The "Level Up" with Duayne Pearce Podcast
I take on the role of an authoritative voice that fearlessly communicates truths drawn directly from my lived experiences. With a genuine sense of ownership, my insights are free from any hidden agendas – they truly belong to the audience. My stories and journey add remarkable value, the key now lies in harnessing its power effectively to help others.
My purpose is to create a new residential building industry. My mission is to inspire unshakable self-confidence in my colleagues in the industry, empowering them to orchestrate prosperous, enduring, and lucrative businesses that bring exceptional projects to fruition for our clients.
My goal is to foster a deeper comprehension among clients about the identity and functions of builders, redefining their perceptions.
The "Level Up" with Duayne Pearce Podcast
The 1 Percenters to Become a Better Craftsman.
GET YOUR TICKETS TO THE LEVEL UP EXPERIENCE HERE - https://duaynepearce.com/events/
#134 Seasoned builder Craig Stuart returns for his fifth appearance to share invaluable construction tips aimed at preserving traditional building craftsmanship in an industry where quality is often compromised.
Check out Duayne's other projects here...
Live Life Build
livelifebuild.com
D Pearce Constructions
dpearceconstructions.com.au
QuoteEaze
quoteeaze.com/Free-Offer.html
GET YOUR TICKETS TO THE LEVEL UP EXPERIENCE HERE - https://duaynepearce.com/events/
Get rid of this old. I think it's old-fashioned. Like near enough is good enough. Yep, there's too much of that in the industry. Like near enough is not good enough.
Speaker 2:Aiming for the one percenter. You know, do one percenter better today than you did yesterday? Yeah, definitely, and I think that if the industry took that on board, we'd have a lot better industry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, 100% G'day guys. Welcome back to another cracking episode of Level Up. We are back with the Godfather today. I've been looking forward to this. It's his fifth appearance on the Level Up podcast and, yeah, a big, warm welcome to Craig Stewart from Stewart Homes and Renovations. How are you, mate? I'm well. Thanks, soyan.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having us back, and it's always a pleasure to be here, mate.
Speaker 1:Oh, mate, I love Craig and I've I don't know, we've become a bit of a relationship. We talk quite regularly, don't we? We chew the fat and talk about things and Craig's always reaching out and it's been really good. But before we get into it too much, so we're putting on the Level Up Experience. So on the 30th of May this year, the Level Up Experience. It is going to be the greatest event that the construction industry has ever seen in Australia.
Speaker 1:If you're a builder, a trader, a designer, an architect, a homeowner, anybody that is interested in healthy homes, building science, better businesses, personal development, you name it you can't afford to miss this event. And actually the godfather sitting here is actually going to be a part of the event that day. And after listening to the podcast and what he's got to offer today, you do not want to miss it, especially if you're a young, young tradie or apprentice. So make sure you head across to the duanepeircecom website to make sure you secure your tickets, because tickets are limited. Yeah, and can't wait to see you there, but we'll get cracking into this podcast, mate. And uh, the reason we got craig back today, um, what was it?
Speaker 2:maybe the last one we did where we just talked about some tips and hints and things during the podcast and you just got flooded with people reaching out to you for advice yeah, I was really sort of taken back by the amount of young guys that reached out and there's still a couple of guys that reach out to me now on different occasions just to ask questions or just some advice and I was really happy about that, because I think that the younger generation are missing out on so much it's not being taught to them. So that was sort of next level for me and I was, yeah, just a bit taken back that there was that many people that were keen and the response we got and you got a massive amount as well, which I thought was like next level. I thought that was great.
Speaker 1:There's still people who got some passion out there I think it was like I got a lot out of it, because it was really good to see that there's still people coming into this industry that are passionate about it yeah and not just worried about going and smashing up a frame as quick as they can.
Speaker 1:So I'm excited about today because craig's actually put a list together and, uh, I actually think I'm going to learn a lot as well. But, um, mate, let's get into it. Like what, what do you got in that book over there? What are?
Speaker 2:we talking all right. Well, it's probably a bit random the way I put it together, but they're just as things come to my head. I'll put some notes down and we'll just put them as a topic and then we'll start to talk about them so, basically, it doesn't, doesn't matter what type of trader you are, that you're going to learn something from this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a lot of this is based around carpentry, but other things will come from it no doubt as well. So my first carver off the rank is carver random stones. So it's just a stone that you buy that we use for finishing the edges of our fibro shooting. So when you're cutting fibro a lot of us cut these days sheets is, you know, cut with dustless cutters and all those sort of things and you get that burr on there. So that burr edge it's going to go into your plastic molding strips. So the carburettum stone is just like a similar to a oil stone, rectangular size stone, but we're using that to put the bevel back on there, put an aris on it, you can straighten edges with it and those sort of things. So it just gives a nice edge that you can work with it and you're not fighting it when you're putting it back into your H-moles and those sort of things.
Speaker 1:A lot of like. I've never heard of it. I was always taught in my apprenticeship you've got a bit of Besser block or a bit of brick or something and you rubbed your edges with that, but a lot of I would imagine a lot of young carpenters even plasterers, like people that are working with billboard and fc sheets, aren't even doing anything.
Speaker 2:Uh, no, they wouldn't be. So the proper random stone will work, the same as a besser block, the main one I've got in my trailer. I've probably had for over 30 years and, like a besser block, will wear it, doesn't?
Speaker 2:it doesn't wear so where do you buy them? Um, just at your tool place or bunning sell them. Yeah, never heard of it, and Buddy's actually made one now that's got a handle on it where mine is just like a rectangular block basically. Yeah, but my main one that I've got like I bought a couple of others that the boys use and they drop them and they get cracked and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:But my main one I've had for over 30 years worn, has been a bit worn. It doesn't get different than the day I bought it. Well, there you go, man. I've learned something straight off the bat. But um, it's those little details in that that makes a craftsman, because, like I see it, with new, new carpenters that we put on like they don't, they cut the sheets and they don't even do anything with it. That's right, at a bare minimum. I was kicked in the ass during my apprenticeship, like at a bare minimum. You got your chisel out, you turned your chisel on the edge and you put your thumb on it and you dragged your chisel along it and you took the edge off it yeah, that's right, you always cleaned your edges before you put them into a joint well, it's making the next step easier.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so if you, if you cut it and it's all bird, you're going to fight it, putting it into your h mold where you beat us in joints. So you're just trying to take that bit of finesse and a bit of care, but there's a reason for that.
Speaker 1:So it makes it simpler to do the next stage of it and, like you say, like these days you're seeing a lot of people cutting it with bloody dust or saws or grinders, like people cut it with a grind, then just smash the side off with a grinder and a lot of time I know like I've been to quite a few jobs and you can tell that people have done it with a grinder because they don't give a fuck, they they're rushing it, they smash the grinder along the edge of it and the grinder's gone too far, like wider than the joining strip. When you look along the joining strip you see all these little grooves from the grinder.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it shows up in the paint when it's painted. Yeah, accentuates it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no mate.
Speaker 2:Very good one Straight off the bat. What about nailing soffit sheets or nailing fibro? Uh, how many times you see it get nailed and the nails are flush. So if you actually read the james hardy specification, the back of the nail should be firm against the sheet. But the head should be proud, because if you punch the head in, potentially it can pop and come down.
Speaker 1:Well, as soon as you punch well, I think this is an important one, like people should be reading the specifications and the installed documents of any fc product they're using. Yes, because some of them say that you can punch them in, but most of them say that, yeah, like you say, the back of the nail, the underside of the nail, needs to be firm to the sheeting. Yep, but because as soon as you punch that head in flush, most like that's void your warranty. That's correct, yeah, so anything ever goes wrong or the sheet falls down or the client has a claim it's going to come back to the builder?
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%. So, like you said, read the specification. But a lot of your external claddings and your soffits and that the head stays proud. Yeah, available in things that goes in, because obviously it's going to get said or told or whatever the case may be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. But I think with ones like this, it's important that tradies understand this, because I've had it in my time where an architect's been on site telling me that they want the nails punched in Yep, and I know, like back in the day I was like whatever, like if I don't do what you say, I don't get paid, but these days I'm like man, I'm not doing it. That's right. The specification says this is what has to happen, and so that is what I. If I don't do what you say, I don't get paid, but these days I'm like man, I'm not doing it. The specification says this is what has to happen, and so that is what I'm doing, so it's on me not on you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%. I know of a case. It was about 10 years ago. The builder put there was a failure on a cladding sheet on the outside so they brought James Hardy out, they did the inspection, everything else, and he had too many nails and it failed. So he didn't get warranty because he'd put extra nails in. Yeah, and I don't know what the extent was, whether it was five or 20 extra nails, but there's extra nails, yeah. So he didn't get the warranty on it and he had to foot the builder. I know he'd do all the work but replace the sheets up as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think this is an important part, because a lot of contractors don't give a shit about this sort of thing because they just know that it's on the builder. Yeah, but this is why it's so important for builders to be reading specifications, not relying on their contractors to just do it correctly, because, yeah, if push comes to shove, it's back on the builder and the builder will have to pay for it?
Speaker 2:Oh, definitely, and just print off the install specs and give it to your guys. So we often do that on site. Yeah, bring it up on the phone, tablet, whatever. Go through it, read it together. Yeah, and it's not just me telling them. Then there's actually something to back it up. This is what needs to be done that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we had a painter starting a job today. It's our first job in four or five years that we've used linear board and four or five years that we've used linear board, and so most of our claddings are always hardwood timbers or some sort of chamfer boards or things. So it's just common practice that the the painter gaps everything. But you're actually not meant to get or yeah, there's no, we rung the ref about and you're actually not supposed to gap the underside of a linear board. Yeah, but it is in their specification that before the wall's painted, you you can run your eye over it and if there are any boards that are wobbly or bowed, you can put pressure on it with your palm and you can use a stainless steel Seabrad to pull it in and face fix it. Yeah, so yeah, like I see so many jobs, like we just thought, oh yeah, the paint is starting, it'll get the whole job. But we thought, oh shit, we better just check on that, right.
Speaker 2:But um, yeah, you gotta read your specifications and your install manuals so important. Yeah, yeah, it doing the job properly, but you're covering yourself as well. Yeah, if there's a problem on it, you've done everything else, but what? The bus you're doing?
Speaker 1:yep, yeah, right all right, what's up next?
Speaker 2:um, the next one I've got down is nailing. Safoot shoots not only only the nails but the actual action. So many guys can't underhand nails and they can't get it out of their wrists. They're always trying to do the overhand. So that's another one that sort of gets me going a bit. So it's just, I suppose, learning hammer techniques. We have another thing that on the job if I start coughing it means that someone's choking their hammer. The boys know that. They start looking around pretty quick because if you're using your hammer, make it work for you, don't you work for it? And it's like I try and teach the apprentices and stuff that using the hammer, it comes from the elbow and it's a flick of the wrist. You see too many guys trying to nail out of their elbow and they complain their elbow's sore because of the action they're using. Let the hammer do the work, let the weight of it do the dropping.
Speaker 2:You shouldn't feel the weight of your hammer in your elbow. No, no, but so many guys nail from their elbow so the elbow bends but the flick is in the wrist and that looks after your joints and everything else. But yeah, that underhand nailing, a lot of guys just can't get that. It takes practice but it's so much easier and quicker and if you've got pine battens that are a bit springy you can get a lot more accurate and force in your hit.
Speaker 1:Yep, I don't know if it's on your list there, mate, but tying in with that, I can't stand people that can't feed nails through their fingers.
Speaker 2:That's further on my list about rolling nails. Yeah, yeah, through their fingers. That's further on my list.
Speaker 1:Yeah, about rolling nails yeah, yeah, like you should be able to. Yeah, like I got cane when I was an apprentice mate, like and then. But like we would I've talked about this a lot of time, it's just me and my boss like we would. Uh, he would have generally enough planks, like a lot of the new homes we did with low set um 180, 242 meters. So, like with the planks and the and the um stools that we had on the back of the ute, we could pretty much always do half the house.
Speaker 1:So, like you would in the first thing in the morning, like you get all the gear out, you run your stools, run your planks around, yeah, put your levels across, flick your lines, get it, get everything cut, get all your framing done. But and then, when it come to soffit sheets, like we would basically cut every sheet for the side of the house, we would go along the brickwork, mark the lengths of sheets, do a storybook for all of our sheets, all the ins and outs around the brickwork, all the vent sheets above windows, and then lay it out. And two of us would basically start at one corner of the house and just go. You put the sheet up. Both of you would get a nail in it, one guy would put the cover strip on and while he's doing that you would finish putting the last three or four nails in that sheet. But you didn't look at anything. Like you put your hand in your pocket while you're still looking up. You picked up half a dozen nails and while you're finishing one nail off, you're rolling the other nail in your fingers.
Speaker 1:It's ready to go. Go bang straight up. Next nail's in, finish that. Like you just went along, like you weren't even looking at your hands or your pocket. And I turn up to site now and, one nail at a time, put it up yeah, next nail, next nail. Yeah, like there's efficiency there. Like you do that all day, every day. Like fuck, you've lost a.
Speaker 2:Like 30 minutes, lost a lot of time, yeah. So another one was that, um, do a lot of hand drives, a lot of thin frees, thick frees well, that's what I call them. So you're 3.15, 3.75, yeah. So you grab like a reasonable amount of handful and you look at them and you just pull all the ones that were heads down and turn them over. Yeah, so then you could just keep rolling out of your hand and before that nails finish being nailed, people wouldn't even know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1:Mate, the next one's in your hand, ready to go yeah, yeah, we used the 3.15 bullet heads for every like, all of our tack and all our temporary bracing on our frames, but when you're up on the roof like there's no, and I personally, I still think it's quicker.
Speaker 2:Well, we still do, yeah, so I call them thin threes and thick threes. Yeah, I've got oil containers in the trailer. They've got the tops cut out and part of the handle's still there, and then across the front is 50 mil, so two inch thin threes, thick threes, and then it goes back into soffit nails, connector nails and gun nails and across the back is all the gals. Yeah, and we still do all our braces because you can pull them back out. You haven't got to drive them home, you can pull them back out easy. And we're still doing trusses, tacking our trusses on, because you've got three or four guys doing trusses. I know these days you've got gas guns, battery guns.
Speaker 1:But I still think all your temporary bracing is quicker doing it like that. I think we've talked about this you have all your roof braces marked with your, already tacked, with your nails in it, and you'd lean them at certain positions around the frame and when you started standing trusses you'd just grab those braces, pull them up, smash a nail in. It was quick, it's nice and easy.
Speaker 2:But even if you've got to make an adjustment, you've got five mil, eight mil nails sticking out. You can pull it up. You can pull it up, you can move it, you can tap it back in again. Put a second one if you have to. Yeah, as soon as you use a gun, you don't get it back very easily and then you start disturbing everything else. Yep, so, yeah, we do a lot of that, yeah. So while we're on this topic, another one of my pets hate is people that pull gun nails apart hand drives but the people don't even.
Speaker 1:And look, I'll put my hand up. My business doesn't currently because there's guys on all different sites. Well, I shouldn't say a couple of my tradies do. But when I was on the tools full time and all my apprenticeship, all my subbing years, like you said, you had all your nails in the ute. And the day you started the roof truss you went to the ute. You got a pocket full of three-inch nails. You had gun nails in one side, loose nails in the other side.
Speaker 2:Clean your bag out for whatever task you're doing, take the hand drives out, put the soffit nails in, whatever you need to do. Yeah, see, another thing. People don't realize, or they probably just don't care about it, but a gun nail is what they call a coagulator nail. So it's got the glue on it, so it's designed to be shot quickly with force. So it glues the nail in because it's quite a thin nail and they don't have any sort of ribs or stuff on them, so the glue actually holds them in and they don't hold as good if you hand drive them to a hand-dried nail you're right.
Speaker 1:Well, there you go. I learned something else and that's why they called coagulated. Yeah, yeah, the um. We've talked about this um. So one of my jobs as an apprentice mate, my boss had an empty bucket and like he would pick up, like when we're roofing or whatever, like we'll denail embracers. You'd, every nail you pulled out would go in your bag and at the end of the day you'd empty your bag and you'd put all the these nails into this bucket. Yeah and yeah, it was on rainy days and shit. That was one of my jobs, like I had to go through that bucket and straighten all the nails out, yeah.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I don't like pulling gun nails apart. I'm like so the boys have got hand drives, yeah, and it takes a while to get their mindset to change because they're just so used to doing it. It's actually more expensive than going and buying five kilos of hand-dried nails.
Speaker 1:Yeah, really good point. Really good point. Like I said, anyone listening to this podcast, if you are listening to these things as we're going through them and you want to know more information, or it's not making sense to you, whatever, and you've got questions, make sure you reach out to Craig or I, because it is really really important that these little skills don't get lost because that's what this is about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you want other people to learn from it, from this, um might just trigger a thought pattern or it might be a different question, but this might trigger something for them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm started yeah, don't just become a lazy chippy that has a fucking cordless gun hanging off your belt and uses it for everything. I can't stand it like there's a time and a place for everything, like, yes, yeah, cordless guns have their place, but it shits me that people are using for everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, sometimes it's sort of the point. Why do they even have a hammer? You know because because they just don't want to use it. But you become a better tradesman and craftsman if you understand how to use your tools properly yeah, how they perform, and use them how they're meant to be, then you become better. At the end of the day, 100% and all right, mate, let's hear you going. What's next?
Speaker 2:Okay, another little tip is um different scenarios. Let's say you're doing timber fascia and you're nailing your miters together and you're using, you know, galvanized nails. So when you go to put that nail in, I will turn the nail backwards, hit the head in about three mil, turn my nail over and drive it in. It does two things it takes the point off your nail, countersinks the head so that when you put it in it doesn't split your timber. And I use that in lots of places. When you've got a softer timber that you're putting a hand, drive through it and it prevents the timber from splitting yeah, so it's like a blunt now, like it's like when you're doing cypress.
Speaker 1:You use your blunt now so that split same sort of thing yeah so there's lots of places where you'll use that method.
Speaker 2:but you're seeing sinking the head in because it's usually looking really good. You drive the last bit and then you get a split out of it and that's because the head going into the timber and because the nails got a point on it, it's made that wedge all the way through and the head's just enough to split the timber. If you do it prior to starting, very rarely will you ever split the timber.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very good, learned something else.
Speaker 2:I like it. Are you kidding? Else I like it, okay. Um, what else are we handling? We're uh, we're jumping all over the place on some of my lists here, but that's okay do you want a pen mate?
Speaker 1:cross them out. Make sure you don't miss anything.
Speaker 2:You got some good ones on there, um I think we talked about this once before, but, um, I've written it down again folding wedges and this. This came up recently because I've just put a a new guy on, about four or five weeks ago, yeah, and asked him to cut me some folding wedges. It was a little bit stumped but I didn't go off, come back with this wedge that was like 80 mil long and about 40 mil to zero, and so then I we went through it and talked about it. But how important, uh, folding wedges are when you're just trying to you know door jams. We were actually doing boxing on concrete, we put pegs in and we needed to to it over, so we just used the folding wedges scenario for that. But I think that that's so.
Speaker 2:Run people through folding wedges. So a folding wedge is a long, thin wedge where there's two of them that oppose each other. So by putting them together, you're keeping the same parallel thickness. You're not just. A wedge is one-sided and it tends to put a twist in it. Where you do a folding wedge, it will push it across evenly yeah, yeah, so you're cutting.
Speaker 1:I'd like to hear how you've done this. But like I was taught um like, so fit outs we. We cut all our own wedges like I've never bought them. But can you buy wedges now? I think you can, can't?
Speaker 2:you can buy wedges in buckets I I know the makita made some years ago. They had a little teeth on them and then I stopped making them. I don't know if you still get them or not.
Speaker 1:So look, there's heaps of this one as well. So if you're a carpenter out there and you're doing internal fit outs and you're not wedging your door jams, then you need to fucking learn how to be a craftsman. You should be going through and wedging everything and gluing your wedges, but we did the same. We used wedges for lots of different things decking, boxing but the majority was always doing fit-out work. That's where the biggest majority is. Yeah, but we would cut well, my boss, and actually this definitely doesn't meet workplace health and safety but we would use either there'd always be generally off cuts of uh, pre-prime, like um fascia or door jam, um garage door jam and that sort of material around, and we would cut it into like 200 mil lengths yep, and then turn it around, um like, put the grain to the back of the saw, stop against the fence yep, yeah, and then use that to cut our wedges. So our wedges are generally always the boss used to want them 200mm long.
Speaker 2:So you're cutting that right through. Yeah, yeah, okay, so what is similar? But I'll have a longer bit of timber and then cut the wedges out, and then there's still a series of wedges left behind, and then turn it sideways and then cut it through.
Speaker 1:yeah, so your hands further away from the saw so you're, you're, that's why we were using always wider bits of fascia and stuff, because, like, if they're 230, whatever long, like you could pretty much cut halfway across it before you. Oh, I said to me yeah, yeah, but yeah, that's how we would do them, and then all we'd use um, like a lot of time we're doing fit out, it'd be just out of your doorjamb material. Yeah, can you explain again how you're doing it?
Speaker 2:So I've got a long, let's just say I've got a bit of timber that's 500mm long, yeah, push the end grain towards the fence, yeah, oh. And you're standing back behind it, yeah, yeah. So then I'm, you know, cutting the wedges, but only every second one comes out, yeah. So then you turn it sideways, yeah, against the fence, and then cut across it, yeah, and then you've got the other half of them, yeah, no, I get that. Yeah, do that. And then you might just cut 20 mil off, so it's got a square end again, yeah, and then you go again, so you're just keeping your hand further away from the saw.
Speaker 2:Yeah man so this is variable mate. So when I was an apprentice and went to um our TAFE, there was 10 in our class and they told us that um seven of them potentially would lose a finger. Well, I'd like to say, to date I still have all 10, but I do know a couple of guys that have lost some. Yeah, Not from work but yeah, that's right, yours is different related, but yeah, so obviously being conscious and keeping further away from the saw, yeah, yeah, but wedges, like people, just I don't.
Speaker 1:It's like we talk about all the time. You got to know the why. Yeah, most people just smashing it out and don't understand the why. Like, why are you putting wedges in your door jams?
Speaker 2:Well, I think that's why are you putting wedges in your door jams? Well, I think that's why I I said folding wedges and not just wedges, because the wedge you slide in the door jam and it's really only packing at the outside point. When the folding wedge goes in, you know you're keeping a parallel packer all the way across and you can bring it out by tapping the two wedges together. You can bring it out or releasing and taking it back. So there, you got full support all the way across.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's sort of why I thought I'd raise the topic on a folding wedge yeah, because with your um, when you're installing your doors, like you really should only be putting the attack down the top and bottom, one in the middle, and then using your wedges to to get it all perfectly straight, shouldn't you? And then, and then, once it's perfectly straight, nail and glue your wedges. Yeah, yeah and Yep, and then cut the excess off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, mm, yep. So that was generally something we would do. On the first, one of the guys would be installing the door jams. I'd cut all the wedges, give them to him. He would go around and install them, smash them all in, glue them, nail them and by the time you worked your way around the house, you went and did all your window architraves nine to ten. The glue would have gone off a little bit and then you'd have to run around with a handsaw. These days everyone's using saversaws or multi-tools. You'd run around with a handsaw, you'd trim all the edges of wedges off and then do your architraves around your doors and window or doors.
Speaker 2:I use thin frees to put them in place. Yeah, so you put them in, you nail them in. You can leave 10 mil or so hanging out, put all your wedges in and then that still gives you the ability that they'll hold from moving sideways, but it still slides in and out on that nail. Once the wedge is all set in position, nail it home, punch it off. Yeah, probably old school that you guys want to just shoot it on with a finish gun, but it's stronger and gives the ability that we can still adjust it a bit throughout setting the door up.
Speaker 1:Well, we've, I was. Up until recently it's always been t-nails. Yep, like I, I don't, um, and I know like apparently they're not making t-nails anymore no, they're not which. Um, I think it's terrible. So, yeah, we we might have to go back to the thin threes, because I don't believe a finishing nail is strong enough to be holding a door jam.
Speaker 1:No, it's like people are using just like brads. Or some people use the thicker gauge angle nails but you've got a door flapping around the breeze and just relying on those bloody nails, like there's not a lot holding a door in.
Speaker 2:No, you've got to rely on when they slam. You know it might not simply be someone, do it, the window could be open. The door slams, you know, like how's it going to stay in place, start moving and those sort of things? Yeah, so, talking about nails and finish nails, we're doing a job at the moment where we've got internal VJ just your craftwood VJ, easy craft going in. Yeah, so when you read the specs on that, you're supposed to nog it at 700 mil centers horizontally. So we just use a bit of pine batten On your joins.
Speaker 1:No, no, or everywhere, everywhere, even if your studs are 450 centers.
Speaker 2:Correct, you're still supposed to nog horizontally and glue it off.
Speaker 1:We glue it all. I've never read the 450 centers, 700.
Speaker 2:700 centers horizontally, horizontally, yeah, yeah, so you're supposed to nog it horizontally throughout the shoot. So we put that in with pine batten. So, as you know, trying to shoot pine batten with a framing gun, it splits and goes everywhere. So we put that in with a finish gun.
Speaker 2:And uh, the new guy I said to start with recently he was doing some and I went and had a look at what he did and I think he had, you know, two in the face and one in the top, and I said to him no, I want more nails. And then when I broke it down to him and said to him well, if you put one framing nail in there, take the thickness of that compared to the thickness of your finish nail. We need six or seven finish nails. So put four in the top, four in the face, three in the top. Punch them in, because I just got it and I could twist it and just explain to him. You know, was it just? You don't know what, you don't know? Yeah, but just sort of telling my logic behind it. I'm happy to use a finish gun, but we need to compensate to get enough amount of nail in there for holding tower.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but um, well, there you go. I learned something else. Well, I've never like we've just done recently. I didn't read about the 700 mil center, but um, like your prime, like on external walls, you got to prime the back of your vj before you put it on yep like I know. I'm sure there's a shitload of chippies out there that aren't doing that oh, they think the front's prime bit of glue.
Speaker 2:We, we did a job 12 months ago. We took on from somebody else. We'd done work for this client before. They needed something done really quick, quick and cheap, and I'll explain to you later. That doesn't go together. And they didn't even put glue on them, they just put pins in them. We had to take them off and redo it. And she was horrified because she'd bought the material and we had to strip it off and redo it. And she was horrified because she'd bought the material and we had to strip it off and redo it. And some got damaged and those things. But there's virtually no glue, but a few dobs here and there. Yeah, so yeah. Once again, it comes back to installation specifications.
Speaker 1:You've got to read your specifications. Like seriously, guys, if you want to call yourself a tradie or a craftsman, then you need to do this shit. What else we got, mate?
Speaker 2:Another one I got on here while we're sort of talking around doors is hinge positions of internal doors, and I know a lot of people these days make them the same distance top and bottom. But this is the way I was taught is that you come down 200 for the top hinge and you come up 250 for the bottom, and it's got to do with your peripheral vision. So when you look at it, it looks balanced. If you actually see a door that it's exactly the same distance top and bottom, it actually looks out of balance. I don't know, it's just a personal thing, but that's just something I was taught and I just instilled it in all my guys and that's the way we do it, but it just, for some reason, it looks better. Yeah, there's nothing right or wrong about it. That's how.
Speaker 1:I was taught 200 down, 250 up, but to be honest, I didn't understand the reasoning for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's got to do with when you're standing back from the door and the vision of the top hinge and the bottom hinge. The way our eyes work, it looks right. When you see one where they make them exactly the same, because a lot of these days it's just there's two under top and bottom, yeah, Whenever I see that, to me that just looks totally wrong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, well, not enough hinges, mate. Like seems to go over 2100 doors should instantly have three hinges on it. Yep, so many. I hate walking through jobs. And yeah, they haven't got three hinges on doors, it's just come on, guys, what are you doing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, once again, I don't know the why, the reason behind it. Yeah, sharpening chisels. That's another one I've got written down here. Sharpening anything, mate, sharpening anything. But there's a reason why they're done on a grinder, a bench grinder, and not a four-inch grinder.
Speaker 1:Okay, that shits me when you see people sharpening their chisels. My team don't do it. They uh couple. My guys have, like actually mine's in here somewhere in the shed, the um, like you've probably got one. What's the good brand? Bloody, yeah, um. Spinning wheels with the water wheel? Yeah, the water wheel, yeah, like a good one.
Speaker 2:Six, six, seven hundred eight hundred bucks I think mine's about 1100 bucks or something. Yeah, yeah. But I've got a bench grinder in the back of my trailer that swings out and then we just get a container and put water in it, but it's all set up for sharpening chisels on the site. As soon as I start sharpening my chisels, all my boys drop all their chisels on the guard of the trailer. But having a hollow ground chisel so that from your beveled edge going up is hollowed, it's the way it brings the shavings of the timber and it actually flows better.
Speaker 2:Cutting the grain, when you're sharpening it straight on a four-inch grinder you've got a bevel on the end but it's flat, it's on the same plane. So it's really important to get the hollow ground because it makes them work better. And then, depending on the timber you're using, the softer the timber and the the more open the grain, the the pitch. So, about 30 degrees, 33 degrees is a good average. But if you're doing, say, red cedar, you drop it down and and make it flatter so that it cuts through the grain better and not tear it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then obviously, when you're honing a chisel like a lot of guys just can't fathom how that works the honing of them. Um, it changes by about three degrees, yeah, um, so you've got your, your main grind and then the little pitch on the end and then stropping it. So I'll actually strop a chisel in the palm of my hand. I'll put a little bit of turps in the palm of my hand and strop it on that. You can do it a bit of leather, but taking that burr off the front and the back, the difference that makes to be able to cut timber nice and clean is incredible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is the difference that makes in it well, that's definitely a lost art mate, because it's throwaway society people just like a lot of. Unless you buy a really good quality set of stanley chisels or something like and pay good money for them a lot of the cheaper ones the metal's just shit. Yeah, you can't sharpen them. They're garbage. That's right. Like I've still got some of my original chisel sets up there in the leather bloody binder In the roll and they've been sharpened that many times. Some of the bloody main stems are only like 20mm long. Yeah, yeah, but it's good quality steel. But people just these days don't understand sharpening no well see, I've got like two sets of chisels.
Speaker 2:I've got the set that my parents bought when I started my apprenticeship which I use only for fix out work. That's all I get used for, yeah. And then I've got another set which I use for general work and obviously I've got a couple running my nail bag. Um, but, yeah, keeping them sharp and if you doing them properly it's a touch up, it's not like a big grind all the time, guys, just let them go until they look like their body serrated, yeah, and then it takes ages to do them.
Speaker 2:Um, so my oil stone doesn't get oil on it. Yeah, I use turps. Yeah, because turps evaporates where oil clogs up your stone. So over a period of time you can actually boil your stone in a drum on a fire and clean all the oil out of them yeah right and reuse them, yeah. So after time they get clogged up and they don't work properly, and so one of the reasons I like to use the turps is because you've got to keep putting it on but you see it evaporating away, so therefore your stone lasts a lot longer. So my stone I've got was my grandfather's when I started my apprenticeship. He gave it to me and I still use it today. It's in my trailer and gets used all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you look after it, all tools should last. If you're paying good quality money for good quality tools, you should have them for a very long time. Yeah, but it shits me. Mate with this throwaway world. Like right through my apprenticeship and my subcontracting days, uh, and in my early days, my business, like um, like I saw him, he was kevvy, like sharpen it. Like he drove around a little minibus yeah, all the all the seats have been ripped out. He had a bench down both sides and like he, literally you'd book him in, he'd rock up to your site and you would literally just dump all your leather like your, your circular saw blades yeah, so we I've got multiple of them, like somewhere in the shed here, somewhere in the shipping container. But, um, like we had a pouch for um circular saw blades, a pouch for um drop saw blades yep, a pouch for hand saws, a pouch for your chisels yep, like you would literally dump this pile of shit in this little minibus and then he would be on your job site for whatever an hour, two hours, three hours, sharpening all your tools, and that that would. You'd get that.
Speaker 1:We used to get that done, probably two, sometimes three times a year, maybe yes, and then the rest of the time was up to us to do maintenance. So, um, but like man, I got kicked in the ass. Like I was talking to my team about the other day, like when we're doing our wall framing and undercutting our plates halfway through so that when we get it finished you're not hitting the ground with a saw, and like, except for a couple of the older ones, they're all laughing at me. Like, oh, fuck it, we just use a saber saw. Like, yeah, like we used to go around and it taught you to hold your handsaw level, not bum down or toe down. And yeah, um, but yeah, so many people these days just don't, um, understand the importance of maintaining your tools.
Speaker 2:Oh well, I've got another note further back. Sharp tools work for you and they're safer. Where the blunt tool is harder to use and it's more dangerous, oh, you know. So if you talk, you know power saws. If you've got blunt blades, you're pushing that much harder. Yeah, especially with a battery gear. You're working your saw that much harder so it doesn't last as long, you don't get as good a cut and you run more risk of having an injury. Yeah, because it might bind up or kick back, whereas if you just change the blade, get a sharp blade and put in it, and because there's still people like saw doctors around the place they don't travel, but there's still saw doctors. You can drop saws off and get them sharpened, yeah, but just makes your life so much easier.
Speaker 1:The job better, looks after your tools longer yeah, oh, mate, they and they're like they'd sharpen them. They replace tips that they need to replace and like drill bits, like you sharpen all your drill bits. Like, yeah, everything lasted, but these days people just throw shit out. Well, I haven't bought one for a while, but can you even buy a good quality hand saw anymore? Is it just all throwaway?
Speaker 2:shit. Well, that's another note I've got in here so funny. You say that. So what? In my all my saws and I probably run about 10 in the trailer and I've got more in the shed one of those saws was bought brand new when I was an apprentice and I've still got it today. I've had to replace the handle on it. All my other saws have been bought at either the markets or secondhand stores. Taking them home you know a bit of steel, wool, wet and dry, whatever, cleaned them up, taking them to the saw doctor and had them resharpened and recut so you can actually repoint a saw yeah, so you can change it. A good quality saw, a good quality saw, yeah, spear and Jackson Diston, you know all those sort of things and like I and I play a tune on my saws when I get to work and that's how you can tell how good the steel is in them, but just using a good sharp saw.
Speaker 2:We were doing some stuff the other day and the boys have got these throwaway jobs and they're really short and I was explaining to them and giving a bit of a lesson to the new guy about using a hand saw and I just said to him there's no way I could do it because the stroke's too short. And I just said to him there's no way I could do it because the stroke's too short. And I was explaining to him about the length of your stroke. The longer you can make your stroke, the less cuts you have to make, the less you've got to work so hard and it does a better job. And because we were cutting obtuse miters and the saw would only cut so far and then we had to cut the rest of it out and trying to get their little saw to follow the line of the saw blade and everything else. And that's what I said to him.
Speaker 2:I said just go and find a couple of cheap ones and get them cleaned up, because when you're using the saw, if you've got a slightly rounded action, when you're cutting a lot of big timbers, you're cleaning out your saw dust I'll explain all that to him and using as much as your saw blade as possible instead of doing those pitiful short strokes all the time. Yeah, yeah, and it just does a better job, but it makes your life so much easier. Yeah, and once they understand why you're telling them that stuff and they understand how it works I didn't have a saw on site that day, but I showed them the other day and the penny drops, yeah, and they see. Yeah, I think those little disposals are great for plumbings. Cutting PVC pipe, that's about it, that's what I think they're good for. Or gyprock.
Speaker 1:Or gyprock, yeah, yeah, no, it's again. I just to me it's not just about doing a quality job. Your tools are just. Your tools are part of what makes you a tradesman or a trader.
Speaker 2:Tools are an extension of you, yeah, and I've known for years. You've got a new guy who'll come and start with you. All you've got to do is look at his tools. If he's got to pull off his toolbox out to find the chisel on the bottom of the toolbox, his work can't be any good because he doesn't have the quality tools or he's not looking after his tools. And the other thing I look at too is if they respect their tools. I respect my tools. If they don't care packing up and there's a hole that's empty, you know something's missing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, where it's all higgledy-piggledy no, you're throwing shit in bloody toolbox, you don't know where it is a A week later like oh, where did I use that last?
Speaker 2:Whereas at the end of the day it's really quick and easy. Yeah, awesome mate. Another little tip. Getting back to drill bits, do you know how to find the accurate pitch of your drill bit when you sharpen it? No, put two hexagonal nuts together and the gap in the middle, the V in the middle, is 135 degrees, and that's what your drill bit should be sharpened at. So obviously you taper it back. You know your leading edge and everything. But the actual point of the pitch is you put two X-axis and nuts together, put the drill bit in there. That's spot on. That's how you know you've got the right angle on both sides.
Speaker 2:And how do you know that? Oh no, some old bloke told me years ago. How do you know that? Oh no, some old bloke told me years ago.
Speaker 1:And so this old bloke's now telling other people and it works, you've tried that and that angle is good. Cutting, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yep, yeah. So you know, obviously, when you're doing steel, you know heavy, thick steel. You change it a bit or if it's really soft timbers, but majority of your drill bits are just going by, set off the shelf, that's what they are. Yeah, and they will work for 99% of stuff that we're trying to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, look, mate, there'll be so many tradies out there these days that just don't have a clue how to sharpen shit, and as soon as it's blunt, they'd be throwing good tools, good bits, in the bin. Yeah, you can sharpen Most drill bits, even shitty ones, you can sharpen.
Speaker 2:You can bring them back. Yeah, we've been on jobs where we've broken them and then I'll sharpen them for the boys. Yeah, and that's a lot of cutting back, but you can do it. Yeah, because it's a good long bit and I broke 30mm off the end of them. Yeah, you start buying 12, 14mm bits. They're not cheap. Yep, no, very good. Clogging rough sawn timbers. So if you're building decks and you've got rough sawn timber, so clogging out your bearers and your joists for getting consistency of height, you would have done that as an apprentice. We cut the bottoms out. Yeah, so setting up your guide on your saw, set up the fence, you know, if they're 150 mil being rough sawn, they could be anywhere from 148 to 152. Yeah, so you just set it up at 148 and do a little check on each end so that when it goes in place you've got a more consistent even height right the way across and then when you come to straighten them, it's a lot easier to run a planer over them.
Speaker 1:That's really so many people wouldn't know that, mate, because lL shit just turns up on site these days and it's pretty consistent.
Speaker 1:But you should always be checking the thicknesses of the timber and if you're. Well, my opinion is, if any structure at all you're building externally should be hardwood Correct, it definitely shouldn't be used, even if they're LRSP treated external grade. My personal opinion is that you should not be using it externally, but use your hardwood and, like you said, hardwood is very rarely the same size. Yeah, that's right. So I'm sure you're the same. So we were always taught, like you're starting on the site, you would split the pack and you would quickly just run your taper and you'd find the smallest piece and yeah, from that smallest piece that's what you'd work all your thicknesses out.
Speaker 2:Yeah and yeah. From that smallest piece, that's what you'd. Work all your thicknesses out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so they all go in the same just makes it so much easier to get it straighter. Less less planing, more consistent. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because most people it shits me when you see it, like I hate, like you see all these things on instagram where people finish a floor system, they slide the level across it, but a few of them, you, you see them, they're just flat out with the planer, like planing the tops off, like I don't know. I'm keen to hear your opinion on this. I don't think you should be planing the top, maybe a little bit to take some bows out, yeah, but you should be checking your timber for the, the, finding the um narrowest board, yep, and then housing, like, like you said, checking all your ends out so that where it sits on the bear, it's taken out of the bottom, not out of the top. Yeah, that's right. I agree with that totally yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So really the the straightening or the planning of the top is to take a few little humps out that are between your, your bearer points. Yeah, um, this deck we did recently we actually had um three points, so pole plate of the wall, middle bearer, outside bearer. So the middle is a little bit more difficult, but mark it all out, you know, yeah, run one on each end, run a string line through so we can measure all the middles and then check them all out to suit. But we had to um cog some lvl's recently on a job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because they had too much variance in them yeah, right, well, it pays to check everything, I guess, doesn't it? Yeah, my, like I was. I don't know if it's right or wrong, but, um, my boss was always of the opinion that you shouldn't be playing in the tops off your timber, because as soon as you're playing the tops off your timber, you're exposing it to moisture and like if especially if it's a treated hardwood like you're taking all that treatment off the top where it's where it's most important. So that treatment should be on top, like obviously these days you're using uh deck protectors and those types of things, but to me, to keep that treatment layer on top is is really important well it is on hardwood, especially because it only goes in a couple of mil.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and if you're not cogging it out to to keep it the same plane, and you're planning three, four, five mil out of it, you've lost all your your treatment. Yeah, and then if you are doing that, and even your cut ends, you should be reapp all your treatment. Yeah, and then if you are doing that and even your cut ends, you should be reapplying your treatment back on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like for sure. Well, that definitely doesn't happen all the time, but like you should have those cans of spray and you shouldn't do it Like again reading the install guys, like all cut ends, plain timber, like you should be reapplying yeah that's what we try and do and, as you said, there's the odd time it doesn't get through, but then 99% of the time, if we're doing external, it's getting some sort of paint Primer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a primer on it, whether that be a clear product or a paint product. Yeah, so probably on that note. So we use oil-based primer for 99% of everything we do externally.
Speaker 1:Even on your pre-primed pines, balustrades and things.
Speaker 2:That's a topic we'll touch on in a minute. That's another one. Yeah, so for the oil-based primer it's always a two-coat system. Our first coat will have about 5% turps, 7% turps in the first coat. So it gets a light sand or an aris or whatever it needs to have on it. That gets applied, so the turps actually makes it draw and penetrate into the timber. So now your paint is actually trapped in the grain and not on top of it.
Speaker 1:That's old school. We do that on all of our jobs. Most people would not have a clue.
Speaker 2:They're just opening the tin of paint and slapping it on and then it might get a light sand because it'll all furze up and everything else you know off that first coat and then the next coat that goes on is straight oil base. Now, depending on the Talk to your rep, Read your.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely, that is old school. We still do it on most of our stuff, but I know that well, we have spoken to some reps and they're like, no, you shouldn't be putting the turps in it. But it works. If you don't put turps in it it does not sink in, especially the hardwood.
Speaker 2:Well, here's a good example. It was about four years ago. We did a job where we put a big deck on the back, had 140 square Merville posts. They were painted, had a big sandwich panel roof over the top. During the construction the posts started to split the laminations so it was opening up. So I spoke to my timber rep and then the ITW rep, where the posts come from, came to site. The deck was about a meter off the ground.
Speaker 2:The first thing he did was put his head under the deck to look at the end grain of the post. Because we'd painted all the checks and the end grain, They'd all had the two coat system of the way we did the oil based primer and they already had their first coat of top coat on there. And because we'd done that system, we got full warranty on those posts. And he said to me if you hadn't have done that? And I explained to him about how I'd done the turps with the oil base and everything else and he was rapt, he was impressed. He said, yeah, we can't fault your system, that you've done. And so we got warranty on the posts. If it wasn't for that or that end grain or that check hadn't been painted. We were getting zilch, yeah, and that was the first thing you did. We just looked at the end of that post to see whether it was sucking moisture up in the bottom of the post or not yeah, well, again, a lot of people don't prime shit like.
Speaker 1:They just think that they don't understand the why. Like um, you've got to keep moisture out of timber yeah but you, you might have it in there somewhere else. But another trick of yours is you wrap your post with plastic, don't you? With Glad Wrap.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, explain that one. So the reason behind it is it holds the moisture so it builds like a little ecosystem. So we'll do our post. We'll prime them, give them a sand, put them up, put the beams in whatever we've got to do and then just go to Coles and buy a 100-meter roller, glad wrap and start at the top and fully wrap them up, or start at the bottom to work your way up and wrap them up. And what it does is on certain days you'll see, there's a little bit of humidity in there, so it reduces the shrinking and cracking, especially on posts that are pointing towards the afternoon sun, because you're keeping the moisture in there and they shrink at a slower rate because of the moisture consistency and we get great results out of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Just a shitload of plastic that goes back in the garbage. Well, unfortunately, yeah. But timber is a funny one. You've got to look after it because it does get affected a lot by humidity, moisture in the air. Well, it's a living, breathing product.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we might have it as a bit of timber, but as a tree. So it still has movement. And that's something that you've got to understand is that even though you've cut it down and milled it, it still will expand and contract. So you're trying to work on the parameters and minimize how much movement you have. So the more you can seal it and make it hold its, retain its moisture and all those sort of things, the better off it is. Yeah, definitely so. Pre-primed timbers yeah, so what's your take on a piece of pre-primed timber? So the priming on the timber, what's it for?
Speaker 1:Look, I'm not a fan of pre-primed timber, but we have to use it. These days, in a lot of scenarios, like you're beating on your soffits and a lot of your decking, handrails and those types of things, there is definitely a lot of areas. I refuse to use it. We pay extra for hardwood. I won't use a pre-primed timber post. No, me either. Well, look, I don't know a lot about it. The little bit I know is that it's really only a temporary product. It's only there to protect the timber until it gets to site and then it's up to us to make sure we prime it again. Correct.
Speaker 2:So your pre-primed timber is transport primer? Yeah, so it's to retain the timber's moisture from manufacturer until it gets to site.
Speaker 1:So not only should you cut it and prime your ends, but you should sand the timber and prime it again yeah, I've had arguments with painters mate, that try and tell me that they need two coats because it's it's already primed me too.
Speaker 2:Me too, yeah, but it's a, it's a transport primer. That's purely what it's for. Yeah, it's to hold the timber stable until you get it to utilize it. So we will give it a light sand, depending on the size of the job. What we're doing, the painter might come in and do it, or we might do it ourself, but bare minimum. Let's just say we're doing a hand roller that's got pickets in it. The ends and the bottoms will all be done so that they could then do the rest of it from that point on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%, we do the same thing. And priming is something that I'm on my team's back all the time, like I tell them like, put it on thick, like when you're putting paint on end grain. I don't want to turn up to site and still be able to see the end grain. And if you've got to hit your brush on the sides and knock the runs off, then so be it. But yep, um, and if you have to, before you go and nail it into the handrail, give it another hit, but you cannot get enough primer on the end grain.
Speaker 2:No, so as end grain, in that case we might do three coats. Yeah, you know, two coats are most things, but that's the thing would get three coats. Yeah, as you said, it needs to be sealed and I don't know how many times you get called to go and do a job somewhere and someone's handrail it's got normal bright finish nails in the pickets and no paint. And the people are like, oh, this cost us $10,000 five years ago and it's you know, can you repair it? And it's like, no, I can't repair it, you've got to take it out and redo it.
Speaker 1:And you feel for them but it's just because someone you poke it with your finger and your finger goes through it. Yeah, it's all rotted out and everything else. So another one with the pre-primed is. I'm assuming a lot of people probably won't know this one. But if the house is getting painted what the company classes a dark color and this, well, it doesn't just apply to pre-prime, it applies to a lot of front, like external doors, now timber doors and windows, but you actually have to use a different primer. But if you're painting a house of dark colour and you're using pre-prime timber for anything, even cover buttons over FC sheeting, they actually have to be primed with a heat-reducing primer before you apply your, your normal primer and your other coats of paint and you can also get heat reducing paint in those dark colors now too yeah, yeah, like they'll.
Speaker 1:uh, if like and again, I don't even know how we come across this one like it's a lot like five, six years ago, but uh, actually I think it might have been my suit was a todd um was reading the specs and bought it up and we had a discussion with the painter and now it's become a stand in all our jobs. But yeah, there was something in the fine print that, yeah, if there's ever a warranty claim on pre-primed timbers and they come out and it's painted a dark color and you can't prove that you've followed their priming process, there's no warranty on it. That and you can't prove that you've followed their priming process. Yeah, there's no warning on it. No, that's right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a lot to know. Yeah, there's a lot to know. Yeah, definitely. So this one probably goes back to before we had compound mitersaws. You know, just got the old Makita drop saw but when you're doing a lot of things but you know, skirting or even moldings and stuff, and you wanted to get that little undercut so your miter might go together, but it's touching at the back and not the front, so just laying your your pencil on the on the saw bench, yeah, you know, just to be able to elevate that little bit, yeah, and then just sort of be able to get a bit of an undercut on it. So, even though we've got compounding miter saws, I still do that because it's probably a habit, but it's just, it's quick and easy just to get that little bit of a taper back on your cut lines I'll uh, put my hand up, mate, like I haven't.
Speaker 1:Well, the fit out on the current house we're living in two years ago is the last um fit out I've done, but, and I still did it then. But I was always taught that you do. You undercut your miters on your skirtings and things like yeah, yeah, especially where you um like not so much on a big wall but like you get around a kitchen area or little nibs where the plasters are feathered the corners out a little bit and you're you're blowing it out like your corner is not a true 90 degrees. Yep, so yeah, always you might cut one at 45, but the other one might be cut. It could be anything, might be 43, might be 46, but yeah, you cut them so they're tight. You don't just cut them at 45 and the front's opened up and oh well, fuck, I cut it at 45. That's what it is.
Speaker 2:You adjust your miter to make sure all your joints are tight and go back to the saw if you have to and make the adjustment and put the glue in there. Yeah, so talking about skirting and other places, I do it too, but generally anywhere that's sort of that finished timber. I know we don't do much timber fascia these days, but this little bit happens on that miter. So we talked the last time about arising timber, why we arise it so the paint sticks. So on your skirting it comes together. You've got a sharp miter, so I'll use the flat of my chisel out of my nail bag and put it against the corner and tap it with my hammer and roll it around and actually put a little rounded edge on the mitre of everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you want to get that same little bevel that you have on a bit of DAR. Yes, I was the same. That was literally the last thing you'd do. You'd finish the fit out, clean the job out, sweep it all out and then you'd run around the house with your chisel, tapping it on the skirting, taking all your sharp edges off. Take, tapping it on the skirting, taking all your sharp edges off, take all the sharp edges off.
Speaker 2:It doesn't break as easy. It paints better, yeah, and it's just a little trick and it doesn't take long. But you can also sort of close those miters a little bit if you need to as well. Yeah, you know, you might have a little fine line there. It'll bring them back together, tighten them up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I don't know if I'm just a very particular person, but they're the little things that I believe finish a job off. It shits me when you walk around a job and you can, like a lot of people, think that paint hides things or paint will fix it, paint will finish it. Your joints should be in your timber. Work should be as if. My personal opinion is that everything should be getting done as if it's not getting painted, as if it's been stained. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you should be aiming for perfection. Yeah, don't be expecting that the paint is going to come along and gap things, bog things, patch things.
Speaker 2:I think, unfortunately, we have this attitude that she'll be right, the plaster will fix it, she'll be right. The painter will fix it, she'll be right. Painter will fix it, she'll be right. The next, the tiler will fix it. I had this discussion with um, a guy, yesterday. He's an ex-tiler and we're talking about frames and now I say to my team our frames will be covered, but they'll be seen by the electrician, the plumber, um, your leading guys for any communication, your aircon, all those guys see your frames. Owners will see you any few times when they walk through. When the house is finished, no one sees it. But you want to be able to sleep well at night and have pride in what you've done. But those guys that have seen it will talk and they will say, oh, don't use those guys because we were there doing a roughing and the noggins were falling out. Yeah, so have the pride in that job, yeah it shits me, mate.
Speaker 1:I saw an Instagram story the other day on a young fellow that I've had a little bit to do with and he was commenting on another video that someone else had posted about some work an apprentice had done and there was some nogs that were a bit chipped and weren't straight and twisted and shit. And his comment was oh, she'll be right, that's all covered in plaster, no one sees it. And twisted and shit. And his comment was oh, she'll be right, that's all covered in plaster, no one sees it. To me, that comment completely changed my view on that person.
Speaker 1:Yeah definitely, because that's not look your job. If you want to be classed and considered as a quality tradesman or a craftsman, you finish your framework as if it's going to be on show every single day. Yeah definitely.
Speaker 2:And if you go back to our grandfathers who were building Queenslanders, who only lined on the inside all their frames, their braces, checked in, their window sills, their window heads, you know, all mortised and tented in. It was all seen.
Speaker 1:I tell my team mate I don't give a fuck if it's hidden by cladding, plaster, whatever. I do not want someone coming into this house in 20 years' time and doing a renovation and saying, look at these fucking dodgy builders, yeah but that's my theory on it.
Speaker 2:I'm the same, I'm the same. Just leave it how you do it. Do as you would in your own house.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, try and instill that in my boys. But yeah, no, it's important, I think. Yeah, this is a little one, probably a bit of a bone of contention between people, but tying off string lines, I'm not big on the six half hitches that they put in the body into the lines, and I believe this is my view. If you, I was taught it was seven twists, so double your line over and do basically seven twists in your string line. If you put it on your nail, put as much tension on it as you want, pull it back tight. If you roll the line up and hang the line on it, it shouldn't come undone, and that's what I do all the time. Yeah, because when you go to undo it, you just pull the line the opposite direction. It slides off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I just think it's an art that's being lost because I'm trying to pull lines down and someone's put six half inches and they've gone under and over and under and over and you end up pulling the bloody nail out because you can't get it off. It's a simple thing. I'm the same. Maybe I'm a bit pedantic about it, but I think that if you teach the guys to do them properly, there shouldn't be a problem. It relies on friction. That's how I was taught, and we never did half hitches.
Speaker 1:Well, I never did a half hitch either and I actually had the bag on. Last weekend I was up the farm. I marked out bloody two and a half, three odd k's of fences and yards and shit, and so I did it all on my own. So I was, I was pegging shit out and I had to put nails in tape so I could do me three, four, fives and everything. But um, like I I actually.
Speaker 1:So I went and bought six new string lines and I bought a um, I think it's a 500 meter roll, because, like some of the runs I pulled were, I think the longest one I pulled was like 360, 380 meters. Yeah, wow, um, and so, mate, that's all I was doing. I put it from the boundary fence, I put it around one of the big round, um, strainer posts, strainer posts, yeah, and then I pulled, I put star pickets in and drove the shit like drove a 12 foot or 1200 star pick it like 500 into the ground. Yep, and yeah, I was literally twisting this thing like seven or eight times. So that's what we were taught.
Speaker 1:I was taught to do seven, eight times. Yep, so you're twisting on your finger, hook it over the post and because they say long, like the stretch in the stretch. I was just reefing on these things. Yeah and yeah. So I was taught you do your twist, you put it over the post, you reef, reef on it, you get it tight and then you line back over the post twice and that was it. We didn't tie anything. No half hitches, none of that. And, mate, I was putting a huge amount of pressure on them because they were so long and it was a little bit windy, and then I'd side it, I'd walk along, put a peg of pressure on it the other direction. Done, finish.
Speaker 2:Move on to the next one, and I think it's such an easy thing, but it can become such a pain to undo when it's got that many different body knots tied in it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and well, it's funny, you brought up string lines, because the other thing, because I brought that big roll, so what? So the? What's the standard string line? A little roll, one, 50, 100 are they? So, yeah, there's a lot of areas that they ran out like so, um, and so this big, long, 500 meter roll whatever it was, 600, I can't remember but, um, after half a day it ended up breaking, like I was pulling the shit out of this thing and so I've just gone over the bush and I've broken off. So we never used to have our lines on things. They were always on a bit of dowel, on a bit of dowel, and the dowel was generally about 200, 250 mil long, yep, and you had to twist it, yep.
Speaker 2:So there was an art to like looping this thing and did you roll it in your hand at the same time? Yeah, so you twist it and roll it, yeah, same time, yeah.
Speaker 1:So you twist it and roll it, yeah, yeah, and that's how you kept it tight and you didn't get any knots in it. And so I've gone over the bush and snapped off a branch and bloody got me chiseling like, made one out of a piece of bloody stick yet and I'm like no one else, like the file. I'm there on my own but I'm literally walking from the post to the other end, twisting this thing in my hand, doing it and laughing at myself, saying, fuck me, like my apprentices wouldn't have a clue how to do any of this and then that's all. Like I need to show them. But would they do anything with that?
Speaker 1:Probably not, because these days you just go um and you buy a string line, but my boss and I and even when I started my time it there wasn't a lot of just round string lines like you you bought string in bulk, yes, like it used to come in. I don't know, it might even have been a kilometre, but you bought. You coloured your yellows, your pinks, yeah, and your plain which plain was generally a brickies one yes, in a massive roll, yep, and you basically started twisting around your own sticks and you made them whatever length you wanted to.
Speaker 2:So my plumb bob is still on one of those. Yeah, on a piece of 20 mil dowel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, they were like they were. Cause. The other thing is, with these round ones and like, people probably don't like, they're probably just thinking we're talking shit and it doesn't matter about any of this. But like the round ones, you, it doesn't matter what you do, but if you're just using a round one, you're pulling it out. You, you're doing your seven twists, you're hooking on your post, you're pulling this pressure on it, you're letting it down, you're winding up. They end up twisted. They do that when you have it on a piece of dowel. By doing that, rolling in your hand and twisting motion as you're winding it up, you're taking that twist out of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, probably another couple good points off that air hoses, right, yeah, so for me for an air hose and look, we don't use them a lot these days but I would run it out and not plug it in the compressor. So I'd put the the male end at the compressor, run it out it'd be fully extended, then plug it in and then you'd release some air out of it before you put the gun in. I did my apprenticeship in noosa. So one grain of sand would stuff a gun. Yeah, so every time you change guns you push it. You'd nail, punch in, let some air out so it cleans it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then of an afternoon you would unplug it at the compressor, unplug your gun off it, have it laid out and wind it up. Yeah, so it doesn't get a memory and it doesn't get twists in it. But my power leads are exactly the same. I've got extension leads from when I was an apprentice and they don't have twists in them. Yeah, because I would lay them out flat and then roll them in and do a half twist with every loop you bring in. Yeah, and then of a morning you wouldn't plug it in, you'd leave it there and you'd run it back out. So you'd run it out one way and reverse, roll it up.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I've got leads in my trailer that hang on the back door that do not have. None of my leads have twists in them.
Speaker 1:It sounds like very mundane stuff and like who gives a shit about it really. But, mate, I'm exactly the same as you. It shits me when I'm on site early and I'm seeing the boys, well, all late, seeing them set up or pack up, and again we have to teach our guys why this stuff matters. But it shits me to see someone get an air hose out. I hate air guns. I think every site should still have air. It's better quality, it punches the nails in better, it's quicker. To me it's just a lot better.
Speaker 2:Going back to the nails, the nails were designed for air guns to be shot in, so the glue heated up where your gas guns and your battery guns don't shoot as fast. So the gun, the nails, probably haven't been designed or redesigned to suit our new guns. They fit in there at work, yeah, but are they actually working under tension? Probably like they're supposed to, yeah no, I think.
Speaker 1:I think every site should have air guns like, um, but seeing people get an air hose out, walk to the compressor and, while it's still all bound up, plug it in and the thing fucking blows up. And then they're cursing and swearing because it's all knotted up, yeah, like. And then exactly the same as you. And yet, like my boss would scream at me if I started rolling the and a lead up from the male end, like man, would I get a kick in the ass. Or if I started rolling the and a lead up from the male end, like man, would I get a kick in the ass. Or if I started rolling their hose up from the compressor, yeah, I would get a kick in the ass. So, exactly like you just said, you there was. In the morning you rolled out one way, in the afternoon you rolled up the opposite.
Speaker 2:Yep, and shit lasted they do, yeah, yeah, and you can get them so that they just come together properly, clip them together, them together. I've got a bit of electrical wire tied on mine. You tie them up, yeah, and then you'd hang them up or put them wherever, and you get that. If you do it enough times, you get those loops. Exactly right, yeah, not long short. Everything else, even your leads. They just plug your leads together, yeah, and they last longer. But it comes back to, I suppose, looking after our tools and making our tools work for us.
Speaker 1:It's pride, isn't it really? Yeah, People are listening to this and going, oh fucking hell, what a waste of time. It's pride. It's looking after your shit, it's doing those little, it's that extra 1%.
Speaker 2:It's the 1%. Yeah, yeah, but your tools is your livelihood. Looking after your tools, like if you're going to buy tools every three or four years, yeah, like your money. Your income's coming down. Yeah, I've still in my trailer.
Speaker 2:I've got my nine and a quarter inch makita power saw, which is my first power saw, when I was an apprentice and I was doing a weekend job for some friends of the family and they're building this huge big shed in pomona and they put all the big timber posts in and I went and put all the rails on hand, drove the iron on the outside with the old springhead nails and, um, as part of my tool allowance, I said to him I wanted a nine and a quarter inch and the boss said to me why do you want a saw that big? I said, well, a big saw can cut little stuff, but a little saw can't cut big stuff. Yeah, but I've still got that saw today in my trailer and if we're cutting big sleepers and stuff, it comes out out and we use it. Yep, and just looked after it.
Speaker 1:Yep, I've got two 9 1⁄4s still sitting around the corner over there, Makita ones. What are they? 2,400 watt or 3,400 watt or?
Speaker 2:something, something like that. Yeah, they're pretty big.
Speaker 1:You give them to an apprentice to use now and you tell them you've got to hold on to it, mate, because they're only used to holding this bloody cordless shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they've got brakes on them and everything else where these things will kick and they'll bite. Yeah, you've got to respect your tools.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely See I suppose Back when I was a apprentice sorry to cut you off, but every tool had a purpose. Yes, Now I feel like most tradies are trying to turn up with minimal amount of tools.
Speaker 2:You've got these tool companies that are selling these packs and everyone thinks they can fucking operate from a pack.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like it's not how it works not as trippy as if we're not. There's so many variables. But if you want to be a true craftsman and true tradie, um, you've got to have tools that are fit for purpose and you shouldn't be cutting posts like big posts out, or hardwood sleepers, or chasing in a set of stairs or whatever with a little bloody, five or six inch bloody cordless saw. No, that's right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree with you. There's a reason for them. You know so the purpose and the why. So, yeah, yeah, another one I got here is you know, when you're flicking out ceiling battens or you might be up on scaffold you know there's guys at each end and you're flicking lines all the time, tying two chalk lines together, yeah, so joining them in the middle. So they've both got. You know the canister each, and then you'll wind it up, flick it and then you'll wind your end in. His comes out, you move over, flick the next one and you just keep going backwards and forwards. So, therefore, you haven't got to keep getting up and down and passing the end to somebody, and the way the ends on them are, you can loop it over and just loop it through itself, yeah, and just minimizes that up and down all the time.
Speaker 1:That's a cracking one mate and saves a lot of time. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's something that we do Paraffin wax, which basically is the cheapest white candle you can buy. So you just go to Coles and buy some white candles and it's paraffin wax. Going back to our hand saws, hand planers, I'll put it on my electric planer, my battery planer, and you rub it on and it just makes your tools glide so much easier. So you might have a hand saw that's a little bit dull, it might need to be sharpened. Rub a bit of wax on it and it just flies through the timber. So much easier. Planing aluminium so sometimes you might have to plane a bit of aluminium for some reason. Rub that on the bottom of your planer and it doesn't grab as much, because when you're planing aluminium, even though it's smooth, it's got like a little chatter mark and it wants to grab on the bottom of your planer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you're rubbing it on the base plate of your planer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, rubbing it on the base plate of the planer? Yep, rub it on my hand saws. It just makes it work so much easier. Yeah, and it's just a cheap candle. It also works well on squeaky door catches, door hinges and places like that where you can use it. I mean, I use it on my thicknesser, yeah. So whenever we're using the thicknesser I'll always wind it down and rub it inside and then put it back to height and then use it, and if I start getting a bit of drag, I'll rub some more in there. You know, turn it off, put your hand in there. Yeah, and it's just the cheapest white candle you can buy in there. Yeah, and it's just the cheapest white candle you can buy. Very good, I learned something there, but I had a couple of those in the drawer of my trailer all the time. And hand planes. They work great on hand planes. People don't know what they are these days, but if you're using it, Every good tradesman should have a little hand planer in their tool bag.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but yeah, so paraffin wax is cheap white candles. So paraffin wax is cheap white candles and it just allows everything to slide that much easier. Excellent, it works good on your remember the old DS2 door catches? Yeah, and they always squeak. That's right. Rub the value inside there and it takes a squeak out of it. Very good, yeah, so I've written down here well-organized workspace. When you're working at your saw st stools, your saw bench, crap under your feet, yeah, you know guys are just trying to work and they're tripping over or walking around something or taking off cuts of the timber off the saw bench and putting it at their feet. Like, make a workspace, not only for safety, but it just makes it that much quicker and easier. You're not worrying about what's under your feet all the time. Yeah, I think that's a really big one.
Speaker 1:Well, it's also setting up in the correct area. Yes, that's just something that was drummed into me constantly. The saw bench didn't go in the same location every single day. If you were doing cladding at the feet, the bench followed you around the house, wherever you started that morning. Or if you knew that that day you were going to get this side and that side done, then it went out in the fresco area and the next day you might have to move around to the front of the house. So, taking out that travel time running backwards and forwards all the time yeah same with the fit out.
Speaker 1:Like you do the ground floor, you get it smashed out. Move. Your saw up to the first floor like the top floor. Yeah yeah yeah, but um like. Yeah, have your buckets or your wheelbarrow beside your saw so that the waste is going straight in there. When it's full, take the bin, empty it yeah, yeah, we have bins.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just some drums like yeah, the 40 liter drum or 60 liter bloody place, yeah, 12 gallon drums. Yeah, yeah, I've got a couple metal ones of those. Yeah, and we just put that at the saw bench. Yeah, so if it's rubbish it just goes straight in, because otherwise you're double handling. Yeah, you're dropping it on the ground and you gotta pick it up again yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:No, we're big on that, having the some sort of buckets or um, we just get those. I think the 60 liter buckets from bunnings are cheap as yep or wheelbarrow like yeah, whatever rubbish you got, as soon as it's full, straight in the bin straight in the bin, yeah, and it's just, it's preparation, um, but it's also a big time saver and it's safer, yeah, you know that's.
Speaker 1:Another big thing is the safety side of it, yeah, and while we're on that, we're cleaning up and stuff, like just again. That's why I'm a big fan of the air, like in the afternoon, like just blow your shit, blow your sores out, yeah, like blow your planers out, clean shit off yeah that.
Speaker 2:The air hose is great for that. Just a big clean up and then you know the drop saws. They just keep that little bit dust in the bottom all the time, get a slight bit of moisture on them. Next thing they bind up and they don't want to work. We get the air hose in there. Yeah, just cleans them out. The blowers are good, but they just don't have the same place. Yeah, yeah, they're good, for certain things can't be there, mate, no no, every site needs air.
Speaker 2:Yep, um, denailing timber. So you've just been doing a lot of that recently with your, your demo work and stuff, yeah, um, but I'm talking more about if you're doing, say, cladding weather board, chamfer board, um moldings where you might be taking them off, especially in some of the older style homes where you want to reuse them. And denailing is not punching the nail back but pulling it out through the back of the timber, because that more than likely has been puttied and it's been painted and as soon as you drive it back through the face, it blows the face out.
Speaker 1:You've got to pick and choose the timber, what it's going to be reused for.
Speaker 2:But but yeah, get your nips and curl your nips and pull it through and pulling out the back, where a lot of guys don't never been taught. That I don't understand. So you know, it's a potentially reusable timber becomes, you know, wasted, wasted, it's just the waste being denailed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. No, we do that with a lot of our claddings and stuff that we reuse. Don with framing, like framing just gets punched out. But yeah, yeah, definitely any chamfer boards, weatherboards, arc trays and things on on older homes. If we're reusing it, yeah, but in saying that some timber, um what, some of the nails are that old that they don't pull through. So, yeah, if that's the case, then it's a lot of times you're just pulling it till it breaks and then you're nipping it off at the back yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it doesn't work all the time, but just you know, really fun I suppose. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:What about the other trades, mate? You had a few for other trades, didn't you?
Speaker 2:when we've been chatting, yeah, I think I wrote them down. To be honest, I think this morning I was talking to a plumber the other day and he raised I'm looking at putting another plumber on because the guy we're using is quite busy and just reliability and stuff like that. So he's a young guy and he seems really good. But he said to me that he's finding it hard that when he gets to site that the sites are so minimalistic on leftover timber he's got nothing to put noggings in with. Because I said we'd run the noggs in for him for different areas. And he's like oh, what do you mean? I said I will mark it out together, we'll shoot the noggs in and then they're all done properly. Yeah, um, and he said well, the problem he's finding is that he's not getting timber on the sites. He's getting the site and they're not leaving anything for him. So then he's trying to pinch some timber out of the job somewhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this, the jobs are that tight, especially a volume builder where they're smashing out 100 at the same home. They have a list that has worked 100 times. They're basically cutting up pallets to get their timber.
Speaker 2:So as a homeowner, you wouldn't be really happy with a piece of pallet going in your wall, would you?
Speaker 1:Well it comes back to that thing. A lot of people just think that well, it's covered up, who cares? But I wouldn't want a bit of bloody, especially with plumbing fixtures. I wouldn't want any plumbing fixtures screwed to a bit of bloody. 15 mil pallet material.
Speaker 2:No, and I suppose it comes back to is it treated?
Speaker 1:Yeah, what about these little ones? I've talked about a few of these before, like water testing, wet areas For flood testing yeah. Or just making sure, once your waterproofing is done, you're clogging up your drains and you're putting a pen line on the wall and you're leaving it sit for 48 hours yeah definitely.
Speaker 2:I've got what I call them balloons, but they pump up, they go down inside the waste. So your puddle fan is in place, you put it down inside there, fill it up. Yeah, we pencil mark it, we time stamp it. So when we take a photo on the camera, you know on your phone, you have a date and a time on there. Yeah, and then, yeah, like you said, give it 48 hours. Come If it's dramatically changed. Obviously there's a concern or you'll start to see water licking through the room somewhere. Yeah, so I think that's a really important one.
Speaker 1:It has to be done. Yeah, mate, what about flicking lines, like when you're marking slabs and things out, like getting your square line, as in, what are we?
Speaker 2:using to flick the lines or.
Speaker 1:No, like getting a like having square lines, like setting up, like before you go, marking out all your walls, squaring the house or the reno up and then finding your, your longest hallway, your longest room and, yeah, putting like. I guess we we call them square lines.
Speaker 1:I just well, that's what they're putting a permanent square line through the job in both directions, like marking it with nico. Um, like one of our recent jobs we've just done, um, one brad, one of our leading carpenters. He's actually gone through and put nicks in with the grinder in the concrete so they're never lost, they can't get lost, and then everything throughout the job works off that square line. The toiler does its set out off it anything.
Speaker 2:So you're just setting a permanent datum. Yeah, that's what you're doing. Yeah, so whenever we're doing flick outs, we'll use black oxide because you don't get a bit of rain on that sort of thing. Yeah, but we all run like a blue and someone else will you know in chalk. Yeah, so you know there's a couple of other colors, but we'll always do it initially in a chalk line. So it gives you the ability. If it doesn't you know, three, four, five doesn't work means that you can tweak it and then, once you've got that position correct, we'll flick it in the black. But yeah, I think that's very important to have your permanent square lines all the time that everyone can work back to.
Speaker 1:And doing set outs like when you flick, like not doing it in a rush to do it, you flick all your walls but actually having to think about like positions of tiles and where joints are going to be and where plumbing fixtures are going to go, like well, that's an overall set out, isn't so I think majority people say set out, they just think about the set out of the frames.
Speaker 2:But, like you said, there's the tiling, there's the niches. Um, where that all comes into play. How tiles finish up in a taller down a hallway? Yeah, are they offset? And that's another thing. That's lost is a lot of tilers don't know how to set out. Yeah, you know where do you start? Start with a full tile and a corner mat? Yeah, of course you know. But you might have to start with a half tile so that you finish with a third, whereas if you had to start it with a full, you might end up with this little 20 mil rip somewhere. Yeah, you know, and especially when you're doing renovations, the walls might already be there and they may not be square. Yeah, so you know, there might be in a five meter wall, it might run 20 mil out, so you don't want to have a tile grout line 50 mil away. Yeah, so you've got to change that set out so that you've got a bigger piece of tile. So it's not as obvious, not, yeah?
Speaker 1:not so configurous? Um, what about your heights, your noggins in your walls? As in um making sure you avoid the joints in your jitins and your walls?
Speaker 2:As in Making sure you avoid the joints in your jit, rock and stuff Yep Do you know what the code is for the distance between noggins vertically Mate not off the top of my head. So the width of the noggins, let's say it's a 70 mil frame. They can't be any more than 70mm apart vertically. So I know that you know you generally flick a line and you put one up and one down, but for some reason if they have to move you can't have them 100mm apart.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, but I thought you were talking about spacing, like it's a tall wall.
Speaker 2:Oh you know, so it's just the row of nogging themselves, as it seems like it's a tall wall. Oh you know, sorry, it's just the row of nogging themselves. Yeah, as in the positioning of where they sit, whatever the width is, they can't be any more than that. Let's say, for some reason, that there was a penetration coming through the wall and you had to move that nogging. Well, if you had to move it more than the width, you would have to put two in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, two, one above and one below. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, just always keeping your rows and noggs, like working out what you're depending on the heights of your ceilings, working out what plasterboard sheets are going to be used, making sure your row and noggs is like. I like to aim for 200 mil. Yep, get it below, so you haven't got that row and noggs right where your joint's going to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure.
Speaker 1:Even though we go through straight and walls and playing things like I, just I think it plays havoc on the on that joint if you've got solid timber behind them yeah, it does.
Speaker 2:It tends to put a little um, a little random there, doesn't it yeah?
Speaker 1:yeah, what about, uh, like waterproofing, like preparation things like I know, a lot of builders try and do their own waterproofing to save a dollar yep I'm a big fan of just getting a contractor in that knows what they're doing and and doing it properly. But like part of the problem, on a massive re like rebuild we're doing at the moment from some builders that didn't do a job correctly I was just using blackjack for waterproofing in a bathroom, no, on a retaining wall.
Speaker 2:On a retaining wall yeah, yeah, and was it a block wall?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, I see it all the time. I'm not a fan. I think blackjack, the only thing, blackjack. I don't know what retaining wall? Yeah, yeah. And was it a block wall? Yeah, yeah, I see it all the time. I'm not a fan. I think blackjack. The only thing blackjack should be used for is on your posts and the ground.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which is another good point is blackjacking your posts and they go on the concrete because you get the reaction from the calcium in the post and they'll start to want to rust away at their ground height or at their top of concrete. Yeah, the calcium in the concrete.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:It causes a reaction with the place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, anyone all like generally anything we put in the ground, whether it's steel or timber. Yeah yeah, we'll always get blackjacked.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we do that on our timber as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yep, what about like putting membranes on your floors when you've got timber flooring that's close to the ground, yep, so we've been doing it for a little while.
Speaker 1:We've got a job coming up at the moment. So our standard practice now is, like any floor that's got an undercroft area, like we put geofoam down, we put 100mm gravel down and make it all nice and tidy so weeds and shit don't grow and just having that gravel in there allows the ground to air a lot better. But, um, recently, um, our timber flooring companies started, uh, refusing to lay timber floors unless we're putting a waterproof membrane over the floor that they're laying it on. So any moisture that possibly does come up through the existing timber floor or through the particle board substrate doesn't get into their good timber, yep. And so I guess they're telling me that there's been changes in the code and things, but for a long time they've well, depending on the floor substrate and stuff. Like you know, when they lay timber on top of concrete, they always put the plastic down and seal it off. But yeah, you should be putting a waterproof membrane down, a roll on sealer type one, on your timber floors before you lay your timber over the top.
Speaker 2:Okay, um, going back to your slabs, there's a bit of sort of controversy on that, because if you're doing an overlay on the concrete slab which is glue, fixed like a TNG floor, so you're putting a 15 mil ply down, it's supposed to be glued to your concrete.
Speaker 1:So if you've got a plastic membrane down, Well glued or it's got to be all supposed to be pinned. I think it's got to be pinned at like. I think it's 300 mil squares or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's been a couple of years. The last time we did we had to put a waterproof membrane on the slab that was compatible with Ultraset, and then we had to notch trowel and put our ply down and pin it as well. Yeah, so we drilled it and then we put a sealant into the hole, pinned it down, and then we obviously give that a light sand and then we notch trowels and put the timber floor down at the top.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think there's so many different scenarios. I think that's why it's really important You've got to have good relationships with your contractors, good relationships with your reps, and really assessing every job. Yep, because, depending on your location, the amount of moisture, whether it's a subfloor, whether it's a slab on ground, um, whether it's a new house, old house, like there's so many variables. So, like getting like everyone's aim should be to do best practice, like sit back, assess every single situation, every single job yeah have a conversation with your trades, the supplies, whoever it is, and make sure that you're basically building every single job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, have a conversation with your trades, the suppliers, whoever it is, and make sure that you're basically building every single job the best you possibly can, yeah, achieving the best you can.
Speaker 2:And one of the things I wrote in here was about accuracy. You know, aiming for the one percenter. You know, do one percenter better today than you did yesterday, yeah, definitely. And I think that if the industry took that on board, we'd have a lot better industry yeah, oh, 100, 100.
Speaker 1:Like just get rid of this old. Oh, I think it's old-fashioned. Like near enough's good enough. Yep, like that's. There's too much of that in the industry.
Speaker 2:Like near enough is not good enough now we need to be building houses that last longer, like our grandfathers were building houses that are still up today well, not just longer, but look after the occupants.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, people should be able to live in a home and know that the home's not going to contribute to diseases or health issues, making sure the products go into them are installed correctly, that they're fit for purpose, that they're going to last a test of time, that they're appropriate for purpose, that they're going to last a test of time, that they're appropriate for that zone or that location. There is a lot to it. I think so many trades just feel that it's one size fits all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think we need to be more conscious of all those things. Which is education, which is what you're trying to achieve, or what you are achieving. That's what you're putting out there, but I think that a lot more people should be taking that on board and just trying to improve.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, now look, Craig. Well, definitely a massive shout-out for you to come back today, the Godfather. So Craig is a look. If you want to spend some time with Craig, hang out with him. Make sure you come to the level up experience on the 30th of May. Craig's going to be there. He's actually going to be doing a panel discussion with a few other builders about all types of things to do with building as well as running a building business. But, yeah, Craig truly is a godfather of building. He knows a lot of tips and hints and he is definitely open to having conversations and sharing and educating people. So, thanks for coming, mate. Thanks for having me, mate. It's always a pleasure. I like coming down and having a chat. Yeah, no, it's awesome. Well, go to my website, duanepiercecom. Purchase your tickets for the Level Up Experience. Make sure you subscribe, like, share everything with this podcast so that we can continue to make this Australia's number one construction podcast. See you on the next one. Are you ready?
Speaker 2:to build smarter, live better and enjoy life.
Speaker 1:Then head over to livelikebuildcom. Forward slash, elevate. To get started, everything discussed during the Level Up podcast with me, dwayane pierce, is based solely on my own personal experiences and those experiences of my guests. The information, opinions and recommendations presented in this podcast are for general information only, and any reliance on the information provided in this podcast is done at your own risk. We recommend that you obtain your own professional advice in respect to the topics discussed during this podcast.