you follow your gut, like, at the end of the day, if we all followed our guts and said, look, sorry, mate, can't do your work like, the universe will reward you. That's right, sending you better, quality jobs yeah, it does the same with clients.
Speaker 3:If you get a feeling like we're just not the people, like yes, you'll be right for someone else, just not for us.
Speaker 4:It's like him with some builders just don't mish. Yeah, it's just not gonna work. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:All right. So, moving on to another last subject, probably Just working together. Couples working together. Eh, this is a it's always a hot topic. Camilla and I have done a few solo podcasts together talking about this, Like how do you guys stay?
Speaker 4:Married.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, healthy, healthy relationship.
Speaker 2:Oh, I suppose Do you want to do this one-on-one, no, no.
Speaker 2:Like. So I suppose, like I say to this to the boys on site like if we have a disagreement or might have words about something, you leave it at the gate, like it's got to be the same, Like we'll have an argument about something at work but it never carries through, to like dinner time where we're sitting at the table as the kids. It's like whatever, if I can deal with that tomorrow, fuck it is what it is. Like it's going to happen. Like fucking. Some days I'm just like, for fuck's sake, same, it's the same. And then other days everything's all good and then she might get fucked off with me because I've fucking done something or I fucking said I was going to do something and I just didn't do it or I ran out of time or it's just, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I suppose you just deal with it and you can't take it personally.
Speaker 4:You know, it took me a while to not take it personally. Yeah, yeah, because you know each other, but you while to not take it personally. Yeah, yeah, because you don't. You know, you know each other, but you're not working together from day dot. And then, when you start working together, you're like oh, some days you're like I don't even know if I like this guy anymore.
Speaker 3:I think it's also nice that like we chat yes, like we don't chat all the time- but Camille and I have a good little session every couple of weeks, yeah, and yeah, you're not only in that position like we. I think we all go through. It's very similar.
Speaker 4:So I think every yeah wife yeah, tradie, that's working in the. You know the back office. Yeah, it's all the same types of issues you go through and feelings and yeah there's, you know it's, but I think if you've got a good relationship and you can communicate, that's a major which most folks can't.
Speaker 1:We know, nah, she has it out what we interpret as something, you interpret as something very different. But I liked what you said before, like you've got the same goal.
Speaker 4:That's right, yeah.
Speaker 1:Like it took us a little while, I think, to get on that same page. Yeah, like I don't know, camille might have a different view, but with her getting like I'm sure a building business wasn't her first choice. So the goals at the beginning were very different, because I always wanted to have a successful building business. So we did buttheads and there was a lot of times when shit would hit the fan. She's like I don't even fucking want to do this, but we got through it all.
Speaker 3:Still don't know if I want to do this. He just keeps piling stuff onto my desk. I'm thinking about doing this, but we were talking the other day like I enjoy the challenge as much as I whinge about it Like you're like, oh, I think I'm going to get a website together. I'm like okay, cool, and then I just do it.
Speaker 4:It becomes part of your deal. That's right, I should say that's good for you.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's good, you have fun with that and like the farm, like I want to do this and I'm like I just want to sit up there and drink coffee and read a book. I don't want to talk to people.
Speaker 4:I don't're gonna do this, so we're gonna do that, and, like I'm not cleaning toilets like everything and but now I'm like, okay, so we're nearly there, that's right. The website's. I'm like, yes, and I think, um, the challenge, yeah, doing it together, yeah as a like common goal, it's a, it's a mission, but it's a, I think, um what we kind of always look ahead. It's always what's what's next, what's it done this, and we've done this and we've renovated, and now we're at this point. What are we doing next?
Speaker 2:I definitely don't think we wouldn't be in the position we are if it wasn't for Justine Like just going all right, I'm just going to saddle up and I'm really stubborn. This is me now. It would have just been like a fucking yeah and I would have fucking flaming mess and fucking I'd be probably working to someone like you know, you can only do so much in a day and without being like getting burnt out and that's kind of why I stepped in, because he's good at what he does.
Speaker 4:Yeah, he loves doing what he does, but if you're doing too much then, like you said, you don't enjoy it and you lose the love for it. And that's where he was getting to and I was like he can't not do this because he's good at it. Yeah, so he just needs a bit of help and it'll be all right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah there's a lot of benefits, like once you're both working together, like you like just the things you get to do with family and you can like, you can plan around, like if you know what's going on with family, you can plan, work around it and all those types of things.
Speaker 4:Like there's huge amounts of benefits I think, yeah, like with school and stuff like sports days and you know, having a couple of hours to zip to a cross country or something you know, yeah, that's something you don't really like, because nannying I didn't get to do any of that stuff. Yeah, so it's.
Speaker 2:It's having the flexibility to enjoy things a little more I think another thing is like like trust, like you know you can trust your partner. Yeah, it's always going to do the right, what's right for the business, what's right for the family, yeah, and you like, there's never that sort of oh, fuck, fuck are they, you know, are they going to rip me off, or are they taking this seriously, or are they going to drop the ball? Or, you know, like pimping your wife? It's like, oh, you know what to expect.
Speaker 4:Most of the time, I guess.
Speaker 1:Like does it excite you guys? Obviously you've come a long way. Like, honestly, I didn't, honestly, you were doing our work before you. I'll still be, in my mind. Knowing that you were a nanny when you started doing our work, because I would never have expected that you were doing something else. Well, you were doing split shifts.
Speaker 2:I was doing split shifts. Yeah, come home during the day, pump out a few plans, go back to work at 2.30.
Speaker 4:Oh, my god so. I'd work from 7 till 9, get work at 2.30. Oh my God, yeah. So I'd work from 7 till 9, get home at 9.30, and then leave home at 2. So from 9.30 till 2 every day I was Aberhart roofing, yeah, and then at night time quite often too. Because I kind of think I'm not getting enough done then to keep up with what's coming in via email, I'll just make it up at night time when the kids are going to bed the kids are going to bed?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but does it like it excites you now seeing how far you guys are coming in such a short period, like you're like what's next?
Speaker 4:Because we moved here in 2000,. Well, it was 2009 and he was 2010 and we literally had. I had $2,000 in the bank at 30 and then he came about six months later with $1,500, I think. And there, just and that was it just absolutely dug it in and all right because you've done well like. And then, what is it? What are we? 10 years business, 10 years, I think we.
Speaker 3:Our ibm was august 2013, so 11 yes yeah, and see, that's a good lesson for people as well who think they've been in business for two or three years and, oh, we're making this and that, like it is a long, oh the like yeah, yep, and the the you know the fuck.
Speaker 2:is this going to pay off? Yep, but then when you're out the other end or well, you're never really out- the other end, but you know like when you reach that, like that milestone of oh fuck, actually you know it's all running right, like everything's paid on time. Everyone's paid on time, yeah, like you're like all right sweet.
Speaker 4:And then time like there's never like, you're like all right, sweet, and then like, once you got that sort of mastered, then you can focus on the next thing. Yeah, it's just evolving all the time it is.
Speaker 2:It's never stagnant, there's never nothing to do or worry about, or I think you're always trying to better yourself, like I've probably stepped back off the tools a little bit more this year and like now it's like like it's all learning again. I'm like all right, so if I'm gonna fucking do this properly, I've got to like I've got to get my shit together and actually master. Making sure he is on, he is on site, everything's right, the boys know where they're at. If there's a problem, you know you deal with the problem, get that sorted so you know it doesn't cost you time. Yeah, so you're always learning.
Speaker 1:I think the day you go, I know it all, it's probably the day you should retire yeah, yeah, yeah, the um, like I, I just think it's so, like it, I keep getting addicted by it, like the more that things improve and the better you do it. Just, you just want to keep going. That next level and that next level and I think, like people need to understand that it is. It's you've got to keep going to that next level, because the grind never stops. It doesn't. Yeah, yeah, but like, how excited.
Speaker 1:I'm sure you guys are saying like for me it's been incredibly exciting, like when I think back to the days where our cash flow was shit and we didn't know our numbers, and like I still remember, like sitting down like sharon, our accounts manager, like she's been with me 19 years, they um. Like I remember the days where I had to sit with her, we'd print all the bills out and I'd have to go through them with a red pen and a ruler and I'd put lines through the ones that we could afford to pay and we used to have to go well, these are the ones we can pay, those ones we're going to have to make an excuse and send an email and say, oh, we'll pay you next week or whatever. Yep, and it wasn't months.
Speaker 3:It was like next week. Yeah, it wasn't months, it was days, days or weeks.
Speaker 1:But going from that position to now, like I, very rarely get asked Like the bills come in. They just get paid Like the business has got cash flow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's like this is here, that's there, that's there, that's there there, and you're like, okay, cool, but it takes a long time to learn that, yeah and to get into a routine and how it all works but that I think that comes back to I think you're saying before about like having like guys that are coming up going. I can't afford an admin person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like no, you need to be able to, probably should prioritize that, because if you don't prioritize that and I mean we saw it at the start Like we didn't take it seriously Well, it's not that we didn't take it seriously, it was just like it was all learning and all new and like fuck, you know how do we do this? And not wanting to ask for help.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah just being stubborn and going Nah.
Speaker 2:I've got this. I can get this sorted.
Speaker 1:Well, we've built the Training business like, we've systemized everything. Like we know from systemizing everything, like 80 of the task it takes to run a trade or building business is off site.
Speaker 1:Like when you think about like the only things that happen on site are the physical, putting the materials, together like, everything else is off site the pricing, the ordering, the specifications, the plans, the like, scheduling, like and so like. When you're a tradie that just goes to site and throws a roof on or smashes a frame up or like in your head, it's very hard to have that transition from going from a tradie to a business and that's what many people don't understand.
Speaker 4:Like we always talk about that, the fact that people see what we're doing and how it works, and they see instagram and they see all that stuff, but they don't actually know how much goes in behind the scenes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to get that roof on that building and that, like whether it's a trade or a builder, like that, 80 is the most expensive part, yeah, and. But everyone will look with roofing like everyone just questions the roofing, oh, the roofing that should only cost that much. But they don't realise that the other money is spent in the running of the business. That's right, and if you want a good job, you have to be running the business. Yeah yep.
Speaker 1:It's yeah, I'm a big thing Like. I think every tradie anyone that's listening to this every tradie needs to figure out, understand their costs. Charge more to have admin help, like and, and. If it is their partner or wife or whatever, that's fine, but they have to get paid pay them and learn how to communicate with each other.
Speaker 3:Figure out your roles and tasks because, like we were talking about the and I've talked about this before on the podcast the tradie wives and the builders, all those Facebook pages and the horror stories you hear, and half the time it's like push on, like it's okay, just talk to him, like, or you, or figure out, like if you know your roles and tasks and you understand what the process for the day is or the week or whatever job's going on, like you'll be fine, you'll be fine, just keep pushing, yeah. But the ones that are just like oh no, can't do it anymore, he doesn't. You have to listen to each other and you have to learn how to communicate with each other at work and then, like you said, go home and like just be husband and wife yeah, let it go. Yeah, like last night. Oh, what about this? I'm like. I'm not actually talking to you about this. I've clocked out. Can you send?
Speaker 3:me an email. Send me an email. I burnt my hand cooking the other night because you annoyed me so much because you were asking me questions. I grabbed the pen. I'm like that's your fault. That's your fault. I occasionally try and sleep in a bit it might not be about DPS, it could be about anything, but I'm like it's work, I'm not interested yeah.
Speaker 1:I need. I'm sure you're the same way Like I think tradies, like we just like number one, we're blokes, so we don't communicate very good.
Speaker 1:And ladies Anyway, and yeah, there's females out there as well now but we just think so differently, like, and it's, we get into it because, like I'm sure you're the same as me Like I got into it because I just loved being outside. I didn't want to sit in a classroom, I didn't want people telling me what to do and I just wanted to go and build shit. That's exactly right, and then to get to have a business. It's a whole other thing. And then, like I even know now, like I still interpret things very different to what more higher educated people do. I say things to people that I I say because I think I'm explaining it correctly, but they take it very differently. Like we all seem to have this different way of it's thinking as well.
Speaker 4:It's the way of thinking some people like tradies are very practical. Yeah, they literally they're doers with their hands, they want to make stuff, they want to do stuff. So someone that writes something for a living doesn't pick up what you're putting down. Yeah, when it comes to practicality, which is is and that's a communication.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've been picking that up a little bit lately and we've been talking about it. I think I need to create more explanations around certain products and things that are on site Like and it could be like a roofing thing, like if the designer, architect I may not know if they've explained the profile of that roof or the cladding or what it's going to look like. So I think I need to provide more visual aspects to the clients because, or like windows or hinges or this like it might just be a standard hinge, but what is that?
Speaker 3:because different types of people interpret things in different ways and terminology and terminology, and like I want people and clients and trades, whoever if you don't understand, like, ask the question because it's not because you're dumb, no, it's because you do not know. Yeah, and if you don't ask the question, because if we can all just communicate and ask the question, it'll be fine yeah, but it's, it's, it is.
Speaker 1:It's a really tricky one because you don't. You don't know what you don't know no, but it's the same with codies.
Speaker 3:I'm like does that make sense? Like, please tell me, you know.
Speaker 2:So I don't know that I should be asking you a certain question like yeah, I mean, that comes back to the uh, this always pops up communication, like that is the one thing everyone's like communication, communication, communication, yeah, yeah, yeah it is a thing.
Speaker 1:We'll start to wrap it up. You guys got anything else you want to get off your chest or you're talking to the industry. No, how can people find you? How do they find abahart roofing?
Speaker 2:instagram yeah, just just look us up on instagram. We don't, yeah, don't do much advertising. No website, no, a lot of just word of mouth yeah, yeah, good job, I suppose, yeah, you're just drawing there, just try and keep the quality there and the work generally follows. Yeah.
Speaker 4:And I think being good to deal with is a major yeah, yeah. Like that's a big part of it is being available is first thing. If you miss a call, call the person back, yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh, I love that we have a phone tag.
Speaker 4:Our games are great good. Yeah, I'm like she's probably on the phone to someone else and she's going oh, justine's ringing.
Speaker 1:Guys really appreciate you coming on having a chat, um, I guess for all traders and bills out there, they're listening to this like you've heard a lot of, I guess, behind the scenes today, of uh, what it takes to run a successful business. So, um, take it on board, take notes, have a think about things. Um, yeah, go and check out abahart roofing. They do great work. If you're a builder in brisbane, go and check them out if you need a new roofer. But, um, and as we said at the beginning, go to the duanepeircecom website and load up on merch. We want to see every tradie builder, um, client, anybody, kids, women, anybody. We're a level up merch. So, um, look forward to seeing you on the next podcast. Please hit the subscribe button and we'll keep doing what we do.
Speaker 5:Cheers, guys are you ready to build smarter, live better and enjoy life? Then head over to live like buildcom forward, slash, elevate to get started. Everything discussed during the level up podcast with me, duane pierce, is based solely on my own personal experiences and those experiences of my guests. The information, opinions and recommendations presented in this podcast are for general information only, and any reliance on the information provided in this podcast is done at your own risk. We recommend that you obtain your own professional advice in respect to the topics discussed during this podcast.