The "Level Up" with Duayne Pearce Podcast
I take on the role of an authoritative voice that fearlessly communicates truths drawn directly from my lived experiences. With a genuine sense of ownership, my insights are free from any hidden agendas – they truly belong to the audience. My stories and journey add remarkable value, the key now lies in harnessing its power effectively to help others.
My purpose is to create a new residential building industry. My mission is to inspire unshakable self-confidence in my colleagues in the industry, empowering them to orchestrate prosperous, enduring, and lucrative businesses that bring exceptional projects to fruition for our clients.
My goal is to foster a deeper comprehension among clients about the identity and functions of builders, redefining their perceptions.
The "Level Up" with Duayne Pearce Podcast
I Can't Keep Quiet About It Anymore - Pulling Back the Veil on the Building Industry.
#151 Helen Armstrong from House of Stars shares her 33-year journey in the construction industry while revealing critical insights about current building codes and their unintended consequences for homeowners and builders alike. She explains how modern construction practices aimed at energy efficiency may be creating the perfect conditions for widespread mould issues in Australian homes, similar to the leaky home crisis in New Zealand.
Check out House of Stars here...
https://www.houseofstars.com.au/
Check out Duayne's other projects here...
Live Life Build
livelifebuild.com
D Pearce Constructions
dpearceconstructions.com.au
QuoteEaze
quoteeaze.com/Free-Offer.html
Check out the Duayne Pearce website here...
https://duaynepearce.com/
Back 33 years ago, it used to take about three to four months to build a low set three, four bedroom dwelling. 33 years forward, you would think that we'd see some progression, but now that same house is taking eight to 12 months to build. And what do you think that is? Well, mobile phones is probably one of the biggest things, but most definitely red tape.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, productivity is definitely down.
Speaker 1:One of the things that I'm really passionate about is removing the red tape where there is none.
Speaker 2:G'day guys. Welcome back to another episode of Level Up. We are back in the shed today for another cracking episode, and this one will definitely be a cracker because I've got a lady here today that I hadn't seen for probably 10 years, 12 years, and then she actually showed up at my Level Up experience event and I was over the moon. We had a good conversation. I'm like, man, you're coming on the podcast, but to yeah, I just want to give a big warm welcome I guess an introduction to Helen from House of Stars.
Speaker 1:Hi Duane. Thank you, I got it right, yes.
Speaker 2:House of Stars. Helen is definitely an expert when it comes to energy efficiency ratings and all that sort of thing. But to take you back to how we actually met was we were just talking about it off air. It was in 2010. And back then for a few years you were the judge with the Master Building Awards, and we met the year that I won the Rising Star Award. Yes, so yeah. Now we're back.
Speaker 1:I know it's a long time, so how? How long have you been in the construction industry?
Speaker 2:uh, I've been in the construction industry now for 29 years 29 well, it started when I was 15, so, um, definitely a long time, but running, running my own building business. Now, this, this is our um. I worked it out the other day. I think it's our 17th year as, okay, yeah, building, but, um, I just want to touch on something before. Like, we've got a lot of stuff we're going to talk about today and some of it, uh, is probably going to be a bit controversial, but I'm all for opening up cans of worms and getting this industry talking, but, um, so I really want to point out so I won the master builders rising a star award in 2010. I'm pretty sure it was 2010, might have been 2012, I think. I'm sure it was 2010, because 2010, I think, was the year that I should have won the other award that I didn't. But, um, why I want to point this out is so when, back then, when I won the rising star award, um, for master builders queensland, you, you didn't enter it. It was. It was a and correct me if I'm wrong, but it was an award like, I think that year we had three or four projects entered yes and the judges selected me because they thought my work was good oh, brilliant
Speaker 2:your work was brilliant um, but like that was like 2010 to 2012 was some of our biggest struggles. So, um, it was actually a shit show behind the scenes and it's the reason I want to point it out is because it doesn't always like. At the time, I thought it was unbelievable. I I thought I've won this Rising Star Award, people are recognizing what I'm doing, but at the time I was face value. It looked like we were building multi-million dollar homes, we had a massive team, we were making lots of money, but behind the scenes it was a shit show. We had no cash flow. We were basically nearly going broke. Every single day was issues with clients. Like it was just terrible. So I think it's. There's a perception at all levels across the industry, isn't it like just because you win awards doesn't mean you you're actually doing well?
Speaker 1:that's very true. Part of the awards process, though, is to recognise the human behind the work. Yeah. So we're not interested in that. We're interested in the heart behind the project and the quality of project. And it goes without saying, dwayne, that you have yourself and your team, some of the best craftsmen offer the best craftsmanship that industry's ever seen. Yeah, and we recognise that. Did that Rising Star Award? Did that help you?
Speaker 2:It did help me personally, like, because I like the industry is a hard industry, so getting recognition definitely does help encourage you to keep pushing and keep doing better. So look it definitely didn't go astray like I. It's still on the wall in my office. It's the.
Speaker 2:It's actually the only award that is on the wall okay all of our other master builders awards and ha awards are sort of down in the shelf. You don't really see them. But the rising star one is one that I walk past every day and I I still do get proud by it.
Speaker 1:So that was an honorary award. You didn't actually apply for that. The judges selected you out of all the other projects for the. Rising Star.
Speaker 2:Award. So how did you get involved with the? What were you doing back then?
Speaker 1:So I've been in the construction industry for 33 years. Yeah, I started House of Stars 17 years ago and when I, a couple of years into starting House of Stars, I decided that for me to create some credibility really quick would be to enter awards yeah, so I myself was behind the scenes entering awards. I won a few awards and then one of the industry associations said hey, do you want to? Would you like to be a judge? Yeah, absolutely, I'd love to be a judge. Yeah, so that's how I got that particular judging role. I've done many judging roles since that time.
Speaker 2:I really a pretty cool role, like you get to see some amazing homes, absolutely yeah yeah the and look, I really I don't know I again knowing what I know now like you, you build connections with people like I. Like, obviously over there was a, I think a four or five year period there where we did enter a lot of homes and we did win a lot of awards. But, um, like I literally only see you every 12 months when you come to judge the awards and I don't know. It was just always friendly and always good and we connected pretty well. So I was stoked the other week when you turned up to my event and I wanted to see what you were doing, how you were going.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So we'll come back to all that sort of stuff later, but let's so. You're now an energy assessing expert. Yes. Can you take us back to like? You've been in the industry 33 years. How did you get into the industry?
Speaker 1:First of all, I was the first woman labourer ever employed by G James Glass and Aluminium back in 1992. They were launching a new division called the Security and Safety Division and one of the marketing gurus thought that it would be great for G James Profile to employ a woman. I mean, there was very few women being employed back in those days. So that's how it all started and we were installing window film security film, not solar control, just exclusively solar control film. It was a big problem in the 90s of nickel sulfate, which was tough and glass exploding and the glass would be falling 20, 30 stories. So the security film was designed to hold the glass together and we also did solar film as well. And just installing solar film I started to recognise the benefits of energy efficiency well before energy efficiency was even a buzzword.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the cost of energy. Electricity was very cheap back then, right, and for me, I felt that I had a greater purpose. There was no room for me to move at G James, so I went and worked for another company doing window tinting. And same thing roadblock.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was always the new guys that come along and got the bigger bonuses, the pay rises, and so I just kept moving along and eventually I landed a technical role with a company called QIS SolarWise and we specialised in insulation, solar hot water, window tinting, swimming pool heating and also window film. I think I already said that. So initially they employed me to grow their window tinting division and they realised that I had a great potential and I wanted to learn more and I ended up being the the sales manager for the technical team. So we not only did we, we build, but we built designed heat pumps and gas heaters for olympic swimming pools and domestic swimming pools. So I was in that role for 10 years and then I was married. At the time I had a little boy, little baby, and when he was two years old my marriage ended and I had an opportunity to go back to to QIS, but back in those days I was working 60, 70 hours a week. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, oh. My sales were, you know, $150,000, $200,000 a month. So it was a big position and, as a single mum, knowing that I was only going to have access to my little man for 50% of the time, house of Stars really was birthed by myself really from a survival point of view, so you've been going 17 years. Yeah, House of Stars is 17 years.
Speaker 2:So you've been going 17 years. Yeah, house of Stars is 17 years.
Speaker 1:There wouldn't have been, like you said, there wouldn't have been that buzz around energy efficiency back then.
Speaker 3:So energy compliance came in in 2003 into the building code.
Speaker 1:Back in those days they had the deemed to satisfy, which is a bit like a road worthy for a car a tick and flick, and also the star rating. Now, the Deem to Satisfy was the most common method of energy compliance in 2003. And a lot of insulation companies. So the company that I work for, qis SolarWise, we did the Deem to Satisfy energy reports for the builders. Yeah, the star rating was also available back in 2003. It was three stars at the time. Yeah right, a software program could only rate to five stars back in those days and three stars was the minimum requirement. So that, coming in 2003, I started House of Stars in 2006.
Speaker 2:Yeah, unreal, I should point out too before. I should have done it at the start, but for anybody that's watching, we have this incredible platter sitting between us because Helen showed up with this awesome array of foods which I've been getting stuck into. So you're the first guest ever to show up with food We've had plenty to turn up with food. We've had plenty turn up with alcohol and drinks and stuff I like food, duane as you can as you can tell yeah, so it's always nice to share some yummies yeah, no, definitely so.
Speaker 2:Um, look, I'm keen to see where this podcast goes, because we've definitely got a lot to talk about. So tell us some of the changes that you've seen from then, like well, I think the greatest thing would be is back 33 years ago.
Speaker 1:It used to take about three to four months to build a low set three, four bedroom dwelling. 33 years forward, you would think that we'd see some progression, but now that same house is taking 8 to 12 months to build yeah, yeah, and what do you think that is? Well, mobile phones is. Is is probably one of the biggest things, yeah, but most definitely red tape yeah, yeah, productivity is definitely down.
Speaker 2:I think like you don't. Um, I just see what happens on job sites these days compared to when I like. So, yeah, 29, no 27 years ago when I started my apprenticeship like we got a lot more done in a day than what you see a volume builder doing these days, do?
Speaker 1:you think that that's because we've got a lot of distractions. You've got the mobile phone, you've got social media addiction, TikTok, Snapchat.
Speaker 2:There was no phone, like you say. The boss was on site with me and there was only a team of three of us. But yeah, we would build a stick frame three, four bedroom, like 180 to 220 square metre house in a day. It would turn up with packs of timber in the morning and by the time we left it forth, between four and five in the afternoon, it would be a fully built frame ready for roof trusses so the culture was a lot more serious.
Speaker 1:Right, they're a lot more committed, is that?
Speaker 2:yeah, I don't know. Look, I definitely had a great boss, but, um, like I think a lot of the cultures changed. Like we, like we got pushed hard, like I did anyway. Like it was like you were running yeah, like there was no just dragging your feet around checking your phone, like it was like the radio was on and you were running, yeah. But I do think that a bigger part of it is the red tape like there, and and not only that, there's a lot more product goes into a house now yeah, of course like you, um, but when I started my apprenticeship, like we weren't even putting any building wrap on it oh, right, okay so
Speaker 1:I don't know when that started coming in back in 1992 uh, or actually, excuse me, not 1992 when I started with qis, which was 1997. I used to sell rolls of sarking out the boot of my car yeah drive around to job sites. You need some sarking. No thanks, we don't use it. We don't use it.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, yeah. So when, when did that? When did the rule come in that you had to in? 2003 yeah, yeah and look, correct me if I'm wrong on this or I'm out of place, but I I I believe now that our industry is very reactive and it all the everything the governments, the associations and things and they make a lot of decisions without actually doing consulting the industry, the people on site absolutely there's.
Speaker 1:No, there's very little stakeholder engagement and particularly extremely low, uh, stakeholder engagement with custom home builders.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's my experience.
Speaker 2:Well, and that's what I was going to get at, they might do a little bit with bigger builders, but from what I've seen and been aware of, they don't want to talk to renovation extension custom home builders because there's too many of us and I sort of believe that the whole industry is driven by the volume builders.
Speaker 1:I would. I would have to agree with you. Yeah, I've been on a number of committees throughout my career and majority of my experience in those committees is majority of those would be would be project builders yeah. Less representative of custom home builders, or yeah.
Speaker 2:Or smaller builders yeah but they seem, when it comes to the energy ratings, like it's not, yeah, there's not enough consultation out there, and like I'm only sort of trying to go back now to figure out why we're having the problems we're having now, like, and I actually I believe a lot of the changes that are coming now we're creating more issues. Um, but like the way I sort of been explaining it to people, like we were building homes for a while, like so my, my view is the old queenslander is about like for our environment, where we are here, southeast queensland, the old queenslander is the perfect home. It's up off the ground a bit. It's got huge, big, wide verandas, lots of shading, lots of natural ventilation. Yes, it gets cold in winter, but we're humans. You go, put a jumper on, you look after yourself. You don't expect your house to do it yeah but then we've now built like we.
Speaker 2:Then we started putting sarking on and then so that became a thing and we now know that the foil is terrible. It doesn't allow moisture to transfer inside the outside, and then we have insulation that come in like I'm not sure you probably know the exact year that the insulation come in 2003 so then we start filling our walls with bulk insulation and then, because of the foil paper now the moisture is getting trapped in that insulation and now we're just starting to see mould issues.
Speaker 1:But are those mould issues, do you believe, directly related to the paper, or the fact that the building code has evolved, and a lot of that is about reducing the window areas and the fall prevention screens came in in 2013, so you either needed a window restrictor, so a sliding window that would typically open 45 percent is now limited to opening to 120. Uh, 120 mil.
Speaker 2:Yeah right, look, I'm definitely no expert, but from the, from what I know, what I, what I feel, I know from all my own homework and research and just talking to people like yourself, I I think we've created the problem because without, without knowing what we we've done, we've created more airtight houses, absolutely, and not only like that's a good. I've never even thought about what you just said with the fall prevention and limiting the opening of windows.
Speaker 1:The airflow.
Speaker 2:Always sort of going along the lines of just over the course of the last 20, 30 years, products have gotten better, so like windows have gotten better, seals have gotten better, and so without really knowing what was happening, have the windows really gotten better? I think they are.
Speaker 1:Well, it depends what company isn't, it depends where they're coming from and a lot of the double glazing is coming well, which is required quite a great deal now in in the current code. A lot of those windows are coming from from china, yeah, and they're not necessarily argon gas filled. And another thing that you may not know is did you know as soon as you screw a security screen or a fall prevention screen to a double-glazed window, the double-glazed window is not under warranty. No, and you've also compromised the air in between the frame.
Speaker 2:Therefore, you're going to have condensation issues oh, if you've penetrated through, as soon as you penetrate through the frame?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, they're things that are overlooked in the building code. Is those unintentional consequences?
Speaker 2:yeah, I guess, unless you're buying a window that's actually got a screen track built into it exactly you're penetrating a seal through the window.
Speaker 1:So then, if you're not using screens, you need to limit the window opening to 120 mil, and that's only trapping all the moisture inside, and then I believe, in another two to three years we're going to have more unhealthy homes, more mold than you can poke a stick at. I agree, I think like I can poke a stick at.
Speaker 2:I agree. I think, like I said, there's just not enough investigation. I had Paula Baker-Laporte out here for my event the other week or whatever months ago. It feels like it was only a couple of days ago, but I learned so much from her while she was here.
Speaker 2:We spent seven days with her and it just really opened up my eyes to about how we should be thinking about our homes and, um, like, the way she thinks of a home is that it's a living, breathing thing, like our house has to perform like yeah, you like, the house basically needs a set of lungs, like you need the, the walls, to be able to breathe in and out, and you need it to be able to hold moisture when it's appropriate and then release that moisture when the, when the temperature and the humidity is right and all those types of things absolutely I feel like we're going down this path where we're getting pushed to create more airtight homes.
Speaker 2:But if you're creating a more airtight home and you're not, uh, dealing with what comes with that, yes, then yeah, we're creating more problems.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, I agree. I think another thing is that there's a great deal of emphasis on accessibility, inclusive inclusivity, and another thing that's been a big oversight is double glazed windows and doors. Well, if people have got accessibility issues or strength issues, be they a child or middle-aged, whatever half of them can't even open and close the windows. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, because they're too heavy. So those houses are going to be more reliant on air conditioning because they're going to be closed up all the time, yeah and that, and, as a consequence, they're going to be very unhealthy inside, yeah, incredibly moldy with the other thing.
Speaker 2:I think, with the double glazing, like, what I'm seeing now is like we're, um, we're sort of working with designers and architects now that are, um, we're sort of sending clients to a more um I'm not sure what the word is for it but like a very independent sort of assessment where it's not like a tick and flick thing because, like, as you say, like the code is sort of pushing for double glazing, but double glazing might not work on a full house, like you. So you really need to be doing assessments that take sort of each elevation uh, on its own merit, because if you, double glazing might work fantastic on one side of the house, but on the other side of the house it might actually need to get a bit more heat in or let a bit more heat out, um, so you might actually be creating problems for yourself. So do you see that, like with your are you are your tests going further now to um like doing like, basically, each elevation on its own assessment?
Speaker 1:No, no, no. I don't know where that method of compliance is written in the current building code. Duane, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, but you were saying before that by doing that, it might actually be non-compliant. Is that what you were saying before?
Speaker 1:Well, I feel that that method of compliance is what you would call a performance-based design brief, which is something that is agreed upon between the builder, the client and the building certifier, and they negotiate uh, and the building certifier will sign off on that. Uh as a as a performance solution, yeah, perhaps one that you've maybe created yourself, not a performance solution that is written in the building code as such, because within the building code, a performance solution is outlined. It used to be a loophole, but they closed that loophole when they changed the wording to the performance based solution cannot have a lesser outcome than the deemed to satisfy provisions yeah so what that would mean is you would have to do your glazing calculation under the deemed to satisfy provisions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what that would mean is you would have to do your glazing calculation under the deemed to satisfy provisions and if it says you need double glazing or triple glazing, technically a performance-based design brief cannot be less than that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah Okay.
Speaker 1:So if there's any performance-based solution that varies, there's any performance-based solution that varies from the building code, like well, technically, that's up to the building certified to sign off on that yeah, yeah, yeah, no, look it's.
Speaker 2:It's something I'm trying to educate myself more on, because I don't um it's very complex energy efficiency.
Speaker 1:In fact our stakeholders would say that energy compliance is one of the most complex, convoluted parts of the building code. Because in Queensland we've got the National Construction Code, which is national, and then we've got the Building Act 1975, which is exclusive to Queensland, and in there there's lots of different transitional arrangements, alternative not alternative solutions, but the discretion for a building certifier to apply the earlier building provisions yeah. And then you've also got the Queensland Development Code. So in Queensland you've got three codes. There's not a great deal of energy assessors or practitioners or professionals that understand how to interpret those together yeah. And having said that, one of the biggest inconsistencies that's happening today in the industry is under the building act of 1975, under section 61. It allows every single alteration and addition project to be assessed under the earlier building provisions yeah, Every day of the week.
Speaker 2:So that takes precedence over the new code.
Speaker 1:Within the building certifier, or builders or designers. They might not know that or they might have their own interpretation. So here we've got 1,000 builders, and most of them don't even know that. Yeah, I didn't know that.
Speaker 1:So you and I this is a scenario you and I are pricing on the same project, an alteration and addition project. My building certifier understands and interprets the legislation as it's written Within Section 61, there's no limitations. Within section 61, there's no limitations. The only limitation for applying the earlier building provisions for energy compliance is does the building certifier consider it to be a compromise? The structural integrity or the structural safety of the building? That's the only limitation. Yeah, but in other sections of the building act which are 20 sections, 30 sections away, there's things called half volume triggers, right, but what we've got is we've got a great deal of part of the industry that's read the legislation and gone oh, half volume is 50% floor area. You and I both know there's a big difference between half volume and 50% floor area. But some certifiers will go oh, no, no, no, no, I can't apply the earlier building code because the new work is more than 50% of the floor area, is more than 50% of the floor area. That doesn't exist in Section 61. Yeah, so what we are doing, part of our training, is we go out and we educate the building certifiers about the legislation, our builders and our building designers, and we say to them this is Section 61. Yeah. And we say to them this is Section 61. Yeah. If the building certifier says, oh, we can't apply Section 61 because of the 50% floor area trigger, I get on the phone, have a chin wag to the building certifier and say, with all due respect, you do realise that's a code blend. Codes are not intended to be blended.
Speaker 1:The intent of the legislation within the Building Act is to use that act. So one's called Section 61 and one's called Section 81. If they were related, don't you think they'd be called Section 61A and B, right? Yeah? Think they'd be called section 61 a andb, right, yeah? But they're actually 20 codes apart and section 61 is under the earlier building provisions. So how we're making a change in the industry. And look, some building certifiers. You know what they. You know what they say to me, duane, don't you?
Speaker 1:I can only imagine yeah I just want you to tick a box and but I can't keep quiet about it anymore because you and I are pricing on the same job. My building certifier says yes, helen, section 61, yours says what. Yours says no, yeah, you're going to meet the current code. What does that mean? That means that you and I are pricing the same client and we could be sixty thousand dollars apart yeah, yeah have you just have you just wasted your time quoting. Yeah, how long. How long did that take you to quote that project?
Speaker 2:yeah, well. Well, look, we've got a process we don't quote against other builders. But, um, I I get what you mean, but I could be building the wrong thing. Like, if we've got a process we don't quote against other builders, but I get what you mean, but I could be building the wrong thing. Like if I've got a certifier that done that wrong, I could be actually pricing the wrong thing for the client.
Speaker 1:So the certifier's not actually necessarily done it wrong. It's within their jurisdiction, yeah, so they can say it's got to meet the current code. But the interesting thing is is it's called the new housing code. It's an alteration, addition, a new house. Yeah.
Speaker 1:There we go. So at the moment, we've got this major disparity where we've got builders that are quoting against each other and they're not even quoting on the same level playing field. We've got builders that are engaging building certifiers and they don't even know what energy efficiency code they need to meet. Then we've got the clients that haven't been given the option. Perhaps they may have had to meet the current code and it's cost them an extra $60,000 to do that. So the legislation I think one of the things that I'm really passionate about is removing the red tape where there is none right.
Speaker 2:So what do you mean by that?
Speaker 1:Well, there's no red tape surrounding Section 61, right, it's actually a legitimate part of the legislation that allows every single alteration and addition to go under the early building provisions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you were telling me about something at my event when we caught up that there was something missed or something was there. And then it says a lot of houses that are now non-compliant.
Speaker 1:So did you see that letter from Master Builders?
Speaker 2:Yeah, did you have a read of it, yeah.
Speaker 1:Did it make any sense to you? A little bit, okay. So when the new energy compliance code came in in 1st of May 2024, earlier, all you had to do was meet the building fabric, which is the insulation, the glazing, the ceiling fans. So we call that the building fabric. The new code includes not just an improved building fabric, but also the whole of home assessment. Now, the whole of home assessment is where an energy report needs to tell you what the performance requirements of the air conditioning system needs to be, what performance requirements, the hot water, the swimming pool pump? Now, as an example, if you have gas hot water, did you know that you need to install a solar power system to offset the gas? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's pretty interesting, but even I'll come back in a minute. You finish what you're saying so what's?
Speaker 1:what's master builders has written a letter to the minister is that they've realized that a lot of energy reports have been accepted, approved and built that exclude the whole of house assessment. So they're only half compliant.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So what happens with that? Nothing.
Speaker 1:Do you really want me to get into that? I think that should be something that we talk off air actually All right. Because it'll open up a real huge can of worms.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all right, right, well, we can do that, but so, but like back to what you're just saying there, like a lot of a lot of people wouldn't. Well, from what I see, a lot of people are going to contract without knowing their hot water, their pool pump, their like, their, their like builders are locking them into contracts before they've even had that stuff finalized well, I think that's the biggest message, right, do not quote on a project unless the client's provided you with an energy report.
Speaker 1:Don't even quote on it.
Speaker 2:Well, we've changed our process, our pre-construction process, in the last sort of six to 12 months, because we were like energy assessing was something that was always getting left right till certification, like right at the end, and a lot of the times like we'd get told, oh look, it's fine, it passes everything and we'd go to contract. And then next time we get the stamp plans through and the energy's ratings different, we it's it ups the cost of all the windows and everything changes. So we've changed our process now to say that before we go to contract we must have a final energy assessment done so that we can finalize our costings absolutely, yeah, it's just riddled with danger if you don't do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, what we also tell builders, because you might not be the only builder pricing on a project don't organise the energy report for the client. No, yeah.
Speaker 1:Get the client to actually engage the energy assessor. Now we always qualify what code applies to the project, right, is it the earlier code or is it today's code? And then we also talk to the certifier to to determine that now if a builder you got four builders pricing on the same project and they organize the energy assessor, the owner's not going to be paying for four energy assessments right yeah, and particularly if it's under the current code, there's more of a risk that that project might have to go back to redesign to meet the current code yeah, we push for the, the architect or the designer who like in whoever's
Speaker 2:got in the team like we. Really I believe they should be doing it like should be part of their process. It it should be yes engage an energy assessor and like we are seeing, like we've got one guy or two, got two people now that do it quite well, like they they're engaging the energy assessor.
Speaker 2:Before final drawings yes, and then working with them to come up with solutions so that they can be drawing the right size windows, and having those conversations, because it, like I'm sure you would see it, like windows tend to be one of the biggest items.
Speaker 1:Oh, most definitely.
Speaker 2:If you get the rate, like the difference in rating can mean like, depending on the size of the job, could be a difference of $10,000, $20,000, $30,000 in windows.
Speaker 1:And this is where it's really good to talk about that Flexibility of having that earlier code available for all alterations and additions projects is we had a 30 of my business is second opinion. Now that's pretty bad, right.
Speaker 2:30, so people have already got a, got an assessment. They come to you for a backup for a second opinion.
Speaker 1:Now a lot of those second opinions are coming back to us because I the glazing performance requirements aren't even available on the planet, yeah Right, so they send their energy report off to the glazing company. No glass exists? Okay. Then there's other ones where they may. It's been done under the current code. It's an alteration in addition, but it needs double glazing. And now all of a sudden the builder's being told that he needs to replace existing windows in a character, in a housing that's got a character overlay. He needs to replace existing windows with double glazed windows. You can't do that? Yeah Right, so they come to windows. You can't do that? Yeah Right, so they come to us. We smooth it all out, we talk to the building certifier, we get it approved under the earlier provisions and then we go ahead and make the project viable again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's so much to it, isn't there? How does the average homeowner supposed to understand all this if even builders and certifiers don't.
Speaker 1:Well, that's where there needs to be education, and we've seen such a huge gap and a need for it that we're actually going out I mean, everyone gets a platter, dwayne, we go out with a platter and we work with teens. Because you've heard of the term confirmation bias, right? No, no, the confirmation bias is when you read something and you change the words. When you read it, you change the words but those words don't actually exist in the sentence.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, so it's interesting that we will go to you know a team, and we'll have eight building certifiers all at the table and we're reading exactly the same legislation, right, and it's only four paragraphs, like section 61, it's not a big read. And and one certifier go, oh, but no, you can't do that. Or oh but no, and it's. The collaboration is just brilliant because it brings up that confirmation bias and that conflict, so something that you've been telling yourself always. You know, red, red's the fastest car and someone says, no, but yellow and orange can be just as fast, and then me proving it to you and you're oh shit, yeah, that's right yeah so that's what those collaboration sessions are about.
Speaker 1:And another thing about a level playing field is within the building act, section 37 also allows any project that started building design prior to the 1st of may 2024 new dwelling and allows those to also be assessed under the early building provisions every day of the week. Yeah, because we're working with a lot of builders and architects, particularly with your passive homes.
Speaker 1:They might have been in the the planning designing process for 12 to 18 months, sometimes two or three years right yeah so when, when they're working with us, we qualify and we don't just I use this terrible term, but we qualify them, we don't just I use this terrible term, but I say slap on, we don't just slap on the current code, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:So what's your goal? I see you've just done a new website. It's fantastic, thank you, and so it seems to me like your passion now is not just doing the assessments, it's actually educating the industry on what's required.
Speaker 1:Educating the industry on legislation. I think one of my greatest goals, dwayne, is to reduce the amount of building insolvencies. Yeah, so since 2021 in Australia, we've had 8,759 builders go insolvent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the figures are huge. I just saw the ones for this financial year. It's looking like we're going to go over 3,000 just for the year.
Speaker 1:Oh yes, I know that's insane.
Speaker 2:And so what's your plan to help reduce that?
Speaker 1:To help people understand the legislation, create a level playing field so that builders are pricing on a level playing field, allowing the earlier building provisions in as many cases as possible within the legislation, delivering more affordable housing, giving clients the opportunity to upgrade where their budget permits. So that's one of my greatest goals is to educate builders. Yeah, okay, and make sure that they engage their building certifier with confidence. And make sure that they engage their building certifier with confidence. I always call building certifier God. They can make or break a project right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they can. Yeah enough, I'd be calling them God. The one we use is very good. Mark's very thorough. We use him because he does. Actually. He pulls you up on things. He'll ring you while he's assessing drawings and ask how we're going to build something.
Speaker 1:Don't get me wrong I'm not here to undermine building certifiers. We're here to protect them so that they can mitigate their risks.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I'm not some sort of smart-ass nerd that's coming in and trying to challenge building certifiers challenge building certifiers but our direction is to get them familiar, not just building certifiers, but builders and building designers as well. Uh, just to refresh them so that we've got a level a level playing field do is affordable housing. I mean majority of your clients. Right, let's face it, they, they wouldn't be first-time buyers, right?
Speaker 2:no, but reducing the cost of building is something I'm really passionate about right okay, I do firmly believe that with what I'm doing with my training, business, live, life, build. Like if I hand on heart, believe that I can reduce the cost of housing. If we can get all builders running more successful, more profitable, more sustainable building businesses, yes, it will reduce the cost. And I did a post yesterday on my socials about this and someone said to me how as if you're going to make the cost of housing more affordable if the builders are more profitable and I said, well, it will definitely come down because, like the thing is at the moment, so if we so 24, 25 financial year, it looks like we're going to going to exceed 3 000 companies in the construction industry going broke.
Speaker 2:So those 3 000 companies like I can only imagine, I would imagine that they're leaving behind. It would easily be in the hundreds of millions, if not a billion dollars of unpaid bills, but easily in the hundreds of millions. So people don't understand like that money that hasn't been paid, we're all covering that, but that's getting. Like I know two companies very well, like I personally know two companies very, very well that one's a hardware and, uh, one's a um, like a roofing metalwork business. Between those two companies they're going to write off this year over $9 million in unpaid invoices from builders that have gone broke.
Speaker 1:That's scary, hey.
Speaker 2:So and that's what I'm saying they don't just write that off. Those losses get worked onto the cost of what we all pay for our materials. So I think it's huge, I think there's yeah, it's it's a big driver for me to get every builder running a more successful, profitable business, which the on flow from that is that we reduce the cost of housing, our clients get better quality homes, um, we reduce waste, we help the environment, we have healthier employees, because you haven't got a boss that's running around all stressed and flogging everyone because he's trying to make money.
Speaker 1:I think too. Every time the price of a house increases, so does the risk to the builder right oh?
Speaker 1:yeah 100%, and every time you add one extra inclusion in one extra layer, whether it be glazing, whatever, it gives you that extra level of risk of losing profit. We've had, coming back to energy efficiency, we've had a builder like yourself and we say oh well, we believe that your project's eligible under the earlier building provisions. Can you please go back? Here's the blurb. And some builders have come back and it's taken them two weeks, four weeks, six weeks, eight weeks to get a. Yes, Now, that's something that we never talk about. Is the cost of delays? Now, that's something that we never talk about. Is the cost of delays? Okay, so we might just say well, energy efficiency has increased the cost of a house by 20 to 80 grand, but what's the cost of all the delays in that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, again, that's part of the like you touched on it before, like the length of time it's taking to build, because of all the extra materials we have to put in them.
Speaker 2:So these are all the little things that people aren't considering. The government and the media just bang on about the cost of housing has gone through the roof and all this type of thing, but if they keep adding red tape and look, some of it's good. We do have to improve the way we build. I have no hands down. We have to do that. But I do believe there needs to be more homework, more investigation, more consultation with the industry before we start enforcing code changes. But um, like that has a lot to do with why the house is taking long to build. And if the house takes longer to build, you've got longer temporary fence higher longer toilet higher longer, more supervision to manage the project for I think the only answer is is to come up with your own association.
Speaker 1:Duane definitely that would be the only way that we could actually deliver all of that stakeholder engagement yeah, the voice of those builders. Because myself alone I've been on many committees. I'm currently not on any committees. I'm not a member of any association. Therefore, even though I've done a significant amount of stakeholder engagement, wrote lots of policies for Senator Gerard Rennick, which obviously Actually that's another way that you reached back out to me after all those years. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm a massive fan of his.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm absolutely devastated.
Speaker 2:He didn't get in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, me too, me too, so I'd been doing a lot of work behind the scenes. So my goal is to have the current NCC investigated, redacted and made voluntary opt-in out down. That's my goal, okay. And. I've been working very, very hard on that, quite strategically.
Speaker 2:Sorry, go back again. That was a big one, so what's that?
Speaker 1:My goal is to have the ncc to a national construction code yes, 2022 energy efficiency revoked, made voluntary opt-in, opt-out yeah, so that you don't have to meet the current code. The client can decide whether they want to meet the current code or whether they want to meet the earlier code or whether they want to meet the earlier code.
Speaker 2:And what's the driver for that?
Speaker 1:Well, housing affordability equality as well, because if you're driving up the price of houses by 20, 40, 60 grand, that's actually distributing wealth, isn't it Right? So it's pushing a lot of people out of housing. Not only when we increase the cost of housing, that unintentional consequence increases the cost of rents, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's almost like a disease. Now, the Productivity Commission is currently reviewing the National Construction Code. Now we're in. What are we in? It's nearly July.
Speaker 1:We're in July, yeah, that's right 3rd of July and the Productivity Commission has got a YouTube video that says that they are aware that the NCC has never been assessed for its productivity. Have you seen that YouTube? No. I'll flick it to you. Yeah, yeah, so that's why the NCC 2025 didn't come in Dwayne. Yeah, right Because it's on hold. Yeah, all right. And that's the other way we can make a change is get on the NCC and the ABCB committee. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 1:So that you get a lot more practical insight.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, back to what you said before like, so my, my, one of my other goals is like I, I part of my mission is I I don't like the word association, but I do want like, live, my, look, my company, live, life, build. I want it to be the company that builders come to and we separate from the rest of the industry. So I, I. It absolutely blows my mind that all builders are put in the one basket and I firmly believe that all custom renovation, extension, refurbishment builders need to be our own. I'll say association, but I just can't believe that we have to live to have the same everything.
Speaker 2:As a builder that's turning over half a billion or a billion dollars a year, but the other, the flip, the other part of that is I truly believe that like a custom builder, like a family, run a smaller business.
Speaker 2:So I don't know, you'd have to have obviously a, a requirement, but I'm I've told my head, I'm thinking like builders that build less than 20 homes a year. Every home's a custom home. They don't build the same house twice, like all that sort of thing. Like we're building better homes than the volume builders and the other guys. So because one thing I'm really worried about is, like the government bangs on that all these changes to the building code are to like, especially now that mould and condensation are getting mentioned, that the code is to build healthier homes and better quality homes. But I'm actually concerned that, especially with a lot of the changes that come in in the last few years, that they're actually creating a massive problem that in the next like my biggest fear is that Australia is going to go through like Europe and New Zealand did with the leaky home syndrome, like we're going to have massive mold issues.
Speaker 1:No doubt. And the interesting thing is is even under the Residential Tenancies Authority, a home that's mouldy is inhabitable, right yeah? So I had a girlfriend respiratory issues, long story short. She wanted to break her lease. That was back in the day when you had to pay your rent right up to the end of your lease date. Yeah, the owner of her house was her own family doctor for 20 years. Yeah, she had respiratory issues. The whole house was full of mould.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right. She made a number of complaints. Anyway, I said, let me, let me. I love this stuff, let me take it over. So I organised a mould company to come out but not habitable. She got out of it, didn't have to pay break lease fees and that's gonna.
Speaker 1:That's gonna be happening, right that's gonna be happening everywhere or worse, the tenant will stay in there and say, hey, duane, it's mouldy, it's not habitable, got nowhere else to go, but I'm not paying your rent until you rectify it. And that's actually in the current rental tenancies authority. But no one's directly linking that together yet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's going to become a huge problem. There's going to be a lot of landlords that will end end up broke because then they just won't have tennis and so I so what I've seen in firsthand.
Speaker 1:I'm at woody point, you know woody point yeah yeah, and next door to me was a dilapidated house and 10 dilapidated units, right, and the way around it was is that the landlord or the owner just rented to these people directly because they didn't meet the residential tenancies authority standards. So now, all of a sudden, what you've got is you're gonna have this huge underworld parcel it's underworld, but it already exists of houses that don't meet the minimum housing standards and landlords just renting out these shit boxes right, but they're still shelter, right. Yeah, still better than living in a car or a tent which is legal to do You're allowed to live in that, but you're allowed to live in a shit or a tent, which is legal to do You're not allowed to live in that, but you're allowed to live in a shit box, right, that leaks and has got broken stairs, and that's the underworld that's being created. So these houses are still available for rent, but just not through the system.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I also think there's a big and look, this is only something I'm I'm. I'm just so passionate now about healthy homes, like providing our clients and not just our clients, other people that want to build and renovate information, um, about creating homes that not only give us shelter but actually help our way of life in during the time we live there, and I feel like there's this big. So everything in australia seems to be driven around cost. Uh, you got volume builders just smashing out cookie cutters for um, a certain cost, which is driven by what people can afford, but then the way that they're getting built is not the best, and so we have these energy efficiency ratings and things that we have to meet.
Speaker 2:But there seems to be a big disconnect between the materials that we're allowed to build houses out of as well. And like as I bought matt risinger out as well for my event from the states and he like he's one of the leading sort of building science guys in the world. He's big on youtube and stuff and he just couldn't. He was blown away that australia allows house to be built out of steel frames and um, actually, we took him to him for a drive. He wanted to go into a housing estate and have a look, because he's like we just don't get this in the States. It's not allowed.
Speaker 1:I think the steel frames that evolved from COVID right when we ran out of timber. I don't know what the percentage was. Yeah, I'm not sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but they're everywhere now and it's cheaper. But a steel-framed house is horrible. It's like one of the worst products you could build a house out of. Like it. It like it gets condensation on it. It doesn't. It doesn't hold moisture.
Speaker 1:So then you get all this sweat and condensation just sitting in your wall, which well since most builders don't know this, but since 2009, if you built with metal frames, be it external walls or roof, you always have to have a thermal break. The thermal break is, you know. But that's so labour intensive right? Well, a lot of them are doing the thermal break.
Speaker 2:Oh, are they? So they're putting their. Well, I shouldn't say a lot, but a few are. So they put their wrap around the framing and then they put a cavity button over that frame and it creates an air gap on the outside.
Speaker 2:But the issue you have is you've still got a steel frame that's holding moisture inside the frame, which most of them are using just the cheapest insulation they can buy, so that insulation is then absorbing the moisture, or even what happens even more is you then have the moisture like sitting on the paper on the back of the plasterboard and so then in the back of it like you pull. I guess people, people that are watching and listening this could go and do an experiment. But you can pull the plasterboard off a the inside wall of a of a steel framed house within six months of that house being finished, and the back of the plasterboard will have mold over it look I.
Speaker 1:and no, no disrespect to metal frames, but you know we've had so much rain, duane, there's a lot of timber frames out there that as soon as we get one sunny day, whammo yeah. Right yeah great yeah, the concrete slabs, they're drenched. I don't know what the moisture content is, but we get one sunny day and bang go down the tiles. So I mean you and I could go right down but this is, this is what I mean.
Speaker 2:There's so many other things that should be getting considered as well, not just the energy rating of a building, like, um, like, is that stuff that you're looking into, you're aware of, or you?
Speaker 1:I'm aware of a lot of things. A couple of my best friends are dispute resolution lawyers, construction lawyers. So, duane, we talk all day, every day, about these situations.
Speaker 2:The frame. We've got a couple of clients at the moment that are a little bit frustrated, I guess is probably the best word. So with that we've obviously had all that rain on our timber frames. I'm no different to other builders, but we're not lining the insides of the house, so we're actually we're leaving the houses sit and we're moisture testing the timber until it gets below 14%.
Speaker 1:The QBCC does not cover energy efficiency under their home warranty scheme.
Speaker 2:How does that work?
Speaker 1:It's part of the building. There's lots of things that are excluded under the QBCC home warranty scheme. I'd have to Google it. My phone's in the car but there's a lot of items. So mould is also not included under the QBCC home warranty insurance scheme. How does that work? I can't. I'm not the one to answer that for you.
Speaker 2:I actually didn't know that I would have, so you'd have to think that's going to change now that mould's referencing the code.
Speaker 1:Well, I think, isn't it mainly structural defects and pretty severe poor quality workmanship? I don't know, I'm not sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've got it. We're doing a, a huge refurb at the moment on a house that um, actually, yeah, it's only just quick that you said that, like we, we started out. The client engaged us because they they wanted a kitchen and a few bathrooms refurbed and, uh, it was fairly high end home. But, um, over the 18 months of dealing with them and designing and stuff, they went away on a holiday and come back and the house was full of mold and ended up getting condemned for their home insurance through their yeah, but then they tried to go back to the original home warranty insurance and yeah, they they.
Speaker 2:Actually they wouldn't cover it because it's not covered.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a lot of things. Driveways are not covered. There's a lot, of, a lot of things I can't remember off the top of my head. Um isn't that interesting, though, where I had a a couple of of discussions with some of my friends and said I don't get it Right. So, but particularly with the energy efficiency, we've got builders that say the difference between the old code versus the new code is beefed up the price by 60 grand Right On the bill price, not including delays or whatever. So the client's actually paying a higher premium for the qbcc warranty insurance due to those things, but they're not covered yeah, yeah, I've never thought about like that that's yeah.
Speaker 2:Look, all that home warranty insurance stuff really bugs me like, especially when they max.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like that's a whole 200 grand or optional 250 grand yeah, but you kept paying your premium on the yeah I don't. If you find someone that can make sense of it, get them to call me, because I'd like. It's almost criminal, isn't it?
Speaker 2:like you're paying. If that's the case, why doesn't the premium get capped at a at a certain price, like because you? That premium just keeps going up and up and up and up and up, and yet your payout figure is capped. It's quite ridiculous. We can go down lots more rabbit holes. But I also wanted to chat to you today On your new website. You're really getting behind women in the industry, which I'm pretty passionate about as well, so tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 1:Well, if you wind the clock back, I started in the building and construction industry in 1992. I was yet to meet another woman in the industry for another 15 years after that. It's really important for women to have role models and leaders in the industry. I'm not suggesting, it's not about blowing my own trumpet, but I wish that I had have had some mentors back in the early days, because it was hard. Yeah, yeah, very difficult. Yeah, yeah, very difficult.
Speaker 1:And what's happened over the last probably 10, 15 years since I've applied for awards for myself and then judging positions, is I realized that every woman is incredible. Any woman that survives in this industry is unique in some way. Yeah, and they're always asking the same questions oh, I could never apply for an award, why should I apply for an award? And when I met you at Level Up and you said to me oh, my daughter is thinking about, you know, coming into the construction industry, it inspired me to write a couple of blogs that would inspire not just young women but women of any age to to enter the construction industry. It's not easy, but it's a hell of a lot easier than what it was 33 years ago there's a lot of room in the industry for females well we need more females in committees, in associations, most definitely, yeah, look I don't, I don't know why, um, why there's not more?
Speaker 2:I'm definitely trying to do my best to encourage people to get into the industry, like you. Just, everything in the world works better when there's there's two, two types of people in it, and I think it's fear.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, a little bit of fear. I I even notice like, over the last decade, men men like yourself are becoming more conscious, right? Not all men are becoming conscious, not all men are doing the work on themselves right. Self-development. You talk about the stigma all the time of meditating and that sort of being a little bit woo-woo, right, and you probably are a bit woo-woo to quite a few blokes out there right.
Speaker 1:But a lot of blokes. Traditionally in their bloodlines women would generally have a more traditional role. Yeah, so that's still very, very, very strong in a lot of bloodlines. And then I also find, even in my own position, talking to you know some building certifiers and commercial lawyers, there is still a lot of ego there. Right, yeah, men, men have a bit of ego and they don't necessarily they feel quite threatened by a woman, not because our intention is to make them feel uncomfortable, but sometimes they do.
Speaker 2:Oh, definitely, yeah, yeah, and there's no need for it. We all add value.
Speaker 1:We're all the same. It's about collaborating, right? Yeah, it's not about you being right and me being wrong. It's let's create a level playing field and come into alignment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think there is the ego. I feel goes both ways. There is also some women in the industry that they need to drop the ego because it puts people off.
Speaker 1:Well, it might be a little bit too scary for men as well. What inspired me to get into a male-dominated role is back in 1990, mum took a car for a service and I saw a female mechanic there and I said to mum that's what I want to do. I don't want to go back to grade 11. I want to go to trade college. So I spoke to a couple of the blokes in the workshop and they said never again would we employ a woman. She's a destruction.
Speaker 1:She's a pain in the ass, she's a feminist, you know all of that sort of thing. I did do the motor mechanics course, by the way, dwayne, yeah, yeah and finished it with flying colours, but I couldn't get an apprenticeship, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, look and look, definitely having two girls. Yeah, I'm keen to like, if I would love the industry to be in a position, when they're ready to get a job, that they're accepted into it.
Speaker 1:So on the website we've got a lot of links that young women or women of any age, they could be a grandmother, a lot of links to align them with associations where they can find jobs, they can find mentors, and then, in addition to that, any woman that perhaps she might be a first year apprentice or a woman that's leading or even launching a new product, a whole network of industry awards where she can apply for herself and get that recognition because, look, let's face it with not in construction awards, duane, but in in those awards, women in construction that there's no cost yeah, yeah and it's all free advertising.
Speaker 1:You don't have to win to to be showcased, yeah, yeah. So you inspired me to to create that and I believe it's an awesome resource. I think it's fantastic.
Speaker 2:I was really impressed when you sent me the link to it. There's so many. I'm not sure if you know about the girls in Tassie that have created the Go Company. It's the feminine packs for girls to have on websites.
Speaker 1:I did, I did see that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just see a lot of things happening in the industry that are changing it up and I guess blokes well, for all the blokes that listen to this podcast like, yeah, we need to pull our head in, like we've got to be support, more supportive and make women feel comfortable in this industry and and in return, the women can can come back to their feminine right and I've found that very difficult and I'm still working on it because I've had to be really hard and I come across as being incredibly aggressive at some times, but it really is passion.
Speaker 1:But a lot of women have to step out of that feminine role to show up in the construction industry, be really nice just to be able to sit back and still be soft and gentle and nurturing and respected and appreciated, rather than having to to be so strong, yeah, yeah, it must wear you out sometimes oh yeah, I wear myself out. Yes, absolutely, absolutely the other thing.
Speaker 2:We'll start to wrap it up shortly, but the uh, the other thing that I was really I didn't realize you're um such a big supporter of the tx guys. Yeah, I, yeah, I love the blokes. I think they do an incredible job where um um alliance members with them with live life, builds so, um, like it's a, it's a powerful message, isn't it what they absolutely look to wayne, we have builders that that share quite a lot of personal things with us.
Speaker 1:And again, my second opinion service. That didn't start until the new energy compliance code came in Right. So we've got builders that are projects are going to the wall, right yeah, or they're quoting on projects and then finding out that they're not viable. I've got to go back to the design board. That affects everything, right? Not just his quoting, but his life, his marriage, his relationship with his children. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it is legislation building and mental health. They all go hand in hand right. Yeah, and 8,000, nearly nearly 9 000 builder insolvencies yeah, so mental health is one of the highest things on my radar.
Speaker 2:absolutely yeah is it something that you've dealt with personally oh my, yes, yeah, most definitely.
Speaker 1:I've spent a couple of decades on a personal healing journey, a lot of trauma, in fact. In the last four years I've lost my mother, my father and my grandmother, so all three passed away. So it's been a very tough time, particularly for the last five years. A very tough time, particularly for the last five years. Uh, I've only just discovered recently I see a, a business psychologist coach. Yeah, two hours every fortnight. I've been doing that for a couple of years now to teach me to speak a little bit softer, a little bit calmer yeah and it's, it's been one of the one of the best things, and I didn't realize.
Speaker 1:Work for me, because I'm a bloody hard worker. All the women in my family are very hard workers. It's actually a conditioning, yeah, but it's also a destruction, yeah yeah yeah yeah, no, I think.
Speaker 2:Look, every, I think everyone deals with it in one way or another, don't they like it? There's always something going on in our lives that we've got to try and push through and and um, and then trying to keep motivated through those times. It wears you out sometimes. Yeah, yeah, no, look, helen, I really. I appreciate I'm gonna get stuck into some of this food now when we stop talking, but, um, look, we'll possibly get you back for round two, I think, at some point. But I really appreciate you coming on and just sharing your knowledge, because I do think energy efficiency is something that is really, uh, overlooked, misunderstood, like people just think that it's some tick and flick thing they have to do to be able to build a house, but it actually plays a really important role in the lifespan of the house, yeah, and the health and comfort.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So no, I appreciate your time. It's been really good having you.
Speaker 1:We will catch up so we can talk about an association.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely Stay tuned for that one. But look guys, as always, if you love this podcast, please share, like, subscribe, let everybody know about this podcast, because we are on a mission to make this Australia's or continue to make this Australia's number one construction podcast. We'll see you on the next one. Are you ready to build smarter, live better and enjoy life?
Speaker 2:Then head over to live like buildcom forward slash elevate to get started everything discussed during the level up podcast with me, duane pierce, is based solely on my own personal experiences and those experiences of my guests. The information, opinions and recommendations presented in this podcast are for general information only, and any reliance on the information provided in this podcast is done at your own risk. We recommend that you obtain your own professional advice in respect to the topics discussed during this podcast.