The "Level Up" with Duayne Pearce Podcast
I take on the role of an authoritative voice that fearlessly communicates truths drawn directly from my lived experiences. With a genuine sense of ownership, my insights are free from any hidden agendas – they truly belong to the audience. My stories and journey add remarkable value, the key now lies in harnessing its power effectively to help others.
My purpose is to create a new residential building industry. My mission is to inspire unshakable self-confidence in my colleagues in the industry, empowering them to orchestrate prosperous, enduring, and lucrative businesses that bring exceptional projects to fruition for our clients.
My goal is to foster a deeper comprehension among clients about the identity and functions of builders, redefining their perceptions.
The "Level Up" with Duayne Pearce Podcast
The Real Challenges of Running a Building Business (And How to Overcome Them!) | Duayne Pearce
🔗 Check out Haiku Building:
https://haikubuilding.com.au/
🔗 Highwood Timber Instagram: / haiku.building
Join us for an inspiring conversation with Todd Parris, a builder who transformed his business and life by embracing data, systems, and a passion for healthy homes. In this episode, Todd shares his journey from working with his dad to running his own award-winning building company, the challenges he faced, and the lessons he learned along the way.
Discover how Todd overcame overwhelm, built a strong team, and shifted his focus to building healthier, more sustainable homes for his clients. Whether you’re a builder, business owner, or just love stories of growth and resilience, this episode is packed with practical advice and real-world insights.
Check out the Duayne Pearce website here...
https://duaynepearce.com/
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Level Up. We are back in the shed this afternoon for another cracking episode. Look, another one that I'm really excited about, another builder, another member of Live Life Builds Elevate program, and another builder that has come an incredible long way in the last couple of years. So I'm really pleased to have him sitting in the hot seat to uh have a chat about where he was, where he was at, and where he is now. So big warm welcome to Todd from Haiku Building. How are you, buddy? Thanks, Duane.
SPEAKER_01:Um been a bit of a mission to get here today. It has, yeah. I sort of I left Sydney in an absolute rainy hellhole. And um it's good to be up here in the sunshine.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, the um it is absolutely blowing its ass off here today. So I think that might have led to some of your delays, but anyway. Um mate, we got a lot to talk about. Like you you're kicking goals. Um, you've come a long way in the last couple of years. How long have you been with Elevate? Uh so over two years now. Um exactly, but yeah, over two years. Yeah. Yeah. So take us back before we start getting into business and those sorts of things. Like, give us a little bit of your background. How'd you become a builder? How'd you get into it?
SPEAKER_01:So I was uh an apprentice with my dad, worked with him for I think it's probably about 12 years, maybe 11 years. Um and yeah, started out with him, we did renovations, we did pretty widespread um range of work and loved it. We were doing really good work, finished my trade with him and then stayed with him working for a few more years after that. Uh, we were sort of doing really nice architectural work in Sydney, and I was learning a lot, so I was happy to stay and keep learning, but um inevitably, yeah, just decided to go out on my own and give it a crack.
SPEAKER_00:The um I know when you first reached out to come to Elevate, you're a little bit um little bit iffy on it because the main reason you were sort of reaching out was because you you knew there had to be a better way to do things and you wanted to hit the ground running a bit because you hadn't been gone very long for your yourself, have you?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think also I when I started, so I was working with my dad, we were doing nice work, we were doing really good jobs, and I didn't want to go out on my own and then sort of go back to you know doing smaller jobs and work my way back up to the jobs we were doing. So I sort of wanted to use the time while I was with him to sort of hone my skills and learn what I could, and then when I went out on my own, tackle the kind of jobs that we wanted to from the outset, um, which we did. We we sort of got lucky, we got got a good job that came through, which was exactly the kind of work that we like to do, um, which is like renovating terraces in Sydney and the older houses. Um and that was good. We went from that to another a bigger job, um, and then from that to another similar job after that. And it was really good in a sense that we were doing the work that we wanted to do. Um although because they were bigger jobs, I was learning big lessons, and I I I wasn't getting I guess I wasn't getting the feedback quick enough. Like if you were doing decks or doing smaller projects, you're getting that feedback pretty quick. So, what do you mean by feedback? Well, like not making money. Making money, making mistakes, or yeah. Um, like we nothing wrong with the bills, that we were doing great jobs, but it was more just a bit like the business side of things where I was struggling. Um, and so for me, like, although we were doing really good work and I loved the jobs that we were doing, for me it was a bit of a hard journey those initial couple of years. It was also through COVID as well. So we had um, I mean, some people did quite well through COVID. We struggled with materials and availability, and so there was a lot of lessons wrapped up in that as well.
SPEAKER_00:So, did you do any of the business side of things when you're working with your dad?
SPEAKER_01:Uh no, no, no, not at all. So it was just um myself, there was another carpenter, um, and yeah, we did renovation sort of work, so he was managing everything on his own, and yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So, had you like did you have any idea of what was involved in the business side of the side of it? Uh no.
SPEAKER_01:Like I wasn't uh I wasn't completely naive to it. Like I enjoyed when I was working with him, I was um using that time to sort of learn to manage jobs, but it was more only from like a project point of view, not like a business point of view. So um, yeah, I guess I kind of jumped into it and um we worked things out, like nothing really went wrong dramatically, but it was just uh lots of lessons picked up in those first few years.
SPEAKER_00:So, how did you know how to price the job and make money?
SPEAKER_01:And uh it's funny, like I I actually remember taking my first job, I think, to to dad, and um I think I'd I'd gone through and sort of worked it all out, and he was just in his office, sort of eating an apple, and he looked over, he's like, Yeah, I had to look through that, looks alright. I mean, oh yeah, cool. Is that it? He goes, Yeah, looks alright. And so I was like, All right, cool, sweet, away we go. And um that was it, you signed a contract. And it's yeah, I I mean, I was confident with like my like hours and materials and stuff like that. Like, I'm pretty good with planning and setting out spreadsheets and doing all that stuff, but um obviously like there's so many things that are unforeseen, especially in those you know, smaller terrace jobs, and so yeah, I mean, I a lot of lot learned a lot of lessons early.
SPEAKER_00:So um so like in your early days when you're starting out on your own, did you were you in communication with your old boy a bit, like asking questions and stuff, or was that sort of off the table?
SPEAKER_01:Um I wasn't off the table. Like we spoke about stuff, but not not really, yeah. Not nah. Not really. Like not that I not that I wouldn't reach out like I would for sure, but I just we just I guess just didn't. Yeah, he was doing his thing, I was doing my thing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Both pedaling away. Yeah. So what made you get to a point where you you thought, shit, I I need a bit of a hand with what I'm doing here?
SPEAKER_01:Uh I think it was so after so when COVID happened, we had one job where like we we couldn't get sheets, we were driving around like all of Sydney trying to get sheets for plaster, and there was just multiple things through a couple of jobs, um, because it was over two jobs for us that um that really took a pinch for us. And so it was at that point where I was like, oh, it's really not that easy. I think when you start, it's all you know, you're bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, and you got everything set up and you just you're just pedaling away. Um, but I think it's also easy just to keep pedaling, you don't have much time to sort of look back and see what's going wrong. But um I think actually for us that COVID was actually a blessing that it highlighted problems that we probably wouldn't have picked up on had that not occurred. Yeah. And so I was actually grateful that that happened because the jobs going forward, I was able to pick up on errors that maybe wouldn't have showed up if COVID hadn't have been there. Yeah. And so that allowed me to sort of look back and go, all right, well, there's a lot of things that we need to fix and get right first.
SPEAKER_00:So is New Cerfile similar to Queensland, like to get your builder's license, you you've got to sit a bit of a business, like three-day business course, they talk you through a building contract and then give you a license. So what what happens down there?
SPEAKER_01:So you do a certificate four, which is the I mean the normal path is you're a carpenter and you go through the certificate four. Um I think that I think that's um that course has actually been condensed down quite a lot from what it was. Um so I actually finished the cert four wanting more information. And I was like, I remember going through the course and being like, this can't be it. Like we've sort of glazed over a few subjects, but we haven't gone into much depth. Um so I I went out after that and sought more help through a like an online university and did a diploma of construction project management, which helped it helped more so with uh like managing bigger projects and planning and all that sort of stuff. Um but really nothing on the business front. Yeah, like nothing, and that's it's certainly a huge hole that's missing because it's crazy, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00:That builders and and even traders these days can literally get a license and like within sometimes could be a matter of weeks, you're signing a contract for hundreds of millions of dollars, yeah, and you're expected to know how to manage and control and maintain and quality and like run teams. Like it's just insane.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I think the home warranty is was a huge thing. Early um home warranty in New South Wales can be can be tricky when you're starting out, especially if you're a company. Uh and so learning a lot about that, like there could be a course individually on home warranty and what they want, because yeah, honestly, like um that's a huge part of running a business, certainly in New South Wales, you need to manage that.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, I think I know as much as people hate it, it it's probably something that needs to be rolled out to other areas of Australia. Like you look at Tasmania where they don't have any of that. Yeah, like it's it's only like I know it can be painful, but it's only a good thing. Yeah. Like making businesses manage their cash flow, understand their numbers to make sure they're not gonna go bally up uh during a build. But um, so yeah, like what was the final straw, I guess, to to go shit. I'm gonna go and look for something and get some help with this.
SPEAKER_01:Oh look, I think um I think it was just the overwhelm. I actually remember, I remember the phone call I first had with you. Uh I was at the front of this job, we just demolished it, and I was just like, oh man. Just this feeling of overwhelm. We'd had two big jobs that got finished, and I was fine. Like, I'm not, I'm very confident with like building and building a house of no problem. Like, I'm not there's nothing that there's nothing I've come across in a job where I'm like, oh I mean, I can't do this, it's just the business side of things. So I think it was that overwhelm of just not knowing what I didn't know, and then I reached out to a few different coaches at that same time. Um, and it was just I just didn't really gel with anything like they were saying, or and then I sort of came came across your stuff. Um, I think it was through Amelia actually, and then yeah, came came across you, and then just yeah, I I just feel like there was just I I was very aligned with it with what you were teaching, and it was just we live and breathe it, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's uh I think it does make a very big difference, but um I've I've seen your work mate on socials, and it like you do some pretty complicated stuff. Like, I we don't have anything like those little terrace hours here in Brisbane. Like we we have little workers' cottages and things in town where there's small lots, and we've recently finished once uh one of them, and uh every time you do it, it's a learning curve because you don't realise how much time is taken up moving shit around manually because there's no room to do anything. Yeah, yeah. Um, but like it I can I understand where you're at, and I think all builders can. Like when you're so confident in building and you can pick up a very detailed set of drawings and you can take that from a set of pages to a finished project, it can be very hard to like you can be very hard on yourself to think, shit, what's wrong with me? Like, why can't I make this work? What's going on? Why's my bank account got no money? Like, why am I having all these issues? Like, I can do this shit. Yeah, yeah. But it's far more than just being able to like running a business in the construction industry is far more than being able to do your trade and build the building.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I I said to someone recently, I said, it it sounds stupid and people would think this is ridiculous to say, but the problem with building, well not the problem with building, but one of like the hardest thing with a building business is not building houses and building homes, it's it's just the it's the it's making the business work to be profitable. And that's it. If you could go to work and just someone kept everything on behind the scenes and you just worked away, it's it's fine, you know. You just make things work, you come across issues, you resolve them, but it's it's keeping all of it together at at once and keeping everything moving. It's yeah, it's tricky and it can be overwhelming, and that's that's why I sort of reached out. Um yeah, like I was I was confident with what we were doing and what we were building and stuff, but yeah, I just needed I needed more help behind the scenes.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's hard, like so many people, it's hard to have conversations with people that aren't builders in because they like unless you've tried to run a building business, you really can't get your head around it. Yeah um, and the only the best way I can explain it is it it's two businesses. Like you have the construction part of it, which a lot of people are really good at, and you have the business part of it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And without the business part of it, the construction part falls over really quickly.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, you'll end up working your whole life, like just busting your ass to try and stay above water.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Um so mate, how like what were the biggest changes, I guess, once you started like did you know what you needed to work on, or is it like um yeah, I did.
SPEAKER_01:Look, I I knew uh I knew overheads for me initially were were an issue. Um because we were we were tracking our projects and stuff like that, with like in terms of costs, um, and we were executing the jobs well. For me, it was it was just yeah, um initially it was just that profit and cash flow and and so learning overheads, like what is an overhead, because it I mean initially I just sort of jumped into um I think it was M M Y O B originally and just sort of went away running the business and putting things where I thought they should be, and and then that was it, and we just kind of kept pedaling. But I I knew that I wasn't um I just wasn't doing everything properly. I needed help. I didn't really know where to reach out in terms of like bookkeeping and stuff like that. Um, we had a bookkeeper at the time, and yeah, so I just I knew I had to make a change. I I think initially it was overheads, um, and then also we had an issue with home warranty, which um we had to resolve as well. So there was just there's a lot of moving parts for it.
SPEAKER_00:It can be hard. Like if you're a if you're in a situation where you're you're good with data and you're you're quoting the jobs accurately and you're you're tracking all your costs as you're building the project and they're lining up. Like you can see on paper, you're you've you've allowed enough for carpentry, framing, whatever it may be. And but you're looking at your bank account and you're like, What why have I got no money? Yeah, where we're like we're invoicing for this, we're covering our costs, like what's going on here? Um, because overheads are something that I I don't know why we're not taught about overheads at school. Like it should be a subject. Yeah, because it doesn't matter what industry in every business has overheads. Yeah, um, the amount of people that reach out to me, um, overheads is one of the first things I ask people, like, what's your overheads? And the amount of people that respond with I don't have any. Like, yeah, mate, every business has overheads. Oh no, it's fine, I own my car, I've only got my phone. Like, oh what about all your insurances? What about fuel to get to and from work? Like, what about this? What about that? And you're like, oh shit, is that overheads? Like it's um plus the fact that like every business owner needs to get paid for the role they play. Um, are those the sorts of things that you were missing out?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I think also like so. We were doing so we were I was sort of brought up a lot of the jobs we were doing with with dad previously were cost plus contracts. Um I wanted to just be wiped from that. I don't like cost plus contracts, I don't like what they do to the relationship in the building. Um what what why is that?
SPEAKER_00:What have you saying?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I just I think it becomes like with a cost plus contract, I find it just becomes everything becomes so focused on the money and focused on um counting everything out, you know, whether it's tracking hours and doing which is which is totally fine, but it brings the relationship away from like we're providing a service, like a complete package service. Um and but by going into a cost plus contract, in my opinion, the whole way through that job, everything's coming back to price and this, and it just becomes this to and fro.
SPEAKER_00:And yeah, the focus gets taken away from the experience that the client should be.
SPEAKER_01:The experience, yeah, exactly. And and and for me, that was one of the driving forces of me going out of my own was to have good client experiences. Like I've we wanted to build good houses for good people from the outset, and um relationships for us is is huge, and there's no better feeling than walking away from a job and having a good relationship with that with that family, like um, you know, better than making a profit, in my opinion. Like you can walk away and not make any money if you've got a good relationship and you build a good house, then that's a that's successful.
SPEAKER_00:But they go hand in hand, like nine times out of ten, if you build a great relationship with a client, they're happy to pay you what the job like what you need to make a profitable business. Yeah, and so you you get two, you get both. You get a good relationship and the profit.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, um, and so what like it's one of those things you don't know what you don't know, do you? Like, and look, every I think our class every day is a school day, like every single day there is stuff to learn in running a business. So, but you just took to it like a duck to water. Like, I know you're very humble, and I I feel you're very hard on yourself. Um, like mate, you just bloody took away a wardrobe full of trophies from uh from Live Life Bill's bloody awards night.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like you're kicking goals. So, like, how and you and you like I said, you took to it like a duck to water. Like, what was the driver? Like, were you seeing progress quite quickly, and that drove you just to keep improving more and more?
SPEAKER_01:Um, yeah, I think like I love work, I just love I love building, I love work, I love the I love the office side of things. Like so, I I guess in some respects I'm a bit of a workaholic. Um but I think for me when I joined up with Live Life Build, having a path where I could sort of see things clearer, knowing that I'm not gonna pedal a million miles in the in the wrong direction. For me, that was just it gave me clarity that I could go, all right, sweet. Like I was aligned with the fixed price um teachings that you guys go on about. Um and I was like, yeah, this is my jam, the pack process, like collaboration, working with the clients, like this is exactly where I want to be. And so for me, I knew that it was just I can just push as hard as I can down this road because I know that's where I want to be.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So tell us a little bit about the PAC process because there's still a lot of people out there saying that that's crazy. You can't people won't pay to get a proposal.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so the PAC process for us has been has been huge. It's it's one of those things where like now I look back when we were starting to do it, uh, like we've improved it a lot over the years, and um, like now we're at a really good spot with it. I think initially the first few, like I was it's a it's a daunting thing to go out and and sort of do, especially like being brought up around architects and builders and stuff who were just you know, spinning tenders, and you just that's that's the only way forward. And we were getting sent a lot of tenders, a lot of nice work to do, and um I just didn't want to be involved with it.
SPEAKER_00:So um for me I was straight into the pack process because So how did you get the courage to say no to those jobs when you needed work?
SPEAKER_01:Um so we were initially when we were working on uh jobs before we started with you guys and doing the pack process, we weren't like we weren't charging for for quotes and stuff, but we were working with them from the start and spending a lot of time with our clients to get it to a point where we can sign a contract because it's a fixed price contract, and that's the work we need to do. And so the progression kind of made sense for me, and the process made sense. Um, it was more the confidence to go out and ask for it. Um but now looking back, like the time that we spend in that process is is huge. And like I know now, I even look back on jobs where the first pack process we did, I look back on that, and there was things that we should have spent more time on um before we signed the contracts that would have made that job flow better, just little selections and stuff like that. And so now I'm sort of a lot more firm with it, and that's and that that comes into having a better um workflow as well. Like everything's connected, you can't you can't be sort of pushing back on jobs if you don't have the workflow there. It's all kind of connected in a big circle, I think.
SPEAKER_00:So it definitely is, and yeah, the universe is crazy what it gives you back once you get once you connect all the dots. Um and look, you've definitely had a lot of uh success with the PAC process and things, but one thing I like, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you're you're very uh much wanting to build healthy homes and and um you're leaning more towards passive house, correct?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um and you've gone as far as starting to write into your contracts the air changes per hour.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so we like like to be fair, like we've we've never done a certified passive house. Um so initially, when we before I started Haiku, we um like I went out and did the passive house course, and for me that was huge, super enlightening, and it just made so much sense. Um and then I sort of went down the healthy home route and learned about that, and I think all these things together, like for me, there's no one way to to go about building a house, and I don't want to pigeonhole myself into anything, but every client, every family's different and got different, like everyone lives differently in their houses. Um and so it's learning about all the different ways that we can build and kind of piecing together, like we've got non-negotiables now with the way we do our houses, which is like your external wrap, like a really good quality, like Pro Climber wrap, um, ventilated cavity button, good insulation, insulation inspections. Um, who's doing the insulation inspections? So we just do we just have a checklist that we go through. It's um we just take photos of each wall, each ceiling, all that sort of stuff. Um and but just doing that, like that's not that's not going overboard, you're not spending much more. Like, and you obviously high-quality windows, like double glaze windows. Um, and I mean the way things are moving with the code, I think that should be the minimum. Like, and after what we've learned um through all this process, there's nothing I've learned that you'd take out and go, oh no, we'll just leave that out for this job and we'll go back to doing it the old way.
SPEAKER_00:Once you understand how a building performs and definitely the wraps and the cavity batten and the windows, like you yeah, you can't go back. Like it's um you really got to treat every building like a living, breathing thing. Like um, but like that sort of thing is giving your clients a lot of confidence, like to see that you're pushing so hard that you've made that a standard. Like if they build with high queue, this is what you get.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, like I think you have to like if you're selling um like the wrap and you're selling all this, you need to sort of be testing it at the end of the day. Um, whether or not you're going to passive power standards, or a lot of the houses we do are old terraces, so you're dealing with a like a party wall, you might be dealing with a timber subfloor. Um and a lot of that comes into it, it's really, really hard in terms of air sealing. Um, so some of the jobs, like we've done slabs all the way through, um, one we've got on at the moment, which is like half concrete, half subfloor. It's it's tricky, and you spend so much time in doing it. Uh it's yeah, it can be a lot. And you go through, and even still now, like we track all our our data and timesheets and materials and all that sort of stuff. And I know um there's so much time that goes into it on those old jobs.
SPEAKER_00:So, how do you was that a client um requested thing? Or was that like the airchain, like writing air changes per hour into a contract? Is that something that you're you're wanting to do?
SPEAKER_01:Uh so that was a conversation with the client about that. Um, because and it was, I think it's fair enough because they were asking about you know, they're gonna spend all this money on the wrap, and how do we know it's gonna be it's gonna perform? Um and so yeah, we just wrote it in for that one, and I think it's the way it should be.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, 100%. And um I don't know. I I think I feel like a lot of builders out there don't even understand that it's actually already in the building code that we are supposed to be building. Yeah. Under is it? I think it's under 10 air changes or air.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but I I I actually would like, and I know they're talking about like you know, going back and testing and um giving some sort of certification to jobs in the future, but I think it'd be good to have some sort of certification that's like a stamp. So when you're selling that house, whether it's an old beaten-up cottage or whether it's a new build that you've just completed, it comes with all that information, like a washing machine, like four and a half stars.
SPEAKER_00:Mate, I'm 100% with you there. Uh, it's something we're introducing into our building business. Um, like Paula Baker of Pork gave me the idea when she was in here. Like they she said, why why don't our houses have like you go to the supermarket and you buy food? Like every every label has to have on the sugar, the carbohydrates, like all that stuff. Like, why should our houses not have a sticker on the inside of the kitchen cupboard that says this is your R value, this is the type of insulation that it had, this is a building wrap that it had, like, this is how many air changes it had per hour. Yeah. Um, to me, and I do believe it will go that way, and I do believe that any builders that are going to that length, and like it's something like I said, we we're going to create our own little stickers for that. I believe it's something that will add value when the house comes time to get sold. Yeah. Um because yeah, to me, it's just a no-brainer. Like, once you know how all this stuff works, it it's um, and I feel like COVID has really like obviously COVID highlighted a lot of things, especially like people living healthier. Yeah, and I really feel that's now starting to push through. Everyone's been going to farmers markets and eating healthier, and now they're starting to figure out well shit, our houses has a big part to play in our life. We need to be doing things that make our like our sleeping better, our environment better, yeah, like our air quality better.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, 100%. Like we've we've uh I guess we've been lucky from the start. We've we've attracted good clients that have been like-minded in that sense. Um, so the area that we do work in, like in inner west of Sydney, there's um, I don't know, for whatever, for whatever reason, we've had like a really, really good run of clients and everyone's super aligned, they're on the same page. So you're not you're not sort of it's not that I'm selling something, like like you're putting yourself out there. Yeah, you just I'm I'm teaching them how we should be.
SPEAKER_00:You're too humble, mate. You're attracting these clients. Like yeah, yeah. It's not it's not just magically happen, like you're you're putting it out there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but I think it's it's up to us as builders in that initial stage to be teaching them about this stuff as well. Um not necessarily like railroading them into one type of building, but just teaching them what's what's important um and why it's important and what it does, because it's it's a huge investment. And like I I know for me, once I learnt this stuff, I was just like, oh man, this is I can't believe people are actually building houses now who don't know this. It's like it's just scary. Like it's but uh yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You you you talk about this, these things on your socials, but don't you as well?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean that's something I've only just started getting comfortable with, I guess, talking on socials and doing this sort of stuff.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah. But you I think in the past I've seen some good stills. Like you've you've done posts where you're you're commenting and and educating people on yeah, um, and I I think all that stuff adds value. Yeah, like that'll be adding value to your clients without you even realizing it. Like someone might be following you for two years, seeing all your little tips and tricks, and yeah, when they decide to build, they're reaching out because they they align with you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think it's good. Like we've we've actually had a a job recently that came through an energy assessor, which was cool, um, which is the first time that's happened, and I think that's that's awesome. I think energy assessors are great. I think they should be involved in pre-construction, and I think it's uh it's awesome that people or clients are actually reaching out to someone like that for this. It was just a small renovation, um, reaching out to an energy assessor before they start a renovation. So I think that's it's awesome. But it shows that there's you know, people are certainly concerned with health and you know, they want to live in better homes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um I'm gonna go. Back to the data and the numbers and things, mate, because it you um quite often in our Zoom calls for Live Light Bill, like I can see you're sitting back and you're very quiet, and then every now and then you'll you'll jump in with a question. But yeah, I feel like you're well, you're definitely very humble, but like you're really refining how your business operates based on the data you're getting, aren't you?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we've gone pretty uh pretty ham on the on the data side of things. Like I think um as the business has grown and we've taken on more jobs and more staff and stuff like that, we came into new problems that we didn't have before. Um, and so we kind of fixed our overheads, and then we had more jobs that came through, and then more workers, and then we had different problems. So I think data's huge. And so for us, we reached out to Katie from Profit First and got their team. Um, she has a team of bookkeepers who do tradey bookkeeping and um did a complete overhaul of our books, which was huge. We I wasn't confident with our like zero file to say that when I logged on there, that's exactly a snapshot as today. So I knew I wanted more confidence in that, and I wanted to be able to look at these numbers and like I'm really uh like I'm good with spreadsheets and I'm good with numbers and all that sort of stuff. I love it. And um for me it gave me more visibility. So yeah, we went pretty pretty turbo on it. I've got a bunch of spreadsheets that we track each month. So I've got, I don't know, maybe 20 or 25 KPIs that we track each month. And what what sort of things are they? Uh so revenue, gross profit, net profit, assets versus liabilities, um, number of employees, revenue, revenue per employee, all that sort of stuff. So then I can go through and see like I can pinpoint when I was most stressed and go back and say, all right, cool. Oh, we had like seven guys then and this happened, and you can see it. And and so you're making better decisions off the right things. Making educated decisions. Educated decisions, I guess that's what I'm trying to say. But not knowing everything, you kind of you just you're just guessing, like just saying, Oh, I'm just whinging about overheads because oh, I don't have enough money on overheads, but it's probably not that. Maybe it's employees, maybe it's the revenue, maybe it's something else.
SPEAKER_00:So Yeah, you can't if if you don't track your data and break it down and review it, you'd you're simply just making assumptions all the time.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:There's no um like it's all guesswork.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So how how do you think that's a well you've just mentioned stress, like a lot of people listening to this are probably thinking, like, I just don't have the time to to do all that, or I'm no good at spreadsheets and those types of things. But have you found that just knuckling down, putting the time into those things has actually given you more time and reduced all your stress? For sure.
SPEAKER_01:It's so having having all our zero file and everything up to date um and and proper, like the way it should be, that was the first step, and that was huge. Um then tracking the numbers in your project management system. Um like for me, like I don't I don't enter all of the data each month. Um, we've got a VA who who goes through and takes ticks a lot of them off, and then I come through and fill in the blanks, but um, it just becomes part of the routine. And I actually find comfort in a lot of that stuff, like the overhead calculator that we use in Live Life Build, um, the projected revenue, like they form part of this spreadsheet that I've got.
SPEAKER_00:And I like I love that you're using the assets liability one as well. Like that's well, that's huge.
SPEAKER_01:Like it's a it's it's more a business assets liability. So um, because to me, that's the one two port cards. That's the one, like that is the one. If you get that sitting right and sitting consistent, then you're you're doing good. So and you can see when it's tracking down, you're like, okay, cool, then you track it back up, and it just gives you clarity. Like, and I actually find comfort in that when I'm stressed about stuff, I can go through we actually project all of this forward as well. So um that same spreadsheet we use, I have a running tab for the next six months, and I can project forward the progress claims that we'll have in. Um, so I can plan the next three months, and it gives me clarity. I actually, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Does it help you um like with your family life as well, like um with confidence? Like I know I have a very much higher uh level of risk than what my wife Camille has, and like but having all those documents um like yourself and being able to look at them and clearly see, and again, forecast three months, six months, twelve months down the track, and it gives Camille a lot of confidence in decisions we're making and all that type of stuff. Like it I don't know, like everyone's very different. Like, I I like it because I make educated decisions based off it. She likes it because it just gives her confidence knowing that we're safe doing it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think for me, I it's it's definitely I definitely use it as a comfort thing. Like if I'm if I'm feeling stressed, rather than kind of just you know, hiding or doing whatever people do when they're stressed, like I'll just walk up, go and sit up in the office, go through the projected revenue calculator, go through my overhead, see where things are at, and soon enough, like you can get a gauge for it and see, okay, it's not that bad. It's just a spot. Because in like a building business, like you can go from month to month and you have terrible months, and then you go really good months. It's not there's there's lots of ebbs and flows with it. So um, it's easy to get caught in the now and say, Oh, I'm just this is the worst, it's the end of the world, and um but you've got to zoom out a little bit. I always say to my wife Laura, if in doubt, zoom out. You gotta um that's a good one and the name of this podcast.
SPEAKER_00:If in doubt, zoom out. That's a good one. Um, so let's talk about team for a bit, mate. That's another one that a lot of businesses struggle with. Like you've had a lot of growth. Like, how have you gone about building your team?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so we um initially I struggled to find an apprentice. Uh, I think I went through like five apprentices in the first four months. Um, like I was hiring on attitude, like I just wanted someone who was keen and um wanted to turn up to work. Anyway, I found someone, he stayed with us for a long time and obviously became a tradesman and did his time with us. Um and then from then it kind of just it was all very organic. I think it kind of just flowed on. Um we had a few that didn't make it through. Um and now we've got uh we actually had quite a big team last year. We had up, I think up to like I mean, big for us was like six at 1.7 with an overlap, and then now we've come down to four. But recently we've been really under the pump. I've had a guy away on holidays at the moment, and and so yeah, team's been tricky. Um but we've got a really good, really good team. Um, I've got a young apprentice at the moment who's just awesome. Really it's hard to find people with that good attitude who are keen, I think.
SPEAKER_00:But um Do you think having such clarity around the type of work you want to do and the and the the things you want to uh deliver for your client has helped attract the team members that you need?
SPEAKER_01:Uh possibly, yeah. I think we've like we've always had good we have always had good workflow and consistent um types of jobs, I guess. Um so I think that has probably helped, yeah, for sure. And we had a good initially it was I mean it was a really good um camaraderie. I mean it was very fun on site, and I think so people came, people came to work with us, and um, you know, things just gelled and it just kind of happened, but I do think I kind of flooched my way through that and we ended up with a good team.
SPEAKER_00:Seriously, you're the most humble bloke I've ever come across. Like it's like getting blood over a stain. Yeah, like you've you've put in a lot of work, mate, in the last couple of years. Like I've seen the changes and the growth that you've had.
SPEAKER_01:Like you are you are you on site a lot on your Yeah, look, I I think last year, last year I was off-site more because we were um I was sort of implementing a lot in the office and doing a lot of back-end work last year um in the office, getting estimates ready and all that sort of stuff. And so um this year with the team being reduced, um, I've been on site a lot more. And but I mean I love being on site for me. It's like I want to get the business to a point where I can be on site and not just coming in and kind of annoying my team. But uh, like for me, I'd I I enjoy being on the tools, I enjoy that flow state of just framing or concreting or all the big days that are really stressful.
SPEAKER_00:I love that stuff. I'm the same. It's unreal talking to tradies that are passionate about their job. Like they all talk about getting in that flow. Yeah, like it's there's something about having a good day on the tools and everything just snaps. Like it's very different to having a big day in the office.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like I enjoy, like I gotta be really structured in the office for me to have a good day. Otherwise, it's just it's not very productive. Like I need to structure it in a way where I'm getting stuff done. I feel like I'm getting things done. Um, otherwise I can get a bit lost. Whereas, yeah, on site it's just especially when there's lots happening, like those big days, lots of people, very stressful. Like, I don't know, it's just I guess my mind, I just like that.
SPEAKER_00:Um it's the um the problem solving, like just having to figure things out on the fly.
SPEAKER_01:I think problem solving for sure, yeah. Um, but I think the busyness as well, like that that quiet in the office where it's just me and I'm accountable to only myself. It's like it can be hard to sort of push through and get a lot done, but um, that's why I just got to be careful with the way you you structure it and do stuff in the middle of the day to try to get out and get back into it.
SPEAKER_00:So, how have you managed to get the time to step away and and be able to work on the business?
SPEAKER_01:That was tricky. Um, it was tricky initially. I actually struggled with that with the team. So, especially that first like carpenter I had doing his apprenticeship with him and working alongside him for so long. Then turning that into then me developing into a business owner was really tricky to manage. Um and I think for me, there's always that like as a builder, you've always got that camaraderie between your team and that, and it's not that you want to see it go, but at some point you need to step back and get in the office because it's just there's so much time that goes into the office that's like I still can't believe how much I have to do. Like, I got a VA who helps who is amazing, um, but still there's so much that goes into it. Um I I kind of sold it to my team in a way that like I need to be in here to do this, to get this stuff planned, so things are arriving on time. If I'm not in the office, if I'm helping you on site with things that's gonna push on site, then we're gonna fall behind anyway.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, the office is a massive, it's far bigger than what most people realise. Um, so how how do they like do you have regular communication with them and let them know what you're working on, what's coming up, and all that sort of stuff?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I try to be consistent with my office days, but to be honest, the last six months I haven't been. I did have a good flow last year, but um I try to sort of have certain days where I'm or plan it at least at the start of the week where I am in the office, um, which was Tuesdays. But um, yeah, so I I do try and like we have a weekly kickoff at the start of the week and just run them through my week of where we're gonna be at. So yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Those weekly site meetings or regular site meetings are really valuable, aren't they? Like, so your team's not fluffing around, they actually they've got some structure there week, you set intent for the week, you um have a plan there. So, like how does your team work when you're not there? Like, do you is there a lead carpenter, you've got a supervisor?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so we've got like a lead, basically a lead carpenter um on each job, and then um it was an apprentice and then another carpenter. So um, yeah, so it's just we have like obviously like the chats and stuff, and I generally at the moment I'll I'll go there in the morning and set them up for the day, and we'll go through what needs to be, you know, spoken about and documented, and um, they're in touch with Shannon, who's in the office as well. And so if they need anything, it's it's straight to them. And like I find I'm quicker, like if I'm in the office and going through things, I I can be quicker to get stuff back to them anyway. So it's um yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um can we talk about your VA for a minute? Because I I really feel like VA is add enormous value to construction businesses, and um it can be a little bit overwhelming, I guess, to get your head around how you can like how you can work with someone that's not sitting in your office.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah, I um I'd never really knew where to start with that, especially like having someone in the office. I was yeah, it was it was a big one for me because I'd never I'd never had like an in-house bookkeeper, I'd never had anyone sort of in an admin role at all. And so initially, initially I didn't know what it was supposed to be like. So the first VA that we had was a little bit unsuccessful. But initially I didn't know what to expect, so I kind of let it go for a bit. But um once I sort of refined the role and worked out what that role was, that was that was huge, but it has been a game changer. It's meant that I can implement the things that I should be doing, because otherwise you just don't have time. Like it's um, it can be really hard. So having someone who can um, you know, also finish the things that you start, because I think me as me as a person, my personality, like I'm very good at coming in and starting things and setting things up, and that's something I've learned. I think you learn a lot about yourself in business, and I'm very good at getting to flowing with things and setting things up, and here's how we're gonna do it, and coming up with ideas and stuff like that. When it comes into the weeds of just doing day-to-day things, I'm like, yeah, no, I just do it. Yeah, so what sort of what sort of tasks have you got your VA doing? So Shannon, our VA, is um, she's awesome. She runs, wears a lot of hats, she does, you know, timesheets, um project management. So, like, as as in managing the software that we use, um we were using an older software which linked into spreadsheets. So she was managing all the timesheets, the job photos, um, like file management, um, emails, calendar management, scheduling, like Instagram posts, all that sort of stuff. Um but to be honest, I think the main thing she does is she holds me accountable. Like having someone else there who uh like I know what I need to do, but I think in business, especially when I'm kind of on my own in the business, like as a like sole director, there's only yourself to hold you accountable. And so I think having having her has been like it's been really good, and me giving her free reign to pull me up on things where you know we need to be getting more done or I need to be more consistent with certain things. So it's been it's been really massive for us having a VA.
SPEAKER_00:So, mate, what's on the cards for Haiku? Like, you've definitely um well, actually, before we go there, let's let's talk about your awards. You um you needed a truck to get them home. Um, but actually, um more important than your awards was your little awards ceremony when you got home. Oh yeah. I thought that was absolutely brilliant. So tell us about that.
SPEAKER_01:Uh so I got home. I'm trying to think of the um the actual so yeah, I got home and um so I got a lovely wife at home, Laura, and three beautiful kids. Uh six, four, and two at that time. And um yeah, I got home and they were sort of stoked that I'd gotten awards, and so Laura had awarded them their own little awards when I got home for the best kid who was well behaved while I was away. And I think one of them was for doing a poo on the toilet. I think the other one was for I can't remember. There was there was three of them, but it was super cute to come home to, and they were all wide awake at whatever it was, 10 o'clock when we got home. So cool. I thought that was really, really cool.
SPEAKER_00:But yeah, talk us through your awards. Like you you like I said, you put in the effort and you got rewarded for it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I mean, going through that process with Live Life Bill was actually I found it. I think you can get, and I certainly can get bogged down in the gap of where you are, like the gap versus gain. So like seeing where you are and where you could be or where you want to be. And so for me, going through that process of um filling out those award entries and stuff like that for me was quite cathartic in that um I was giving myself room to sort of recognize the changes that I had made. Um so that was huge, just going through the process of applying, and I probably got enough out of it to stop there. But then to get the awards was was absolutely um was awesome. Like I don't not that I don't do well with it, but I just oh man, I was I was pretty like uh taken aback from the whole thing, to be honest.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Oh mate, you definitely deserved it. So what um for those that don't know, Live Life Bill does a um this year was our second year, so we we do annual awards nights. Um this year was definitely special. Like we hired Movie World, bloody loaded everyone on a bus and rocked up to Movie World, no one knew where we were going. So that was the the venue that Carrie organized was friggin' insane. Um but yeah, tell us about the actual awards.
SPEAKER_01:Like so I um I took out the Healthy Home Award, which for me was um was huge. That's somewhere where we've done a lot of work in our business, and it's something that my wife Laura is she she did the course with me and she's bringing her skill set into haiku and working out where she can come into the business. So um that was really good. Uh, we also took out the partnerships award, which was um you know, for building partnerships with clients and architects, which I guess when I look at it, we've we've done pretty good in that sense. Um and the systemization award got a highly commended for that one as well, which which I was very rapt with. Um but the standout member of the year for me was um yeah, I mean, that was pretty special. There's been so many builders in this community that are so inspirational to me. Um but to be recognized in a room with you know you guys and all of those builders was huge.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, you deserved it, mate. Like one thing uh Amelia and I have wanted to do with Live Life Build, like we we didn't want it to be just like the average awards that the industry has, and based on dollar value of homes and size of business and those types of things. And so the healthy home one is something that's very important for us. Um, we believe that people in the industry that are putting in the effort to deliver their clients healthier homes definitely deserve to um be represented. Um, the partnership one is something else, I think, that needs to like that's obviously why we've got an award for it. Like, it needs to be something that gets spoken about because ultimately, for you to have a successful business, like you you have to be good at collaboration, you've got to be building partnerships with clients, designers, architects, engineers, like there's so many people involved. Um, and yeah, systemization like it takes a lot of work to systemise a business. So yeah, you put in the effort, mate, and you um like you're obviously seeing the rewards from systemising your business, so mate, you deserve the awards.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, no, I was I was super rapped. I was to be honest, I couldn't sleep that night. I got back to the hotel room. I just like didn't want to go out drinking or anything, so I just went to bed, but I was just like I was pretty rattled by the whole thing. I just it was awesome. I really, yeah, really loved it. And I mean that that room, movie world, the whole scene was just epic. But that there's so many builders in that group who like I certainly look up to everyone in that group, and I've learned so much from everyone there, so it's just awesome.
SPEAKER_00:No, well it's well deserved, mates. But um, yeah, so where to now? What's what's your goals with haiku? You just like you you want to you're working on the healthy home stuff, just getting better at the same time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so we're I mean we're working on I'd like to bring more of a more of a service to our pack process with the healthy home. I think healthy homes is tricky, like it's a longer education process, um, and there's it's so in-depth, like how far you want to go down that um that road. So we're I'm working with Laura at the moment, we're trying to bring together something where we can use that in the PAC process to sort of educate our clients more. Um, but we're we've got to do that really early because there's there's a lot in that. Um and so for us it's it's refining that pack process and working more on that. We've done really good jobs for exactly the type of clients that we want to work for, and I'm really proud and happy that we've got such a good client base. Um for us now, it's moving into the type of jobs we want to do and focusing more on that healthy home side of things. So uh passive house as well, we'd love to, we'd love to get one of those under our hat. But um for us I think the healthy home thing for us is is huge. So um we're also looking at I want to systemise more of the on-site stuff at the moment. So we did a lot of work on our office side of things, um, and so bringing that to our team and bringing that systemization on site, um, that's what's next for the for the next 12 months for sure.
SPEAKER_00:How do you think you can systemise it on site? Like a lot of people think it's impossible.
SPEAKER_01:But we we both I think just I think just keeping it simple, like I I can go pretty overboard with everything. Like, and once I jump into something, I'm like, yeah, we'll do everything. And but I gotta kind of rein it back, and I think making it simple is is the key. So we have like we have the systems for our on-site team, but we're actually bringing just checklists in now. So just having them more as a checklist and following those systems and having the system as a visual. Um, but just using smaller checklists and having them front of mind where they where they need to be done and when they need to be done.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Um and how do you go about getting your team to follow those systems?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, look, like we've um the main ones we've used, basically like pre-plaster checklists for insulation, all that sort of stuff, waterproofing, um, framing, obviously, before the um insulation comes, but they're the key ones that we've that we've focused on because they're like probably the most important. Yeah. Um and from there, we're just gonna keep it simple and just gradually build it out because I don't want it to be this overwhelmed thing that kind of just gets forgotten about then. So I think keep it simple for now and slowly introduce it.
SPEAKER_00:It's gotta be simple, hasn't it? Like I know that's my motto in my business. Like, if it's if it's not simple, I won't use it and my team won't use it. Yeah, um, before we wrap it up, like for listeners out there listening to this, it might be in a tough spot, business maybe isn't going to plan, life might be a little bit hard. Like, what what advice could you give them?
SPEAKER_01:Uh I think I think for one to be be teachable, like be willing to learn from your mistakes, learn from other people, um not just sort of go it on your own like a bull out of gate and you know, think you know everything, because there's just there's so much that all of us don't know. Um and also not to shy away from the data and the hard work because I think it's very easy to hide in the shrubs and hide in the things that you think you should be doing when you know deep down where you should be focusing and fronting up to the issues that you're having. So yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um couple more. I keep thinking about like I should have made some more notes for yours, but um what do you do, mate, to get to chill out? Like you've you've already said you love work, you you work a hole at you get into it.
SPEAKER_01:But like what do you do to uh nature for me? Um like I'm huge on just getting in getting back into nature. Like I used to when I was young, did a lot of hiking, um, a lot of overnight hikes and stuff like that. For me, it just grounds us and brings us back going camping with our kids. Um we live sort of on the bush, so it's like next to the national parks and stuff. So even if it's just a walk with the family on in through the bush or a mountain bike ride, but we do a lot of camping and stuff for us, and that's for me, that's that's where I de-stress.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's important to get time for yourself, isn't it? Yeah. And with with kids and partner and stuff. But do you take time out for yourself? I do, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I think I do pretty good with that. Um I think I do pretty good with that. Like I'm I don't I don't keep super busy, like when I'm not at work, I'm with my family, and that's it. I don't I don't find the need to be going to all these different events and things to just just keep it simple and that's where I want to be, you know? Yeah, it's a happy place. Happy place. Come home and cuddle a chicken and everything's all good.
SPEAKER_00:Um mate, last one before we wrap it up. Um I want to ask you. So I'm I'm assuming your relationship with your old boy is really really good, but uh how's he go with seeing how you're doing things now in your business compared to what he's doing in his business?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I mean, I don't think we've really spoken about it, but I think he's I like I know he's proud of you know what I've done, but um uh yeah, he's still he's still doing his thing, he's still building. So um, yeah, I think it's good to to see, not like um, I guess I don't know to be to be short. Are you in the same area? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're in the same area, yeah. So is it um have we got a standard father and son relationship, you know? We keep it all very shallow.
SPEAKER_00:So, what's gonna happen the day you get a set of drones across your desk that your old man's pricing it as well?
SPEAKER_01:Like, we don't do tenders, mate.
SPEAKER_00:Very good, very good. No, mate, look, it's been a pleasure having you on. I um I really appreciate you taking the time out to come up here and and have a chat. Um, is there anything you want to get out before we wrap it up? Uh you've done well, mate. I've got a question.
SPEAKER_01:I've got a question. Yeah. Um, so with you with your businesses and everything you've got going on, how do you because I see the way you run everything, right? And the way you've got so much good time with your family as well and your girls, like how do you manage your time that well?
SPEAKER_00:Well, you mentioned uh a book before called The Gap and the Gain. Yeah. Um he's got another really good book called Who Not How. Yeah. Have you read that? I think I have, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I I've actually only listened to that book uh recently, but I've been doing that for 10 years. Yeah. Like I don't I used to get so worked up about trying to figure out the how that I would lose sleep. Oh and I like I wouldn't achieve what I wanted to achieve because I just get so lost in how am I gonna do it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um as soon as I changed it to who's gonna help me, yeah, like instead of how am I gonna do it, mate. My everything just started, and I and I'm I feel in the last two years that I've just grown and grown and grown that. So the first question I asked now with every single idea I have is like who's gonna help me? Um and so that's how I get my time. And one thing that I I really value my time, I think this is an another really important thing. I I really believe that true freedom, uh, and everyone's got different views on freedom, um, but you can't have freedom without wealth, because wealth is what's going to give you the freedom, and like they go hand in hand. And I really think once you once you truly value your time and you guard it like a temple, um everything else just start like the the wealth comes. Um so yeah, my thing is I'm always finding who can help me get reach my goals rather than me trying to bust my ass doing myself. And I talk I've talked about a lot, like across my businesses, I don't like Live Life Builds, you're an incredible team. Um, my building business is. Got an amazing team. Like between my supervisors and my carpenters and team on site, like most importantly, my amazing wife in the office. Um, Sharon, our accounts manager. We got we've got multiple VAs now. Yeah. Um, like Shay does recording of the podcast. We've got a really good producer now. Like, I yeah, I just I figure out who's gonna help me get to where it is, and I don't put a dollar value on it. Like that's another thing that really used to hold me back and and and take my time away from my family. Was I would get so like I would get a price for someone to help me, yeah. Like whatever, could like could have been whatever, lawyer, accountant, could have been whatever. And I'd go, fuck that. You're not paying that much money. Yeah, and then I would be the idiot up till all hours of the night or weekends trying to do that work. Yeah, and it back then I was so rather than being I was so focused on the dollar value instead of the time, and like I was wasting my time because that that took all my time away from my family. Yeah, um, yeah. So I I pay more money now for people to help me than I ever thought I would. Like best accountants, best lawyers, best solicitors, best team members. Um like yeah, and so you've got to weigh up you've got to weigh up the value. Like what you paying a cost to have that person help you, what value is that adding to you? And to me, the value is they're gonna get the job done probably better than I would because they know what they're doing. So I'm getting the value of them doing it in a timely manner, but I'm also getting the value of I get to spend time with people all enjoying what I want to do. Yeah. So yeah, who not how, mate. Love it, love it. Yeah, if I'd highly recommend that book for anyone that hasn't listened to it. It's it's a game changer. Yeah. Awesome. All good, thank you. Well, mate, appreciate you coming up. Um, look, guys, as usual, make sure you like, subscribe, comment. Um, let us know what you want us to talk about on the podcast. Let us know if you're out there and you want to be a guest on the podcast. If you haven't been to the DuanePears.com website yet and purchase the merchandise to get on board with the level up movement, make sure you do. And uh, we look forward to seeing you on the next podcast. Help us continue making this Australia's number one podcast, and uh we'll see you on the next one. All right, guys, I want to introduce you to a really exciting new product that I believe is going to play a massive role in Australia building healthier homes. As you all know, I am extremely passionate about healthy homes, and I'm doing a lot of research and putting a lot of time and effort into making sure my construction business is leading the way when it comes to building healthy homes here in Australia. We've teamed up with the guys from Highwood Timber. Highwood Timber are pioneering condensation management with their high flow ventilated LVL baton system. High flow battons give builders a stronger, straighter, and smarter way to create a ventilated cavity behind cladding and underneath roofs without compromising on structural performance. While tackling condensation to improve building health and ease of insulation, highwood battons are built to perform. When it comes to dealing with condensation and ventilation, high flow batttons will help you create continuous ventilated cavities behind all your cladding and underneath your roof sheeting. They reduce condensation risk and support healthier, longer lasting buildings. Highwood timber battons are also in alignment with the proposed NCC condensation management requirements as well as passive house ventilation requirements. Being an engineered LVL product, they are stronger, straighter, and more dimensionally stable than a solid material such as pine. This helps resist warping, twisting, and shrinkage, ensuring more consistent installs less prone to splitting than solid timber. Howwood timber batons are precisely manufactured, meaning that your installation will be faster and easier than other products on the market. The part that I like the most about these battons are they are H3 treated for long-term protection against decay and turmoiles. They use a waterborne H3 treatment which reduces reactivity with membranes and adhesives when compared to LOSP. These are the exact battens that you want to be using on your homes and your builds if you are considering building healthier homes or passive homes. Check them out.