Level Up with Duayne Pearce
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Level Up with Duayne Pearce
How a building designers journey to build his own home almost broke him.
ep. #119 Join us with David Dimovski from David Belle Design as we explore the notion that bigger isn't always better and the importance of building homes that are built to last.
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Our clients are making decisions based on real estate agents telling them that they need four bedrooms, three garages, five bathrooms, 50 living areas and 500 downlights.
Speaker 2:What are we doing? Even around where I'm living I'm sure it's the same where you are too there's houses that were only built 10 years ago. They're gone.
Speaker 1:Everyone bangs on about sustainability and helping the planet, and yet we have volume builders building tens of thousands of homes a year that are designed to last 15 to 30 years.
Speaker 2:It's wild hey.
Speaker 1:I wanna demonstrate to people that smaller is better, that less is more and we need to disconnect to reconnect. G'day guys, welcome back to another episode of level up. We are back in the recording studio or the office this afternoon um, because I guess we have with us is in another part of australia, but, um, I'm super pumped about this one. We have got some is in another part of Australia, but I'm super pumped about this one. We have got some cracking questions coming your way which I have some pretty strong opinions on and I know my guest does as well. So we're going to open up a few cans of worms, I think, today with today's conversation. The guest we've got with us today I just want to go back a little bit before I tell you who it is, because he actually started as a mechanic and now is running. David Bell Design is a passive house designer, has built his own home and loves old cars. Got a couple of cars in the garage. So massive welcome to David from David Bell Design. How are you, mate?
Speaker 2:Good mate. Thanks for having me Appreciate it.
Speaker 1:No, mate. Look, social media is a very powerful tool for some very good reasons. It's also powerful for some bad reasons, but the good reasons are that I get to meet and interact with great people like yourself. So we've been having a bit of a I guess chat on social media, for I was just having a look before like over 18, nearly 18 months now.
Speaker 1:And so it's powerful when you connect with people that have similar passions or interests and those types of things. So thanks for reaching out to start with, and finally we get to actually have a chat face to face.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's awesome. It's good that we can do this. I really wanted to get up there and check out the shed when I heard that you had like that. I think it was a I don't know how many horsepower it had, but it was a naturally aspirated Holden up there.
Speaker 1:I think I don't know how many horsepower it had, but there was a naturally aspirated Holden up there. I think, oh, I had a Camaro. I sold my Camaro probably 12 months ago there but, I had a 68 Camaro with a 598 big block made 1,340 horsepower aspirated.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's wild, like I know what goes into get that horsepower naturally aspirated and that's like a lot of money.
Speaker 1:Actually believe it or not, like I could talk all day about the car thing. Yeah, it wasn't actually like most engines with that sort of amount of horsepower or a fair bit of maintenance, but it, to be honest, like it was. Probably it was tamed back a little bit, so it was actually built. It was actually built to um take 600 a nos on top of that wow and I never got the opportunity to put the nos on it, but it didn't really take too much maintenance, but I love the cars.
Speaker 1:Mate, I don't know about you, but personally I think you can't beat a high revving, naturally aspirated car like it.
Speaker 2:Just they are fun. I so I've got. I think I showed you a photo ages ago um an xy falcon. Um, I'm a, I'm a ford guy. I'm not like I like holdens and stuff. I actually done my apprenticeship with holden, so you should see my dad's face.
Speaker 1:I won't hold that against you, mate pardon, I won't hold that against you.
Speaker 2:No, no, don't. I thought you were a holden bloke, aren't you? Yeah?
Speaker 1:I'm a holden guy. Yeah, yeah, I don't mind.
Speaker 2:I was there when it was like um ve series one, series two, so that was like kind of my time working there. But um, yeah, I've always been into cars. I bought that when I was like 15 and then me and my dad just built it. Back then you could build a car for like I think I spent like 12 grand on it and you know 17 on my red peas cruising out on a gt replica. It was pretty, it was pretty cool man. 351 four speed top loader nine inch. It was awesome, we painted.
Speaker 1:It came out really good, haven't driven it in 12 years but you can't beat four on the floor, mate, like I. Um. My first car was a hz ute um and it had a worked uh 253 in it but it had an m21 gearbox and, yeah, you could smash through the gears.
Speaker 2:It was awesome, yeah 253 is a fantastic motor and the um the ford 289, like those, those small cubes, but like high revving, oh, they're the best man you don't need turbo, you don't need superchargers, just yeah, like you said, just na and cruising, they're the best, yeah I like, I like the sound of all and you can't like naturally aspirated.
Speaker 1:It's freaking awesome, but um, I've got a blown 430 in my shed, yeah um, but, mate, let's get off the cars, because everyone's here to listen. Talk about building. So how do you go from being a motor mechanic and into your cars to becoming a building designer?
Speaker 2:um. So when I was younger, I remember like my mum was always like sitting on the cash drawing house plans, because she always had wild ideas of, like you know, selling the house, buying it, doing this and that, and I used to just sit there and draw plans with her and um, then I put that down and you know, I grew up, got out of school and I actually had a. I had an opportunity to do um carpentry, so carpentry, or mechanic, and I'm like, well, I like cars and um you know, I thought that would be a really good idea and then I'd done the three years, four years there and I just realized that um light vehicle automotive mechanics some make money, some don't. I was one that really didn't. I was, I think I was pretty good at my job.
Speaker 2:Um, I was a lot into um. I was more so into like auto electrical diagnosis, so it you know, cars these days they're just, you know, body control models, modules, and it gets it got very confusing. So I kind of specialize in diagnosis more so than mechanical repairs and um, I think the most you got out of that was like I remember finishing it was like under 800 bucks a week back then, like you know, 12 years ago, and I was like far out, that was yeah that's not really good.
Speaker 1:It's a hard way to make a living.
Speaker 2:It's weird, because the it is. Yeah, unless you own a garage and you're willing to do it that way, you can make some money that way. But then I just thought during my fourth year, instead of just sitting idle, what I'll do is I'll actually go study mechanical engineering, because there's a Cert IV in automotive mechanical, or we can do something else. I thought, well, I'll go do something else and maybe I can go to get back into BHP or Bluescope or something, because I used to labor there outside of school and I went and I've done like the all the mathematics courses, all that stuff that you needed.
Speaker 2:I really I started to like mathematics and if you saw me in high school, brother, I'm not, I'm not that guy, you know what I mean, not for maths and I was doing like some some really advanced mathematics. I'm like, okay, well, when you've got a good teacher and he's passionate and he wants to teach you, it's actually really easy to learn. So I got started getting pretty decent at maths and I managed to do that during my fourth year. So when I became a tradesman I thought at least I've got something to fall back on finished the advanced diploma of mechanical engineering over the fifth year, and that's when I was just kind of um. I went from there and I worked for a, a contractor for the um, for the military, so like as a civilian, but just on an army base, maintaining um army equipment. That, like you know, stuff would come back from afghanistan and iraq or they'd be yeah, like they'd be stuffed um.
Speaker 2:So just, uh, boats, marine, that kind of stuff would be like a trade repair coordinator, just organized maintenance, yeah, um. And then from there we started having kids, got married, um, built the first house, um. And then I just decided to do a deployment building design to pick up where I went because I've always liked it yeah, so the passions come from a young age, like you, just you're having interest in it it's interesting, I like it.
Speaker 2:It's cool to make little spaces. You know, if it's, I used to build tree houses and I'm 37, I don't know. Like you know, I don't think kids do that these days anymore, but we had a tree in the backyard we could build and stuff and with the neighbors, kids and all that. So I always like to do that kind of stuff. I think in hindsight I probably would have taken the carpentry apprenticeship over the mechanic apprenticeship because I think, um, the cars is more of a hobby. I like doing that stuff on the side. I don't think not to say I made a mistake. I'm happy where I am, but you know, I could have been doing something else, which is never too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you can't, um, you can't change what you've done, mate, so you just got to pair on with where you are. But yeah, exactly the um, like you're doing some pretty cool stuff now in the, in the design space for sure yeah um, and then you've got involved in the the passive house stuff as well yeah, which I.
Speaker 2:From what I understand, you're a little bit on the fence about, but I think you're coming you're coming over a little bit to the nah, no, oh look, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I'm sitting on the fence I yeah, okay I got some pretty strong opinions on the way some of this stuff's done, but um, yeah, well, I'm, I'm not.
Speaker 2:Um, I don't make people do passive house. You know, I always compare it to like trying to make people vegan. People just don't want to hear it. You know what I mean. So it's like as soon as you try and convince someone to do something, their eyes just glaze over and they don't want to know. So I just try and encourage people to just do a bit better. And my clients, I really make sure that, like they don't have to, they don't want to do passive houses fine. But if we can just hit like three or four of the five key principles, um, yeah, that's you're, you're in the top. You know one percent of homes anyway once you do that. So, because everything else is so shit, you don't have to do much to actually have a pretty good house yeah, and that's where I sit, mate, like oh, my passion is building really high quality homes and now that I've learned a lot more, like I've done the passive s course and I understand that and um, the healthy home.
Speaker 1:I've done a couple of healthy home courses now that's like I just want to deliver my clients high quality, healthy homes. Um, I don't know. I've got some other podcasts coming up, but that whole sustainability thing and passive housing and I think there's a lot of words that are just used too much. It's like architecture you have volume builders saying they're architectural builders and they're building boxes with a nice facade.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Everything's an architectural home now yeah, yeah, I think there's horses for courses, like the passive house, like if I was, if I was living in a cold climate, I would probably be a lot more inclined to to go down that path. My look, my core values are like. I believe, like we're humans, we need to take some responsibility. I don't feel that our houses, our cars, our technology should be doing everything for us. Um, like it's up to us to, I guess, if it's cold, put a jumper on. If it's hot, open some windows, get some ventilation, like, um, I think common sense is just completely thrown out the window and yeah, um, so that that's when I that's where I come from with all this sort of stuff.
Speaker 1:Like I don't believe we should be building houses to keep us comfortable, because if we're kept comfortable, the time it ruins our immune system and then we all end up sick more often because our bodies can't handle hot temperatures and cold temperatures and rainy weather, because we live inside and, and my other my other thing with it is, again, it comes back to us being humans, like where we need to feel the environment, we need to have fresh air, we need to walk on the ground bare feet, like. So I don't know I'm a bit. I've got some pretty weird ideas when it comes to this.
Speaker 2:No, no, I yeah, I do that kind of stuff, but I I like getting my feet in the grass and doing all that grounding stuff. That's all, that's all good. I I'll pick you up on a thing that you said, the hey, you're just saying that it was, um, if you lived in a cold climate, you'd probably consider it a little bit more yeah not to, you know, throw anyone under the bus, but in australia, like, I hear that heaps like passive house, and again, I'm not a passive house snob.
Speaker 2:Whatever you want to do, anyone can do it, but we we get that common pushback of like well, it's not cold, so we don't need to do that kind of stuff. But we've got the opposite problem in australia. We've got, like we've got heat, so as as much as it does help in the cold, it also does.
Speaker 2:It's just as effective in the heat um, yeah not to say it's not, it's a non-argument, but you know it does help a lot in in the heat to keep that heat out, like in in my house. Now this is a certified passive house plus or hopefully, um, if I've done everything right. But in the mornings like it's toasty and it's beautiful, but even on those hot days I'm pretty confident. I've had like my whole five. I haven't had my whole family in here yet, so we haven't loaded it up completely. But I don't think we're going to need air conditioning. Like when that Western sun hits that side and loads up those rooms. Nothing's coming through. Unless you're standing right at the window, nothing's coming through. There's yeah, unless you're standing right at the window, nothing's coming through. I've got 40 mil wood fiber insulation board and then a 90 mil bat with that air cavity, so it's like the lag time between there it's. It's what I'm trying to say is it's just as effective in in heat.
Speaker 2:So that's why, they're doing it in, in iraq and and in like the middle east passive house is actually gaining traction there for the opposite problem yeah, oh, look, I, I get all that.
Speaker 1:I know how it works. Like you, you obviously build an airtight home. It's a lot more efficient to control temperature and all those types of things. You don't have air leakage and you're building with better materials, so your walls are more insulated and your windows are obviously more insulated and all that type of stuff as well. Um, but, yeah, my, my own person, like these are just my own personal opinions, like I believe in the, like me personally, it's it's harder to warm up in a cold client, so climate, so if you're, um, if your house is more insulated and airtight, it's a lot easier to heat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but for me, when it comes to a hot temperature, personally I would rather have and and we work with quite a like a couple of architects and designers here in brisbane that really focus on, like shading and overhangs and orientation and positioning of windows and hallways to create natural, like, even if there's no breeze outside, like you can make a house circulate just by the way it's positioned, and those types of things, and just what I've learned and seen, um from being involved in those types of projects. That's, that's how I feel. I would rather do it, because the other thing and look, I, I know there's, there's heaps of fantastic builders out there doing incredible things within the passive house space and designs and stuff. Like I'm not saying I'm against it, I just I don't know. It's my quirky ideas that I have on saving the planet and helping the planet.
Speaker 1:Like to me, a passive house takes so much more like it's so much more material. So if you're using so much more material there's, then there's so much more power going in and labor and everything to to build that. So I know they say that a passive house reduces your energy bills and all these types of things. But I don't know, I go off in these crazy, like I'd go down these rabbit holes where I I think, like what about everything else? Like what about everything that's it's taken to produce all those materials, all the labor along the way, all the transport along the way, like all those types of things yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 2:I think even I've taken steps towards um, like moving towards um hemp buildings like that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:So basically, I'm, I don't think I'm ever going to do anything with steel frames. I I'm virtually completely against them. I I know some people want to make the argument, but physics is physics man, they're just no good. So I'm, I throw them out the window pretty much. I I'm all for timber because I know we can always just, you know, plant more trees. The trees there for 20, 30 years creates a forest. We circulated that. That seems to work in my head. That seems logical. Um, it's, it's, it's a great material to work with. You can do a lot with it. The the problem with australia and not considering, like, blowing up the hemp industry.
Speaker 1:That's, that's madness, like I don't understand I think heps, I think hemp's fantastic yeah, I can't believe I can't believe we're not doing more like homework and studies to have more building products that are made of hemp, like yeah, there's, there's some fantastic and and if anyone's listening and they want to learn more about that, go on um facebook.
Speaker 2:There's some really good like hemp building groups. I've even joined them and I put myself out there and I said listen, I'm. I'm in shell harbour um new south wales. I want to try and do some more stuff and I've got I've got a couple of people contacting me like they're interested in doing it.
Speaker 1:So if anyone needs to promote hemp or learn more about it, there's really good facebook groups, yeah, and look when I, when I say, like I'm not completely off the passive housing, like I'm, I'm constantly looking at new products and those types of things, and and when I'm coming back to what I was saying before, like I, I, my genuine opinion is we've just we've got to get more back to basics and so, from what I see, at the moment, a lot of passive houses are taking up an enormous amount of materials which, like I said, adds a lot of transport power to make produce those materials.
Speaker 1:All amount of materials which, like I said, adds a lot of transport power to make produce those materials all those types of things like I don't believe there's enough um being done to use more natural products like rammed earth homes and hemp creep like hemp can be used for so many different things and, like I've seen it, there's people overseas doing incredible things with lightweight construction, hemp creed and hemp insulation and I just I don't know. I think everyone's looking for a quick fix. Yeah, and through looking for a quick fix, we end up just throwing all these things together and yeah, I don't know it really bugs me, like I'm. I'm really putting a lot of time and energy and effort into coming up with my own sort of building system yeah, yeah it's a.
Speaker 2:It's a bit frustrating. I I definitely share the frustration. Um, so the I I started building this home that I'm sitting in two years ago. We're like 90 finished, but sorry, my phone's ringing. Um all good.
Speaker 2:So I started building this two years ago and I I based it basically on a. I didn't want to scare people off, so I based it on a 90 mil frame so everyone can just see it come out of the ground and be like, okay, well, he's just putting 90 mil frame, he's just wrapping it, and really I didn't have to use wood fiber. You could probably use anything. Um, if we were to redo the calculations now, I probably could get rid of the, maybe thicken up the wall a little bit, or I could have done something to maybe even get rid of the board outside, but I didn't want to scare anyone off, so I basing it on that standard construction model.
Speaker 2:That's probably, in my opinion, the best way to start for people to kind of jump on board. So it's not too scary If I just, you know, if builders start thinking, oh, my god, I'm gonna start using hempcrete and like, people are gonna freak out. You know, I mean, it's all about baby steps into in this industry and, I think, with people in general. Um, so that was my rationale, by making this house based on that 90 mil timber frame. I will agree that, um, there's, there is more timber used. I think that's fair to say and, generally speaking, there would be more material used. But even even speaking to like Anthony from Outlier down in Victoria, he's managing to do stuff. Oh, you've already spoken to him, but you can see what he's doing.
Speaker 1:I love what they do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's a legend.
Speaker 1:They're getting passive house. So between Anthony and then you've got David that's doing a lot of his builds. They're coming up with some really great solutions and they are minimizing the product that they're using.
Speaker 1:Yes, some really great solutions and they're really. They are minimizing the product that they're using. Yes, a lot, but um, oh, look, mate, to throw. I think we're doing so many things wrong. Uh, here in australia, I feel our clients are making decisions based on real estate agents telling them that they need four bedrooms, three garages, five bathrooms, 50 living areas and 500 downlights.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've recently drawn and if my clients are listening to this, I love them. You know they're all good people, but they are big houses and I say this during the concept meetings I have to say like, listen, this is a big house what you're drawing here. I know you want to maximize that FSR, but it's a big house Like I'm doing 300 square meter houses like regularly. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And mate, we are too Like. We've currently got a couple of houses that are 400 and 500 square meters.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's wild.
Speaker 1:Like over the next, and look to be fair, a couple of those are multi-generational. There's mum, dad, kids and two lots of grandparents.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, yeah, that's fair enough.
Speaker 1:Well, it's a little bit okay. It's not fully okay.
Speaker 2:It's not fully okay, but you know you could have the counter argument of like yeah, but then they could build three houses and use even more resources.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, generally speaking, you've you gotta let some stuff slide. I think, um, but I I just think there's two. Look, it's like every argument in the world like we, we can't have it both ways. Like, so, yes, like people keep banging on about this sustainability, I like, like, personally, I believe sustainability is the biggest con that the world will ever see. All this renewable energy, it's. There's going to be some really big stuff coming out over the next couple of years. I think, because the anyway, that's another podcast but if we really wanted to be actually more sustainable, we should be building far smaller homes. Um, like what happened to? Like, because if you have a smaller home, you can have more yard, and if you have more yard, kids can go outside, they can walk around bare feet, they can kick the soccer ball around the afternoon, they can go back to being children. To me, isn't that a more healthy?
Speaker 2:sustainable life. Yeah, I can speak on that. Very recently I had an experience. So we had to move out of our rental because this house, it's just it's not ready yet. We're pretty close to getting in, but it's not ready yet. So my parents went overseas and we just ducked into their place for a couple of months because they weren't back. And I'm going back to my childhood home of like I don't know man, like 150 square meters, maybe three bedroom, like an old Masterton, like it's. It's nothing, it's nothing amazing. But you know, I live there. I'm pretty comfortable, big backyard and the block's only like 550 square meters and I'm sitting there. I've got three kids. We're sitting outside. It's a sunny day, I'm under the patio, like I used to sit, and I'm watching my kids play and I'm going. I said to my wife I go, we built the biggest house that we could have and look at us, it's taken, it's out, it's over budget, it's um, it's way too big for what we need and now we don't have a we don't.
Speaker 1:So what? So what? Why? Why did you do that? What made you build a big?
Speaker 2:house, just like what everyone else does. It, dwayne, it's the. It's the stupidity of trying to. I've got behind me. I've got a butler's pantry. I don't have a butler, you know. I mean, I'm not a butler. I can't call my wife a butler, she'll kill me. It's why do I have a butler's pantry like that? That could have just been a row of joinery. But again, the houses that I'm drawing, that's standard man, like around here, wulungong area, illawarra butler's pantries are like. You know, for a lot of people that don't have butlers, there's a lot of butler's pantries.
Speaker 1:It's really bizarre yeah, it's crazy, mate, like I just think the we've all really lost touch um and the reality is like everyone's complaining that mum and dad are both working now massive hours, life's life hectic, we don't get time with our kids, and yet most of that is driven by us having houses that are too like, far too big, that are wasting resources, and the reason we've got to work so much is to pay the bills to have the big house exactly which takes us away from spending time with our family yeah, so we're pretty traditional in my household.
Speaker 2:So my wife is actually staying home for the last seven years looking after the kids. It's, in my opinion, each to their own if you want to drop them off at daycare. Whatever you're going to do, make it work to her. But in my place's looking up to kids because we believe that she's the best person to do so and so far it's working. They're really good, well-bathed kids. But financially it's a struggle because there's a lot of pressure on me to.
Speaker 2:You know, come up with the money while I'm building a bloody house like it's a mission you know. So, um, I completely agree with what you're saying. It's if we built a smaller house, it would have been done sooner for cheaper. We could have just got on with our lives and you know everyone like instagram's terrible for this mate.
Speaker 1:Everyone wants bigger is better, like everyone thinks it. Oh, look at what they've got. Oh, I need to have that. Like who gives a fuck if you've got three living rooms or five bathrooms or three garages?
Speaker 2:I know I feel guilty now that I've got two garages or two living areas, but the last house that we built so I've actually only built previously and, and that one there was, I'm embarrassed of it like it's that's three living areas, a balcony that I never sat on, absolutely useless. And I've learned a lot of lessons throughout all these homes. Um, then, especially building my home, like I I don't know how much I've shared with you, but I've actually, like I've pretty much only had a plumber, a sparky, a plasterer, so there hasn't been much input externally from this house. I've done a lot of it myself. Um, and I've learned a lot, and, and the lessons that I take away is that you know, being this close to almost finished it's, you don't really need a big house like this.
Speaker 2:If you, just like I, always get clients, we will I'll try and talk them out of doing a big house. Sometimes it's like pushing shit uphill. Other times they listen, but then when that initial quote comes back and it's, I know it's overpriced, I know it's going to be over budget because, like I work off about four grand a square meter. I don't know what you do up in brisbane, but around here, yeah, we don't.
Speaker 1:We avoid square meter right so do I.
Speaker 2:But as a designer I need something. Do you know what I mean? And then at least while I'm doing the lines, and then I can ring up the builder and we can, we can work through it together. But I need, I need something to go by. So I've looking at other houses that I've done to those specs. I just kind of gauge that out so do you go?
Speaker 2:do you go back to completed projects and see what the final cost is and then divide it by the square meters and say oh well, that one, there was 4200, that one, there was 5600 roughly speaking, it's, it's a super lame way to do it um but yeah, but it's better, it's, it's.
Speaker 1:It's better than getting.
Speaker 2:Getting the data from the completed projects is the first step in the right direction yeah, exactly yeah, so that it does help and at least I know, like when I'm, when I'm playing with the 3d model, I'm doing like ground floor plans, um, what I do is I usually set up a zone in my program that's that square meters, and then I can manipulate that to fit within that box and then I know at least this will cost roughly X amount. Let's talk to the builder Um which, so that that that very expensive lesson for me to learn. I never used to do that and I could tell you about some jobs that just went to absolute shit, um, unfortunately, um. So there's lessons learned there. But yeah, what I was getting back to is just making designing um, not going for the biggest house you can do, but just like designing a slightly smaller home and then taking that extra budget or headway and improving the building, both lifestyle and um, especially comfort, because I always think if you, if you address comfort, if occupant comfort is like the number one priority typically, that solves all the other problems, like that'll you end up with a more durable house, a better well-built house, um, it's, it's a lot more comfortable it that. That's my main kind of um driving point. I really try and get that home with the clients. But then you know there are those clients that I've dealt with that they just like stone benchtops and stuff like that, and it's this balancing game.
Speaker 2:I've only ever had one client and unfortunately she had to pull the pin because of some private issues. But she was actually a listener of Amelia and I kind of picked up on it. Because we're talking and talking, I go, I bet you this chick she must listen to Amelia, because the stuff that she's saying is really like too good to be true, like calm down, you know. And I asked her I go, do you listen to podcasts called Get it Right? She was like, oh yeah, amelia, lee, blah, blah. She knew all the podcasts, this and that, because I was going to send her something about, um, kitchen sinks in on the benchtops.
Speaker 2:You were talking about it and um, I know amelia's got a strong opinion of that and she has already. I've heard it, I already know all this, that blah blah and um, she's probably the only client that was willing to like really commit to occupant comfort, because I had explained to her that it'll, it'll fix everything else, like everything that's just going to fall into place. The only question from there um is whether you want to go down a sustainable path. So if they do want to go down a sustainable path, in my opinion, currently in this climate, it probably will cost a bit more just because we don't have the again, there's no, I can't just go bunnings and get some hemp block or stuff like that, so there's none of that stuff readily available.
Speaker 1:It's getting better yeah, um, you're, um, you're. You've reached out, I think, to a couple of live life build builders down your way, haven't you?
Speaker 2:I have, yeah, yeah, process yeah, I work with um two or three of them. We're actually having dinner tonight. All right, yeah, we're all going to catch up down at um, down at the golf club, for a schnitzel, but, um, yeah, that's, that's really helped. So I've, I don't work for builders now that don't pay, to quote. At the very minimum, they have to have some skin in the game.
Speaker 1:So they paid as a consultant, mate, we're not. We're not charging a quote. We're getting paid as a consultant that's ideal.
Speaker 2:Obviously, the pack process guys, they're all switched on and, um, they've got that, but as a minimum, like I've got a project now that, um, actually, no, that one's done the only way to do it properly is mate with live life builds back process sponsored.
Speaker 1:No, no, mate it. It is like the pay to the consultant it's. It's an absolute game changer. We got hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of builders all across australia. New zealand even got one in the states oh, really that's. Like it's. It's definitely changing the way the industry operates. But yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2:I think it works well. The I'm working with Ryan now from locks back through one a renovation and that's actually a good example how just some some components fell apart, but then once a builder came in with the back process, it seems to be running a lot smoother now. Um, we had two or three builders that were just armand and aaron pretty much, and unfortunately it fell through a number of times so ryan seems to have a good bearing on it now.
Speaker 1:He's obviously got some good systems behind him, so so, mate you, you had a few questions you wanted to um get through, so I'm I'm happy to jump into them, because I I'm happy to put our opinions out there, yeah yeah, um, the, the main one was I don't know if you've heard about it, but the, the federal government is um proposing 1.2 million houses in in five years and um, I'm I'm a bit of a skeptic on it.
Speaker 2:I I think even once you run the numbers, it's it's virtually impossible. But yeah, I'm happy to be proven wrong oh look, I.
Speaker 1:I think it's completely impossible to get um. They might achieve it, but they'll be your record fucking shit boxes that are built to last 15 years yeah they um, like you you reckon it can be done?
Speaker 2:I don't even think it can be done. I don't even think they'll fit. I don't even. I don't even think they'll hit half a million. I, even if they're shit, I don't even think it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I don't know, like you gotta, there's a couple of like the, the better volume builders that have have geared up and are smashing out some pretty good numbers. But my problem with all that, like they don't. They don't understand our industry. So when they come up with all these figures, yeah they.
Speaker 1:They have no idea how a building business operates. They have no idea on the true cost. Like everyone just keeps talking about the cost of building and yet no one's talking about. Like I bang on about all the time. Like expectations, like expectations are rising far quicker than what the cost of building are, um, and yeah, they just come out with these figures and say, oh, we're going to build this many houses in this amount of time. Like with no consideration into supply chains and quality of building and the businesses that operate in the industry and how many people are going to go bankrupt because they're just going to take on more work and all those types of things yeah it's just a recipe for disaster yeah, and I don't want to be negative about it like it would be great if they could do it, but yeah, it's just impossible.
Speaker 2:I can't see it happening, man, it's, it's going to be a disaster yeah, oh, it will be.
Speaker 1:No doubt it'll be an absolute disaster. They'll they'll come out with some scheme that'll give somebody some sort of compensation or or a lot. They did with the first homeowners grant and the grants through covid, like we all know, how many businesses, traders and builders went broke yeah, it didn't help at all.
Speaker 2:I thought, when they were releasing that 25 000 bucks or whatever it was, I thought, oh man, this is going to put so much pressure on people and it did. It broke it, did you still?
Speaker 1:got builders and tradies now that are playing catch up, the ones that have managed to scrape through and haven't gone bankrupt, because it just put all that added pressure on. And then obviously all the price increases went through the roof and you had all these clowns signing contracts that weren't running profitable businesses anyway, signing contracts for, like even some of the big players. But he got caught out, yeah, with the cost increases and those types of things.
Speaker 2:But well, I think. I think, if they're gonna do it again like I, I've done a house with sips before, so I designed a sips house again. I know it's. You know, eps, it's not. It's not great for the environment. It's a petrochemical product. But, um yeah, sips, I don't.
Speaker 1:I can't see them doing it any other way without sips mate um, pre-fabricated and transportable buildings are the way of the future.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just so hard to sell, isn't it? When I, when I tell someone to look at SIPs, it's like you know I've just told them that we didn't land on the moon or something. It's like you know, calm down, it's just the normal building system.
Speaker 1:But again I don't believe, like a lot of the ones doing it at the moment, I don't agree with the materials they're using. I think they're just causing more harm to the environment than they are good. But I I think that is a solution like europe look how good europe and china I know um, like they have some incredible timber products that are just they smash out the buildings and and even high-rise buildings and stuff.
Speaker 2:So yeah, people think china's this, china's killing it. Man they're. You know. I actually saw a um a product, a chinese hrv, with integrated air conditioning.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Which I know there's people out there that don't like mixing those two systems, for good reason as well, but I just thought that I go far out. That's actually you know. At least they're thinking about it, but China's killing it. The sips that I done on that house were actually from China and unfortunately again, I don't think we're doing anything like that full scale.
Speaker 1:I think there's some really good solutions that'll come out in the near future for pre-fabricated homes. We're definitely working on something behind the scenes in that space, well tying a few things together that we believe in pretty strongly. But I know you're really big on. You've sent me a couple of messages through instagram or shared some stories with me on houses that are getting demolished and stuff, and oh, bro, remember that one.
Speaker 2:I sent you this it looked like what? Three years old and I'm like yeah, can we at least take the, the doors off, it's like. Can we do something to? And this this record just came in and just chomp, chomp, chomp and you're like, what are we doing? Like, even around where I'm living I'm sure it's the same where you are too there's houses that are like they were only built like what? 10 years ago.
Speaker 1:They're gone yeah, I drove past one the other day.
Speaker 2:That's not that old and that was like a, a double brick house, even even. That's another crazy thing. I'm seeing people building double brick now and I'm just like you know, what is it? Western australia or something like. It's really the industry's wild man. It's such a well this is the thing.
Speaker 1:Like they bring these numbers out, they want to build 1.2 million homes or whatever it is like, and and this is my big biggest problem, mate like everyone, bangs on about sustainability and helping the planet. Yeah, and yet we are. We have volume builders building tens of thousands of homes a year that are designed to last 15 to 30 years it's wild so how the hell is that sustainable when in 15 to 30 years those houses are going to be put on a truck and tipped in a hole in the ground and buried?
Speaker 2:I know, and then the I think the average australian is living in their home for like seven and a half years and they just, yeah, hop on which like it's pathetic, like at the end of that.
Speaker 1:It's absolutely pathetic, like if, if, truly if, the government and homeowners really wanted to help this planet out, we would be reducing the size of the buildings we're building. We'd be using products that are genuinely sustainably sourced and 100 recyclable at their end. Use like it's, it's, it's not.
Speaker 2:It's not rocket science no, it's not, it's the yeah, I know, just getting people to change. It's so, like I, I adopted passive house, well, like five years ago and and people thought I was pretty wild, you know, I mean like people thought it was pretty crazy. And I I remember telling my friend you know that friend, I was telling you about that move to brisbane. I love him, I love him like a brother and I remember him like early on I was just like, oh, you know, we're doing this, doing that.
Speaker 2:Him and his boss, old school builders, you know they thought it was pretty different, but michael, he's, he was, he's coming around. So you know, you can tell there's something there. And then a couple of months ago he went and done his passive house course after five years and he's building his own house in brisbane and it's going to be a quote-unquote high-performing home. Um, so it came. It came around full circle like the penny dropped and, speaking to local builders around here, I remember saying to a couple of them, like what you're doing now, in in 10 years you're you're not going to be able to do that or no one's going to want it yeah that's what's going to happen, and yeah it's.
Speaker 2:It's really bizarre like there are certain things, like I suppose certain states are cutting gas to like new buildings. That's always a good thing. I think gases are wrought yeah, especially in australia um, and there are. There are steps to improve the system, but, god, it could be so much better if we all just so what do you think of the new um the new seven stars?
Speaker 2:oh, um, well, my, my passive house plus got a 7.4 on the old system, so it might be an 8 now, I don't know. And to me that's just crazy, like that doesn't make sense. Do you know what I mean? And he tried to get it up there and it passes this like good level of Passive House and to me that just shows an obvious kind of bias there, like the reason why again, I'm not a Passive House snob, but you've got to give them credit, because it's just a bunch of nerds just working on a spreadsheet. They don't care about politics or nothing, whereas with nadher's and bassett's you can't trust that shit they're. It's politically driven that you can. You know I have no evidence to back this up, but I'll I'll put this house on it that there's some type of lobbying going on from from developers, from um who else who else would be in their building associations? Maybe from volume builders. They want to keep it down to a low standard. It's obvious they want to 100 percent yeah 100 percent.
Speaker 1:Thank you for agreeing with me, because I think, um, I think it's, it's, it's super obvious and well, mate, if you've had to, if you've had to go to a passive house plus to get a 7.4, how the hell uh is a volume builder going to achieve a seven star rating?
Speaker 2:yeah, exactly right. And and my, my um energy assessor that does nato's, because I personally don't do them, I'll just get someone else to do it because, again, I think they're, they're virtually a useless tool. Um, they're box tick he exactly 100 he he done?
Speaker 2:um, what did he do? He done a between the old system and the new system. So obviously you're just trying to satisfy an algorithm pretty much. Um, he ran the same house through and it wasn't. It was like the algorithm just made it pop up, but it was virtually the same house, like nothing really changed. You know what?
Speaker 2:I mean yeah, it should have still been a six, if that makes sense. Um, so when I hear stuff like that, I'm going. Well, I know there's, there's people in the, the natto's community I think they've even got someone in that is passive house train trying to he. I feel sorry for whoever that is, because that person's pushing shit uphill, um, and trying to get through all the bureaucracy. But yeah, I just think it's wild man. I I think it's got a political bias, whereas I know passive house they're just a bunch of nerds that just want to. These are the rules of physics. You cannot change them, because that's just how the universe, the universe and there's other.
Speaker 1:There's other things out there, like um. I don't know the holes in the ins and outs of it, but like you got the um is the powerhouse app as well, like they do the energy ratings and stuff like there. There's companies out there that are doing. We try and talk all of our clients into spending some proper money and getting an actual, proper assessment done. Yes, that's true.
Speaker 1:The standard tick and flick boxing. That model's been broken. It doesn't matter what rating they're trying to get, whether it's the old rating or the new seven stars that whole system is completely broken.
Speaker 2:Well, everyone around here they're all freaking out about using double glazed windows, but I got ahead of the curve years ago like that's, that's standard. My, we're developing and, um, just for my, my company, I'm developing like a david bell kind of standard construction package that we use. Yeah, um, and we're not doing anything crazy if, if anyone's listening at home and they just want to make their house better, or a builder wants to do better, the insulation should be installed correctly anyway. So just do it properly, watch the guy that does it or do it yourself, and just don't leave any gaps. That's basically it. Thermal bridging. In my opinion, it's great if you can get rid of it.
Speaker 1:Try and substitute for timber If you can't try your best and just live with it, but nine times out of ten should be fine. Um, and if you can just glaze, work on your air tightness, if you can get around. It's a double glazing mate like double glazing, like my. My problem with all this double and triple glazing stuff is it doesn't. You can't just have a house and throw double glazing everywhere like it might work in some areas but like I know up here, like we've done houses up here, like and you might, when you do a proper assessment, single glazing might actually work on one wall of the house or two walls of the house and then the other walls of the house, depending on overhangs and orientation, all those types of things they may need double glazing.
Speaker 2:So so I'm more of like I'm personally more just double glaze everywhere. But I'm only saying that because I know that I can get UPVC windows virtually at the same cost these days, like they're coming down so much in my area, like I can get them from Sydney pretty cost effectively. So picking and choosing glazing, I suppose man, I'm not sure. I think that air gap, like there's a lot of physics going on between calculating that air gap and having two panes of glass and certain thicknesses. So I think personally I would just double glaze everywhere. Triple in australia is like it's obviously the ducks nuts, but in in most climates in australia it's probably not necessary. And you have to remember that we live in a country where it is it's so easy to build a high-performing home or a better build or whatever you want to label it as yeah because we got such a forgiving climate?
Speaker 1:yeah, because we um, I forget when it was 2012, 2014 or something like we. We had a client that we'd been working with for um a long time four or five years when the first thing the client said when they come to us is we want to win every award we can for a sustainable, energy efficient home yeah right, and so there were two doctors.
Speaker 1:They had done like they. They came to us with mountains of paperwork and products that they wanted to use. So the designer designed the home and look, thinking back of it, now it was. It was quite bad. It was a huge. I think it was 640 square meters for two houses and four cats two people in four cats.
Speaker 1:But um, anyway, long story short, they had researched around the world. They'd found all these windows, insulation, claddings, wall wraps, like you name it, and so the designer had gone ahead and listed all these products and done all the sections through the walls and showed all the cavity battens and all this. And this is back. I'm like, yeah, I'm talking 10, 12 years ago, before I even started understanding all this wraps and cavity battens and things. Anyway, at the time I, um, I knew a bloke quite well he's actually retired now, doesn't do it anymore, but he was probably, well, one of the only ones up here in brisbane that was doing proper modeling. But he was probably, well, one of the only ones up here in brisbane that was doing proper modeling, but he was doing it on commercial and high-rise. Anyway, I talked these people into spending some money with him and doing proper modeling on the home and look, I'm not up to speed with what the software was or how it works, whatever, but basically it ended up dragging out over a few months.
Speaker 1:We had to change a lot of sections and they put it in this program and it modeled the home over a two-year period and basically come back and said, hey, you need to throw 90 percent of all that shit that you've researched and found out in the bin because, number one, it doesn't work for this climate.
Speaker 1:And basically they come back with all this feedback and said you actually need to shorten the overhang on that side of the house. Shorten the overhang on that side of the house, increase the overhang on that side of the house. It had a big, clear story sort of void through the center of the house that was for a lift and a stairwell. It was three stories high and we ended up putting electric operated, operable louvers in the top of that and we ended up creating because this guy had come from high rising commercial stuff like he we basically designed a mechanical ventilation system and this the window, like the house, had temperature system, um sensors in it and the house even the temperature out so because nine times out of ten you'll find when the house is built.
Speaker 1:You would know all this. Like when a house is built really well and it like, if it traps temperature in, it can actually get too warm inside and can actually be cooler outside and vice versa, like sometimes in winter, um, you want to get, you want to bring some warm air into the house, to like warm air in, cool air out, and those types of things and we ended up he, he designed this system that it naturally leveled the temperature out yeah, but naturally not not a hrv or anything, but just measuring the inside and outside and mixing, yeah, and then when the house got to a level temperature.
Speaker 1:If it was in summer and the level temperature was still too warm, the system would automatically turn the system off, shut the windows and turn the air con on. And then in winter, same deal if it. If the house the the natural level temperature was still too cold, same deal it would shut the windows up and turn the heater on yeah, okay, and that's a lot of automation in that it was hugely automated. It was a lot of cost, but we ended up winning master builders sustainable house of the year award for that home.
Speaker 1:But and that's sort of where my taste for this sort of stuff started, because like that it was crazy, mate. These people wanted to do I forget the name it now they wanted to draw the cores down in the earth bloody 180, 200 meters and, um, what is it?
Speaker 2:thermal oh yeah, heaps of people want to do, even around here they want to do geothermal and yeah, geothermal, that's it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just it's cool, I like it, but it's it's super unnecessary where we live. I think maybe a lot of people have it in the highlands where I live. Um, it's common up there but it's because they got cold houses I was doing a house project in and they wanted geothermal and I said, listen, the way that we're designing the house it's. It's kind of unnecessary, it's redundant. Like you got a sixty thousand dollar bill for a geothermal system yeah, you don't need it like it's and that was the thing like.
Speaker 1:basically by the time we've, like I said it, ended up adding six or eight months to the project because there was all this backwards and forwards with all this modeling, but in in the end we threw 90% of the products these clients wanted out the window. This company proved to them that they didn't need any of it. We solved a lot of their problems that they're trying to do with this ventilation system and automating the windows and stuff, and then we basically ended up with a good building wrap, a cavity button and good insulation and good cladding, a simpler approach basically solved the problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's interesting when that happens I, even I, I like I'm guilty of it too I thought like, oh, you know, passive house, I've got to go really crazy and I started drawing 100 mil xps under the slab and this and that I'm like, once you, once you use the phpp and you can be like, okay, well, you can value engineer and say, well, you don't need a hundred mil, cause that's, that's a way, that's a waste of time. Um, I went with 50 mil, um the I originally had 60, um a 60 mil wood fiber board on the outside of my house. I went to a 40 because once you do the modeling, it's, it's kind of like this um, what is it? It's like a point of no return. I don't know the term for it, but it just the more the thicker it got, the lesser did, basically.
Speaker 2:So I found that sweet spot of 40 and I'm like, oh well, that that gets me to where I want to go. So let's just leave it at that. I think that there's a lot of value in using services like that and tools like that, the, the tool to do that, I don't know man, personally, I'd I'd stick to the unbiased, non-politically driven tools yeah and I'm just listening to the nerds and the geeks that don't care about the what the politicians say, basically yeah, no, I agree, mate.
Speaker 1:You need to pay money and work with good quality consultants that can do all the testing properly and not just rely on ticking boxes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree definitely um.
Speaker 1:So, mate, what's what's david bell like? What's the plan today bell? So you're aiming at high performance homes yeah, um.
Speaker 2:So I, I just want to do better than standard. I don't I. I know people call them high performance homes. They're just a. It's kind of just the house that's built how it's meant to be built, really, um, but anything better than standard, those things that I listed before, mainly as long as we got like hrv we're working on our air tightness and um, the glazing's good, um, really that that gets you 80, 90 of the way there. Um, the things that I find challenging is like getting people to, like, you know, reconsider fireplaces and and stuff like that. Like really romantic things, um the, the butler's pantry, the. Do you really need a massive ensuite that's just as big as the bathroom, or can we? Can we not have an ensuite, or can we? You know those conversations I'm finding finding it hard at the moment but.
Speaker 2:I think I'm getting there.
Speaker 1:I think it's just more about, um, you know, picking the right person to work with as well so how are so, how are you maintaining that standard, like that's your standard too, as a building designer? But how are you doing site checks or weekly meetings with your clients? Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:So I've got a five-step program. The first is like design, brief feasibility We'll go through basically what they want to do and if they can do it. Step two is all concept stuff. So that's all the fun stuff where we're drafting 3D models, chatting with builders, consultants. Three is we call it a DA I don't know what you call it in like going to council or gaining approval, so that's pretty boring. That doesn't really involve anyone but myself.
Speaker 2:And then again we jump in with the construction stuff. Stage four, where that's where we'll get all the information we got put it on the plans. If it's the floor system, I model that in, it's all basically built before. We built it in 3D, with the builder providing feedback and costing as we go, kind of tied into your philosophy. And then the stage five that's there to kind of represent the client and that's where we do our site meetings and I make myself available just to, because people don't know what they're looking at. Man, you know some the builders that I recommend to people I've got like five builders Like these are the people that I think are good for you.
Speaker 2:They pick it and interview them. I encourage that you don't have to worry too much, because those guys are good and I think it's good that I've aligned myself with like-minded people. So we work with like-minded people. If you're a designer and you're just kind of throwing your hat out in the ring, you're going to get everything, man. Everything's going to come in, like you're going to get first-time buyers to people that it's their third house and that's okay. First-time buyers need houses too, but that's where you find typically the most undecisiveness, the most problems, um, throughout the process, whereas the people that are like, I would argue, 38 onwards 40 and I've had some kids it might be their third house or second house or something it's pretty.
Speaker 1:It's the most valuable thing in business, isn't it figuring out who your ideal client is exactly, and I don't want to shit on people and say like young people don't know what they're talking about.
Speaker 2:But you know, when I was young I didn't know what I was talking about. So I'm happy saying that it's just, it is what it is. Um, it's it's hard and that that those people and a lot of people in general, when you and me start talking and we're on a site meeting and you know they don't know that, um, what would be an example like the frames are a bit out or dodgy or something like that, I'd be like oh, you know, I'll have a chat and say like maybe we can do this, this and that, and that's just for that kind of reassurance for the client pretty much yeah so there is that as well.
Speaker 2:But if the builder is more than capable and the client has an understanding, I can adapt my service to be like well, if you just want me to rock up once a month or something or maybe help problem solve if there's an issue, that's. That's fine too. I don't have to have my nose in everything, but I generally go, because I'm a bit of a nerd and I like to see progress as well oh, mate, I think it's such a powerful thing when you um, when designers and architects are interacting with the build team once the project starts, like having regular meetings and just um it's the best well, there's just.
Speaker 1:There's so many things. It doesn't matter how detailed your drawings are, there are so many things that come up on site. Um, it could be the way the stack work's got to be worked for a bathroom above and it affects the ceiling heights or like who knows. But yeah, when you have those regular site meetings, like I know me, going to design meetings has made me a lot better builder yeah and I know that the designers and architects coming to our sites and understanding how we build things is making them better.
Speaker 2:Designers and architects, because we're working, we're collaborating, we're helping each other out it's hard when, um, like architects, they like you know you see plans, come and go, people send your plans here and there, whatever. Um, you see some plans and you're like like that that's going to be a pretty complicated way to do something. Like no one's really no one's really thought that through. Do you know what I mean? Whereas, like, because I've got, I've had this experience, I've always been pretty handy. I just the other week I was helping someone stand frames a builder, a mate of mine.
Speaker 2:I went there for like two, three days yeah um, and we'll stand in frames and I, I love that kind of stuff and it's um, it's good to know like it's good to have that practical experience, man, because I know, as I'm designing, like everything is 3d modeled but when I place the beam somewhere, I know like that's going to be the biggest pain in the ass, because yeah it was a pain in the ass for me and there's a roll-on effect if something is a pain in the ass, it's just going to be a variation somewhere.
Speaker 2:So if you can kind of stop that in its tracks or catch it early, yeah um, oh, it's going to save so much hassle, man especially what's your?
Speaker 1:um, we'll have to start wrapping it up like what's your. I think we pretty much got through all your your topics here. You wanted to have you. Do you want to check there your list of questions?
Speaker 2:oh yeah, we don't. I don't think we have to go on the building card of australia. I think you and I can just have a blanket, a blanket statement of saying that it's cooked and we'll just move on from well, mate, one thing I will say I'm a huge advocate for him um the tools app like.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you've seen it but, I'm telling everybody to get on board with the tools app. It is easy to understand. Check it out, mate oh, that's that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Actually it's called they kind of picturize the yeah, yes, that is. It's freaking awesome.
Speaker 1:I got my whole, like I got all my lead carpenters, my supervisor on it. I'm on it.
Speaker 2:Those guys- it's so funny that those guys are doing what the government should have done. It's it's really crazy, but good on them.
Speaker 1:They're doing they're doing the god's work, I reckon yeah, we've got jerry coming on the podcast in a couple of weeks time, so I'm really looking forward to that they're doing really good stuff.
Speaker 2:I actually um, I should subscribe to that. When I, when I ramp up the business back after this house, I'm just gonna finish this bloody house. Man, you're yeah. I say to my mates all the time like I was. You know, the guys that go to dinner with the builders. Being a builder it's your job is like it's psycho. Do you know know what I mean? Like it's crazy. Well, yeah, to take someone else's money and to try and make that last through, I can't even put into words, like after, this is my own money, what I'm playing with here To do it with someone else's, I'd bloody, I'd be in panic attack.
Speaker 1:You'd have to be Like mate, that's what I'm doing. What I'm doing, done it like. Honestly. People do not like you. You can't explain. It doesn't matter how many times, how much you try and tell someone how what's involved, how much time it takes, how stressful it is how many things you gotta yeah, how many times you, how much you gotta organize, how much responsibility you have, like they don't get it like it's a mission.
Speaker 2:It's a yeah, you have to be a brave person, I think mate you um.
Speaker 1:Before we started recording today, you mentioned you wanted to discuss your, your ideal home.
Speaker 2:Tell us what your ideal home is oh, the, the building, um, I would probably. I'm leaning towards, oh geez, it would probably be like a timber framed house, more like traditional framed with a hemp core, and then that would be like a lime render on the inside or the outside, or I would if we're not talking about like embodied energy I'd probably go like a clt with like a wood fiber on the outside. That would be to me, the ultimate, because then, and and suspended floor system, no concrete, um, some type of suspended floor where you can get underneath, you can seal your penetrations. Good, that, that to me is like the gold standard. If I had to, if I had to pick well, I brought that up before because I was just curious to what to see what you would say. I feel like it might be similar, I don't know it.
Speaker 1:I think it is fairly similar. But, mate, I'm I'm gonna throw something out there now and everyone's gonna think I'm an absolute fucking weirdo. But the deeper I dig on my own personal journey to figure out what sustainability is and what I need to be delivering and building. Um, like I'm not a um, I don't even know the word for it, but I'm not a religious person. I've never been church, um, all that type of thing. But I am going down this track path at the moment that I believe every single thing on this planet is here for a reason, like there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that every animal, every living thing, every tree has been designed and put here for a reason. And timber is here to be built, used to build things yeah, and timber's the best.
Speaker 2:That is the most sustainable material yeah, as it currently stands, it is like anything that grows out of the ground in a plant form, in my opinion hemp.
Speaker 1:It grows in the ground. It filters the air while it's growing yeah, I know it it, it filters us, like it improves the condition of the soil like yeah and then we cut it down, we use it.
Speaker 1:Yes, people are going to argue like not, a lot of the log goes to timber and a lot of it goes to pulp and sawdust and all that sort of thing, but that's its purpose, like trees were. Anyway, I am doing a lot of work on that at the moment because I want to know more about it. But my ideal housemate is pretty similar to yours, like, and so I've talked about a little bit on the podcast, like one of our purposes of buying our farm is because I want to demonstrate to people. So like we're very close to getting a DA at the moment.
Speaker 1:Um, we're getting an approval for a eco-tourism resort um it's only getting classes resort because it's going to have up to 16 dwellings on it, but basically those small.
Speaker 1:I'm, my wife and I are working with like a few different designers and architects because I want to demonstrate to people that smaller is better yeah that less is more and we need to disconnect, to reconnect, and so every single one of those cabins is going to be differently, differently designed, but they're going to be small. They're going to be able to sleep up to six people. They're going to be multi-purpose. They're going to be small. They're going to be able to sleep up to six people. They're going to be multi-purpose. They're going to be like you said, they're going to be up off the ground. We're going to use a heap of recycled materials. And, yeah, that's my ideal building, like the place where you can feel comfortable, a place where you can touch and feel natural products and a place where you can look around what you're living in and know that at its end life, it can be used again yeah, exactly, or at the very least go into the ground just as it came out that's, that's why you know hemp and lime.
Speaker 2:They're just, they're god's gift in building materials. I even um, I don't know why I've. I was actually looking into why brickies don't use lime mortar anymore. I know they put lime in it, but it's not solely lime. They obviously had cement and I think it was um. The capacity of the mortar or the strength of it can only go to like two or three stories, I think mate.
Speaker 1:They used to look, they used to build chimneys, friggin 100 foot high just like yeah right, I'm curious.
Speaker 2:I'd love to know why I should probably should ask some brickies.
Speaker 1:There's. I can't remember his name Shay what was that guy we were trying to get on the podcast from Adelaide. There's a guy on Adelaide that just I love him. He does these random posts and he just whinges about terribly designed buildings and he does lots of posts on old buildings and he talks a lot about bricks and lime yeah, right mortar and why we don't use it yeah, okay, I'll check you out but, mate, look, I really appreciate your time um and jumping on and, yeah, let's keep the conversation going through instagram.
Speaker 2:No worries, I tried to get up there, man, I yeah, I've got three kids so I can't step out. I really wanted to check out the shed, so that's all, good mate, we'll have to go around too yeah, one day I'll um, I'll get up there and visit my mate in brisbane and I'll catch up with you yeah, no, for sure, mate.
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Speaker 1:life, then head over to live like buildcom forward slash elevate to get started everything discussed during the level up podcast with me, duane pierce, is based solely on my own personal experiences and those experiences of my guests. The information, opinions and recommendations presented in this podcast are for general information only, and any reliance on the information provided in this podcast is done at your own risk. We recommend that you obtain your own professional advice in respect to the topics discussed during this podcast.