The "Level Up" with Duayne Pearce Podcast
I take on the role of an authoritative voice that fearlessly communicates truths drawn directly from my lived experiences. With a genuine sense of ownership, my insights are free from any hidden agendas – they truly belong to the audience. My stories and journey add remarkable value, the key now lies in harnessing its power effectively to help others.
My purpose is to create a new residential building industry. My mission is to inspire unshakable self-confidence in my colleagues in the industry, empowering them to orchestrate prosperous, enduring, and lucrative businesses that bring exceptional projects to fruition for our clients.
My goal is to foster a deeper comprehension among clients about the identity and functions of builders, redefining their perceptions.
The "Level Up" with Duayne Pearce Podcast
I’m prepared to cop SHIT, in order to create a new building INDUSTRY.
GET YOUR TICKETS TO THE LEVEL UP EXPERIENCE HERE - https://duaynepearce.com/events/
#131 Breaking barriers in the construction industry is at the forefront of our discussion. Claire shares her journey from growing up surrounded by construction to running her own successful business.
Check out Duayne's other projects here...
Live Life Build
livelifebuild.com
D Pearce Constructions
dpearceconstructions.com.au
QuoteEaze
quoteeaze.com/Free-Offer.html
GET YOUR TICKETS TO THE LEVEL UP EXPERIENCE HERE - https://duaynepearce.com/events/
it shouldn't matter who we are, where we come from, who we love, who we live with like that should make no difference. If you want to do the thing that you enjoy doing, just do it g'day guys.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to another cracking episode of level up. Australia's number one construction podcast and voted in 2024 in the top 25 percent of our category worldwide, so we are absolutely pumped about that. We've got a cracking podcast coming to you today. Um, we have claire from axiom axiom axiom, axiom axom.
Speaker 2:Axiom Axiom Construction group. So I'm really looking forward to this chat. I love getting females on the podcast and spreading the word. I'm a big advocate for getting more females in the construction industry, but also supporting them and, I guess, just talking about some of the challenges they face. But Claire is just not any ordinary female. That's in our industry. She's run sole trading businesses. She's started multiple successful construction companies. She's consulted to failing construction companies to make them profitable again. She also has a diploma in interior design. She's earned a certificate in building and construction and attained her low-rise building license. But you also have won multiple awards and you sit on the board of some of the associations to do with helping women in the industry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, someone's done their homework.
Speaker 2:You have a lot going on, so massive welcome and thanks for reaching out. I guess to get us started, Claire, Claire reached out to us on Instagram and we started having a bit of a chat through there. But what made you reach out?
Speaker 1:I have been listening to your podcast for quite some time and a lot of what you say and speak about with your guests my husband and I talk about on a frequent, so it feels a lot like we're having the same conversations. I just want to get in on it and I want to make a change in the construction industry, so the more I can get out there and the more people like us can band together, I think the better.
Speaker 2:So before we dive into everything you're doing, a bit more of that, Tell us. Can we go back a little bit? How did this all start? Where did the passion come from for the industry and that type of stuff?
Speaker 1:So I grew up in Christchurch, new Zealand, and my dad was a builder and I used to go. I didn't hang out on the job site with him, but one thing that stands out in my memory for me is he put another level on my auntie and uncle's house and he did it on the weekends. So I went with him, we hung out, uh, there, and I watched him.
Speaker 2:I remember watching him vividly uh, throw a jib board on the on the walls or jib rock plaster sheets we've just employed another kiwi in our team after christmas and we started demolition job yesterday and he's like do you want me to bring the yard whacker? And I'm like what are you talking about? And he kept going on about his yard whackers and I'm like explain to me what you mean. What are you going to do with it? And he told me I was like you mean a whippersnipper?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Sorry.
Speaker 2:Yeah we have funny names like the Dwangs. Yeah, yeah, I get that all the time.
Speaker 1:But it was fascinating for me to watch and I remember sitting there playing with dolls, actually in the corner, watching him throw sheeting on the walls, and it just absolutely fascinated me. But I went to an all-girls high school and I was taught to you know like I was trained on typewriters and be a receptionist or a teacher or a nurse or anything girly. So the opportunity. Nobody ever handed me a hammer and said have a go. That was just not an opportunity for me back then and, to be honest, I was pretty meek and mild at that time anyway, so I probably wouldn't have done it. But I just didn't have the opportunity. And that's the thing that I want to change now, which is why I've done what I've done with my career.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it is something that gets overlooked, I guess, and missed, isn't it? Because, like, I talk about a lot when I was back at school, but I guess I've never really thought about it from a female's perspective, like, if you're at school and you're actually getting the opportunity to have those discussions about going into whether it's mining, construction, those types of industries, and it's not something you're going to probably have on your radar, no, definitely not, and I think going to a girl's school was, you know that, a disadvantage for me at that time.
Speaker 1:I don't know what it's like now at a girls' school, but I definitely know I've been to a lot of schools where they do try a trade and they have, you know, careers expos and we have trades there who are presenting and it's open to boys and to girls and I think you know like that's a massive turning point for our young people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so how did you go from then to getting into the industry?
Speaker 1:So I did what all Kiwi kids do and ran away from home when I finished high school, moved overseas and kind of I got some experience in admin and bookkeeping, so sort of clerical roles which I was trained to do and actually it was was really really good for me. And after I finished sort of overseas I came back to New Zealand where it was too small and then moved to Australia where I met my sole trader husband. So I had that clerical background with the bookkeeping and you know plenty of nous behind me. I was, you know, pretty smart student, pretty switched on, and essentially I took over the business and yeah, we built it from there.
Speaker 2:So was he a trades or was he a builder? He was a carpenter, yeah.
Speaker 1:So it was back in the olden days when we had the BSA and I did the, he and I did the builder's license together and it was, you know, you had that big thick booklet and you had to write and then you had to draw the trusses and you know like to get your builder's license. So we did that together. He was on the tools, I was at home with my babies and yeah. So I did all the theory, wrote all that out, and he came back and did all the technical stuff that I didn't know because I didn't do a trade certificate. So we, we did that together and then built our first business together.
Speaker 2:Awesome, so how long ago was that?
Speaker 1:That would have been almost 20 years ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Because I did it. I think this year I've had mine 19 years. I did mine through the BSA.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you'd remember.
Speaker 2:Big, thick shit book.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I can't remember the guy's name. There was a guy that he sort of kept ringing you, touching base and you could go in and spend some time with him if you had questions and things. But it wasn't done too bad. But yeah, definitely I wouldn't like to be trying to get it these days.
Speaker 1:I just did mine. Yeah, that was. It wasn't actually as bad as I thought it was going to be and, uh, I just had to. Well, I guess I was qualified, right. So, if it, if I wasn't qualified, then I probably would have had a shit time, but because I knew what I was talking about. They could obviously see that. And yeah.
Speaker 2:So, you did. So what did you do 20 years ago? It was his license. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you both run the company and now you've gone out and actually got your own license that's it, yeah yeah, awesome. So what type of work have you been doing over the last 20 years?
Speaker 1:so new builds and renos and trying to sort of steer into that larger scale um renovation extension. We do a fair bit of house raising and build under yeah in brisbane, yeah in brisbane yeah, we did go back.
Speaker 1:we did do some work in in new zealand after the earthquakes, um, but that was mainly consulting work. So a lot of construction companies grew way too fast for what they could manage and eventually would go tits up. So we went in as consultants. Sorry, I would go in as the finance and the admin side and then Jay, my husband, would be the operations side and essentially we would get them back up and running and profitable again.
Speaker 2:So is that what you mean by consulting failing companies?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's what we did in New Zealand. We did that for seven years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Can you tell us a little bit about that, because that's like I'm really passionate about that. Like, obviously there's a huge amount of quality trades and builders in Australia and New Zealand, but the business side is lacking. So what sort of stuff did you see? Like I'm imagining it was pretty similar across all businesses.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just, I guess for lack of a better term hemorrhaging money, so just spending money on things that weren't necessary, overpaying for materials, um, keeping staff who weren't effective, uh, so that was the. They were the main things that we went in and looked at immediately and then, um, just just knowing the figures, knowing, knowing your tax, knowing and paying, just paying on time, right yeah, but so many builders just don't.
Speaker 2:They have no idea what it's costing them to run open the doors every morning.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:Is that like a problem that you saw?
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely yeah, most business owners were good chippies but didn't know how to run a business, and I think that's the same for most. Which is actually one of the things that cheeses me off about our pathway is you go into your apprenticeship, you do your four years. You come out the other end thinking you're shit, hot, you can go out and run your own, you run your own thing and then you go into business or you know like, or you do your time and then you go out on your own. Why do we have to do that? Why do we have to have that trajectory? Why can't we do our apprenticeship, stay with that company and be a really good carpenter and then go into leading hand positions and project management positions? I don't know why. Our culture, and that in our culture, is that builders and carpenters, we have to go out on our own.
Speaker 2:Tyrone we actually talked about this on last week's um podcast as well like it seems to be a hot topic. But I look, I don't know if it's the way I was brought up or I sort of lean more towards. I think it's a old, old-fashioned type thing. Like I finished my time and, yes, I wanted more money, but I knew I had to work my way up, yeah. So like I finished my time, I started contracting to a builder and then I had to work my way up the ranks and like you didn't move to the next rank until you had proven yourself, whereas I feel these days it's just like, yep, I've done my time, I've got my piece of paper, I'm prepared, I can go and run my own business, I'm going to make a shitload of money, yeah. And I think all that's doing is adding to all the issues we have in our industry with defective work and businesses going broke because they're not taking the time to learn.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:I even heard a story well, it wasn't a story. I had a conversation with another builder I know only a couple of weeks ago about a past employee of ours we put through his time was an incredible young carpenter, was very skilled. Yeah, I really wanted to. We had conversations. I wanted to work him up through my business. But he's very ambitious. He had a lot of drive. We sort of come to an agreement. I was going to help him out, set company structures up and work him up through the ranks and things sort of. Three weeks later he's like I know I'm out of here, mate, I'm gonna do my own work and like 18 months later, like now he's hitting building companies up for 140, 150, 200 thousand dollars a year because he thinks he deserves to be that as a supervisor with 18 months experience out of his time.
Speaker 1:I think we've just got too greedy. And you know like I was talking about this actually after we listened to one of your podcasts when we did when we started out 20 odd years ago and even when my dad started out would have been 40, 50 years ago, it was you went into carpentry or a trade because you wanted that security of work. If you had your trade, you had work forever, regardless of whether you're employed or you're out on your own. Now people are going into these trades and carpentries especially to become rich and make money and all of this, and then they think they're going to do it by going out on their own. I can tell you here and now it doesn't work like that.
Speaker 2:Well, if you've got a switched on head and you get into it, you need the experience and you need to know how to run a business.
Speaker 1:That is a whole other beast. Yes, you might be a gun chippy, but if you don't know how to run a business, you're fucked.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and look like I said. I don't know if it's just the way I was brought up or that's just how we are a bit more old-fashioned, I guess 20 years ago. But the guest we had on the podcast last week, he really, I think, had a good point. He's like you have to prove yourself. I feel these days I guess it's the influence of social media. And I feel these days I guess it's the influence of social media and I was actually having a conversation with one of our contractors this morning about everyone's trying to live. Everyone is living so far outside their means.
Speaker 2:They all, see all this shit on social media and everyone puts shit on social media that they're out for dinner all the time. They're out shopping, they've got the flash car. They're out on the boat.
Speaker 1:They don't show you that they're living in a shit box or they can't pay their bills or and so like this.
Speaker 2:It's this real false sense of what reality is. Yeah, and so the conversation we're having this morning was, I feel like we've we've gotten to a point where people are living beyond their means and and expecting a lifestyle that they actually can't afford, and they keep wanting all their employers to just keep paying them more.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Whereas that's not how it works.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:You have to prove your worth and if you sit back, bite your tongue, put in the effort and prove that you're worth that. You've probably heard me talk about it on the podcast before. Prove that you're worth that. Yeah, like you've probably heard me talk about on the podcast before. Like, employees don't realize like they have to add a minimum of two to three times their value to a business for the business to be able to afford to have them yeah so there's all this stuff that just gets overlooked and, like you touched on experiences is a big one, like you can't.
Speaker 2:Like you touched on experiences is a big one like you can't. I don't feel in our industry there is no way like you can read all the books you want, you can do all the tapes you want, you can go to all the seminars you want, but like there is a lot of stuff that you just physically can't pick up without doing the hard yards on site yeah and working underneath a supervisor or a contract manager or a project manager or a builder that has done the hard yards we had, um, we had this, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're exactly right, we had in new zealand. We went through a phase where we're like, maybe we just need to, like you know, we miss building. Essentially, we didn't really want to run other people's companies, we just sort of fell into that. We missed the building side of it.
Speaker 1:And we had a business coach at the time and we were saying, oh, we want, we want to get back into building and we would have been well, jay would have been 30 ish at the time and he said to. He said to us to, and I was, I'm 28 at the time. He said to us I probably wouldn't employ you to build my house because you're so young. And we really took that on board and got more experience and did more stuff and did what we had to do. For people to look at us and go actually yes, you know what you're talking about which we felt like we did at the time. In somebody else's eyes, that wasn't the case. So I don't know how you know, these 20 year olds, 25 year olds are going out there getting work from people who just trust them to build a house or do an extension or whatever it might be I think back like I was.
Speaker 2:I was 27 when I got my builder's license. Because of the history, I had my carpentry business. Like we, we were building multi-million dollar house within 12 18 months of getting my license and look, those houses are still great houses today. But, like I think back, there's half a dozen of them that I think back to quite regularly and think shit like I could have. I should have done that differently or I could have done that a lot better, and it's purely because of what I've learned in the the last 15 years or 17 years. I just didn't have the experience but, that's all it come down to like.
Speaker 2:I could read the plans, I could, I could get on google, I could search things up, but I just simply did not have the experience.
Speaker 1:I think as well. It's really refreshing to hear you say that, because it means you actually give a shit right if you're thinking back at those on those jobs. I do it all the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I talk to my team, like I talk to my whole team about it, like I I. One thing that I try and do now a lot is take 100 ownership yeah and so yeah, oh, quite often during a site meeting or when we're discussing something say like I know jobs where I fucked that up, but I just I thought I knew what I was doing, but I just didn't. Yeah again, you just can't. There are things you can't learn without being on site spending the time listening to people that have done it before.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Or doing it a few times yourself and figuring it out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just getting that experience. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:But it's like what's your thoughts on how the industry is going to end up if we keep going down that path?
Speaker 1:I'm really frightened for the industry for multiple reasons, and one of the reasons is that we're bringing people on who just know how to frame, they just know how to do fix out, they just know how to do roofing, and we're signing them off and sending them out into the big wide world as a carpenter yeah, as a carpenter or a plasterer that's only ever done sheeting or setting, or it doesn't.
Speaker 1:It doesn't thrill me that we're losing our craft. Um, and that's one of our. One of our things that we focus on really heavily is is training our young people and our apprentices to be able to do everything. So we do our own set outs, we do our own, pour our own concrete, tie our own steel. Well, we do all our own on-site welding, roofing. Um, I'm pretty handy at cabinet making. We don't do a lot of tiling, but every now and again we might get hang our own sheets like. We do all of that, and we train our young people to do that as well, so that at the end, when we sign that kid off on their fourth year, we know that either we're keeping them in the business or we're sending out somebody who actually knows why you need to make a concrete slab straight, why your framing needs to be level and dead straight and plumb, and, and you know so. Um, that is something that scares me about the future of the building industry yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:Uh, worries me. I I'm not sure if you saw like there was um. So, whatever it is, I think in the last week of january 2025, the prime minister I think last week and announced this $10,000. Have you seen this? Keep going $10,000 subsidy to keep apprentices employed. So over their four years they're going to get $2,500 extra a year in their pocket.
Speaker 1:I did hear this. Yeah, I don't know the ins and outs of it though.
Speaker 2:I don't know the ins and outs of it, but a journalist't know the ins and outs of it. But a journalist rang me he'd heard it in the morning and he rang me up and goes hey, duane, have you heard about this? This is what's happening. What's your thoughts?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I don't hold back anymore when people ask me questions. I'm like mate, you've only just told me this, but to be honest, I think the government doesn't have a clue. They haven't done enough research and giving apprentices an extra 10 grand isn't going to achieve what you want it to achieve. And I said, I've got and had dozens of apprentices that get to their third and fourth year and they haven't even got a lot of tools and they can't even do the job correctly because they haven't spent their tool out on buying tools. If you ask me that, two and a half thousand should be getting given to the employer and they go and meet them at a tool shop and you load them up with the gear they need so that when they're on site they're not pissing the tradesman off because they're using their gear all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they just throw money at it, and anything else is too much admin, so they don't bother. You're dead right, though. That's what needs to.
Speaker 2:All the other options, I said we need to look. And oh, the other option I said we need to look and look, I don't know how you'd I guess the thing they don't. There's so many parts to it. I guess it's bigger than what we actually think. But you go give the extra 10 grand to an employer and there's a good chance that a few employers will just put it straight in their pocket. But, like I said, the other thing, that like part of it should be tools, but the other thing should be using that money to book them into additional training, get them to seminars, get them to business coaches. Like, yeah, like 10 grand would cover 12 months for a business coach, for an apprentice, like that would be so much more valuable than just trying to give them 10 grand just to keep them in a job yeah, um, that's, but that seems to be the government solution, though, isn't it?
Speaker 1:just Just throw money at it? Yeah, that's for most things, not just that, but just throw some money at it and hope for the best.
Speaker 2:It really excites me because you're one of a lot of people at the moment. I feel like every builder I talk to at the moment that runs a decent business. The key thing that we're all talking about is training our younger people better. Yeah, we have to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's the future of our business. It's like raising children. You don't raise kids to be assholes. So right, we want people to like our children and we want them to succeed in the world. It's and and I feel like that with my apprentices I want them to be good people and to know it's a reflection on me. So that's just how I feel about it.
Speaker 2:I like the way you put that. Yeah, 100%. So what are you doing in your business to allow, I guess, them to get the appropriate time spent with them?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we take on complicated jobs. We have taken on complicated jobs and then jobs as well that expose them to as many different, you know, types of trades that we don't have on site. They do it themselves. So new builds, for example, like site set out. So how many people, how many chibis do you know, don't know how to do a site set out? That's a lot um. So, yeah, we, we just try and take on interesting jobs that make them think, make us think as well. We're not. We don't know how to do a site set out. That's a lot um. So, yeah, we, we just try and take on interesting jobs that make them think, make us think as well. We're not. We're not boring carpenters. We're not going out there just slapping up houses and then moving on. We, um, we don't do waffle pod slabs, um.
Speaker 2:We don't do prefab frames, um, yeah, everything we do is from scratch and right from the beginning yeah, but how do you get, like, how do you get your carpenters and your tradesmen to understand that sometimes they need to slow down and spend more time with the younger?
Speaker 1:we only take on carpenters who will do that. That is part of the job description. You must be able to teach, you must be able to train our apprentices and it's not in everyone yeah, teaching that's something that I've realized definitely in the last 12, 18 months.
Speaker 2:Like we're not taught to be teachers yeah, no I see it in my trades when they they get so frustrated and I have to keep telling them, like you didn't know once, yeah, like you can't just yell at him because he's taking his time or doesn't know what tool to use. Like yeah, we have to keep telling them, like you didn't know once, yeah. Like you can't just yell at him because he's taking it so long and doesn't know what tool to use. Like we have to slow down. We've got to spend time with them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think as well like being on site myself and Jay as well being on site with the apprentices and actually slowing everything down, stop and watch and then do. We're teaching our leading hands and our carpenters to actually then mimic that behavior as well. So, coming right from the from the top down, everybody knows the apprentices are there to learn and, to be honest, sometimes we get carpenters who don't know stuff as well, especially when we do everything. We often get carpenters who haven't had that experience throughout their careers, so we're quite often teaching them as well. It's hard get carpenters who haven't had that experience throughout their careers, so we're quite often teaching them as well it's hard.
Speaker 2:Like carpenters, I guess I'm not sure on the words for it, but like, because like you don't, like a builder doesn't employ a plumber or a plasterer, like builders employ carpenters, so, and then so a lot of people think carpentry is just all the frame, fit out, fix um cladding and things. But like, we do the exact same, like in our business, our carpenters do everything. Um, so it's almost like, like I don't know, they need to have another apprenticeship and they may be called a building apprenticeship. Um, like, if you want to be a carpenter, you're going to work with a carpentry gang that just subcontracts and just does carpentry. But if you want to work with a builder, like, it's almost like it needs to be another, um, a different type of apprenticeship maybe yeah, yeah, I don't know I don't know.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I think about it all the time because, yeah, we, we get, like you say, we get carboners come to us, we say we want to lead carboner and they apply yeah. And then when you ask them oh, can you do set out, can you do a slab prep? Can you do driveway prep?
Speaker 1:I've never done that before. I've never done any of that. But yeah, and it's more and more frequent, we're recruiting at the moment, and that's you know. It's so hard to find somebody who has had a taste of everything, because it's just not how they're taught anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is frustrating and but I the the flip side of that is like I try and really drum into my team and and to my especially my apprentices. Like you have an incredible opportunity. Like any and I think for any, I guess, younger trades or apprentices that are listening to this podcast if you're working for a builder that is doing the entire lot, it is an incredible opportunity. Don't fuck it up. Take it on board.
Speaker 1:It's so hard to tell kids that they come straight out of high school and they still live with mum and dad right through their apprenticeship. They don't understand that until afterwards, when they actually go out on their own and they go.
Speaker 2:oh shit, actually that was probably pretty good, eh so, um, like I want to go back to the business side of stuff, because that that's where our industry falls over a lot like, do you think that your business has been a lot more successful because you did that? Like you had a bit of a background in administration and stuff before you got involved?
Speaker 1:yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah. So having that knowledge behind me was paramount. So I um sort of in the admin jobs, worked my way up into management type positions where I was, you know, analyzing, analysing figures and running reports and you know, doing all of that kind of stuff. I tended to stick to sort of male dominated industries too. I'm not sure how that's come about, it just seems to be that way. And then so I was always the token girl and I was always the one in the office, so generally I was left to run everything. So that's sort of how I, how I started, and and it was um, I don't know, I just it's just in me to have I guess, I don't know, maybe my parents instilled that in me, I don't know just to to understand the figures, know if you're profitable, know if you're wasting money on something and how you can do it better. Like that it's just, it's just been in me forever. Yeah, yeah, so, and practicing on other companies was great.
Speaker 2:I could take it into my own situations and yeah, it's um look I think the industry I say all the time like the industry would definitely fall over if it wasn't for the wives and partners that are doing all the admin behind the scenes like definitely fall over if it wasn't for the wives and partners that are doing all the admin behind the scenes. You think of how many trades and builders are out there that their wife's probably got their own career or busy with young kids and things and yet they spend a lot of time after hours and stuff getting their husband's businesses out of the shit, helping them out with all the admin and book work and stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was my mum, Except back in the day. She had that big ledger book and she put it on the kitchen table after she had done her full-time job and come home. And she would. She would balance everything for my dad when he had an attempt at having his own business, which didn't last all that long. But, um, yeah, that was, that was my mom. I'm not quite like that it that I found that quite boring, which is why I've gone out and got my builder's license and I'm way more hands-on. I don't actually have an admin person at the moment. I just do fucking everything um but um. But I have had admin and bookkeeping help in the past, which has been a godsend. It means I can do my actual job, um, but yeah, look, I don't think we need to stereotype the, the gender or or the relationship, but having somebody in that back end, knowing what they're doing is, is what we, what we need for every business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah so what's your role in your business?
Speaker 1:I do fucking everything. So I am usually the first point of contact. So I take all of the inquiries. I do all of the initial site consults, client meets and greets, talk about the project, what's possible, what their budget is, what they can achieve for the budget, go through all of that. I organise all of the pre-construction documentation. So architectures, engineering, building approvals, whatever we need to get the building approvals, take clients through that whole process. I quote the job, do all the interior, fit out selections, do all of that stuff, quote all of that. It's all part of our fixed price quotes. We open book our quotes as well so the client gets to see where every single cent is being spent how many nails we need, how many sticks of timber.
Speaker 2:How does that work for you? Really well, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, really well. Our software is built for the construction industry and flipping variations through is so easy, and when the client gets to see um, what we're swapping in and out just makes life so easy and admin so easy and do you have a separate line item for supervision and a separate line item for your overheads? Um, yeah, we have a preliminaries category where all of that is included.
Speaker 2:yes, yes, yeah and then how do they like, how does the clients take it when they see what margins you're making or what those preliminary costs are? Because most people are happy for a builder to make their 10% or 15% profit.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But they don't understand what the overhead and the preliminary costs are of running a business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's included in there, and I have never had anybody kick back on it. And then we also have our margins in our material costs and our labour costs as well, yeah, so, for example, framing is a line item.
Speaker 2:This much framing, this much labour this many deliveries, so does that include the cost of the material and your margin on top of it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, and the labor.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's not. It's not like itemized this is how much money we're making, you know. It's um. It's enough that the client sees where their money is going, but it's also enough for us that um, you know the clients don't.
Speaker 2:clients don't need to know what you're making and what it's taking to run your business and what you're paying your carpenters and what your carpenters, and they don't know that.
Speaker 1:That's not how specific we get, otherwise the quote would be like a whole ream of paper. No, no, not quite like that, but it's more for things like so you're showing categories.
Speaker 2:You're showing all your main categories. Yeah, and what's in there? So, so you're showing categories.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you're showing all your main categories. Yeah, and what's in there? So, for example, because I go through and do all the selections, so I've got the vanity type, the finish, the handles, the sinks, the taps that we've selected, so I do all of that. Included in that price is my labor to install whatever needs installing and the delivery select, like my time, to select said item. You know so they don't sit, don't necessarily see a breakdown of that, but it's just that particular item. How much, how much it costs me essentially?
Speaker 2:yeah um, sorry, and then we went off track there. That's all right, I saw you prick up up.
Speaker 1:actually, I know you love to give advice to people.
Speaker 2:I'm huge on people understanding their costs. We know from the thousands of we're over a thousand builders now with Live Life Build that we've worked through with their overheads. I can honestly count on one hand the number of builders that have been close. That's why I'm adamant over 80% of the industry is trading in solvent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, People just don't really understand the numbers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's the overheads and getting in the mindset that you're an employee to the company and you should be getting paid a salary for your role and that the company needs to make profit on top of that. So we can have a conversation later about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, we're all over it. Yeah, pretty comfortable, but yeah, so after the quoting then I go to contract, do all the contracts administration and then I project manage it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And sometimes I'm on the tools. Sometimes I'm too slow and they kick me off site, which is most of the time.
Speaker 2:So how do?
Speaker 1:you time manage like how do?
Speaker 1:you. Oh fuck, I don't know, um, yeah, yeah, some days it's hard, some days it's hard and I'll be honest, yesterday I did freak out and have a meltdown and I can't do all of this on my own and yeah, it's, it's fucking hard, um. And then other days I sail through it and I make a list and check it off and cruise through. So it's just about juggling and managing. I'm really lucky that you know Jay is extremely supportive of what I do, obviously, because it helps him out a bunch. But and you know, if I need help, I just say I need help. You need to stop what you're doing and help me do this. And then, as well, my kids are teenagers now. My eldest left school. He finished year 12 last year, um, so I'm not needed at home as much as I used to be, so that does make it a little bit easier.
Speaker 1:I don't work it is a lot. Yeah, I don't work weekends and I don't work after five. If that makes you feel any better, it makes me feel better. Yeah, and I still manage to go to the gym every morning and play netball on Wednesday and cook dinner and all of that.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I just manage it. It's hard because and look, this is why I like to dig a bit deeper into things, because it's the number one thing that people complain about all the time is time management and having no time and those types of things. So again, I think it's another big thing that's overlooked, like time management, scheduling personal scheduling all that type of stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not going to lie, I'm not always the best at it and there are times, like I said, when I do actually fall apart and I can't cope, and then there are times when I'm good with it. I do need help in that admin and bookkeeping stuff. It would be great if I could find somebody who knew what they were doing in that space and unfortunately, the way our software works is very specific to our business and they have to be in the office to do it.
Speaker 1:I can't like just send it off to somebody remote it's not software using so it's called bizprac. I don't know if you've heard it it's developed in in brisbane and it is specific for the construction industry. It handles accounting, variations, project management. Yeah, all the reporting it's all in one place. It's really really good yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that, like it is a because, since COVID, people don't want to work in offices, do they Like people want to be able to do everything remotely, so it's hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and as well. I just need help in that. Well, no, I probably need more help. Really, let's be honest, I was going to say it's probably only two days a week and that's not enough for most. So I have struggled with that a little bit.
Speaker 2:Have you ever tracked your task and written them all?
Speaker 1:Oh, no, no, I don't want to do that.
Speaker 2:You have to do that oh my God, I think that would freak me out when people sign up to Live Like Build and they do an onboarding call, like I recommend. We did it for years, a long time ago, but I recommend everyone should do it for a minimum of 8 to 10 weeks, 12 weeks, because if you don't like, it's all in your head, like if you write down everything you do every single day and then at the end of each week sort of categorize them into whether it's a well, a lot of the bills I'm talking to and trades. We get quite a few trades now. They're either on the tools, supervising or project management, which we just class that as all the admin stuff. So generally they can put all their tasks into those one of those three categories. But if you write them all down, it's it's really easy to go back through and identify which ones are really easy to palm off to, like either a junior admin or a senior.
Speaker 2:Like you can figure out who you need to hire yeah and the reason I get people to do that exercise is when you, once you've identified, like I tell them. Once you've identified, like I tell them, once I've done that, and they put them in these categories, I then tell them to put them into another two categories, which is ones that you love and you get out of bed for every day and if that's all you could do, you could do. And the other category is ones that if you could pay someone today to do, you would push it off straight away.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because when you do that, you can figure out who that person, who that high, is going to be, um, and you work that into your overhead like a big thing. I'm really pushing all of our elevate members to understand is and I think this is across this isn't just construction industry, this is everyone like people wait to, like they think they need to get to a certain save a certain amount of money or get a certain amount of work to grow the business or whatever the case may be. And the reality is they get to that doesn't happen. They get to a point where they can't handle anymore. They put someone else on and then that salary just starts coming out of their salary and they're actually earning less money.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but if you figure out who you need say it's an admin person, $60,000 a year you put that $60,000 a year in your overhead and you work it into all your future jobs. Reality is clients are coming to us as a professional company to do work for them and for us to be able to do that work, we have to be able to run our businesses a certain way efficiently and all those types of things be profitable. So it's okay to play around with your overheads to cover those types of costs. A lot of people don't do that, but I would definitely recommend you do that exercise Write all your tasks down.
Speaker 1:Oh, that would scare me, and half the time I'm doing multiple things at once. How?
Speaker 2:do you?
Speaker 1:categorize that I'm on the phone, I'm drawing something on SketchUp and then I'm yeah, it's a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I can try it, but yeah, I would. I have actually tried before to manage my time when I've got like massive deadlines or you know something's getting behind, to sit down in the morning and schedule out time blocks for certain things. Because I know that if you, you, you know, um, you work more effectively if you do things for a certain period of time, and so I've tried to do that before, but I get so off track and then something you know like then the phone will ring and I'll have to go out and pick something up and take it to side, or you know, like it's, it's my job is not linear, it's it's like mental yeah, I think that's another thing that people, if you haven't worked in our industry, like I, get into arguments about this because people just say, oh, it's no different to accounting or it's no different to admin work, but like if you haven't worked in our industry and understood all the different angles that shit comes from.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's hard to explain, yeah.
Speaker 1:I find it hard to explain to not that I try to, but I would find it hard to explain to my staff what I do, because there's some times where I don't go to site and they can't see me and I don't know what they think I don't really care what they think, to be honest and I go there and then I'm there for half an hour or an hour or whatever and then I nick off again, so I don't know what they think I do, but the only reason that they're there is because of me you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, actually this comes full circle back to what we're talking about with apprentices and things like those young guys that are on the site and finish their time and think, oh, I'm out of here, I'm gonna go and do my own show that they've only seen that yeah, like a lot of them have only seen that the trucks rock up to site and have the gear delivered and the concreters show up yeah um yeah, well that like when, when I'm there and I'm there for half an hour, I'm actually taking 14 phone calls during that half an hour sorting everybody's shit out.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, and so, like, they just think, like and this is what I picked up with a few of the young carpenters that we've had move on and then think all of a sudden they can run jobs and they're supervisors.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like the trades show up, like the Sparky shows up to do his rough in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they don't know where the stuff's going, they just think all this stuff happens and no, it's fine, I can manage this.
Speaker 2:I've told the Sparky to go and just do what he needs to do over there, but they don't realize that there's been six to twelve months prior to contract signing of all this other information, planning, scheduling selections yeah, um costings and then once you go to contract, scheduling the job out, doing work orders, like all this stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, yeah, it's fun. I do think it's quite funny that people on site you either get the ones on site that are interested and understand as the lot goes on, or you get the ones that just think, fuck, I'm the important one.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, yeah, it's all me, it's all on site. I'm doing all the work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm doing all the work. Yeah, I'm doing all the work. Yeah, I think there's a lot of them out there, yeah, so let's move on, because I really want to get into all the stuff you're doing for women in the industry. So can you tell us a little bit about that and how you got into that space?
Speaker 1:So I started our businesses business businesses by myself or with my husband, obviously, but by myself. I didn't have a coach, I didn't have someone standing there telling me how to do things. I read a lot, I Googled a lot. I made lots of mistakes. And when we came back to Australia after being in New Zealand and we started Axiom, I did it again. This time I was pretty good at it because I'd done it a couple of times and I'd done it for other companies as well and I thought you know what I know?
Speaker 1:There's other people out there and women who are trying to start their own thing, trying to navigate this minefield, and they don't know what they're doing and they're making mistakes. If I can help them, what, like? I've got all this knowledge in my head. Why can't I like share it? Which is when I started getting involved with organizations like AWIC and a little bit NARWIC and Women Building Australia. I'm a mentor for them. Master Builders have been really supportive and I'm involved in a lot of initiatives that they're doing EWIC so yeah, that's kind of what started it.
Speaker 2:What's EWIC?
Speaker 1:I haven't heard EWIC Emerging Women in Construction. So it's an organisation put together by Master Builders Queensland for which I am an ambassador, and it's essentially a mentoring position or a mentoring program, I should say, for the first two years of our women coming into trades. So we're losing girls in particular after the second year, or like in that second year, and obviously there's an issue there. So master builders wants to get to the bottom of it why, what's the issue, what's the hang-up, why, how come we can't keep these kids in apprenticeships?
Speaker 2:why do they have, like they got any ideas, why that is?
Speaker 1:um, I think that's why they've started this program. They know the statistics. They need to now get to the bottom of it yeah, look, I imagine it's hard like I've.
Speaker 2:I've definitely put my hand up a lot in the last 12 months because there are so many things that I just have not even considered like. And we are starting to see a lot more women on our sites. Um, our trades have got women working for them. Yeah, um, we've had a couple of women apply for, um carpenter roles that it hasn't panned out, but there's just things that I've completely overlooked, haven't even thought about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but that's not like I don't think we should feel bad for that, because you know, like we're undoing hundreds of years of something being a certain way which is men are the builders, men are the trades. That's just how we have been. So, yes, it's a turning point in our industry, but I don't think we need to beat ourselves up for not being on board with that. We need to acknowledge, be open to it and embrace the future.
Speaker 2:That's good, I like that. Make sure you remember that for the seminar that you're, uh, the event you're coming to, okay, but I guess you're right, like we are, we're changing the way that things have just been done, so, um it's pretty.
Speaker 1:It would be pretty easy for me to go on site and have a chip on my shoulder about every dickhead that comes on, you know, and when they don't anymore because I've just sacked them. But, um, and you know like it looks past me, are you the owner? Like, how many times have I heard that? Are you the owner? They just assume because I'm the girl and half the time I'm not in. Um, I'm not in PPE or not in my Axiom shirt or whatever. Um, sometimes I am dressed to go to a client meeting or go and do a selection with another client or whatever it might be. So it's an easy assumption to make. And you know, I don't, I don't, what's the word for it. You know, it's just how it is and I'm prepared to take that shit to undo it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think it's fantastic. So, but you're um, you're an ambassador also for AWIC.
Speaker 1:I am the chairperson on the board at AWIC.
Speaker 2:Yeah, awesome.
Speaker 1:New appointment as of September last year.
Speaker 2:Excellent Congratulations. Thank you, just getting the handle on it, sorry.
Speaker 1:Just getting the handle on it.
Speaker 2:So what's involved in that role? What? What's the plan?
Speaker 1:So we've I've just done a bit of a restructure of our committee and hopefully I can get things humming along. We can increase our membership and create more events, which would be nice, get more networking going and just bigger and better things. Amanda Buelow is an incredible person and, um, I just need to be her support so she can go off and do the amazing things that she's doing. So I'll run the normal part of a week while she goes off and conquers the world is a week australia wide not yet.
Speaker 1:Not yet watch this space I like it.
Speaker 2:I like it now. Look for those that are listening. Um, we actually had amanda on the podcast a long time ago, but, um, yeah, go and search um amanda up and yeah, have a listen to what she had to say amazing she's gone leaps and bounds since we spoke to her yeah, she's, she's one of a kind. Yeah, she's unrelenting, just loves it so much because they, like you, have the big award ceremony each year, which I've seen the last two years has been massive yeah, it's huge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, international women's day is a big one. We've just sold out 500, uh 500 seats. Yeah, on international women's day, so that's pretty exciting, which is really like a huge feat, because it is on international women's day and there are multiple associations having events on that actual day, but we've sold out the end of january 500, 500 seats, so that's incredible that is huge yeah so when's that?
Speaker 2:this weekend or tomorrow? March, 7th international women's day, dwayne oh, but you've sold out by the end of january. That's yeah, yeah, sorry my bad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've sold out now as of now.
Speaker 2:Yeah that's really really cool. Yeah, that's something to be very proud of yeah do you like? Can females call you up and like how do they get involved with these programs, like the master builders thing and stuff?
Speaker 1:yeah, so, um, yeah, they can call me sure, um, I actually you got a lot on your plate, so I don't want everyone just calling you.
Speaker 1:Like send me an email, then um no, look, the ewik program is is run through master builders queensland, so you can definitely go on to that website. Uh, women building australia is is another one I've been in with for a few years, so you can just google, google Women Building Australia. They have a whole mentoring program there. Narwic as well, the National Association of Women in Construction. They also have a mentoring program. I'm not doing it this year, I just serve so much on my plate and I'm still mentoring the people who I mentored, like years ago. I've kept up with their relationship. So, um, there's quite a few of them busy, busy person oh, it's boring if you're not busy.
Speaker 1:So like?
Speaker 2:do you know some of the struggles like what? What are some of the the key things I guess that females in the industry struggle with? From your from what you're hearing yeah, um, not knowing stuff.
Speaker 1:We feel like we need to know everything. We need to have all of the answers right now on the spot when the question's asked. Um, that's one I struggle with. I still struggle with that if I don't know the answer. Or you know like, if you, if you kind of stun me with some technical information I don't know, I just go. You know like I feel like I need to know the answer to everything. I feel like a lot of women struggle with that.
Speaker 2:Um, does that and does so, does that have a flowering effect and makes you feel that you're not achieving things or you're not able to do your job correctly? Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:You just feel at, you know out of your depth who am I to? I still feel now I've had my builder's license for a year now and I've been in the industry for 20 years I still feel like they shouldn't have given me that builder's license and I shouldn't be in charge of a whole company all by myself like massive imposter syndrome.
Speaker 2:Where does that come from? Is that a? Do we want to go that far?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Like a deep-seated childhood trauma of not feeling seen, not feeling good enough. Yeah, it's definitely what that is. I don't feel good enough, and I know a lot of people feel like that as well. You just don't feel good enough, and then when you're tested, it's reaffirmed that you're not good enough, so it just keeps that trauma going.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's huge and that's. I don't think that's just a female thing I agree, it's a person thing it's um, I think we've all got just so much shit that's instilled in us that we need to just get out there like we've got to figure out who we are. Be our own person, yeah, I.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think as well. We all need to understand that we're all struggling and we all struggle especially with that one. Most people struggle with that. I'm not good enough, or I'm not enough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. What's some of the others that are holding women back? Like, is it a comfort thing? Like, do females that are wanting to get in the industry struggle? That it's all males and being around males?
Speaker 1:Potentially Not me I could give two shits. I don't care. I'm used to being the only girl. I don't know, like I don't know where that comes from. I'm happy that doesn't bother me at all. It's often in my career, I guess. There are times when it can be intimidating. When I am, and if people look to me for questions or advice or solutions, then maybe I do start to freak out. Maybe other women feel intimidated also. I would imagine that's a real thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, like I hope we get to a place where it's just all equal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that would be good eh.
Speaker 2:Like for me I've put it out there heaps of times it shits me what's going on in the world when it comes to gender and all that sort of stuff. Like, for me it's simple. Like, if you love something, you want to do it, you're good at it, go and do it it should just be a human thing, shouldn't? It yeah, exactly human.
Speaker 1:Did you see my speech at the Master Builders Awards?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you should look at that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I say words to that effect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, go for it, oh my.
Speaker 1:God, I don't think I can repeat it.
Speaker 2:Go, and I can repeat it Go on my socials and check it out. On your Instagram. Yeah, I did go back through a lot of your socials but I don't remember seeing that one.
Speaker 1:So the Queensland or the Brisbane Regional Master Builders Awards, I won the Women in Building Award and I had to make a speech and I was very unprepared, so I just opened my mouth and it just all went blah, but essentially, yeah, well it was. The people still come up to me now and say, oh, you made that speech, didn't you? So it resonated with a lot of people. But basically I said that it like it shouldn't matter who we are, where we come from, who we love, who we live with, with, like that should make no difference. If you want to do the thing that you enjoy doing, just fucking do it. Yeah, doesn't, doesn't?
Speaker 2:none of that other shit should matter I personally believe that's how simple it needs to be yeah like there's just so much other crap that people throw around, like let's just keep it that simple.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:If you want to do something, do it.
Speaker 1:So after the reaction from that speech, I then went on to win the Queensland Women in Building Award and then I had to make another speech and I was like Jesus the pressure, I don't know. I can't really remember what I said. Then I had a few champagnes after that one. But yeah, no, definitely we need to embrace, and how boring would it be if, like, we go to our job and see the same type of person every day, like, come on, we need that diversity, whether it's male and female, or you come from another country, or you're transgender or whoever you are. We need that diversity to make things better. We all think differently, we all have different opinions.
Speaker 2:Let's just collaborate yeah, I think that, like, whether it's male or female, like we, everyone brings a lot to the table, yeah, um, and whether you're a hands-on female, like you are, or you're a female that is sitting behind the scenes or in the building business but doing the admin work yeah like I I can't put a dollar value on how much wealth having females in my building business has created us like it's just I guess I'm not sure on the words for it but like, exactly like you said, we're all different yeah like my wife, brings very different opinions to certain situations like um, like just being able to have those round, those conversations with like because myself we've got a construction manager, now we've got a supervisor, like we're all males, and then my wife and our accounts manager are females and then we've got a va like being able to have conversations on a regular basis like it's I.
Speaker 2:I think it's just part of us. Naturally, men handle things differently to how women handle things. And when you combine the two you get really good outcomes. So why do we have to fight that?
Speaker 1:it's got to be one way or the other, Like I just yeah, I'm quite often relied upon for my intuition, which I don't think no offense. I don't think a lot of blokes have the same level of intuition as as women do yeah, sorry, that was really gender specific and that's I agree.
Speaker 1:But that's and and that's what I'm relied on in our business like we'll, we'll do an interview and straight away they'll leave. And or a job interview straight awayaway they'll leave. And so what do you think? You know, like it's my job to be? No, that person's going to be a pain in the ass. We're not employing that person.
Speaker 2:And I think that's what I'm trying to articulate. I don't know the words for it, but look, we naturally have different abilities, and there's definitely abilities that females have that men will just never be as good at, and vice versa absolutely why not play to our strengths and work together? Yeah um, yeah, I just think there's a huge, huge space for um females in the industry and I I really it really excites me seeing like I'd love to see more females on site um running trades and building businesses.
Speaker 1:And yeah, um, be good wouldn't that? Yeah, it would just make make things so different and equal. And yeah, yeah, I can't wait for that day, yeah yeah, look, I think you're doing incredible things like um.
Speaker 2:I just think, keep doing what you guys are doing, especially with Amanda in your new position in that set-up. I think that's going to be pretty exciting to see where that goes.
Speaker 1:I don't feel like I'm doing anything outstanding. I'm just doing what comes naturally. So if that's inspiring somebody or if it's working for someone, I'm going to keep doing it anyway, because it's what I love and it seems to be what I'm good at, so I'll just keep pegging away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I imagine it's become a passion. That's what's driving you to do everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yes, the probably women in construction and training up those apprentices are definitely my two two passions, for sure. And the work as well. Like look, I'm not, I'm not gonna lie. I do love going into an empty block of land, envisioning it and then being able to create it like that's something else, and that really blows my hair back. But along way I get to do these other amazing things that are going to be good for the industry. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Before we start to wrap it up, what advice would you give for young females out there that are considering coming into the industry?
Speaker 1:Keep interviewing for the right place. So there are people who will shaft you and there are people who are not going to be accepting of you. It's not nothing to do with you, it's everything to do with them. So don't take it personally. You can do it. There are people out there who are going to love and accept you. You just have to keep pegging away and find that right person, that right company.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and what about advice for if there is females out there that are in their second year and considering throwing it all away? Like what advice for?
Speaker 1:them. Yeah, first, can you give me a call and just let me know why, so I can add that into um, some government grant or incentive or something that we can let's fix that. We need to fix that. Um, yeah, if it's, if it's what you want to be doing, then stick at it like don't, don't give it up, it's hard, it is hard. I'm not gonna sugarcoat it, it's fucking hard. But if you stick at it it will become easier and you will get better at it and and it will be so rewarding in the end.
Speaker 2:Yeah, jeez, your phone's going to be running hot after that. Sorry, no, please don't call me.
Speaker 1:My phone number is no.
Speaker 2:Look, I really appreciate you taking the time out to come and have a chat. I definitely am excited to see where you end up. I can't wait to have you at our level up event. Um, as part of the um board of females we're going to have there. So, um, yeah, stay tuned for that. There'll be more information coming out soon. But, um, yeah, really appreciate your time. I know it's been hot sitting here in the shed, but, um, it's been a pleasure having a chat to you.
Speaker 1:So well done thank you for having me all right guys.
Speaker 2:Well, um, if you've liked that conversation, please like subscribe all those types of things. Remember that you can go to the Level Up website or the Duane Pierce website and purchase the Level Up merchandise. And, yeah, please keep watching and listening to this podcast so we can continue to make this Australia's number one construction industry podcast.
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Speaker 2:Slash elevate to get started. Everything discussed during the level up podcast with me, duane pierce, is based solely on my own personal experiences and those experiences of my guests. The information, opinions and recommendations presented in this podcast are for general information only, and any reliance on the information provided in this podcast is done at your own risk. We recommend that you obtain your own professional advice in respect to the topics discussed during this podcast.