The "Level Up" with Duayne Pearce Podcast
I take on the role of an authoritative voice that fearlessly communicates truths drawn directly from my lived experiences. With a genuine sense of ownership, my insights are free from any hidden agendas – they truly belong to the audience. My stories and journey add remarkable value, the key now lies in harnessing its power effectively to help others.
My purpose is to create a new residential building industry. My mission is to inspire unshakable self-confidence in my colleagues in the industry, empowering them to orchestrate prosperous, enduring, and lucrative businesses that bring exceptional projects to fruition for our clients.
My goal is to foster a deeper comprehension among clients about the identity and functions of builders, redefining their perceptions.
The "Level Up" with Duayne Pearce Podcast
From Burnout to Freedom: Aussie Builder’s Journey to a Happier Life with Eric Vielle
Eric from VL Constructions shares his journey from burnout to success on the Level Up Podcast. Discover how this Brisbane builder used systems and mindset shifts to transform his construction business and life.
🏗️ Get tips for tradies to find freedom and balance! 📲
Follow @VLConstructions on Instagram!
Check out the Duayne Pearce website here...
https://duaynepearce.com/
I know you put the effort in and you get rewarded for it and it'll come your way like what you put out will come back to you.
Speaker 2:I just have this huge goal. The whole industry will be such a better and healthier and happier place.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. You have to go backwards sometimes to go forwards that's what we did, yeah that was a big thing was letting go of what you your part like, some of the things that hold you back from your past. At the end of the day, for me now it's not. I don't, the money's not the thing for me anymore. It's like like I go to work happy every day.
Speaker 2:Now we all get fed all this rubbish that you've got to do this and you've got to do that, but you, at the end of the day, you've got to do what works for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you just got to find your own path and then go well, that's what I'll, that's the way I want to do it. Everybody runs a business totally different. They're never the same. Yeah, you want everything now which you can't have.
Speaker 2:G'day guys. Welcome back to another episode of Level Up. We are back in the shed this afternoon with another cracking episode coming your way. The guy I've got with me today has been. I've been sort of trying to get him in the seat for a bloody fair while now, but he's been a little bit shit and bricks, so that's all good. We finally got him in here. But Eric from VL Constructions, how are you buddy?
Speaker 1:Yeah, good Thanks, dwayne.
Speaker 2:Good to be here so yeah, eric's another local Brizzy builder, so you've also been in the builder's breakfast group. Hey, here in Brisbane for a long time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, probably two years, I think in that one. So, yeah, it's been really good meeting all the guys in there, so yeah it's how I met you.
Speaker 2:And look Eric, he's a very humble guy, but Eric is kicking gulls. He actually was down the gull coast with us over the weekend and he's been a member of Live Life Build for over four years now and he took out our award for systemisation, mate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was really good. So, yeah, I put a heap of work into systems in our business. For a while now probably a year and a half I've been pushing it hard and, yeah, just starting to see all the rewards of, yeah, having the systems in the business.
Speaker 2:Well, let's dive into the systems, because I think systems are. It's one of the key areas. That's what's going to give you some freedom back. Yeah, absolutely. What was your turning point? What made you realize you needed to implement systems and processes?
Speaker 1:Probably. When I got an admin lady, I sort of or my sister started in our business and that sort of pushed me down that track going. Well, I've got to get everything out of my head onto paper. So at the beginning we were just we were just writing a process down and then just following that, but it just sort of we did a lot of admin ones, um, and then that sort of led into our on-site ones now, which is helping out a lot as well. So it just frees me up to do do other things in the business and gets everything out of my head, which it was for years. I was running everything.
Speaker 2:So yeah, because you've taken it the whole hog, but you've got our full intranet, like you've worked with our systems expert and you've got it all now. So your guys we're just talking about, like your guys on your site, actually have them access to the systems. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So we've done ours through our computer program. There we can write next to them and everything. So usually we'll try and go through them at our weekly site meetings for say two weeks or a week ahead and then get all the guys around, get their input into how we're going to do that next task and it just gets them involved, their involvement in it and work out they might have better ideas on how to do things. So we usually jot all that down and then it updates, we update that system and it flows on to the next job. So it works, yeah, really well for us.
Speaker 2:So are you getting buy-in from your team? Is your team acknowledging them?
Speaker 1:Yeah, like when we're doing the meetings, it works well because I usually set up a checklist and everything off the side of that as well to help out. But I don't know if they're looking at them all the time like going back into them, because there is a lot in there. But we've sort of set it out in a way that just works quite easily, that even the apprentices can go through it and check it on their phones and stuff like that about what's happening.
Speaker 2:There's something that's never finished. Your team's got a lot going on on site. So for me, I try and just remind the team all the time to use them as a bit of a checklist. So for me, I try and just remind the team all the time to use them as a bit of a checklist. I don't expect them to be looking at them constantly, but when they think they've finished a task, just go back and have a skim over it and it'll jog your memory whether you've missed a step or you might be doing cladding or something. Have you gone back and checked? All the boards are tied. Have you punched all your nails? Just little things like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, even like even one thing we do now is same thing on that same program. We'll have a tab called Learnings and we'll write stuff down on that. That stuff goes wrong, we'll get information out of that and then I'll update the system on. Something went wrong. So we've got to put a check in for that to make sure it doesn't happen again. Because, like, we were always getting to the end of the job looking at stuff and going, oh, what went wrong on that job? And then you just forget about it because it's been 12 months since it happened. So that was another thing. That sort of links to it as well. So that works well.
Speaker 2:Have you gone like you're using the systems with your contractors?
Speaker 1:No, not yet. That's something I've got to try and that's my next step to work on that. But we'll see how we? No, not yet. That's something I've got to try and that's my next step to work on that yeah.
Speaker 1:But we'll see how we go. We use them for our meetings on site with the contractors. So go through what we've got to do and just tick off all the like a tick list sort of thing, a checklist so that works. We don't miss anything when we're talking to them about the job, so we make sure we include everything. Yeah. But yeah. So how about do you do the same with your?
Speaker 2:We use systems. Well, look, so what we do with them is like when we send so every 12 months, when we resend our like worth making statements and all the insurance we've got to collect all their new insurances and all that type of thing, we'll send out the working with DP's construction system and if it's plaster, he'll get the managed plastering system and then they get re-sent again every time that we accept a job. So if we've started a new project and the plaster is getting sent the schedule and everything for that job and we're letting him know that, hey, we've accepted this quote, we just re-send them again. But, um, they're working very well, like our using. Talking about our plaster, like our plaster is is quite good because he has his own checklist. Like he's spent a lot of, he's invested a lot of time and money on himself and his business. So it's really enjoyable working with other businesses that are improving as well, because, like he point, he shows us where we're still needing improvement and we can show him where he still needs improvement.
Speaker 2:But yeah, um, I think the biggest thing that we're frustrated with when it comes to the systems with contractors, mate, is the pricing. Like I'm sick and tired of having to like I just feel like I've got to hold everyone's hand. Like we give them, we send them the plans and request pricing. And they give us pricing and then it comes time to do the job and they just try charging for every single extra they possibly can and look at the end of the day, it's our business. We've got to spend the time to make sure we're reviewing their quotes. But I see it the other way, like I believe if we're sending you a set of plans, it's your responsibility to price that job properly.
Speaker 2:And I think that's just. I was always brought up old school and worked for old school builders. Mate. You did not get variations, Like if you got asked to price something, it's on you If you missed it. You haven't allowed it too.
Speaker 1:Fucking bad yeah weird to do the same, like some of the plans I have to send out for quoting, and that you send it out, but you have to. I start to just put that much information in my scope of works now, and even sometimes I'll do videos for the guys explaining what's got to happen on a plan, just so they know they've included everything. Sometimes you get back and they don't give you a full scope. They should copy what you've given them in their price and give it back to you, but a lot of times you don't get that. I think probably the best ones we get are the electricians and stuff.
Speaker 2:They seem to itemise everything out and it's yeah, you know what's included, yeah, how many lights, which is all that type of stuff. But it makes it hard, like it's like a builder's job is just so much reviewing everyone else's shit, like we're the ones, we're the ones left holding the bloody bat when, when, things aren't right.
Speaker 2:So yeah, we have to pay for it all. Let's go back like we jumped into the deep end there. But take us back, like I mentioned before, you've been with live like bill for four years. Um. Take us back before that, like how did you get in the industry? Have you always um been in it?
Speaker 1:yeah, so I started um so I went through primary school, then went into high school and I did a vocational education course there, so it was furnishings and wood and metal work and then all trade-based subjects which I found awesome, like I don't know if they do it anymore at that school, but it's that sort of set me up for what I wanted to do and so through that you do one day a week work experience on it. So every Friday they do work experience and I did it with a Brisbane-based builder and he was an old-school builder that does everything roofing, all the concrete, everything.
Speaker 1:So, that was really good, having the experience with them. And then I did that for two years. Didn't get paid a cent like the school-based apprentices. This this year, this time they have to. You could get paid for going every Friday or whatever it is, which not I don't agree with. So but, yeah, did that for two years, got an apprenticeship with them, learn a lot about, um, learn a lot with these guys. They did all architectural stuff.
Speaker 1:Stay with them all the way through my time. And then I think, when I was sort of just got into fourth year, just handed the builder handed me like a $1.5 million job to go just run it and I had one of my. One of the chippies was about to leave. He had about a month, I think, before he left, so he mentored me through the start of the job and then I was on my own, yeah, and then just had guys with me helping me and that was just eye-opening for me, like I learnt heaps just being just being thrown in the deep end, having to think, think about everything. I called the, I called the boss all the time.
Speaker 1:But it's he didn't really care like, sometimes, the best way to learn is just getting thrown in the deep end, absolutely and and I was keen as to, though, like I loved, like all the way through my apprenticeship, even now, like I watched all the trades what they would like. I was still doing my work, but I would always have my corner of my eye open going, oh, what's the plumber doing? How's he doing that? Or how's the plaster hanging the sheet? Like I? Just I'm that sort of person, like I'm a visual learner, so I learnt a lot that way and I think, as a supervisor and stuff and running a project, you need to know the other trades a lot.
Speaker 1:So I did that, and then I think it was about I think two years after I'd finished my time the builder sort of ran out of work, but at that time we were doing a lot of project homes and that was another good thing that we learnt a lot of speed from that, and the guy I was working with was very systemised and every time he could find a better way to do something, he would just go no, we're doing it this way, this is heaps quicker and you just keep refining on every house. You'd refine the process and we just had it that we didn't have to speak to each other. We had an apprentice and him and me, and you just knew what each other were doing. You knew what tool you needed. It was all just flowed.
Speaker 2:Just to pull you up a little bit there, because it's something myself and I hear so many builders complaining about these days what drove you to or what incentive did you have to watch and learn and know what you had to do? Because I even see it with my own team now, with some of the carpenters and the younger guys Like they stand back, there's no thinking ahead, it's not like oh well, shit, he's doing that there, so I should be doing this here to stay ahead of him. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like. I don't know what it is like. I was taught old school but and I don't know if it was the fear of the boss kicking me in the ass or the yelling or whatever it was, but like.
Speaker 1:I don't. Well, for me I was in a great um with a great build that they weren't aggressive or anything like there was never yelling or anything like that. They were just really nice, but I really nice. But I think I was just. I think I was driven, like I always like I knew, from when I was, when I had an, when I was an apprentice, that I was like no, I want to be a builder, that's what I want to do. I had my name, my company, everything all set up or ready to go and I'm like, no, yeah, just wanted to achieve things, like I like achieving things, like setting goals and achieving stuff. And I think I just, yeah, it's just how I was brought up, sort of thing that you work hard.
Speaker 2:What do you think makes a team be in that position where, like you said, it's just like clockwork, like you just know what each other's doing?
Speaker 1:I think you just because they're on the same page for starters, like they, like they would the other guys, which was very driven as well and wanted to achieve things and just like we did big days and stuff like that but I think you just where's that going?
Speaker 2:you reckon with the, the new generation?
Speaker 1:I don't, I don't know they lack. I think they there's an instant thing. They want everything instantly. Like back then, like we had to work our ass off seven days a week and I wasn't on good money, like I just I never got, never asked for a pay rise. I just got what I got and then they would offer you a pay rise and I'd take that, because you showed that you deserved it.
Speaker 1:I showed that I deserved it. It's like that's the way I was sort of brought up. Is you sort of I don't know? You put the effort in and you get rewarded for it and it will come your way, like what you put out will come back to you. So I'm not sure where that's gone, because I don't know, like I was working with. I think when you work with a person for like I think I was working with him for like five years and you just start to I don't know, you grow close to them and you understand everything how they work and it just flows. But I suppose nowadays, even with my guys, they sort of move around a bit Like they're not always with the same people, which is a bit harder.
Speaker 2:I do think that's harder and I think that's probably something that affects my business, like when you grow your business and you end up with a big team. Like when I just I work with the same two guys. Yeah. Most of my apprenticeships, yeah, and I try and swap them around, like I try and get the. Let the apprentices have different experience with different carpenters.
Speaker 1:but yeah, I just yeah, I think that some I do the same, but I think sometimes it shoots me in the foot because you have to learn another way how they work, like the carpenter work, so I don't know. It's it's hard to keep everyone happy at the same time, so, um, but then you get to a point where you too it's like the point where right now it's like do I go, do I need more guys, or do I just stay where I am and sort of just keep it that size? It's hard.
Speaker 2:So it comes with new challenges. So, mate, sorry, I've added in back to your story.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, finished. What did I do? So I was two years out, basically, the builder ran out of work. So I'd already started my own company structure. So we were subbing for the builder, so I do 100% his work. But then he got a bit quiet. So I had a mate from the cycling club I was with who was a developer, and he was trying to get me to start and go and work for him. So I ended up doing that and like, worked hourly rate on.
Speaker 1:They basically did six-pack unit blocks where they would refurb them, the old. They basically did six-pack unit blocks where they would refurb them, the old ones, and 10-pack unit blocks. So we'd just go in and just smash those out and get that done. That was, we did that for probably two years and then in amongst that we built the developer's house, which got us in with an architect, and then we did another one for the other director of the company and then I ended up basically downsizing because the mate that I was with for a long time we sort of had a falling out and the apprentice had left and then it was just me left and then I just went well, stuff it, I'll just go and do my own thing, sort of thing. So I ended up working out at Somerset Dam for a mate building his house out there. So backwards and forwards, and then I got to a point where I worked out I can't work by myself. I just started talking to myself every day. So I'm like screw this.
Speaker 1:So I went and started, had another job lined up with a developer for his next house, so I did that and started just getting more guys. So I ended up I think back at about.
Speaker 2:So were you the builder for the developer.
Speaker 1:I was the, so I was under my license but it was all like basically cost plus but they would pay for all the materials. So it was me just paying, just getting paid for my labour. But back then I wasn't. I didn't know how to run a business, so I wasn't making any money off these. I was just turning over money and I was Sounds good at the time eh it sounds good because you guarantee this work, but it's, you're not making anything.
Speaker 1:Like the bank account's never going up. You just see it's stagnant. It just stays there and you're just like what the hell am I doing all this for? Like I'm taking the risk with my license on it.
Speaker 2:I did a post last week on my socials basically just saying how mum and dad, investors and developers are taking advantage of bills that don't understand how to run their business, and I got sucked into that for a long time.
Speaker 2:Like I thought oh man, I must be doing good. Like this developer wants me to do all this work and oh yeah, like it's guaranteed and he's got all this work and I'm like awesome. But yeah, all they're doing is taking advantage of you and I, because we didn't know what we should have been charging and they're the ones that are making all the money, yeah exactly right.
Speaker 1:So yeah, did that for a bit and then I got in with one of the architects that we kept doing work for after that and that sort of kept us going in high-end architectural stuff.
Speaker 1:And then I think I did I think it was probably three jobs and then there was one that just it was the next level up for us in that and cost-wise and by the end of that I was just I'd had enough, sort of thing. I had four guys with me working for me, um, and I think it just got to the point they were I priced like six for them and they were upwards, like they were going up to four and a half million dollars and stuff, and I just I wasn't winning them. And then I ended up having a chat to them and and they said, oh, you're too expensive and I'm looking at my figures just going, I can't do it any. I don't know how these other guys are beating me on the price Like they can't be making money and that's back when you weren't doing things right, that's when I wasn't doing anything right.
Speaker 1:So I basically, on that last I remember the night like I was pricing it and I basically just burst out in tears in front of the computer because I was doing it. All I did was it was all at night, because I was on the tools every day and I'd price it and I'd just look at myself and what the fuck am I doing, like pricing all these jobs, and I know I'm not going to get it and yet you price, like I knew that one was just a price check for the client.
Speaker 2:But you get stuck in that you have to keep doing it, because if you're not doing it you don't get the work.
Speaker 1:Exactly because I was at the time where I was just doing one job at a time, so I was just I'd have to start looking for the next job and and and call architects, but it wasn't the. The problem with the tender thing is you end up getting stuck in a like there's, there's no gap, like the clients don't like to wait, they just want to go oh, who's available? And start. And the bigger guys have they can move stuff around to start a job. And I was only one man, like like a one-job builder. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I was a bit harder. So I remember then that's when I found your Instagram and then I found Live Life Build, and then I joined that because I just had to change something, otherwise I was just going to give it up. I used to go to work and just say to the boys I'm going to go and drive a truck for a living, I can't be bothered with this anymore.
Speaker 2:You were telling your own team that, yeah, I'd had enough.
Speaker 1:I was done, so you're just stressed about it.
Speaker 2:How's the workout put on those sites if you're telling your own team that you're going to drive a truck? Yeah?
Speaker 1:My guys were good, they were good workers and everything. I still, um, still know them today and I've still got a few of them with me, but it's just mentally. You, I don't know you're done when you get to that point. You just had enough. You've checked out yeah and then.
Speaker 1:So I thought there's got to be something I can do better than this. And then found Live, life Build and then started the pack process and that and that's just. I think with that it's like it gives you the pipeline of work is the big thing that's changed for us. You're not stressing about where the next job's coming. There's always that work in front of you because you're going through the design phase. Yeah, and that's what's. And you know your outlook, like at the moment we're all the way out to end of next year. So it's it just.
Speaker 2:Yeah, helps heaps, like with stress levels and stuff like that it's just, yeah, you're like I said at the start, you're a very humble bloke like, but you you put in the effort like, so in our live, life, build in our community. We do what we call friday wins and your. Friday wins are always. You seem to be a very structured person. You have your time now that you sit in your office and get shit done. You've definitely kicked some massive goals in the last four years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I've even. A couple of weeks ago I turned 40 and I was actually reflecting back on just different things. I don't know what happens at 40. Happy birthday, mate. But I think the way you think about everything changes. Like even I said to my wife, it's like you get to a point in life where you're just like we're comfortable, like you don't have to. You stop the stressing about every little thing.
Speaker 2:I think Don't get too comfortable mate.
Speaker 1:No, I don't get comfortable. There's still I set goals and stuff like that, but I've always been like, even looking back, there's stuff that I said when I was in high school and stuff that I wanted to achieve, and I never wrote them down, it was just in my head and I kept saying I want to do this one, do it. And then you look back and you're like, shit, I've actually achieved all this stuff, but you don't realize you actually set out to achieve that years ago you set goals for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, so that's yeah, that's been really good and you and you've seen massive improvement in your home life as well, haven't you? With your family time?
Speaker 1:Yeah, just being. I think just, yeah, being present at home. I think the biggest thing for us was moving the office out of the house. That was number one for me. Like I, just every time I got home or be at home, I'm like, oh, I'll just go and finish that. And you sneak off after dinner and you go and do your work and just like, screw this, there's got to be something better. And you always think that you're on all the time, that you've got to answer the phone and all that sort of stuff. And now I just I don't answer the phone after 5.30, I'm done, that's it. And then don't answer it till the morning. And then same with weekends hands don't touch it yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's just being able to just separate the two, like have your personal life and your work life and just separate them and work out ways to control that yeah.
Speaker 1:So but yeah, just having the office away from home was a massive win for us, and then that also allowed us to put an admin person on, which started with my sister for a couple of years and then moved on to another lady. Now that does all our stuff, and that's another thing that just. I think admin's the biggest thing that changed our business is just getting everything, like all the little stuff that I don't have to do.
Speaker 2:Everyone needs help. Mate Like it really. It's a bit of a passion now and something I want to try and help as many traders and builders as I can Like. I just it's not fair that tradies just work their asses off all day, every day, on site, get home, have dinner, maybe not even spend any time with the kids, and then spend hours in there like I see it now some of some of the um times that my contractors will send emails through and I think, fuck.
Speaker 2:And I talked to him about like what are you doing? They're all sort of too head down, bum up.
Speaker 1:But I think that some people are too scared. I know I was at the beginning going, oh, what are they going to do for all these hours and stuff like that? And I'm like it doesn't you don't realise how quick you can fill their time, like I could fill another lady's time now with admin stuff if I wanted to. You still read a VA, no, so I never went down that path.
Speaker 1:I sort of need someone sitting next to me, that's just the way I am Like I struggle, like I struggled reading and writing and all that sort of stuff. So that was something like my admin lady. Just if she read my like she reads my stuff and fixes all the spelling and all that stuff up before I said stuff because, I'm just hopeless. But it's just nice, I think, having someone next to you to speak. I know it costs more to have someone there, but she's that efficient at what she does.
Speaker 2:I think that's a really important lesson. But for people that are listening, I do the same. We've got multiple people in the office, but I do spend a lot of time sitting beside them. But yeah, um, because I'm exactly. I'm the same. I'm dyslexic. I can't spell like I I. Whatever it is. I think is it gremlin or something we have on our computers now like I do. I do an email every line is just red and green.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then sometimes you click. I'm like I'm pretty sure it's not even in spellcheck the word you try to go. I use the dictator one. That's even better.
Speaker 2:Just write it all out that way and then check it but I think there's always like I let that sort of stuff hold me back for such a long time like there's always a way and I think like, obviously knowing your numbers and your data is a big thing.
Speaker 2:You've got to be able to know your numbers so the business can afford to employ the admin staff. But look, I just have this huge goal that by the time I leave this planet, like traders will understand the value, like they'll do their eight or nine hours a day, they'll go home, spend time with their family, because they'll be structured, they'll make money, they'll have someone in their office helping them and the whole industry will be such a better and healthier and happier place Absolutely.
Speaker 1:But I think you've got to go. You have to go backwards sometimes to go forwards. That's what we did. I didn't have it in our overhead to calculate, to have an admin lady on, I just went well, stuff it it actually worked out pretty good. My sister was put off during COVID, so that's where she came and worked for me then and that just worked out really well. But yeah, if you just sometimes you have to go backwards, it will cost you money and it cost us money at the beginning, but then we reap the rewards of it now coming through.
Speaker 2:And you're 100% Like. Sometimes you've got to take a pay cut, don't you? Yeah, absolutely. I hear like that's something Grant Cardone talks about a lot in his books Like you've got to make sacrifice to get ahead, so that sacrifice is taking a pay cut so that you can do something else to get you ahead quicker.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but even paying even the other thing. Learning is just paying yourself right. For years I was paying myself as a chippy and just and half the time like a lot of times because you'd lose on jobs. The chippy would earn more than you would earn and it's getting to that point of going. You're worth. You're worth this much. It's like the risk you're taking and and all the work you're putting in. You gotta get paid for that so it's not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was a big turning point for you, wasn't it? Like I think that was one of our kingscliff live events where you had a few realizations that you were held back from some old yeah, like I had.
Speaker 1:I remember in in high school I had a teacher told me I wouldn't make it and stuff and that, and I just after that I just went well, fuck you, I'm gonna prove you wrong. And yeah, I've proved him wrong now so he can get staffed wherever he is, but um, but I think yeah, that was a big thing was letting go of what you like, some of the things that hold you back from your past, that it's not bad to make money and earn a decent living from doing what you're doing and get paid for that.
Speaker 2:We can. All, I think, myself included, like a lot of us, I think are afraid to overtake people Like, if you don't, you're being brought up around a family that's worked their ass off to provide for you and it can really hold you back being concerned that you're going to earn more than what your parents did or your relatives do.
Speaker 1:But it gives you the opportunity to give back too. 100%.
Speaker 1:That's what I see, now I'd give back to my parents and stuff like that. I'm like, well, they sacrificed for me, I'll help them out. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, you can't. At the end of the day, for me now it's not, I don't, the money's not the thing for me anymore. It's like like I go to work happy every day. Now I don't like even today we had a massive drama on a job. I had one minute, I think I was just going fuming about it, and then I was fine. I'm like, well, nothing I can do about it, let's just work out. Was just going fuming about it and then I was fine. I'm like, well, there's nothing I can do about it, let's just work out a plan ahead and get over it and move on. Yeah, we lost money and stuff like that, but it's like, well, I can't do anything about it. Now we learn from it and don't do it again on the next job.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a good mindset to be in. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think that's sort of taken me. I reckon like I remember we did that drive 23,. I think we were on a bus with some guys and, yeah, I think that hot seat was another turning point for me, just the realisation, like I was at a even then I was at a point of going, oh, do I really want to do this or do I want to go do like cabinet making or furniture making or something? And just because I think I just found a sticky spot, because I just needed to move to the next stage in my business, like employ more guys, and I was scared of doing that, I think just going too big yeah but I think every year I go by it sort of just naturally happens the growth.
Speaker 1:I'm not forcing anything, it just sort of just happening that way, which is good, it's not just happening, mate. You're putting in the effort you manifest it and stuff, and it just stuff. It just works out.
Speaker 2:You're doing the hard work, you're putting in the effort. I see your Friday wins, mate, and the check-in call, and that You're putting in the effort. I think it's awesome. Now You've got your warehouse. You you've recently just up rebuilt the offices, haven't you in the in the warehouse?
Speaker 1:yeah, we're just finishing that off, or when I get my ass into gear, the boys are too busy, so but yeah, so you're very organized, you got good space, yeah, um even though, like we went from that last year, I got to a point we had eight running at a time and I just just couldn't physically run the jobs anymore.
Speaker 1:So I was just stressing out over it and I'm just like, no, I can't do this anymore. So I end up getting a construction manager in one of my guys that I put through his time and just getting rid of that load and putting it onto someone else where that's all they deal with. They don't have to deal with all the pricing of jobs and finding the work and that sort of stuff. That's another thing that just freed my head up massively.
Speaker 2:So just going to that so slowly, we're just implementing different things and employing more people, like a lot of people, say everyone's in that mindset where you can't charge more. But once you understand your costs, there's no turning back. You can't unknow what you know, and so there's no way you're going to do work for less than what it's costing you. There's no way you're going to do work and you're not physically going to get paid as a director and the owner of a company. So then it all obviously flows into your marketing and attracting the right types of clients and things. But it all comes together like it has for you now, and I assume you get a lot more freedom now than you did back in the day.
Speaker 1:I do, but I think I'm a workaholic. That's my problem. Which is okay. Like I like what I do, like I still do long hours and then it's the ADH thing, do you think yeah?
Speaker 1:Like that's. I just can't see it still like I'll like I struggle, like even sitting in the office. My prime time is from like a lot of times I even this morning I'm in there at three o'clock in the morning because I just had to get a proposal done. I might stuff it. I'll start at three o'clock, but every other day it's like four o'clock in the morning. I get in the office but I punch out more stuff in that period before the phone starts ringing. So usually until probably about 9 o'clock I'm really good and then I just sort of drop off. I'm not as good in the office. Anyone that?
Speaker 2:starts at 3 or 4 in the morning is not going to drop off at some point.
Speaker 1:No, but it's just. I don't know I don't need a lot of sleep. I go to bed early, but I don't need a lot of sleep. I go to bed early, but I don't need a lot of sleep. I'm happy to do it. That's just my problem. I'm not a night person.
Speaker 2:Mate, I'm the same. We all get fed all this rubbish that you've got to do this and you've got to do that, but at the end of the day, you've got to do what works for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you've just got to find your own path and then go. Well, that's the way I want to do it. Everybody runs a business totally different. They're never the same.
Speaker 2:So how's the team mate, Because you've had a lot of changes with your team over the last couple of years with everything that you've learnt and putting structure around them in place.
Speaker 1:Yep. So I've got three apprentices and three carpenters at the moment, just put on another carpenter. So that's been going well. And then I've got my admin lady in the office myself and then I've got our construction manager who runs all the projects and he's a little bit on the tools and then I sort of do this year we sort of changed around that I was freed up a little bit more that I can do sort of two or one and a half to two days a week on the tools, just to basically not to run any of the jobs or anything, just to work alongside apprentices and the guys on site, just to train them, because I was finding they used to like it when I came onto site and worked for the day. They were getting a lot out of it, the speed was there and they learnt a lot.
Speaker 1:So what we looked at was it's just a lot of the stuff in my head wasn't coming out, like they weren't getting all the information. I know, like the little tricks of the trade sort of stuff, because we did a lot of a lot of my guys were in during COVID. We did a lot of unit refurbs and we got really good at that, but we just got to a point where we're like, well, the guys can't keep doing this stuff and we're all getting sick of it. So we've gone back into doing larger homes and renovations now which the guys are loving, and what we found with that is they're just the skill level. I need to sort of train them back up again on all that stuff. So that's what we're doing at the moment is going through that phase, which I love, being back on the tools like swinging a hammer and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:But, it's good training Like I never used to be. I used to hate teaching people Like I used to. Just I was a micromanager and used to go in and just nah, I'll go and do it all myself, because I can't bother, just telling you how it is, how to do it, and yeah. So that's sort of I've changed the way. I've sort of looked at that now and gone. No, I actually enjoy going there and teaching the apprentices and the chippies and stuff, just new skills and that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's definitely something that's lacking in our team at the moment. I only just spoke to my supervisor about it yesterday and said look, the three of us probably need to start actually allocating some time to spend a day here and there with the team, just to stop talking about what we can do and how we do things like actually show them how we can do it. And it definitely makes a difference.
Speaker 2:The odd Saturday I work with the boys, all the teams on site but, actually going in and doing a full day's framing or fitting out or something like that I haven't done for a very long time. Yeah, yeah well, I do it in the shed and sometimes get the apprentices to come and help me in the framing or fitting out or something like that I haven't done for a very long time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, well, I do it. I do it in the shed and get sometimes get the apprentices to come and help me in the shed or whatever, like I'll go out and do Saturday out there.
Speaker 1:But it's, yeah, it's, it's definitely good training them you just see, you see them grow too, and I think that's the other thing is like. You see, pretty much except for one guy, I've trained every single one of them, of them that we've got at the moment and just seeing them like everything you've taught them is pretty much what you've like, it's all come to fruition, sort of thing.
Speaker 2:So how do you think it compares to when, like you mentioned before, when you were on site and everyone, like your boss, had lots of system processes, everything just flowed. When you're doing project builds, it got a lot quicker. Yeah. How? How do you flow that through into your team?
Speaker 1:Well, you've got to try and I think you've got to work out what drives them to begin with, I think, to see where they want to get to. And like I got one at the moment that wants to. He's just pushing to get somewhere and I'm like, okay, I'll help you get there. And he wants to be an open rise builder in that. So I'll help him as far as I can get and teach him and that. But he's willing to learn and take on things.
Speaker 1:And I think I don't know with, like the way I had it when I was like doing project homes and stuff with with another, a chippy and apprentice, it sort of flowed really well. But I think that was it was a time thing. Like we're saying like together, having the same guys all together, they just you learn to, you learn to read each other. And even like a guy that used to work for us, we're the same and it was probably only like work together on on my jobs for probably four years or something. But you just know like, do you know how you? Just even just passing a nail gun is just the simplest thing. Like, do you know how you you pass it with a handle, facing the perp, just and a drill, just simple things like that.
Speaker 1:It's just, and you know like you could put your hand behind you and that person was there already with whatever you wanted, like that's. I don't. I still don't know how you. I think that just comes with time. If you keep the same guys together, it sort of flourishes, like their relationship, I suppose, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I'm searching hard for it and I'm struggling to find it at the moment? Yeah, it's just like the younger generation just doesn't like. I don't know, it might piss some people off they just don't seem to have that. Their mind's always occupied with shit they've seen on Instagram or something. I think they're never fully focused on what they're doing. And if they do have a split second. Instead of being prepared, they'll look at their phone for two minutes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it opens up another can of worms in their head.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then like it's just, it really shits me yeah. Like productivity on. I forget the figures. There was a study only a couple of months ago that was saying like productivity in construction is massively down from where it was only like five years ago yeah, it's definitely a lot less than what it used to be.
Speaker 1:Like I remember we used to pump through Like I think I don't know in an architectural job it's a bit some of the jobs like you can push out framing stuff like that, and then you just get these slow bits where it's that detail that you've got to try and like I even pull my guys up and just say, look, just stop and draw out a plan of how we're going to do this. Don't just start a bullet, a gate at something and then you screw it up and then you've got to go backwards and fix the thing again. So I know, with project homes you can just punch out, you don't even have to think because you've done that many of them. It just gets done.
Speaker 2:As much as I hate to say it, I almost think that every apprentice should be compulsory that they do 12 months with a volume builder. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think so, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:Because it just well even not that, like when you finish your apprenticeship and you start contracting or something you should be made to a few frames on a project rate, so that you can learn that shit's not done. You don't make money.
Speaker 1:See, when we were doing project Home, we were hourly rate so it was a bit different. But we knew the builder wasn't making money, Like we could look at it and go, mate, I don't know how you make. We were running and we don't know how, because he had other guys on contract and I don't think they were making anything on it. So it's yeah, you've got to be super fast and accurate with everything.
Speaker 2:It's not a good way to make money. No, it's not. Well, you can't.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I couldn't do that, for I couldn't keep doing that same pace for like till I am now. Like at the age I am now, I'd be ratchet.
Speaker 2:Oh, no way, mate, so it's good.
Speaker 1:Like I used to find I used to work as an apprentice Like I used to do cashies Saturday, sundays for guys that I knew and man, I hardly ever had a weekend off. It was just cashies every weekend and do that, and then after work I'd go in and sometimes I'll do if they're commercial jobs I'll go and do night shift there and stuff and it's I don't know. You just get. I think back then I was driven because I had a goal I wanted to buy a house by a certain time, I wanted to be married by a certain age and all this sort of stuff. And it basically like the funny story is I always tell my parents I'm like I want to be married and move out by the time I'm 25. And I literally just I bought a house and moved out in just a couple of weeks before my birthday and that was but I never.
Speaker 1:You just think of things and, like I was saying before, you manifest things and it happens. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know With the speed thing, I'm not sure. Like they, just, I think there's too many distractions nowadays for people. Yeah, like the younger generation, they just, and I think they want everything now. They don't want to wait for anything or they don't want to work hard for it.
Speaker 2:Bones should be banned on job sites. Mate like schools. It breaks my heart to walk into a job site at Smoker and to see everyone sitting around their phone Like where's the camaraderie and the communication and the conversations and the laughter and the mucking around.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like it's just we used to have the newspapers go around. We were apprentices.
Speaker 3:That's everyone would get a bit of the newspaper and you'd have a read and then you'd talk about footy and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:But my guys are pretty good, like most of the time. We're having good chats at Smoko and stuff, like when I'm there I see that, so that's good. But yeah, I think the distraction thing is definitely high up there with what's causing a lot of it.
Speaker 2:So how do you go about getting all your work, mate? You do some pretty awesome homes.
Speaker 1:So I think all our stuff is mainly word of mouth and I just meet different people like different architects or designers through the process and then we just do stuff on Instagram and that.
Speaker 2:Because you're charging for your proposals.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we charge for proposals and then we do so. Then we've got a with a cabinet maker. We've sort of teamed up and he gives us a lot of leads as well, so we go in and do work with them. That's a lot of our unit refurb stuff which is really like which is good work during COVID, especially Like we didn't have any real any issues with like price rise and stuff because the jobs were smaller.
Speaker 1:So we sort of came out unscathed from that, but yeah, so just word of mouth, really a lot of our stuff and you do a good job for people and then they usually just pass your name on, and that's something I'm always proud of is like I won't walk away from a job, like there's jobs where I've lost heaps on, but I still will do everything perfect till the end, like I don't believe in doing a rough job or anything like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah and yeah so that's you do stuff on your socials and that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I do videos and stuff like that, and I'm just at a point now where I don't even look. I used to watch them back and then not post them. It was like no, I just send them. Now I've got someone that does all that for it. We just send it to her and they they post it for us. Yeah, so I don't care what people think, if they don't like it, they'll move on.
Speaker 2:So yeah, but you're attracting the clients that you want to attract exactly, yeah, social media is such an incredibly powerful tool yeah that um people aren't taking advantage of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, like a lot of our stuff isn't? I don't have a heap of finished stuff on there, mainly just videos about what we're doing on each job, sort of thing. Yeah. And then just the process of how we're doing it. That's all I mainly do, and I get comments all the time about it. Yeah, so, that's good.
Speaker 2:So do you like, with all the growth and everything you've had in the last few years, like do you think that you contribute a lot of that to like you're learning more about the business, or do you think that you contribute a lot of that to like you're learning more about the business, or do you contribute it to learning about yourself?
Speaker 1:I think a lot of it is myself, because I found I go up and down a lot and I find when my personal stuff's good, it's sort of everything flows just perfectly Like everything. You go ups and downs in your personal stuff all the time. Like you get like I wasn't doing a lot of fitness for a bit, like for ages. I never did. I did cycling and stuff for a while and then that died off and then didn't do anything and then I worked out.
Speaker 1:I just need to even just moving, like at the moment, I just every 15 minutes when I get to the office in the morning I just do some push-ups, sit-ups and and jumps and stuff, and it just just a little bit of exercise goes a long way. Yeah, um, and that helps out really well. Um, and then I think, just setting setting goals, like when we do the 6p wheel and stuff like that, it just you know the bits you got to work on and when the when the personal's down, I always go to the personal first and try and get that right, because other stuff just flows off that really well so what are you doing with your personal stuff, like what type of things you have you got to set routine and exercise and stuff?
Speaker 1:yeah, so that's pretty much so. Usually in the mornings I get to the office most mornings like 4 o'clock, 15 minutes I just do push-ups, sit-ups and do sort of burpees and stuff like that, and just wake up for the morning, sit down, have a coffee and that's pretty much my exercise. Then I'll take the dog for a walk, usually like two times a week and then on the weekends a bit more. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So that just, I think, even just going for a walk by yourself, you clear your head like no phone and stuff like that. I think I learned that from another guy. He just leaves his phone. Like you, just leave your phone at home, don't even bring it for a walk, you just go back to old school and just go. Well, I'll work it out if something happens, yeah, and it just you're disconnected. I think that's why, like I went, I really craved going camping and stuff, just to get away, like when I was in, when I was, um, stressed and stuff. I'd just go away and you don't, you just de-stress and I'd usually say, on the way coming back into the city you're like, oh shit, here it comes again. All all the stress.
Speaker 1:It's some I don't know what it is. You come back through Toowoomba or coming down the coast and it's like, oh shit, here it is. I've got all the stress again coming back. But that was years ago, that's how it was.
Speaker 2:But now I don't like. I said control, not the business. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so yeah, that's been really good. But yeah.
Speaker 2:And you're doing like you've done some pretty cool stuff with the family, like since you've got everything together now making money and stuff you've done all your backyard put a pretty awesome pool in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we put a pool in and stuff like that. It's just goals we've had that we just wanted to achieve and I just went well, stuff it, I'm going to do it. So I did something for the family finally, and then, like next year, I booked a holiday, I was down south to the snow, just simple things like that I would never have done because we didn't have the money sort of thing, I wasn't paying myself, right. And I think once you know you've got the money, the income coming in that you're supposed to be getting paid, you can do these other things that actually make you happy and you can relax and take your family out Like even just the amount of times we take the family out places. Now, I never used to. I was a tight ass, like I just never liked spending money at all. Tight ass Like I just, yeah, never liked spending money at all.
Speaker 1:And then now I'm just like, well, you can't take this shit to your grave Like you may, as well you may as well spend it with your family and use it and have experiences is probably our biggest thing that we do it's all about the experience, isn't?
Speaker 2:it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like things, things don't do it for us anymore. Like my wife and I I it's more just having experience with the kids and stuff like that. It's like items are just. They're just items. Like you get the, you get the thrill of gonna buy like the tool or whatever. But I can last the next day last yeah, you just you're over it pretty bloody quick you open the box?
Speaker 2:yeah, that's it's. Where's the next one?
Speaker 1:yeah, exactly you're trying to. You're trying to find that other endorphin hit so it's like yeah, but yeah.
Speaker 2:You get out a bit, don't you, and do a bit of camping, yeah, Because, we during COVID, my daughter got COVID. During COVID we did that trip and I had to pull out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember that we went through that one. Yeah, it was one of my kids, it was good, but that was pretty cool.
Speaker 2:I think you're a bit like me. You like getting out in the country and exploring and stuff. We went and visited that old sawmill.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all that was amazing. I'd love to go back out there and see all that. Any of that stuff, any of that history stuff around Gimpian stuff around there is just lovely to go see. But we used to go camping most like a fair few weekends during the year and that. But we haven't. Lately We've sort of gone away because we've done the whole like Amex thing that you guys put us onto and use points for stuff and go for flights and that. So that's been really good. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But once you've it's funny, once you've been in a nice hotel and that it's hard to go back to a bloody swag or a tent? No, it is.
Speaker 2:It makes me appreciate things I'm heading off next week for two weeks doing that charity rally again. So I've got two weeks in the swag this time. Oh nice.
Speaker 1:Hopefully it's not a leaky one, you'll be right.
Speaker 2:No, it's not a leaky one, but I'm really looking forward to it just getting out in the stars. I think I'm a bit overdue for a bit of me time, and actually it's from someone from my level up experience has won the Pat and the Co driver, so I've got to make it all the way from here to Broken Hill and back on my own, like he's going to meet me down there. So, yeah, I've got four days there and four days back to just cruise some back roads and crank the tunes.
Speaker 2:You've got a lot of thinking in that time, crank the tunes and, yeah, I'll be swaying it on the side of, hopefully, some billabong or creek somewhere just chilling out. Oh, wicked.
Speaker 2:That sounds like a lot of fun. Oh, mate, I can't wait. Just to take some time out. Mate, I really appreciate your time Before we get out of here. Is there anything that you'd like to mention to listeners? I guess for someone out there that's thinking that life's shit, life's hard, business sucks, like I'm not doing the right thing, like, what sort of advice have you got for those types of people?
Speaker 1:I think you've just got to believe in yourself that you can do, that things can change. Like you got to get in contact with the right people. I think, like for me, like live, life, build was it for me and that's sort of changed everything for me. Like just believing believing you can change things doesn't always have to be that same way. Like it's it's not much to change a little bit in your business and it goes along like it changes a lot of things. So I think just you've got to get out of your comfort zone too. That's the other thing. It's like even me doing this, I'm like shit scared, but it's fine.
Speaker 2:Mate, you were shitting bricks and you have smashed it out like seriously, all good You're bloody talking. Well, you're bloody talking well, you're confident. It's awesome. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I think you've just got to get out of your comfort zone and just there's something better around the corner for you. So it doesn't always have to be depressing being a builder and that.
Speaker 2:What about timing? Like everyone talks about timing, like it's not the right time, I can't afford it.
Speaker 1:Well, you've just got to go, like I said before, go backwards, like sometimes you've just got to sacrifice not going out to dinner and stuff like that and just save your money that way and go. Well, okay, to get ahead you've got to go backwards, so you've just got to sacrifice things. But you've got to be willing to do that and you'll succeed, I suppose.
Speaker 2:Everyone in this day and age, once, once, both of everything, yeah you want everything now which you can't have.
Speaker 1:Like you gotta do the hard yards to get to that point. And then, once you get to that point, it just, it just flow.
Speaker 2:Everything seems to flow a lot better yeah and mate, where, uh, where can people find you if they want to look you up and see what you got going on?
Speaker 1:uh, we're on instagram just under vl constructions, um, and facebook, and then on on the website as well. So yeah just get on there and you can flick us a link, uh, flick us a email through the inquiry form and yeah all good excellent.
Speaker 2:Well, I really appreciate your time and, um, I do. I really appreciate how humble you are and you've definitely come a very long way in the last four years and I'm super proud of you. Well, lottie hasn't done netball this year, but we were running into Sarah quite a bit at the netball courts and you can just feel both. Your energy is so much better than it was when we first met four years ago.
Speaker 2:So mate keep smashing it out and keep doing what you're doing, because it's paying off not just for you, but for your family as well. Cool, thanks for having me on. Appreciate it. No worries.
Speaker 2:Well, guys, thanks for watching. Make sure you like, subscribe all those types of things, Share this podcast with all your friends so we can continue to make this Australia's number one construction podcast. If you haven't been to my website yet, duanepeircecom, make sure you go there and purchase your merchandise. We want every tradie in Australia wearing some form of level up gear so that everyone can help my mission to create a new building industry. I look forward to seeing you on the next one. Are you ready to build smarter, live better?
Speaker 1:and enjoy life.
Speaker 2:Then head over to livelikebuildcom forward slash elevate to get started everything discussed during the level up podcast with me, dwayne pierce, is based solely on my own personal experiences and those experiences of my guests. The information, opinions and recommendations presented in this podcast are for general information only, and any reliance on the information provided in this podcast is done at your own risk. We recommend that you obtain your own professional advice in respect to the topics discussed during this podcast.