The "Level Up" with Duayne Pearce Podcast
I take on the role of an authoritative voice that fearlessly communicates truths drawn directly from my lived experiences. With a genuine sense of ownership, my insights are free from any hidden agendas – they truly belong to the audience. My stories and journey add remarkable value, the key now lies in harnessing its power effectively to help others.
My purpose is to create a new residential building industry. My mission is to inspire unshakable self-confidence in my colleagues in the industry, empowering them to orchestrate prosperous, enduring, and lucrative businesses that bring exceptional projects to fruition for our clients.
My goal is to foster a deeper comprehension among clients about the identity and functions of builders, redefining their perceptions.
The "Level Up" with Duayne Pearce Podcast
Competition, Mental Health, Apprentices and Finding out What Success Means to You.
#147 The collaborative spirit of the building industry shines through as the Godfather (Craig Stuart), Ryan Smith and Anthony Hickey join Duayne for a panel discussion to discuss breaking down barriers, mental health challenges, and redefining success.
Check out Duayne's other projects here...
Live Life Build
livelifebuild.com
D Pearce Constructions
dpearceconstructions.com.au
QuoteEaze
quoteeaze.com/Free-Offer.html
Check out the Duayne Pearce website here...
https://duaynepearce.com/
There's things that my apprentices have told me about how they do something and why they do it and I'm like, yeah, that'll work and that's actually probably more efficient. But if I thought, no, no, I'm the boss, then I'm actually. It's to the detriment of my business if I wasn't listening.
Speaker 3:I feel like there's a lot of builders out there that use apprentices as a cheap labor.
Speaker 4:I would say you need at least four years as being a qualified carpenter to actually go out on your own and do your own thing.
Speaker 5:If you take a young trader, you're an apprentice, especially an apprentice. You've got a responsibility, a duty of care to them, to do your utmost to educate them and give them every opportunity.
Speaker 3:G'day guys, welcome back to another episode of Level Up. We have definitely got a cracking episode coming your way today, because we are sitting around a table saw in the shed with three other incredible builders. They all happen to be part of my Live Life Build Elevate community. But we're going to be talking all things this afternoon, from mental health, collaboration in the building industry. We're even going to touch on the difference between the east and the west side of Australia by the sounds of it. But yeah, massive shout out to Craig, the godfather's, back in. We got Ryan from Loxbeck with us today and Anthony from Two Tone Construction, so we'll kick it off with you. Anthony, just tell us a quick little intro about yourself and your business.
Speaker 1:Yep, anthony Hickey, I run a construction business in the inner west of Melbourne and, yeah, the company name is Two Tone Construction, which was spawned from my dad being a carpenter, who I love and adore, and followed under his footsteps, and he was my first employee, and so there was two tones there, and so it made sense we're the two tones. So, um, that's us, and I'll get you over to riser yeah, um, I'm ryan from lockspec building.
Speaker 4:We're based in shell harbour in the south coast of illawarra. Um, lockspec comes from, uh, my ambition to become a building inspector in my first son. So we combine the two. We predominantly do full house renovations and new builds. And yeah, just here to chew the gab with the boys, I suppose.
Speaker 5:Craig Stewart from Stewart Homes and Renovations, aka the Godfather Just thought I'd throw that in there. That's it Primarily custom design between renovations and new builds um and everything else in between mate, that's godfather.
Speaker 3:We I know we're gonna get some hats made or something. I think it's um. You need your own instagram, the godfather you need to change it up.
Speaker 3:but uh, look, we're here to have this conversation today and to put this podcast out there. Um, these guys are doing fantastic things in the building industry. We're here to have this conversation today and to put this podcast out there. These guys are doing fantastic things in the building industry. We're all trying to build better, we're all trying to improve ourselves and our businesses, and the only way that this industry is going to improve is by doing exactly what we're doing here this afternoon, and that's having a chat and collaborating.
Speaker 1:So I'm not sure on the first topic. Who wants to kick it off? I'll just talk for the sake of talking For someone that was just about to throw up before when we recorded your podcast.
Speaker 3:You're so nervous, you're jumping in.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, as the leader of this group, I'm lucky enough to be one of the captains of an A-team group. We've got in our Elevate platform and at some point during the captaincy I was relegated because they brought the Godfather in, so now we're co-captains. But yeah, we, I guess, have built an incredible relationship through our A-team and I certainly call both you guys a dear friend of mine. Now, and I guess to run this into a question, how do you think, as a building industry, we can become better when there's a different belief out there, that we are working against each other and everyone is, I guess, holding their cards close to their heart or close to their chest and they're fighting against the other builder to try and get the job, when clearly, I know we live all in different states We've got Queensland, new South Wales and Victoria here but I know for a fact that I'm a better person by sharing my experiences and learning from you guys and what you've experienced. So did I ask a question there?
Speaker 4:Can you answer? No, you're just not going to let us talk. I think that's a wrap. Thank you, we're waiting for it.
Speaker 1:I don't really have a question, I just wanted to hear my own voice there.
Speaker 5:I think it's collaboration. I think the important thing you're trying to say there, anthony, is that the fact that we all live so far apart but we're so connected emotionally I'm not going to say physically, um, yeah and also like business-wise, and I think now that comes back to the live life build amelia and duane um being so passionate what they do. But I think the connection is so strong for us. As you said, we're all in the A-team, but I think that we've just found that common ground that we support each other, and I think there should be more of it, whether it's A-team or not. But I myself try to be passionate about other builders. I meet in my travels and try and talk to those sort of guys and put it out there.
Speaker 3:Because how's the industry going to get better if we don't start talking, communicating and and helping each other out? It's pretty unbelievable like we, with the big event we put on a few weeks ago, like we brought matt rising around from the states and like literally like I've talked to him on zoom and phone and stuff, but like I'd never met him. I was nervous as shit when I went to pick him up from his hotel, but like he walked out big hugs, like it's like we've known each other forever and um, he talks about it on my podcast, but he's like we all deal with the same thing. Like doesn't matter whether if you're a chinese carpenter, american carpenter, australian carpenter, like wherever you're from in the world, we all deal with the same thing on a daily basis. We still have to go home and provide for our families. We still have to produce like products for our, for our clients.
Speaker 1:So we're so similar and so the the best way to just improve everything is for us to talk to each other and share information yeah and there shouldn't be any competition at all and we're lucky enough to be around each other through um elevate and through live life build, and so we get to see that we are. We're all enough to be around each other through Elevate and through Live Life Build, and so we get to see that we're all like-minded. There's no egos, we're all just trying to better ourselves and our businesses. But outside like taking this to people who aren't part of a building coaching group or mentoring group I think we need to break that stigma of not wanting to let any trade secrets out to other builders because, like you just said, we all share these experiences.
Speaker 1:We've all had highs and lows in our building businesses and it's by being able to open up and communicate and let people in on what's going on in your world that it makes it easier and, I guess, connects you with those other builders. So I feel like it's really important to have things which I know we all do. We try and have builders breakfast, which we have our members that we know through Live Life Build, but we also keep trying to bring other builders in so they can understand and see what it looks like when people are working together to try and better themselves and their business, and every time we've had new builders come into our building breakfast mornings, they're always in awe of the fact that we are so open and we're also inquisitive as to how they operate, because we don't necessarily have the right way to do things. We want to learn how they do things so we can maybe tweak what we do to become better, and then therefore we're all getting better. Yeah, um, I think it's super important mate, just on that builder's breakfast.
Speaker 3:I actually I don't know if I've ever mentioned on the podcast before there's a. We set up a facebook page four years ago when I started that it's just called the builder's breakfast group, so you should get on there and get every member in your breakfast group on there. But the whole idea is to hook builders up in your area and get on there and ask anyone that wants to have a breakfast yeah, beautiful, um, yeah, jump on there and have a look.
Speaker 4:Definitely tell you on facebook, not instagram I think, I think one of the big things I've taken out of the is the growth that you can have with, like, having people like this around you. So I can remember to the day actually to the car park I was sitting in when I got a phone call from craig and I the reason why I joined a group like elevate was because I was at probably one of my lower points and not knowing what I wanted to do with my business and whatnot. But the conversations there and then was um, like I'm not alone. And to have that conversation with someone that I heard him on a couple of podcasts and he's got quite an aura about him, um, I didn't know he was as big as what he was, uh, but he's a giant. But the conversations I've, I remember listening to the podcast months prior to that and just thinking that this dude's like he's pretty special.
Speaker 4:And I got this phone call from Craig Stewart and I was just like holy crap, this bloke's talking to me. But like no, but instantly I had this. I just had this feeling that he was there to help me and you're not alone, like it, just the wave just goes away and as soon as you can open yourself up to have that conversation and again the vulnerability. We talk a lot about that. That really, really, really helps everybody grow Like Craig's probably to me, probably one of the best craftsmen in the country, and I've got to say that because he's so big and I'm scared. No, but he is.
Speaker 4:But I know he gets a lot out of us as well, because I don't think computers are around when you grow up. But I'm able to help Craig. I'm quite up but but like I'm able to help Craig with I'm quite techie, so I'm able to help Craig and that sort of thing. So like we bounce off stuff all the time and it's just. I reckon it's so cool to have that relationship, oh man.
Speaker 5:I agree totally and you know, they didn't do computers when I went to school. Everything I've done I've learned myself. I've never even been to a computer course, I was only marketing that's all right.
Speaker 5:It's the truth, though you know um, and I could not get myself out of trouble. But, yeah, the collaboration, but the connection of opening each other up and making yourself vulnerable and knowing that you guys aren't going to judge, no matter what I say or what I do, but you're there to support and pick you up. You know, in those low moments, yeah, um, and just that reaching out, like you said, sitting in the car park, I just, you know, did that when that a team started, just because I wanted to connect with other people, and I suppose it comes from me going back as a young tradie. So when I started at 22 years of age, looking for myself, everything I wanted to do, there was no one there to help you, to give you support. You know, if there's something different on a project, there was really no one apart from going to the master builders and talking to those people. So I'm a lot more open now to try and help the younger builders coming through, or even the older builders, like you two, like sometimes, hey, come on.
Speaker 5:I'm not 40 just yet, but that's what it's about, though, isn't it? Like you said, we talk a bit of tech, we talk a bit of mental health, we talk a bit of construction methods, yeah, um, and those sort of things. So I think that part of it, the connection, the vulnerability I think what I'm trying to say is that we get vulnerable, and from that point, we can actually grow and become better yeah, better within ourselves I think there's still a lot of stigma around um people seeing each other as competition as well especially like locally.
Speaker 4:Like to not share information or not to share a better way to do things is really naive, I reckon now. I think that now I used to honestly hand on heart, used to think that the builder down the road was public enemy number one yeah, but um, and where do you think that's come from?
Speaker 3:right? Like a bit of it probably comes from clients. Like because if you're involved in those tendering scenarios, clients are forcing that competition, yeah, by going for the cheapest quote. But like what? Where? Why do you think that led you down that path?
Speaker 4:um, I get, I guess just, yeah, trying to trying to race to the bottom, get, get job, get jobs, um, build, build a business, like now that I look back on it now, the way we operate now is like we take jobs that we want and that we know is going to be a good outcome for everybody, like the client and ourselves. Before it would have been like, oh okay, who's the cheapest? All right, I've got a job and how much turnover am I going to have? I think that does come from everyone quoting against each other and being the cheapest possible price and quality doesn't matter, unfortunately, I think it used to be like that, but I think there's a really awesome transition and happening now where everyone's quality is getting heaps better too.
Speaker 1:I think there's also a big bit of ego involved as well, crossed with imposter syndrome, which we all have said at times that we get. So you're going into an industry, you're trying to win jobs, you see this other builder's sign somewhere and so you think that they're, you know, doing well because the house is looking good. So your ego flares up, that you know you want to be like them or better than them. But you've also got this thing inside that you feel like, oh, maybe I'm not, as I'm not as good, maybe I'm not capable of doing that, so it makes you want to shut down and not connect and not have those conversations.
Speaker 1:Um, but the reality is it's by having connections with other builders and sharing challenges and, um, being able to learn and grow from other people's experiences is what's going to catapult you to be the best builder you can be and and also help them by you know them leaning on you as well. So that's a pretty deep one to start trying to shed the ego a little bit in those scenarios, but if you can see the dangling carrot that it's actually going to benefit you like that's where the connection is. And these builders breakfasts are a great starting point. Um, we all know, like we all know, trades, because we're using them every day oh sorry, they're working part of our team every day. Um, so we have the connections around to be able to communicate with other builders. Um, it's about sort of, yeah, starting those conversations and really just leaning into it and leaning into the uncomfortableness of it, because it very quickly gets to a point where we're shooting the shit.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So it's pretty crazy. The ego yeah, ego is definitely a big part of it. I think because, again, if you don't know what you don't know in business and you think that success is the amount of projects you have on, you take notice, and these days, with Instagram, like you, follow instagram you think, holy shit, like that builder's killing it. He's like, fuck, you go back through his post, he's got eight jobs under construction. He looks like he's got a big team and like, so you, a lot of people see that as success, but no one actually knows behind the scenes he's running a shit show, he's putting out fires every day and he's losing money and not making profit on probably eight out of the ten jobs. So, yeah, the ego is definitely a big thing. It's very easy to get tied up in that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have to remind myself even now, like to just keep the blinkers on because, you know, depending on how you're traveling mentally, sometimes you can get sucked into that little whirlpool of what was me and why aren't we doing jobs like this? Or why don't we have these shiny, beautiful photos or whatever it is. But the reality is everyone's running their own race, and your vision of what success is is completely different to another person, and so the whole connection and collaboration with other builders is only going to benefit you to get to your success, um, and so you just don't have to worry about what everyone else is doing, and I think that's super important to make note of as well so let's just go around.
Speaker 3:What's success to you.
Speaker 1:It's changed since starting. Success for me now is really being able to come home and be present with my family. That's my number one. My wife has done a power of work to get me to where I am today and taken the lion's share when I have been too despondent, I guess, thinking about work side of things, and I've got two young kids. So success for me is being comfortable financially, also being able to still be working towards our goals as far as investment properties. So we're working towards them. We don't need to be making it in one year, but the biggest one is be comfortable financially, um, and be present at home, and that's success for me. If my relationships are good, more than anything else, um, then everything else seems to go well and it all starts with, I guess, me as well. If I'm good, everything else seems to start going.
Speaker 4:My way, um, mine's very similar to anthony's. Um, like personal life I've I'm at a funny part stage in my life where I've I've realized that I probably haven't, uh, prioritized family but more as much as what I probably should have. Um, and I'll probably prioritize the business. But I'm in a good stage in my life professionally where I can spend more time in prioritizing the family. So for me that would be, yeah, being more present at home.
Speaker 4:You know little things like putting the phone down when I know I should be putting the phone down. It's just such a bad habit that you always think that someone needs your help or something like that. But the irony in that is, for me, success. I would love to give back to a lot of people too. I love helping people and just talking. I'm not a counsellor or anything like that, but I just love being able to help out other builders, other guys, especially dads, young dads in businesses and stuff like that, just to have that opportunity to do that without any guilt attached to that spending time doing that. Do that without any guilt attached to that spending time doing that and having, like, professionally, having a team that wants to come to work for their role, not for the pay packet. That's success for me.
Speaker 3:That's awesome.
Speaker 1:That sounds way better than mine. I'll second that.
Speaker 5:What about you, guy Fowler? Look, I think it's probably similar to both what Anthony and Ryan have said. I was in that whirlpool of every job you attended. You had to have a job, you had to put food on the table for a young family. So, unfortunately, my kids are older and they probably have suffered there and I've been making up for it in later years.
Speaker 5:But working Saturday, working Sunday, leaving dark, come home in dark, all that sort of stuff, because that was the mentality we were in and it comes back to that build it down the road. He's your enemy. You don't want to talk to him so you just go, go, go all the time. So being able to have that success now that I don't need to take every single job, that I can take the jobs that I think fit my business model and fit my boys, my team, that work for us, I think that's really important. Obviously, you know, creating some wealth so that you're financially sound, and that sort of thing. And this year was the first time Lucia and I have had a holiday in 30 years together without kids, so that's an achievement.
Speaker 5:Absolutely that's huge, it was pretty awesome mate, so she's already booking another one. It was really good. So I think success is having the business that can do what have the business so I can do what I need to do. I think that's important um for me, and having a good team. And I think the other real successful thing for me is having clients that appreciate and love what I do. Yeah, yeah, that's you know the quality of the job and the way you do it and why you do it, and having clients that actually take that on board, that's also a success.
Speaker 1:It makes such a big difference. I know we talk about people pleasers and whatever else, but being acknowledged for the hard work, we talk about blood, sweat and tears and every project. You have all three of them every single time. They're all in there and it's because we care about what we do and just the slightest amount of appreciation goes so far and that that is a really good sign of succeeding. It's also a really good reason why we do pre-construction, because that's where we work out, where our clients, um, you know if they align with us and, um, that's been a super benefit to being a part of live life, build and understanding the pack process and implementing it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, before we said glad. Can I ask you what success is for you?
Speaker 3:uh, I think what success looks like to everyone should like. It changes like as you continue life's journey and improve on things. It definitely changes focus. But my, I probably have three things that mean success to me. Number one is like and I think I'm quite lucky because I've been able to do it across multiple businesses now not just one like having businesses that are so well structured, have incredible team members that I I don't, if I don't feel like showing up or I don't need to show up, like it just keeps operating, um, and I think a big part of success for that with me.
Speaker 3:I've only been thinking about this last couple of days. Actually, I used to get a lot of anxiety around, like I just knew if I turned my computer on, one of the emails was going to be shit. I knew each day like I was going to get one of the text messages was going to be shit. I knew one of the phone calls was going to be shit. So the other part of that part of the success is that just I don't have to worry about anything like everything, like we don't get bad emails, we don't get bad text messages, we don't get bad phone calls, and that's like we still get the problems we had before, but it's it's the way I've changed and the mindset that I have around dealing with that. So definitely having multiple businesses that can run without me is huge, um. My next one is, um, like just being able to choose when I spend time with my family. Now, like don't works, I don't need work to be the number one priority. Like, if I choose to to have an afternoon off or a weekend off or a week off or a month off, whatever I, I can do that with my family. Um, but the third one to me, mate, and to be honest, this is probably it might sound a bit weird I think this is the biggest one, even though I want to spend a lot of time with my family.
Speaker 3:I success to me is I want to earn as much money as I possibly can like so that I can help more people. I am determined to give millions back. I want to be able to help disabled people. I want to be able to donate to disabled schools because I just I've never I've been touched what I've been fortunate enough to not have, like we've got. I've got cousins and things. I've got disabled kids.
Speaker 3:But I see how much stress that puts on families and as a builder, I know how much I can do, and so for me to have enough cash that I can just go to a family and say, hey, we'll put all the disabled ramps in, we'll modify your bathrooms and just do it, that is my dream mate. I just think that would be incredible to be able to do that. The more people I can help, the better. But I think, while we're on this like sort of subject, I I do think it's really important, like I don't. I feel like not enough people, especially people in the building industry, don't take enough time to sit back and actually work out what success is for them. I think most people's success is purely based off what they see every other builder and trader do on Instagram, which I think is actually really sad.
Speaker 5:Yeah, but do they actually take the time to plan where they want to be in five years or 10 years? I mean and I'm guilty of that like early days it was just go to work every day. If you're going to work every day, you thought you were doing okay, but it's probably later in life for me, and especially since I've started getting you know, since I've met you and live life, build everything else they'll actually sit down now and actually try and make a goal. But how many in the construction industry are just in that mundane every day of getting up and going to work? Yeah, and there is no sort of end target or a bit of a target to reach to get to the next target. And I think that's probably a big thing that a lot of people need to stop and have a think about. Sit down for five minutes in their own space and work out where they're going and what they're trying to do, instead of just being the flashy ute and the flashy caravan and the flashy trailer. Maybe look at some other.
Speaker 3:Too busy living like wanting it now, like right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, living in the present and not looking towards the future, sort of thing. Yeah, and yeah, the goal side of things that's so important, which I never did early on either. I was just trying to keep the thing afloat, but it's like driving without your lights on at night you're just going and you don't know where you're going. When you have a goal and you know you're working towards it, it makes the harder days easier because you know you're still slowly, but it makes the harder days easier because you know you're still slowly but surely progressing to where you want to get to. Um, and yeah, for me, yeah, having goals and um, being able to implement small steps to be able to continue to get there has certainly made it.
Speaker 1:I think it's pretty um cliche, but you, we've thankfully and luckily got to a point where we've reached some of our goals and the goals are very fleeting in happiness. You find that the journey which is this is a cliche, but it's actually striving to get there. That's the enjoyable part and that's the part that gets you up. When you get there, you realize that the happiness isn't there, it's's in you the whole time. So if you keep putting it out there, when we get to this point, I'm going to be happy. It's never going to happen, and so it's.
Speaker 3:For me, it's about just trying to enjoy the journey and understand that I'm the creator of my happiness, not the things that I can achieve or the things that I can buy with whatever I make yeah, journey is definitely the most important part yeah like and so many people just don't enjoy the journey enough because they're it's like how many times have you wanted, like could be anything, could be a tool, could be a new vehicle, like anything but and you get it and like that was good. Literally you wake up the next day and you're like, yeah, what's?
Speaker 4:next yeah yeah, well, I've, um, I've had a. I set some really big goals this year actually and we ticked them off pretty quickly. And I'm pretty open about talking about mental health and I speak to TX and I've just finished my, I suppose, course of TX and one of the things I seeked most of my help, most of my help through TX, was reflection, and I think it's important to have goals, but it's probably equally important to reflect that those goals that you've done or half done. It's still important to count those things because, um, I mean, I I know I don't do it as well as what I probably should do and I know that's a big thing I've got to work on. But, um, yeah, just even in preparation for the podcast, I opened up my journal and read back six months ago. I was like holy shit, that's cool, and I did it At the time. I was like no way you're going to be able to do that. And now I was like that was a piece of piss. That's the reflection. Sort of a piece of piss.
Speaker 5:But yeah, I think reflection is a really, really important thing to add to, I think also too, as men, as blokes, but also in the construction industry. I don't think we give ourselves enough credit at times to reflect back and reach that point. But I don't think, and I'm guilty of it too. You never stop to smell the roses and I reckon every day my wife will stop and look at the sun of an afternoon or the morning, or. I remember before we built the new house, the old house on the farm, and I'd renovated one room and every night she'd go and turn the light on and look at the room before she went to bed. And I'm like, seriously, just sit in the loft and go to bed. I see it all the time. But she stops to appreciate those things and I think that's something that I definitely don't do enough of. Like you're saying, I think it's reflection, appreciation and the journey that's getting to that point. I think we should be taking a bit of a pat on the back for ourselves sometimes.
Speaker 1:Definitely I get caught up on at times, get caught up on looking at the ideal, how I wanted it to be, and then judging myself based on that, because it hasn't worked out to be exactly that. And there's a book, everything's audio books for me, the Gap and the Gain, and Rizer and I constantly like I'll remind him or vice versa, as we're going through something. And it's about the understanding that you know this is where you started and this is your ideal. You're somewhere in between, in the middle. If you're constantly looking at the ideal. You're somewhere in between, in the middle.
Speaker 1:If you're constantly looking at the ideal, you're looking at what you're lacking and so you're in the gap mentality, whereas if you just look in the rear view and you can see from where you started to where you've come, you realize that you may not have reached that exact goal you wanted, but geez, you've gone a long way. And that's the momentum and the confidence that it builds to get you to keep going to where you're going. And sometimes I'll slip into the gap or the gain. And it's incredible to have a group like this or any family members or friends that can sort of keep pepping you up when you need it, or sometimes a little clip across the ear to you know, you know the answer here just get out of your bad mind frame or mindset. But I think it's really important to, with reflection, to just really take appreciation of how far you have come from where you've started.
Speaker 3:That's a good segue back to what we were talking about with competition, because I think that's something that every builder and every trader should be doing. They should be looking at where they are and where they've come from and not worrying about how many jobs they've got on and the type of jobs and the value of jobs and how much turnover they have. Reflect on where you started and where you've come to now. That's the most important.
Speaker 1:And there's so many incremental things that can change. That that's the most important. And there's so many incremental things that can change. And, let's say, even the finances haven't changed from a year to a year um, for profit reasons, but you've implemented, like an inquiry form or a website, which has freed up your time instead of taking phone calls to potential tire kickers. You've got all these different things that you've implemented, which has made your business more systemized and made you have more time to do things that bring value. That is going to catapult you. You just have to keep doing those things incrementally. And I could just look at the account and go, well, it's another year, I've worked my ass off, and for what? But the reality is we've come a huge, long way in 12 months and it's by looking at those things is what gets me out of bed and wants me to keep going.
Speaker 5:Um holy shit well, anthony's bought his a game today.
Speaker 1:He's like yeah that's all I got.
Speaker 3:All right, I'm out godfather, junior, that's um mate, that's another. Like that, what you just said there is so important as well. Because you look at, I do like I'm pretty strong, like I do believe that you're um, you're fun, like you're I call it your report card. Like your asset liability statement at the end of financial year, like it's the only thing we've got to really relate to when you leave school, like that's, that's how far you've come. But it doesn't.
Speaker 3:Like you said, you can look at the bank account and where it's at and it might not. Like you might have earned 200 grand last year and this year you've only you've earned 200 grand again. But the asset liability sheet will show you that you've paid money off houses, you've paid money off vehicles, you've like you've gained a lot in there, but even though the, the amount you've earned may be the same as the year before, if you've implemented stuff, like you just mentioned, your inquiry form you might have put some systems in place. You understand your overheads. You've got to think about the hours as well, because you might have earned the same amount of money, but maybe you've only worked four days a week instead of six days a week or been more, more present at home with the kids.
Speaker 3:Maybe you've been more present, that's right, maybe you've got two days a week, you've picked the kids up from school. There's a lot more in life than the dollar value. Yeah, I guess that's what I'm trying to say. Your success has to be based on far more than just what the accountants told you you've earned at the end of the year. Because if you earn two hundred thousand dollars a year and you've worked six, seven days a week, you're going to work when the sun's coming up, you're coming home, the kids are in bed and you're not getting time with any family. Or you're earning 200 grand a year. You're working the hours you want to work, you're spending time with friends and family, you're going on holidays. That's a massive, massive gain yeah, yeah, there's.
Speaker 5:There's 100 grand's worth of spare time there that you've got back. So in the bank you've got 200, but technically you've made 300 for the year because you're using your own time the way you want to do it. Isn't that great?
Speaker 1:These are light bulbs even for me, as we're saying, because it just reminds me how good things are and being able to hopefully hear this and other people listening can make sense of that that it's not all the dollar values. How has this year looked versus last year? Have I been as stressed? Have I got some more tools in the mental toolbox to be able to cater to stresses that come through business? They're all incredible gains that, like I said, said, are still going to just catapult you to where you know the money will come, um, or the extra time will come. Whatever it is that you're working towards, as long as you keep um, you know, positive and keep looking at where you've come from, I think you're in a good stead to keep, yeah, thriving yeah, the world's so focused on dollar values, but that's and our industry is bad for it.
Speaker 3:Like you, um, it's all perception, isn't it really like? Again, like you see the guy with the, the big truck and the flash tool trailer and might look like he's doing more work with you, but maybe you're on top of all your debt and maybe he's in debt to the eyeballs. Like I really think people just need to focus on themselves. You said before, anthony, you got to run your own race, so that's pretty important. Gee, we're getting pretty deep down some.
Speaker 1:Well, that's what we do. This is what we're, the band of brothers, as our A-team that we call ourselves, and we need to also shout out we've got an incredible team. It's not just us three that are talking every week, but, yeah, it's by having these conversations and letting people in, letting each other in on what's going on. Um, that has created a bit of a bromance really I think that's an understatement.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I think it is I think I think like we're the instigators in the a team, but we've definitely got people that come on board, that have sat back. But just through our persistence we're now a lot more active. Persistence is a funny word actually. Yeah, it's a little bit annoyance maybe Annoyance, you know what I mean. Yeah, but definitely we've got good interaction in our A-team and I think we all help each other in some way, shape or form.
Speaker 4:I think I'd like to ask the group like um, a lot of guys that would be listening to this podcast would be, you know, could be in a, in a pretty low spot, um, where obviously and I hate to put a dampener on it, but we're obviously everyone at this table's had a bad like a bad experience in building and stuff like that, what would you guys suggest the best thing you could do if you're in a dark spot? It's a bit of a loaded question. I think we all know that we should be talking to people. What would be the first thing you did? If you're just starting out and you've just promised a client that you can do it for $100,000 and you've blown your budget and you're just completely just dismissing your ability to do anything, what would you do?
Speaker 5:I think a couple of you. Well, if you're in a bad spot, you want to be ringing tx? Yeah, um, so you can help with that. But I think you've got to find someone that you can. You can talk to some sort of mentor that's going to help you through. Yeah, I don't know, it's like you said, it's a bit of a funny question, but unless you're sort of in that position but I think you've got to reach out You've got to put anything aside, no matter how bad it looks, because you've got to move forward. You can't say where you are or go backwards, which is going to be a pretty bad state. So I think you've just got to reach out. Um, you know whether that's someone like duane or one of us guys, or even just someone a neighbor, a friend, you know, another colleague, whatever but I think that's where you've got to start, because there's a lot of bravery in in doing that, I believe.
Speaker 4:Yeah, definitely like it takes balls to know that you're in a bad spot and to be able to talk to people and to reach out and ask for help. Yeah, definitely, I just think that talking to one another or to anybody that you look up to or anyone that could have potentially been in the same position. There's so much value in that. And you'll find pretty quickly you'll bring yourself out of that spot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely, like Craig said, reach out to the guys at TX. That would be first and foremost. But I believe that's another reason why Live Life Build is so successful because you, when you like, because we get a lot of members that are in that place when they first sign up and like we say all the time, like, if you want to get somewhere, you've got to talk to people that have been through what you're going through and are like, if you want to get somewhere, you've got to talk to people that have been through what you're going through and are achieving things that you want to achieve. But I think that something that's overlooked and maybe not spoken about enough is you've got to do whatever it takes. Like you can't just like I was very guilty for it. You can't just blame the client, the industry, your apprenticeship, your boss. Like you've got to do whatever it takes and, um, I feel like there's a lot of young tradies and builders out there that they take on jobs. They under quote them and they learn very quickly that they're they're in too deep. They don't know what they're doing. They look we've talked about before on our individual podcasts like they, um, they've just seen the gear rocking up the site. They don't. They know what they're doing We've talked about before on our individual podcast. They've just seen the gear rocking up the site. They don't understand all the behind the scenes. They've realized they're in the shit. So you've got to do whatever it takes.
Speaker 3:If you're going to do your ass, how are you getting to work? You got a vehicle. Sell the vehicle, buy a cheaper vehicle. You've got to be prepared to make a loss so you can get out of it and move on and not make the same mistakes next time. And I'm I do see a lot of people that just I don't know if it's a pride thing or whatever, but they just keep digging themselves a deeper hole because they're they're not, they're too afraid to put their hand up and say I fucked up, I didn't know what. I didn't know. I I'm going to do my ass. And they just dig them. They lead to depression, anxiety and all sorts of things go bankrupt. Like there's no shame in fucking shit off. Sell your tool trailers. Like put your tools in the back of the ute, get some cash in, use that to cover the job. Like there is things that everybody can do to get themselves out of the shit. You've just got to suck it up. Take some ownership.
Speaker 5:Take some ownership. Just own it, yeah, and you'll come out the other side better once you've owned it, got through it. Yeah, you still might be in a bad place financially and hopefully mentally you'll be better off. Yeah, but you know for the next time, yeah, and then reach out and get some, but the quicker you and you.
Speaker 3:And look, I shouldn't probably say because, touch wood, I've never been divorced, I'm happily married, but I've got. I don't know what's going on.
Speaker 3:But I in the last 12, 18 months, two years, like so many of our close friends are separating, yeah, and they just turn into these ugly messes where they're bitching and fighting and carrying on and I keep saying to my mates like just just cut your losses, like just get rid of it, sell your shit up and start again. Don't spend the next five years rooting around with things. I think it's the same as business. Like Craig said, suck it up. Most people will have shit they can sell. I'm sure a lot of these people that are struggling and having hard times they've still got a trail bike. They go trail bike riding on having hard times. They've still got a trail bike. They go trail bike riding on the weekend. Or they still got a flash road bike, they go. Well, they've still got a gym membership. Or they're still buying their coffee every morning, like yeah, there is shit that everybody can do, that can.
Speaker 3:There's always a way.
Speaker 1:There's always a way I think that's super important. We're talking about, you know, reaching out, and it's it is. It's so important to find someone that you feel comfortable to talk to and if you don't, then find someone like tx, where they're trained and skilled to be able to help you out in those darker moments. But it's about also, yeah, taking ownership and making a game plan for me.
Speaker 1:When we've had some troubling times early on, I'm a catastrophizer and so you know, I think the world's ending. I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna lose the house that we've got, you know, the roof over our head we've worked so hard for. But once you get it out and you also get it out and chat to someone who's not emotionally charged in that environment you can set a plan and then work towards getting there. And once you've got a game plan, it just takes that bit of load off your shoulders and you know that little bit of light starts popping out again. Um, but it all starts with communicating, first and foremost, and then starting to put a plan in action. Uh, plan in place to start actioning.
Speaker 5:I think maybe, like you said, you just need to talk to someone who's going to tell you things you don't want to hear yeah, like no you're talking to your, your best mate, because he's going to say she's all right, mate, you're okay. You need to go talk to your accountant or somebody that's going to say to you, like you said, you need to sell some shit.
Speaker 3:Well, not not only that mate. So when I was in my dark days I talked, called one of my old man's mates, like he like when I was early 30s. He was I don't know, he would have been in his, probably his late 50s, 60s and he basically just told me what I just said. Yeah, he's like fuck, sell your shit, dwayne. Yeah what do you? What do you complain about? Like you're in the shit, fucking sell shit and get out of it.
Speaker 4:Yeah and we're in an age that is there wouldn't be more available to do. Those like tx, like we're all massive advocates for it, but like 10, 20, probably not even 10 years ago, there wasn't platforms like that that existed. To to, to be able to be vulnerable, to really just give them a call for free, for a start. That's amazing, so there's no excuse not to do it.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, like we said earlier, it takes balls to do it, but just do it.
Speaker 5:You'll be better for it in the long run Look.
Speaker 3:Anthony, well, that was in our individual podcast. You said, mate, you shouldn't just leave it to you in that dark hole either. Yeah, like an individual podcast. Like you said, mate, you shouldn't just leave it until you're in that dark hole either. Yeah, like, I had a meeting with TX yesterday about some stuff and that's what they were saying like, just ring up, you don't have to be in a hole like just ring up, check in, talk through stuff. Like even if you only I want to get Shay to look up catastrophizer you got a picture of me. I'm sure it's a word.
Speaker 5:I was really good at England at school see, I think that comes back to what we were talking about earlier about collaborating with other builders and stuff like that. I think that if the more you communicate and realise that the other builder down the road is not your enemy, I think we're all better off, yeah, mentally, financially, you know, because there's more than enough work out there for all of us yeah, to take on and do.
Speaker 5:But I think that's really important, that we try to get rid of that stigma of you know it comes back to that, like you said, that, the tendering aspect of it, whereas I don't want to tell you what I'm quoting on this job, because you're quoting the same job and we could be $300 difference. That could be the difference between me or you winning the job. So we're not talking, you know, even though I might see you every second day at the hardware store. So I think, now that this is starting to open up and more people are starting to realize that you might be quoting the job and I'm quoting the job, and if we have a chat about it, well then go. Well, hey, that job's not really for me, maybe that job is better for you, yeah, and I'll close that door and open another door instead of thinking you know, this is my younger days that every job I had to have, I had to go to work every day.
Speaker 5:I had to have a job because I needed to support my family. Yeah, where? Now I'm like okay, well, I can say yes and no to jobs. Yeah, and that comes with time and experience. But we need to get the younger generation of builders and tradies coming through, realizing that they've got that opportunity now and not have to go through the heartache and stuff that we've been through and the stress and those sort of things.
Speaker 3:But look at what the race to the bottom has fucked every industry really. You think?
Speaker 3:about the race like cheaper food. We've now just got shit, mass produced food with no nutrients or goodness in it. It's literally just fucking chemicals. Same with our pharmaceutical Race to the bottom there we're just popping pills that are full of shit. And they've done the same thing with the housing industry the race to the bottom.
Speaker 3:You've got all these volume-built homes. I shouldn't throw them all under the bus because some of them are good, but we've created an industry where people are living in homes that are lower than the building code yeah, like they don't even meet code, a lot of them and which we're now like I I am a little bit nervous about the next sort of 10 to 20 years in australia, because a lot of I do feel like a lot of these and, look, I'm probably guilty, I built her homes 10 years ago that I, I, with what I know now, I shouldn't have used certain products or done certain things. So we're going to have this whole period of people living in homes that those homes are affecting their health. Yeah, and that's all caused by this race to the bottom, like I believe. Anyway, I'm not sure what your guys' opinions is.
Speaker 1:And the whole tender process and race to the bottom. You could be fresh out of your time and get your license. You've got minimal overheads and so your price versus someone who has a team and has people in the office like it just doesn't correlate. Like you, my price would be a hundred thousand dollars more expensive than someone else because I've got a lot more overheads. Anyone listening, client wise, that's not the case but, like the reality is it's? Completely different it's not.
Speaker 1:They could build the exact same house and use all the same material, but in order to keep their business running and hopefully they understand their overheads, they will be more expensive than someone who doesn't. And the person who does know their overheads and would charge more will then also be around, hopefully in the next 10 years, if anything did go wrong, whereas potentially the person who doesn't know their figures might go belly up because they do their ass on the first one.
Speaker 3:Well, that's what the tendering scenario has created. It blows my mind that highly educated university degree designers, architects, that push these tendering scenarios.
Speaker 2:I'm going to fall back on what I was going to say there.
Speaker 3:Like you can't. Like how can you expect two builders to have the same like the same cost? Like it's just, it's impossible. In your example, anthony, it's perfect. Like just the overhead let alone. So, number one, you've got the overhead, so you're going to have a guy that could be on the tools with an apprentice. He's going to be far cheaper and far less overheads than someone that's got multiple supervisors, work vehicles, phones, all those types of things. So that's only one part of it. And then you've got the way that they actually build. There's four of us here. I guarantee you the, the way that they actually build. Like there's four of us here. I go into the four of us all framed differently, so there's going to be different costs in our materials. Like there's going to be different costs in the time, like the speed. Like all four of us would be different in like to take longer or shorter to hang a door, like yeah I'm the quickest joking craigs.
Speaker 3:There's so many things that come into play, and I just think it's absolute madness that people think they can put out to tender and get a good result out of it and that's that education.
Speaker 1:Isn't it making people understand that that's not the case, and we've had a lot of luck with um. Some architects we work with they're all for it, they're very open um to the pre-construction and understanding that it's a win for everyone. Um, uh, but it is still breaking that stigma, not even stigma, just the habit of that's well, that's how we do it and you know that's how. When I started my building company, I did what I had learned and so I didn't know any better and thought that was how you build and that's how you run a business and incrementally tried to change things. But I was so far off it and it's not until I educated myself and it also landed a few fair few times on my face and had to pay for it that I, you know, the penny dropped, and here we are today.
Speaker 5:But part of that too is I'm not not like a text on all designers, but they might be able to draw nice pretty pictures, but a lot of them don't understand the actual construction process, method and cost. And I know myself I've been involved with a few different designers and stuff at different times and then you bring your first round of costings through and the client's like what the hell? We said we've got an $800,000 budget and you're 1.2. And I'm like, yeah, because that's what you're trying to build. No, no, but he said we could do this for 800. I'm like, yeah, but you physically can't. I'm 50% dearer. I'm not like 50 grand or 100 grand. And then you start explaining to the client and they're like oh, but that's not what we discussed, and rah, rah, rah, but that's. You know that education. So comes back to your thing with the pre-construct, getting the builder involved. But it's still happening that there's still plans being drawn and being set out and clients have given false expectations on cost.
Speaker 4:Unfortunately, that'll probably always happen, though, because it's always going to be about the dollar. But it's.
Speaker 3:For certain people it will be yeah it is, but the education is.
Speaker 4:It's not just as our role as a builder to educate the client.
Speaker 4:I believe it's equally important to educate the designer as well yeah because they, they, I'd love to, I wanted to be an architect before, I wanted to be a builder but and they can do some beautiful things on plans and stuff like that, but they don't know what it costs as well. But it's our job. I see it as our job to educate everybody, not just the client, is to like the realistic of what things cost. That that's going to benefit everybody and the earlier the better.
Speaker 1:The earlier the better, because if we've already got concepts that the even concept designs that the clients have fallen in love with, but you know the size of it is not going to work with their budget, then you're already pushing shit uphill, yeah I think like there's just so many parts of it like we're.
Speaker 3:We're having a little bit of a situation with a couple of jobs at the moment and I've really been sort of digging deep to figure out why, um, it's happened so and a lot of it's come back to like you've got reps out there that are visiting all these designers and architects and trying to flog all these new products and trying to set expectations and selling them this dream of what it's going to look like when it's finished.
Speaker 3:But there's a lot of reps out there that have never worked in a trade, have never actually physically installed or cut or use a product. That reps out there that have never worked in a trade have never actually physically installed or cut or used a product that they're selling. They've never even gone and visited whatever it might be the cabinet maker, the stonemason, the tiler to get feedback or knowledge on their product, and so you have this very false expectation. So one of the scenarios is there's a new timber paneling feature product out there and they've put heaps of it in this house and it's come back at like $90,000 or something and for not a huge amount, like two rooms and then a couple of feature walls.
Speaker 3:And they're like oh, the rep told us it was only 380 a sheet and I'm like well, number one, did you have a thing about how many sheets you need? But did you even ask him about the backing, like what it gets installed to the substrate, like all the labor that's involved to do it? Yeah, oh no, they told us it was piece of piss. You just put it on your normal stud framework, like so there's there. Like as builders, we're like we're getting pulled from so many directions, yeah, and like it keeps coming back to education.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you've really got to educate everybody and yourself, like with you know, there's always some new cladding, there's always something that we need to understand how it needs to be put on so that we can price accordingly.
Speaker 1:Like we can't just assume you know the assuming that word that can cost you a fortune. We need to make sure we see, like, the information required, um, how to put it on, how we need to do it, so we can work out the labor component, and that takes time. So when we just get thrown something you know I'm a bit of a we keep going back to people pleasing, but I want to give the answers the clients want to hear, but that's not to their benefit, because if I just say something to make that conversation nice and comfortable, then and there it's going to bite me in the ass weeks down the track when I can't renege on the fact that I said I could do something that I can't or it's going to cost something which it's going to cost much more. So taking a little bit of pause to be able to get a bit of space to understand those things and learn what you need to do in those environments to give the right prices, it's pretty important.
Speaker 3:There's a bonfire starting over there. I've got nothing.
Speaker 1:I don't know, what to do with my hands.
Speaker 5:He's got nuggets going everywhere. This is what happened.
Speaker 1:This is what we talk about collaboration. So, yeah, hanging out with these guys via whatsapp, mind you, because they live in interstate. I'm around this all the time now and any, anytime I have any queries, I get these guys and the rest of the a team and the rest of live life build. So, um, you can't help but have some of it rub off on you.
Speaker 4:So I'm slowly getting a little bit more like we, anthony and I talk probably every couple of days and to the point where we actually share a va now. Um, he's in melbourne, I'm in shell harbour or woollongong sort of area how's that work?
Speaker 3:a lot of fun, yeah va um is in.
Speaker 1:Uh, do you remember what town exactly it is? No, no, anyway, philippines, jira, and he's incredible. He's amazing, and so he currently works for me Monday, tuesday, wednesdays and with Verizon Thursday, fridays, and we're going to tweak that a bit where we need to. But, yeah, we run the same or very similar system, so any recipes that get put in sort of correlate um, anything that's slightly different. He has access to both our um softwares, um, but so far it's been pretty seamless, for, like, we've been pretty fortunate because I've got um two other vas in our business uh, food administration and social media as well now.
Speaker 4:So I've been able to take what I've learned with them and sort of implement the estimating side, because I was finding the weakness in my business and probably the area where I could probably I could put myself in other areas of the business to bring more value to the business was I needed help in estimating. I didn't run the overheads, was able to run the overheads, couldn't afford to um use a in-house estimator in australia, so just put two and two together, basically. And then anthony was in the same similar situation where he was. He's got a lot of of that sort of thing on the on the table and so far it's been, yeah, it's revolutionized the.
Speaker 1:It's only been what a month and a bit, but yeah, if I wasn't married, I might marry Jire, I think yeah.
Speaker 4:What he's put into the business has just been amazing. But what I'm equally as proud of is that we've developed a relationship where we can share that and look bounce off each other Like that's amazing.
Speaker 3:Vas are unbelievable, eh yeah, their skills and their qualifications, and just I think Jare is a structural or civil engineer. Yeah, but I think I'm not sure like we've got five across our businesses now and what really amazes me is their thirst to impress, like if you give them something to do and they don't know it, like they will go and study and learn it and come back to you and go, hey, I think we need to do this, this, this is this. Like yeah, where else? Like you don't get that here in australia.
Speaker 1:yeah, you would love that on site, wouldn't you? Again? My team's amazing um, yeah, and like again with working with riser or alongside riser he's he's taught me, um, how to use a loom recording. So, um, I would never have done that stuff, um, I would never have known where to look, um, and to have someone in the group and um, in live, life, build and just in the industry to show me how he does things and how much he's seen benefit.
Speaker 1:So Loom 21 Listen is like a video recording of your screen. You can have your happy little face there as well and show people how you go about things. So, whether you're in your software, your quoting software or whatever, and what you would like done or how you do things, then you can record that and send that to someone else so that they can always go back to it and see how it's done. So they can then mimic it. That's been huge for us because I can now learn from what ryan's done, implement what I want to, and then when I've implemented something, I can send it back to ryan or our va and it's there forever. So if we have anyone else that comes into the business that we need to help get up to speed. They've got a whole library.
Speaker 3:What if they're not in your business? You might have to hook the Godfather up here with them. Well, we've already discussed this. Don't worry, we've already been discussing.
Speaker 1:We're dabbling.
Speaker 4:But I like the idea because you can do it once and it's done. If you're set on your process and you do your recording around that, or you might do your recording around that or, um, you know, you might do your company, company manager or like an introduction of your company, and you want to, you've onboarding a new, you know, apprentice or a new carpenter and you can say this is, this is the way we do things, this is how we log our time sheets, this is all that sort of stuff. So it's saving time and they're the things that you learn collaborating with other guys.
Speaker 3:So definitely yeah yeah, it's bloody awesome. Um, I mentioned at the beginning we're going to talk a little bit east and west, so what's? Uh, uh like? There definitely seems to be a bit of a gap between the eastern side of australia and the western side of australia. They reckon west is best. I've never been there, but, um, like, uh there's a lot of building work going on there.
Speaker 3:We've got um western australian members in in livelock build and I know they struggle with like obviously we do live events and things. It's a long way for them to come, yeah, but how like there does seem to be a lot more collaboration with builders on the eastern side of austral over there. Is it just the gap, the distance?
Speaker 1:I don't know. I don't really have an answer there, because we obviously do run all up the east coast. How have we stunned Anthony today? I'm not sure, because I know Nathan and Kelly are over in the west and I get along like a house on fire with those guys. It's a distance thing.
Speaker 4:I don't think they've got any better builders or we've got better builders here or anything like that. I honestly think it's just a distance thing. I mean, we've got quite a few mates in the middle in South Australia. I don't think there's any NT members, I'm not sure, but there's some bloody inspirational guys all over the state and and they're all great in their own way. I honestly think it's a distance thing.
Speaker 1:so I guess it is because the connections that we make the tiredest are the ones like sorry, nathan cal, they've come to live events and so I've met them face to face and we see everyone on our facebook groups and whatever else, but it's that connection, seeing each other, is the one that sort of really um, uh, what is it? Solidifies it, um, but I don't know, I don't know yeah I've used all my big words, so maybe we do have to get over the West and start connecting with the Westies.
Speaker 3:But even on Instagram I don't get a lot of Western Australia builders.
Speaker 4:I get more American builders pop up on my socials than I do. Western Australian builders Might be the algorithm there.
Speaker 3:Is it because?
Speaker 5:their style of building is different. I reckon that's a lot to do with it, because a lot of the west is your carpenters are really just roof framers, yeah, you know, and maybe fit out and stuff like that, because there's so much masonry being done over there. Is it that they just don't have the content or they don't show it as much or they don't interact as much because we're building? You know that variance of style of building maybe.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I do think that's a lot to do with it, but, um, it does. From what I can see, it does look like there's a lot of lightweight construction starting to come in over there. So they're obviously doing different things with their tight end and stuff. But yeah, I don't know for any west aussies listening like reach out, yeah, I've never thought of that.
Speaker 1:like I see a lot of um, you know, tassie builders all up the coast and South Australia. But yeah, what is it? Forrester Coast is the ones that I always see from WA and they do incredible work. But outside of them I don't know if I follow any other builder over that side, and so I don't really have it in my feed, but there's got to be incredible.
Speaker 3:I'm going to put West Australia builder in my Instagram and see what comes up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's got to be incredible. I'm going to type West Australia Builder in my Instagram and see what comes up. Yeah, there's got to be incredible builders, because that's my whole feed is just building. To be fair, I haven't really been searching for a WA builder, though, and notice if it's them or not, but when you see Margaret River, you don't forget it.
Speaker 3:What else do you want to get out today, guys? Or what do you want to talk about?
Speaker 4:You've been quiet.
Speaker 5:Craig, I don't need to talk because Anthony's taking a look young people in the industry.
Speaker 3:How do we encourage more of them to get in the industry and how do we keep them?
Speaker 5:keeping them? That's a good question. I think it's keeping them. I think we've got to make them passionate, and that's a big one. Like who do they work for is the start, isn't it?
Speaker 5:I'm a little bit chuffed at the moment because before we went away to New Zealand two days beforehand, a young tradie we had left for his own probably mental reasons and had some family issues. And four and a half weeks later he came back and I thought that was really good. And then we've just put a fourth year apprentice on and he's just um started with us and he told me after the first week that he was talking to the other tradie and he gave us a really good rap and that's why he come back. And the fourth year apprentice said well, I know I'm in the right place now.
Speaker 5:So I think the, the mentorship and the team and the culture and all that sort of thing I think is really important for those apprentices that want to come in and young tradies and stuff. I think you've got to make them, give them enough responsibility that they can have a go and achieve something. And I think that's really important too, that if they're making little steps and little goals themselves, it encourages them to want to do better. You know you can't have an apprentice that's two years in and he's still on the broom.
Speaker 5:I think you've got to give them that responsibility and make some mistakes, but explain to them why and how, give them the big why and then make them hungry to want to keep growing and developing because we are losing a lot of people out of the industry.
Speaker 1:I think that's super important. I know I certainly put my hand up and can attest to the fact that I was a bit of a helicopter parent certainly to one of the apprentices who now is qualified, and it was only when he brought it to my attention that it wasn't helping him. I think he pulled out a George Orwell 1984 quote or something, so it's meant to be loosely about big brother. He's like, okay, you smartass. But then the very next day I came to work and I let him be the boss and he was third year maybe at the time, or late third, early fourth, and I got him to explain what he needs to do for the day and how he's going to do it and what he wants me to do, and he started to thrive and I then, you know, looked back and that's how I thrived, because I was pushing brooms and, mind you, it was probably the cleanest site you'd ever seen. But it was only when I got thrown in the deep end that I also was engaged on site I actually wanted.
Speaker 1:I had to learn because I was the one that was responsible for it, and so I think that's really important and I think the vetting um early on, before we take them on is to make sure that the person who is getting involved really wants to do it. It's not just I need to do a trade. So you know this person knows this person, so I'll do it. You really want to. You want to learn and be a carpenter? Yeah, you don't want to just be doing it because you need a trade. Yeah, I think that's important too.
Speaker 5:You've got to have passion yeah, carpentry is not an easy profession. It's a very for me it's a very rewarding profession, but there's days when it's hot, there's days when it's cold, it's wet. You're digging holes, you know, if you're doing the whole aspect of the project. So there's got to be some passion in there and if you're just coming, like you said, for a, they're not going to last.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think patience is something we could instill in our apprentices in particular, because when they finish their time, everybody wants to earn like the top dollar, and it's naive to think that because I mean, we've all spoken about it in the past Like just because you signed off as a carpenter, that doesn't make you a carpenter, and I think we're all.
Speaker 3:Got to earn your stripes, mate, yeah.
Speaker 4:I would say you need at least four years as being a qualified carpenter to actually potentially go out on your own and do your own thing.
Speaker 4:I think patience is probably a thing we could probably try and instill in, and it's not going to happen all straight away. It's probably hard to do that for young blokes, because young dudes want everything all at once. But um, maybe training, like educating them at on site, and stuff like that, it's not all going to happen straight away. So I mean, it didn't happen for me straight out of my apprenticeship, that's for sure.
Speaker 4:But um, and there was heaps of learning curves from that. But I mean it's platforms like podcasts and memberships and stuff like that, talking about those things and encouraging them to listen to these podcasts as well. There's heaps of value in that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's a hard one. I don't know what the answer is yet, but yeah, I do think that's got a lot to do with it, both that patience and, um, yeah, I don't know I don't know like hard work it's just like they, everyone. Well, it's like everyone in it. They want the paycheck but they don't want to. Yeah, necessarily do it, but um, I think if you the people they're working.
Speaker 1:If you have created a culture where people you know they know what they're doing each day you're working through it, and so the younger guys or mature age apprentices that come into the business can see that everyone is doing something and it's done at a pace, but also at a quality, then that just bleeds into how they'll then do it as well. Quality, then, that just bleeds into how they'll then do it as well. If, if it's a bit of a shit show with your other trades and they're trying to learn, but they're seeing how that is, that's their baseline of what they think they need to get to. Yeah, so, um, yeah, it's about sort of making sure when you do take someone on, you're also, you know, showing a good example of what it needs to be and what you're expecting of them. So, um, which, which you know. That's a positive thing, because it means it keeps everyone on their toes and makes sure that you're always showing up to the best of your ability.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I think you have a responsibility. If you take a young trader, you're an apprentice, especially an apprentice. You've got a responsibility, a duty of care to them, to do your utmost to educate them and give them every opportunity, and then it comes back to the individual. But you've still got to be able to take that responsibility. I think If you're not going to put the time into them, I don't think you should be taking them on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's my view on it. Yeah, yeah, they need to. I do feel that there's a lot of as builders. There's a lot more Like we do need to take some more responsibility, and again that comes back to costing jobs correctly, making sure you've got the time in there, so your team and yourself can spend enough time with them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, um, because, yeah, I think that's a huge issue why we've got a lot of unskilled trades like I. I feel like there's a lot of builders out there that use apprentices as a cheap labor, like my, my, really my business is that there's never any one more apprentice to two tradies, like I know. You see builders that have five apprentices to one tradie, like it's just it's how can they learn from that?
Speaker 5:yeah, you know, they're purely. They just used to be laborers. That's what they're doing, aren't they? Yeah, I remember we did a job nearly 20 years ago and I had um three apprentices at the time and we had two tradies myself and another mature tradie he was older than me and there was a builder down the road and he came up one afternoon and he said to me what are you doing with all these apprentices? And I said, well, I'm teaching them to be carpenters. And he's like well, what do you mean? And I said you know, we were doing fix out at the time and two of them were out the front with cape and sore and they're doing scribing and stuff like that. And once they got good enough to keep bringing showing me, well, then they do inside the wardrobes.
Speaker 5:Anyway, his attitude was he would get apprentices from the training companies, use them, put his frames up, put these trusses up, maybe a couple other things, and then you get rid of them. And then he just finished the project by himself. So he was using them basically as a laborer. But those guys weren't being taught anything. No skill set, no reasoning. You know, they just get hammered all day to go, go, go, and they were just labourers. And then they go to the next bloke and the next bloke, and that's what they did.
Speaker 3:Our industry has allowed that to happen, Mark, because you have these training organisations that literally have apprentices for labour hire?
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 3:Like it should never have been allowed by a government. Like if you do an apprenticeship, you should be signed up to a builder for that term and obviously, if they can't keep work or whatever, you can swap to another builder. But apprentices shouldn't be something you can ring a training company up and say, hey, I need someone for four weeks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's ridiculous because they don't have the skill set, they're vulnerable I know it's super dangerous not to mention they're not going to at all get the learning they need to and they do their time, like we said, and they've got nowhere near the skills they need to to be classified as a qualified carpenter. I think taking responsibility to the or giving power to the apprentices or potential apprentices I think it's really important for them to use social media for good, I guess. But just look around at what builders are in the area and see if you do want to become a good carpenter and potentially a builder down the track, what do you want to build? And see what's out there and see how they operate and reach out to them. There's nothing better than someone that pesters you for a job and you can see that they're keen.
Speaker 1:A good personality and eagerness. That's the formula. Everything else you can teach, but it's just someone who's been bred well, I guess, like just a person who's got good values and who's eager to learn. It's perfect. That's what you want. Yeah, that's what any builder wants, I think. I think I could probably speak for yeah yeah, so what?
Speaker 3:uh? I guess just go around one thing, like for any young people listening that are thinking about being an apprentice, or like what's one tip that you can give them to be successful come to work with a good attitude.
Speaker 5:I tell all my guys I can teach them any school they need to have, but I can't teach them attitude. That's the big one for me. If they come, you know, in the right headspace, wanting to learn, wanting to listen, have a go. I'm all for input coming back, but just have the attitude and then we'll teach the schools from there yeah yeah.
Speaker 4:It's a little, I would say, on top of that like commitment. So like if you, if you want to do a carpentry apprenticeship, don't say, oh yeah, I'll give it a month, sort of thing. You've really got to commit because it gets better and better, like I've been doing it for nearly 20 years and I'm enjoying it more now than what I did my first two years as a carpenter. So commit to it and don't just be like, oh, this is hard, two years as a cup.
Speaker 4:So commit to it and don't just be like, oh, this is hard, I'm going to do something else. But life's hard. Just you're going to be able to yeah, to break through those we only get back what you put in yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think, um, the best thing is to just have a growth mindset. Um, understand that the day you think you know everything is the day you stop learning. And yeah, with an ever-changing building industry, like there's a million ways to do something. So it then gives you the ability to listen to everyone who's talking to you on site as you go through your apprenticeship and you become fourth and you've got people underneath you. There's things that my apprentices have told me about how they do something and why they do it, and I'm like, yeah, that'll work and that's actually probably more efficient. But if I thought, no, no, I'm the boss, then I'm actually. It's to the detriment of my business if I wasn't listening.
Speaker 3:What about respect? I think they need to like. A lot of them need to actually respect that they've been given a job Like take it seriously.
Speaker 4:I think we've spoken about it before around the Christmas time, I think it's a somewhat expectation that they get Christmas bonuses. I think I've probably heard it on the podcast. You guys, and you've definitely said it you used to give your boss a box. Not that I need a box of beer or anything like that, but you used to be like I box. Not that I need a box of beer or anything like that, but you used to be like I've got a job thank you like yeah, that I think that is.
Speaker 4:I don't think that's just like in the carpentry sort of thing, that's that's, that's, that's the big picture, yeah yeah, but um, yeah, I think that that'd be pretty important to appreciate having a job that's huge, yeah, yeah, I think that appreciation has gone a lot, you know.
Speaker 5:I mean, I remember myself as an apprentice, um, and a young, young worker. You were happy to go to work, you had a job yeah you're grateful for that. Yeah, whereas they seem to sort of chop and change so much these days, it's just that appreciation isn't there. Yeah, you know, and they don't. I don't think they fully understand what's involved in keeping them on a job every day. Yeah, you know, that's the other thing too yeah, mate, I'll give someone any.
Speaker 3:Any worker not doesn't have to be an apprentice, but any worker that shows me respect, that they are grateful to have their job.
Speaker 3:I will help out as much as I possibly can yeah, like the small things, like yeah, I'm not a big drinker, but like even just a card at christmas time, like just anything to like. We've got a couple of employees that do it, but yeah it's. I think it's few and far between these days. Yeah, every employer I've ever worked for I've always given a gift on their birthday and their and christmas time. Yeah, because, um it's, it takes a lot to employ people, so yeah, it's a mutual.
Speaker 1:It's a mutual, isn't it? Because we obviously are appreciative and respectful of our employees, our team, but when it does come back the other way, it is a bit of a shock at times. I'm a little bit on the outer from you guys, because last year two of my three tradesmen bought me a gift for Chrissy, and I must admit it was the first time I'd ever got anything. But I was taken back back. I thought it was incredible, um, and that just showed me that we're on the right track with our team. Um, we, we do have, uh, mutual respect for each other and um, yeah, I think it's. It's really beneficial and helpful towards reaching our goals, not only as a company but individually, because we've gone through and worked out what each of us are trying to achieve. And so how can I, as the business owner, benefit? Sorry, how can I, as a business owner, help you get to there? And then how can you help me get to my goals and our team goals? And that builds the respect as well. So keep bringing gifts, boys.
Speaker 5:Well, one of my guys about three years ago actually gave me a birthday present, but he gave it to me a little slowly in the afternoon, so no one else knew about it, and I sort of felt bad for him the fact that he had to give it to me without everyone else knowing what was it. It was a really old eggbeater drill, you know. You know what was it? Uh was a really old um eggbeater drill, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, because I collect old yeah have you shown me?
Speaker 3:yeah, your office.
Speaker 5:I've got, you know, a big glass cutter with them in there, yeah, and he'd been out somewhere, a secondhand shop, and found it and put a little bag and brought it to work and had a card and stuff in there.
Speaker 1:That's that's thoughtful, like that's the thing that gets me my wife um har on. We've had some really thoughtful gifts from our clients, like really well thought out. One of them, for example, was like the local cafe to the job. When we first started the job, they got us a voucher for the coffee shop up the street which in Melbourne yeah, we love our coffees. But I was taken back by that. We hadn't even started yet and they were appreciative of our pre-construction and what we'd done to that point. And, yeah, my wife always says, like these are the thoughtful gifts that you, you know you should do these for the boys and for maybe other people in the family and I can definitely work on that. But like thoughtful gifts, like that of something that you clearly you know have an eagerness to continue to, get.
Speaker 5:Well, a good little tip for your wife. This week Lee's made cupcakes. I took them to work for Smoko. Yes, boys love them eh.
Speaker 1:Did you take full credit? No, no, no, good man. No, no, no, no Nor would I?
Speaker 5:No, no, I was bullshitting. I took this bloody box of cupcakes to work at smoker time and they thought it was awesome. It's the small things, isn't it?
Speaker 3:It's the small things that make the biggest difference. You've got to be consciously thinking about that stuff all the time.
Speaker 1:And it's hard because in business you can't shut me up, can you? There is so many things in business and there's so many things that can be stressful and triggering, and so the connection to the team sometimes goes by the wayside. But that's the thing that anchors everything. So when stuff does get rough, anchor rough, that's great. Then you can start working on those things because you know that the team's looking after you.
Speaker 2:I'm killing it, I'm absolutely killing it. Have you got any?
Speaker 4:pillows in here. We'll just leave you. Oh gosh.
Speaker 3:A catastrophizer is a real thing.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 4:People who catastrophize often feel they have little control over their lives and everything happens to them.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you. Not a great thing to be thinking. That's what we're working on Catastrophizer yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, look, guys, I appreciate your time, especially you two flying up from where did you fly out of Sydney?
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Sydney and Melbourne. Look, I think you've added heaps of value today. It's Godfather as well. Next podcast, we're going to have a Godfather hat on. We need a Godfather day I think Well, the Godfather needs a YouTube channel. That's Liver King.
Speaker 5:Yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Might support the, a youtube channel like that. Um, liver king, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, um, oh, look, I think it's fantastic. I think just having these sorts of conversations gets a lot out there and a lot of knowledge, a lot of advice and all that sort of thing. So, um, look for anyone that listening. If you like these types of podcasts where we have multiple guests, let us know so we can get more of them. But if you've got any questions at all, make sure you reach out. If you're having trouble with your mental health or you're in a dark place, make sure you reach out to the guys at TX. But one last thing to wrap it up guys, what have you got?
Speaker 5:I think for me it's the whole reason we're here is networking, networking. I think for me it's the whole reason we're here is networking, networking, communication, collaboration and ultimately it's come from Live Life Build. But I think it's important that you just reach out at the hardware store and things like that. There's a couple of builders in our local area that I've had little chats with. I've seen one of them turn up at your level up experience and he come and saw me and he asked me about Paula and I said go buy a book. I seen him last week and he goes. I bought the book. So I just think the networking, networking, collaboration, and that's why we're here now and I think, it's so important and our growth, our free growth and our whole team.
Speaker 5:From that is this next level.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we're leveling up boys, that's it um, in light of letting anthony have the closing comment, um, yeah, just doing the little things, don't over-dramatise. Just reaching out and having a chat to someone, it's really not that hard, just to put yourself out there. So I'll keep it short and sweet because Anthony's next.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I've said everything I need to say. I just want to thank you for letting us come on. This podcast and this platform is so incredibly important for builders and tradies out there and hopefully it does get the message across that you know it's okay to not be okay and there's always a way out. Sorry, there's always a way to get through things, should I say, and it's about communicating and letting people in.
Speaker 3:Awesome. Yeah, guys, if you're interested in Healthy Homes we do have quite a bit of stock of Paula's Prescription for Healthy Homes book. Go to my website, duanepiercecom. You can purchase them there. While you're there, grab some merch, but look, if you've got questions to these guys, I'm sure they're not going to mind you reaching out. Craig Stuart Holmes Renovations on Instagram. Ryan Loxbeck on Instagram. Anthony Two-Tone keep an eye on his videos. They're great.
Speaker 1:Like and subscribe.
Speaker 3:Like and subscribe. Like and subscribe to all the guys. Check them out. They're doing great things.
Speaker 2:And look as always, like subscribe and we will see you on the next one.
Speaker 1:are you ready to build smarter, live better and enjoy life?
Speaker 2:then head over to live like buildcom forward, slash, elevate to get started everything discussed during the level Up podcast with me, dwayne Pearce, is based solely on my own personal experiences and those experiences of my guests. The information, opinions and recommendations presented in this podcast are for general information only, and any reliance on the information provided in this podcast is done at your own risk. We recommend that you obtain your own professional advice in respect to the topics discussed during this podcast.