What Australian Builders are Losing & Why the Old Ways of Building were Better

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In this episode of Level Up, Duane sits down with Rik Hill of RJ Hill Homes — a Live Life Build Elevate member who opens up about his path from a 1990s UK carpentry apprenticeship to running his own custom building business in Australia. Rik shares the old-school trade skills that are disappearing, the costly mistake that nearly ruined him during a franchise venture, and why durability and healthy home building should be at the center of the industry's future.

Timestamps:
0:00 – LEVEL UP
3:15 – Welcome back & introducing Rik Hill
4:09 – How Rik got into the building industry in the UK
18:37 – Hand-cutting roofs: "the PhD of carpentry"
32:44 – Power outage interrupts the episode (we kept rolling)
34:43 – What brought Rik to Australia
37:04 – Sponsor: Hywood Timber's Hyflo battens
39:10 – The costly mistake: jumping into a franchise
43:38 – Getting cranking again on his own
46:22 – Getting into the good stuff: building trade culture & loyalty
50:46 – Building healthier homes with Pro Clima
55:34 – What "Level Up" really means
56:21 – Outro

Transcript

Why Build Quality Matters

SPEAKER_02 0:00

That is is one of my biggest bugbears with the industry, to be honest. Um, just material quality. Shits me to tears, I'll be honest. It actually makes me angry. The quality of the shit that I see turn up just infuriates me. We've got these big players in the industry. They've pushed out a lot of these smaller local businesses, and they've dominated the industry, and now we're basically stuck with these.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

It really sort of frustrates me that it's gotten to building, but like everything we have now in life is designed to be thrown away. You've got volume homes that are built to have a 20, if they're lucky, 30-year lifespan. It's absolutely atrocious. Like it shouldn't be allowed, it's criminal. Yeah, durability is definitely something I'm passionate about. And it's awesome to see that you're getting on board and educating your client. There's nothing shits me more than trades.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Get paid, get out. You know, we all need to work together in this industry. We're all working to a common goal, which is to get the job at hand done to a high standard.

Safety Systems That Save Profit

SPEAKER_00 0:52

As a builder, one of my number one priorities is making sure that my entire team, including my contractors, go home safely every day to their families. I understand that workplace health and safety can sometimes feel like it's just an overwhelming thing that you just don't have the time, you don't have the money, you don't have the resources to put in place. That's why I recommend Hazard Co. Hazard Co is a digital platform that allows you to run more profitable projects and stay on top of your workplace health and safety requirements. You see, safety isn't a cost. Chaos will always send you an invoice. An unsafe job site is an unprofitable job site. Using digital platforms to drive safer, more profitable jobs is the way of the future. So get on board with Hazardco. Go to www.hazardco.com and help create a safer job site for your team.

Ordering Gear Without The Admin

SPEAKER_00 1:49

From timber frames and trusses to fasteners and sealants, Brett Online has got the lot. Real trade gear, no weekend warrior stuff. Your own profile page keeps everything neat and tidy. Account details, saved job list, invoices, and all your top-ordered products. No more digging through old paperwork or chasing around old invoices to try and see what you've ordered. It's all there, ready to go. As a builder that's run my own construction business for over 20 years, 17 of those years I've been using Brett's because Brett's are always putting their customers first to help us deliver more successful and profitable projects. By using their online portal, it means that myself or my supervisors can order gear at the drop of a hat. No more driving across town to place orders or having to pick up the phone and try and get through to the right rep. It's just done and dusted. On top of this, their next day delivery service is an absolute lifesaver when you under order on framing or one of your team forgets to add a zero. Brett's proudly service all of Southeast Queensland and the Wide Bay region right now and are gearing up to roll out across all capital cities very soon. The Brett's way is simple. Less admin, more building, more profitable projects. Brett's online, built for builders who don't have time to muck around. Building better and living better.

Meet Rick Hill And Elevate

SPEAKER_00 3:17

We're back in the studio this afternoon for another cracking episode. Today we have another Elevate member for you. So today we've got Rick Hill from RJ Hill Homes. Uh, he's been a member of Alevate for a bit over 10 months. But um look the reason I'm getting these elevate guys on is just to talk about how you can improve your life and your business uh when you put in the effort and the time. And I think it's really important because to get where we want to get in life, um, if what you're doing now isn't getting you where you want to be, at some point you've got to take or make the decision to um get involved with the right community and the right things that are going to get you where you want to go. So uh a big warm welcome to Rick. How are you, buddy? I'm good, mate. Thanks. It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me on. Oh mate, I'm looking forward to it. It's a good chat. It's um it's been awesome seeing you your grow and your improvement um over the last sort of 10 or 11 months. Um before we get into all that, but can you take us back to where you've come from?

Prefab Kit Homes And Efficiency

SPEAKER_00 4:09

How'd you get into the building industry and become a builder?

SPEAKER_02 4:11

Yeah, so uh the accent might be a bit of a giveaway, but I'm not a born and bred Aussie. Um so yeah, I was uh sort of grew up in the northwest of England, just a little town outside of Manchester called Leyland. Um got into the industry, uh, left school year 11 um back in the 90s, the mid-90s. Um and just sort of fell into carpentry. Local builder was looking for a uh a chippy and uh just started there, really.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

Yeah, they do things a bit differently over there, don't they?

SPEAKER_02 4:41

Yeah, yeah, there's a lot less carpentry. Um I was pretty lucky actually. I actually managed to there's very few people who do um timber frame stuff. Um and I was very lucky then that um the guy I worked for actually had experience doing uh a lot of these imported Swedish buildings. So they were basically a kit. Um and we used to go around doing those. That's um some of the first jobs I started on um was assembling these um these kit homes, and they were they were pretty good. Um they were all they all came triple glazed or all pre-glazed, windows installed, everything.

SPEAKER_04 5:16

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Um and we'd just stand, we'd literally just we'd rock up there'd be a slab there, um, bottom plate was down, and we'd just go around with a dumpy and buzz the buzz the bottom plate and uh stand up the walls and usually double story things and so the walls were all lined, like we might go a bit off topic here, because this is something I'm I'm really interested at the moment because I think I feel like if we if Australia doesn't get on board with more pre-fab, um we're we're definitely gonna get left behind with places like Europe and Sweden and America and those types of things, but it's more to do with just the efficiency. Yeah, like the labour the on-site labour is costing so much. So did they turn up lined inside, outside, windows installed?

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Windows installed, so basically it was a 140 frame um packed with insulation. They had a uh it was I don't know if you've you've heard of creosote? They call it creosote. I don't know if people really use it these days. Um so they had this, it was sort of like a low density type of MDF on the outside, and it was just had this this creosote, I think they called it creosote board or something. Um that was on the outside, inch heaps of insulation in windows in, um OSB lined on the inside, and battened for plaster as well. The one problem they did have, it was probably they were probably the equivalent or cl as close as you would have got to passive house back then, I would say. Um very efficient buildings, um, but the one drawback they had, um they used to line it with what we called Visqueen, which was just builders' plastic, which was an absolute recipe for disaster, as we know now, capillary effect and that stuff. We actually did go back to some jobs um doing rectification. I remember there was one where the plumber had stuffed up they were using the black plastic as it wasn't black, it was clear, but it was the same principle, the same gauge, sort of thin gauge uh plastic as a vapor barrier as as the vapour barrier, yeah. And it was on the inside. Yeah. So um we'd had a problem with uh a plumber who'd um stuffed up and uh it just it was a six month repair. Um the uh the water just carried through the whole bloody house and yeah, it was a case of chopping half of it to bits and so were they did you have to crane them into position that they were? Yeah, so they basically just turned up on a trailer, big curtain sided semi. Um and they had a they were really good. They had a uh a threaded eye, you just literally screwed it in, pulled the curtain back on the top of the trailer, crane them straight off into they were all numbered straight up. You know, in five days we did uh 50 odd square, double story, roof trusses on, glazed, ready for brickwork.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Yeah, it's uh it's so it's so the way to go. I'm I'm really keen to um actually keen to get into that space. I think it's I think it's needed. I think it's the way forward, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um well yeah, we'll talk more off because we could talk about that all afternoon. Like I'm curious where how the services and things went in those um like within the walls, like with electricity, plumbing pipe work, like yeah, so they they did just run them in between so it was battened, like I say, on the inside.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

Uh it escapes me now, but it was probably just 25mm rough sawn timber. This is 30 years ago, so yeah. The old memory's gotta serve me right here. But um, yeah, they just ran so they used to use copper back then. Um they just run the copper in the walls. Um and they would have they'd have like service voids and stuff like that in there for anything bigger.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

So how'd you where'd you go after that, mate?

SPEAKER_02 8:43

What um yeah, so basically um had a bit of a you know what it was like back then, Dwayne. Um it was tough, you know, bosses weren't um as accommodating as they are these days. Um so the old boss was um a bit of a hard ass. Um he it was tough, you know.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

I I um what sort of thing what sort of things were you dealing with then? Because I oh so just to give some of the younger people an idea of how things have changed.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

I've got a I've been thinking about this actually, and um one of the first things that springs to mind I'll never forget, like we had to do everything and 90% of it was just doing shit work. It was basically the apprentice does it. So we did a we did a lot of rennals and old stuff, as you would expect in the UK, there's a lot of old buildings. Um and I was in the in the the uh yard, the boss says, Oh, you know, we've got some bricks for you to clean. A truckload of bricks turns up, tips this, and it's like bloody Mount Killer Manjaro in the in the yard there. Um so I'm just there with a brick hammer cleaning them off. I remember it was a baptism of fire, really, because this is early days of my apprenticeship, you know, fresh out of school. Um and yeah, bricks falling down, blacking my thumbnail within the first few hours with a brick falling on it, and yeah, cleaning them up. I reckon it took me a couple of days and basically stacking them on pallets, bossed moving with a fork truck. So I thought, yeah, great, got through it, and then another truck rucks up the same amount again, and uh yeah, cleaning these old Accrington brick we call them. They're just like a sort of look like what your equivalent would be, like your recycled red you've got over here, they're very well known, solid clay brick, and uh they're a good quality brick, so we cleaned them all up. Um there's that insulating attics, you know, in the middle of summer, putting you know 270 mil of insulation in an attic, no mask, you know, just dealing with the heat. I know it's the UK and it's not quite as hot as it is here, but when you've still got you know maybe 20 odd degrees on the roof and you're you know working in a hot attic, it's um not the most comfortable of uh situations to be in. Uh yeah, it was it was tough, you know, like you you just you just had to deal with the shit. That's the way it was, you know. You could be on the barrow all day, on the shovel, whatever it had to be done, had to be

UK Apprenticeship Reality Check

SPEAKER_02 11:01

done.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

I'm keen to do a lot more um travelling around the world and and go and visit construction sites and talk to builders and carpenters overseas. Because you like in Australia, we do things a very set way.

SPEAKER_04 11:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Uh with our stick framing and roof trusses and the way we do external claddings and safites, internal fit-outs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but like in Europe, I I spent a little bit, I was over there in my mid-20s, uh, spent a little bit of time. Like I can't help myself. If I go somewhere and there's a job site, I'm always pucking my head over the fence and trying to have a chat to somebody. There seems to be like other parts of the world seem to have a lot more detail than what we have. Like, can you talk about that a little bit?

SPEAKER_02 11:38

Yeah, so a lot of the older buildings, um, like some of them, like the old, like, for example, my local pub was built in 1616. You know, so we're talking the age of these, it's older than Australia as we know it today, you know. Um so yeah, they they love things, these little details, you know, key even a relatively basic terraced house back in, you know, 100 and odd year old, you know, you'd have nice keystones, nice headstones, head, you know, above the door, curved with some nice intricate masonry there, you know. Um cornices would be really detailed. Um you know, you'd get all this cobbling detail on your cornices, nice rolls. And they were done in situ. You know, they did they would literally have a shaped um tool, and they would and and I tell you hard as all buggery to get off. Like doing demos, trying to knock this cornice off, and um it was just it was trowed in and they had different profile trowels and uh incredible amount of it's artistry, really.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

Yeah, um even the carbonry work about like you you see like their their door frames and their arch trades and skirtings and things like there's there seems to be a lot more detail than what we've we've sort of ever had over here. You don't see a lot of it, and like safite linings and things, like a lot of more exposed rafters and detailed timber work in underneath the safet or as a safet lining. So you would have got to do some of that type of work, I guess, as a as a chip out there.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

A lot of it on the older stuff. Like I was fortunate in a way that I was pretty lucky to get the opportunity to work on a lot of older buildings. Obviously, times have changed now, we're similar in terms of methodology, you know, it's basic MDF skirts and jams, and you know, obviously it's you know that's unfortunately that's the way the world's gone, hasn't it? But yeah, I had a lot of opportunity to work on a lot of the old stuff. Um and yeah, a lot more detail in it. And I and I I knew a lot of people as well who did specialist mouldings and stuff like that, so um it was just more more geared much more towards that over there.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

So when did you finish your time over there? Or yeah, finished my apprenticeship over there. Um I actually ended up giving it the flick um going back to sort of um it being a different time. I uh got the missus up the duff. Uh uh I was only I was we were young, you know, I was 17. Um bless her, Sarah. Still with her? Yep, still still together, four kids grown up, but most of half of them are grown up and still got two at home. So uh yeah. Uh this was back in ninety seven, so yeah, and and and it was just got a bit to the point where um the boss was a very difficult man to deal with without trying to bag the guy, it was a different time then, you know. Um and yeah, I was I was basically just to uh sort of uh maybe point out the differences of the way things were then, I was um glazing a window with a piece of double glazing, little square, you know, these bay windows um that we have over there, and it was only a small double glazed piece of glass and uh no puzzlods then, it was just you know, nail it by hand with a panel pin and I'm nailing it and hit a knot, bang, blew the glass out, and the boss was there, and he just like I'd I'd get a spray every day, that's just the way it was, you know. But then he starts with uh calling me a wanker and verbal abuse, really, which he just couldn't get away with today. And I was copying it all the time and look fair fair play. I took it, I dealt with it, but then the girlfriend's pregnant, and I'm thinking, you know, I've got a grow up area, I can't put up with this sort of stuff, you know. I've got to put my big boy pants on, and so yeah, I um basically told him to jam it and uh went on elsewhere. A friend of mine, his boss actually was building this huge joint and it was subsiding. Um so I basically just saw the rest of my time out working for this guy with a really good shippy. Um yeah, uh so then yeah, finished my apprenticeship there. Um had a bit of a hiatus, ended up just getting a job in a factory just for a short time because I was fresh out of my time and I was looking to get a mortgage, obviously young family then.

Roof Craft And Confidence Clicking

SPEAKER_02 15:45

So did a short term working in the uh in the factory and uh then there was a building boom and sort of back in the 90s, you'll remember it was like when we were sort of apprentices, it was everyone was moving into IT. And then as to as I'm getting towards the end of my apprenticeship, but they say they start talking about trade shortages, you know, we've not got any any tradesmen. So then the prices went through the roof. So I'm working in this shitty factory job and suddenly the prices are great, you know. You're earning sort of a thousand plus pounds a week, which back in sort of 99, 2000 was you know, good money, very good money. So yeah, just jump back into it. And I think I got to an age as well where sometimes it just clicks, you know. Like I didn't have the greatest amount of confidence in myself and it and it just clicked. So um yeah, then I just moved into sort of site carpentry, just yeah, just working for big builders. It's it's much led by big big builders in the UK now, they're more developers than builders really. Um just doing site works, it was just head down, arse up, everything was on a on a purchase order. And um just yeah, just just working away and uh yeah, and then a couple of years down the track, then I sort of went out on my own and still subcontracting a little bit, but then started doing attic conversions.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

Um did quite a few attic conversions and uh small extensions and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

So when you say attic conversion, is that like pulling a roof off, putting another level on, or or just converting that space?

SPEAKER_02 17:13

Converting the actual space, maybe put a dormer on. Um if it had a hip roof, you might undo the hip and chuck a bit of steel in and I I know what a dormer is.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Uh we my parents built a house that had dormants all over it. But um explain what a dormer is, mate, because I bet there's a lot of chippies that listen and don't know.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Um you basic basically a window, and it would a typical classic dormer would be a a vertical window coming out, and it would have cheeks on the side, obviously, triangles, and then you'd have a a gable on the front, if that makes sense. If I've explained that well. Yeah, no, you did it. You did explain it very well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

Haven't had cheeks for a while. Yeah. I I and I think that's like it's something I'm very grateful for. Like, I got to work with a boss that we did that type of work. Like, we did some high-end homes that that had dormer windows and stuff in them, and you learn how to hand cut in your roof rafters and pitch all your valleys and all your saddle trusses and all those types of things. But um a lot of that stuff, like that type of work, especially here in Australia now, like it's just non-existent.

SPEAKER_02 18:15

No, all trusses. It's I was lucky. I mean, they were sort of dying out when I was coming up. So um I was really lucky that the first boss I his brother actually taught me really, um, old Jim. He was he was in his late fifties then and he was old, old school. Um, and he could he he sort of showed me the basics of hand cutting a roof, and it was that's an art in itself, really. They call it the PhD of carpentry, don't they? Which I agree with, you know. It's definitely there's a lot to it to be a really good roof carpenter.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

Like that's one of those things, mate, like you hear people talking about like or questioning what trades and what builders charge, but like that in itself, like that's that's experience and that skill that is worth money. Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

I mean, who who would you get today? You can't really just I mean, you you're lucky to find decent tradesmen as it is. Yeah, to throw up a standard frame. To throw up a standard frame. Yeah. So to actually get somebody who can hand cut a roof, good luck.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Yeah. Actually, I want to go back a little bit, because you um you actually mentioned something before which I hadn't heard. I assume it's some sort of punch, but you were talking about glazing that window and hitting the nail and you hit a hit a knot. What were you hitting it in with?

SPEAKER_02 19:27

Uh so we had we used to have like a it was like a pre-loaded punch type thing. Yeah. And and you may have to have a few goals at it, but you load your pin in spring load, bang, yeah, and have a couple of dips at it, and sometimes uh panel pin. Panel pin, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

No, we did um Actually I I they may have been called that. Like we did have um we did have things that look like that. They they almost look like those old school uh pens that were see-through. Yeah, yeah, and down the bottom. So by pin you mean a little bullet head nail basically. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very fine. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Alright. No, because yeah, I heard you say that. I was like, oh, what's that?

SPEAKER_02 20:04

But yeah, no, we did that. Showing our age now, Dwayne, with all these things. Uh I remember starting out and uh we didn't even have cordlesses, we're only just really a thing. We had the old Yankee screwdrivers if you remember them. I don't know if you remember the Yankees.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

Yeah, yeah. All that stuff, like I again talking about value and like people questioning what people charge, like we've been taught that, and people that haven't been taught that, they they don't have those skills, they don't have that knowledge. So we we should be able to charge more for that type of work. Even um like we see it now, like on a on all of our we do the odd um renovation of a Queenslander or something where it's got old windows, so we like my supervisor will measure the glass up and get the glass cut, and we'll um quite often like we're not using timber beads, occasionally we are, a lot of time we're putting them in, and yeah. Uh we've had carpenters that work worked for us, and they're like, What are you what are you doing? I've never done that before. Like, and you like we've got like they call themselves carpenters, and we've got to teach them what to do. Um, I think it's really important, and I'd I really like one of my emphases at the moment is really getting my trades on site when those things come up to spend the time with the apprentices. Like, don't just rush them through it, don't just um think that you've got to get the job done. Like, actually spend the time with them, explain to them the process, like what happens when this comes up, how we measure the glass, leave your little gap around the outside so there's no pressure on the glass, like how to silicon it in, how to place the glass, do it all safely, um, set it like do your putting, like even putting a window in, like I'm sure you've done an art form.

SPEAKER_02 21:41

I'm I mean I couldn't do it, but Jim, the old boy I used to work with, he'd have a piece of putty in each hand, roll put a link seed all in his hand, he'd have one in each hand and he'd glaze two sides at once and then do the horizontal. Holy shit, yeah. And then just quick scrape off with a with a knife and done.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

Yeah, I've never never got it that down to that sort of art. But um yeah, even just the same, like you mentioned the linseed oil. Like if you don't get the putty consistency right and you and you get the linseed oil in it, like the putty's just gonna dry out and be

Passing On Skills Before They Vanish

SPEAKER_00 22:09

no good. Like there's all these little things that um just add more value to our our craftsmanship than we do.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

And it you've just got to be interested, you know, pay a bit of attention to things and and you know just have that bit of interest, you know. It's I used to like I used to love all those little things, you know, learning new new little techniques and and you're still learning now, now it's more on the on the business side of things, but yeah um certainly on the technical side of things and the skill side of things, it's like I rate carpentry is probably I used to have I talked to a lot of my mates back in the UK and we used to have this saying about um like the balance of skills. So you've got sort of some that are sort of say something like plastering, say you're gonna be more 80% skill, 20% knowledge. Then you've got things like electrician, you're probably more 90% knowledge, 10% skill.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Cool, they won't like that.

SPEAKER_02 23:02

And they won't like that. But just get a broomboys and clean up after yourself pick up your tails.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Uh mate, Sparky is one of the uh cleanest trades on the site, and yet they won't sweep up the mess they make.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

So some skills are more are more balanced towards skill over knowledge, and I would say carpentry is probably one of the best balances of of of skill to knowledge. Yeah, for sure. In my opinion. You know, obviously we've got to bridge all the trades as well. We generally get to work across all with all the trades. Yeah. Um and I think we certainly need to get a lot more young young blokes interested in it because um we're gonna it's gonna be interesting times ahead, I think, with uh with the sort of skills we're gonna have. Oh 100%, mate.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

And even just like I know we're I'm diving into the window situation a little bit, but like obviously the whole industry is very much banging on about the cost of building um and just it's continuing to get higher and higher. But like you think about a doing a renovation or a refurb on an older type home with timber windows, it's far more economical for a for the builder on site to get his carpenters to replace a few bits of glass here and there and redo a bit of putty on the windows and fix up the double hungs and redo readjust the weights in the windows than it is to come in and take all those windows out and buy new windows. But that's the way that it's going. Like more and more we're we're we're losing the the builders and the and the trades with the skills to be able to make those whether it's fix-ups or make those adjustments, so it's just one of those situations where I'll pull it out, throw it on the bin, we'll just get a new one.

SPEAKER_02 24:39

I think people have been conditioned over the years into just throw it out, get a new one. That's that's been the attitude for quite a time now, you know.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

I um back in my hometown there was a an old guy, Walter Berry, they owned a huge um uh hardware um and yard. It was built on 40 acres, massively impressive. I think it was the biggest one in Europe.

SPEAKER_04 24:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:59

Um an old Walter had this house, they had another little wood yard which was where the joinery shop is, and you could get anything from there. You could just buy off-the-shelf window section, make up your own windows, whatever. An old Walter there, he's uh not no longer with us, but um he had his old house on the corner. And the old bloke, he just it was forever. My mate used to paint his house for him every every few years, and uh he'd just be constantly going round with his old stained glass in his windows, and uh he'd be just chopping sections of window out and replacing them. Yeah. And uh, yeah, it's uh just not the way these days, is it? Unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

It's no, it's definitely not. And even when we talk about internal fit outs with all your your door frames, arch trades and skirtings and stuff, like even all that stuff's just getting less and less detail. Like there's no um like for a while there through my time, like every job we did, um, because we did do a fair bit of work on Queensland, is like you had your pitcher rails, your belt rails, you had your your stop blocks for your skirting and your arch trade sat on top of them and all those just those detailed bits, whereas now it's pretty much just arch trade and skirting.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Yeah, and I think there's a few there's a few little things that could separate a lot of the young blokes these days, making them a much better carpenter, is just understanding those few little details and being able to do those little things, even if you're spending a bit of time in your own on your own, just stuffing around, playing around with plinth blocks on the s on the arcs and you know, doing some of the playing around with some of these details, it's gonna set you apart from from other blokes.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Yeah, and a lot of them are like I'm we're finding definitely now, like a lot of the materials are actually not giving well, they don't give us the opportunity to teach our trades, and the the cheats aren't the trades or the apprentices aren't getting the opportunity. Like um you mentioned it quickly before with the MDF stuff. Like, have a think about like all the like during my time everything was finger-jointed pine or uh all maranti. Um and so everything like we machined a lot, we had to we arist the edge of everything. Like every every carpenter on site had a little planer in their in their nail bag. I've still got mine, I've still got my nail bucket on with a block plane in it. Yeah, I've still got mine as well. And I actually I was trying to um like when we get new apprentices on, we set them up with just the basic hand tools and stuff, and I've found the last two apprentices we've had, it's actually very hard to get a very a good quality block planer. Right. They're just not selling those little tiny planers as much as they used to do.

SPEAKER_02 27:27

I think it's probably a bit of a Facebook marketplace job and see if you can find one from an antique store.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Yeah, well mate, the old Stanley ones as as always, they were they were pretty good quality, but like nowadays most of the internal fit out material is MDF or it and it's got that really thick shit primer coating on it. And you try an Arasat and it all just chips off and it does, it looks looks crap. It's hard, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

Yeah, like it's it's really yeah,

Throwaway Building And Trade Splits

SPEAKER_02 27:53

I don't know. That is is one of my biggest bugbears with the industry, to be honest. Yeah, um, just material quality. Yeah, it shits me to tears, I'll be honest. It's um it actually makes me angry. I'm not I'm not an angry type of a bloke, but but the quality of the shit that I see turn up, it just infuriates me because I feel like um we've got these big players in the industry, they've pushed out a lot of these smaller sort of mum and dad type businesses or local businesses, and they've dominated the industry and and now we're basically stuck with these multinationals, a lot of them.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

Yeah, and um they're just providing us with shit. It is, and I agree a hundred percent, mate. And that like even just talking about the the products we're talking about. Like, I remember even in my early days running my building business, like there was a lot of um little family sawmills, like you could go and purchase, or if you or if you couldn't find it, they would run it and match it to suit a profile that you had in the job you're doing. Yeah, but it again they're few and far between now. Like these days, it's just buying all the five, four lengths off the shelf, and yeah. Um yeah, it's it's not a it's not well, I don't know. Look, personally, I don't think it's the right way to go, but I guess for younger people coming through, they don't know any different.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

No, and it's uh it's hard to think really. Like you you don't really understand, do you? Because we're obviously probably a different generation, you know, to a lot of these young uns now. Well, we are, um, but uh it's something they'll have never known.

SPEAKER_00 29:21

Yeah. Like one of my um pet hates is I I really don't like how they're pushing the industry towards uh like breaking down the trades further and further and further. Like as carpenters, especially, like carpenters pretty much like well let's face it, carpenters are pretty much builders, like they spend the most time on the job, they help coordinate other things. You carpenters always do more than carpentry, but um like plasterers for example, like you've instead of getting it's very rare now to see a a plastering company come in that hangs the sheets, stops it, sets it, does the cornice, does the sanding, cleans up and goes to the next job. Yep, hangers are here, then the stoppers are here.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

Yeah, yeah, then another little crew comes and does the cornice if there's cornice in it.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

Yeah, and then like you see like carbonry, I know a lot a lot of the volume building sites now, like there's a there's a crew that comes in, does all the framing, there's a crew that comes in that does lock up, there's a crew that comes in that does cladding and fit out.

SPEAKER_02 30:20

Yeah, I think a lot of that started when um prefab frames came in. I mean, not to bag um I I don't want to feel like I don't want to sound like I'm being negative towards a lot of these young up and comers because it is a different world. Well anyway, they don't know what they don't know, but they don't that you're exactly right. And um, you know, you'd get kids at fresh out of their apprenticeship and they'd only done prefab frames, they couldn't even stick frame. And I I you'd know you'd see heaps of adverts uh you know, framing carpters need must be able to stick frame, and it's framing carpentery, like you should be able to stick frame. You should you shouldn't that shouldn't be a prerequisite, like of you must be able to use like you're a framing carpenter, you need to be able to frame, but you know that this is this is the world we're in.

Timing Matters When Careers Stall

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Yeah, so mate, to go back, um something or something else I want to go back to because you mentioned that you had a little bit of hiatus from from the trade, yeah, and then you went back and it and it clicked. Yeah, I I feel like that's very important because again, there's a lot of people out there that feel like they're they're lost, like the the world's telling them you you've got to know what you're doing, like what's like make it work. But it depends on the timing in your life and where you're at. Sometimes things just aren't clicking, but it doesn't mean you um it doesn't have to mean that you're not passionate about it or that it's not the thing for you, it's just not that right time. Yep, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

Um so when I was a kid, I was always interested in cars, you know. I wanted to I sort of wanted to be a mechanic, I think, originally. Um and then yeah, getting into carpentry, it was like I said, it was it was a tough time. The boss would come in and give you he he was known to be fast, the boss. He was a very fast carpenter, he would smash it out. His old saying was uh tomorrow's not good enough, yesterday we'll do. That was his saying. I'd never forget that saying, old Tony. And um so he'd come in, explain everything at a million miles an hour, off he'd go, and then you'd be like, Right, what what does he want me to do? I've got it's just uh blurted out a million and one things at you know, million miles an hour. Um and then he'd come back and give you a spray when you hadn't done what he'd asked. So I think it probably knocked my confidence a little bit, um, and probably just needed that level of maturity.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

So it just all right guys, sorry about that. So we just actually experienced a blackout. Um Shay's worked his magic, and we've got things operating on battery power at the moment, so not sure what's going on with the power, but anyway, we're back into it. So back over to Rick. We're just in the middle of talking about um someone was hitting you up to about stairs, building a set of stairs.

SPEAKER_02 33:00

Yeah, so back to it. Yeah, I was working in a factory, um, just a little bit of a hiatus in the uh between uh sort of finishing my apprenticeship and and getting out there and working again. And um yeah, so it was just a guy at work, he was just talking, uh asking me about how to put a staircase in. Um and it was like that point when I when I sort of thought, what am I doing? You know, working in a factory. It served its purpose for the time, it meant I could get a salary and get a m a mortgage. But um, I just thought, what am I doing? I need to be getting out there. Like it's I think it sort of gets in your blood, doesn't it? You know, you yeah and and you can't waste all that time you've put in and effort to learn things, but it was it was just a maturity thing, I think, of getting to that that point where things just clicked, and I think your your confidence and everything sort of you get to a certain age, you just everything comes together. Yeah, and that was that.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

So, yeah, that was it. It's an important message to talk about, especially for younger people that might be doing an apprenticeship or having a hard time and thinking I I I personally think I've seen a lot of young people leave the industry because they've thought it's not right for them, and it simply just could have been not the right timing. So um I think that's awesome that you've shared that story. But uh look for people that are watching this podcast, um, we haven't turned it into the Halloween edition, but um we've just had to make some adjustments because of the power outage. But we've got the curtains open, got the door open, so now you can hear all the birds and the dogs and stuff outside. And uh Rick and I are sitting here with a uh large Milwaukee work light in the middle of us. But anyway, we're getting it done. Yeah, McGivre. McGuire in it, mate. Um a lot of people listening to this probably wouldn't even remember all the time. No, they probably won't, will it? That's showing to the solution for everything. Speed us up a little bit. So you obviously became a builder over there, and then um what made you want to move over to Aircraft?

SPEAKER_02 34:44

Yeah,

Moving To Australia And Licensing

SPEAKER_02 34:45

so I first came over in 04. Uh we've got family here just around Melbourne. Um, so came over in 04 and just fell in love with the life, you know. It's um and the building aspect I I would get to do the opportunity to do things that I wouldn't have got to do back in the UK. Like I like I said earlier, I was lucky that I I had the opportunity to get a bit of timber framing experience and stuff, um, but there was very little of that. So um getting the opportunity to frame houses um and just you know not be restricted by the weather as well, you know. Back there you're working outside, you you know, we'd have generators going working with power tools in the pouring rain and put weatherproof pants on and just dealing in the dark, but yeah, in the dark, yeah, dark at 4 30, yeah. And um you'd still be working away. And if it wasn't that it was freezing cold, and you'd you know, so yeah, we just we just fell in love with the lifestyle. We um we came and stayed with some family, um and then uh yeah, we we sort of went for a drive. Uh we went down to Barnheads just off the coast uh outside Geelong there, just on the Bellerine, and um just fell in love with the place and thought, you know what, we'll give this a red hot crack. And yeah, so we went home. Um Sarah fell pregnant again, um, which was the intention. She said, look, I want to stay home, have another child, get married. Um, so that's what she did. Uh that's what we did, I should say. Um, and then once we'd done that, we were uh we were good to go and we made the move. And yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

Yeah, so how long have you been building in Australia for?

SPEAKER_02 36:21

Building as as a registered builder, it'll be 11 years now. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

And then you um like how did you get started over here? Because that's like didn't doesn't really matter, I guess, that you've been building over there, like it's a fresh start.

SPEAKER_02 36:35

It is a fresh start, and there's a lot of there's a lot of differences, especially with compliance and rigs and stuff like that. Um so it was just I I had to get experience because you know obviously as you'll know when you apply for your license, you've you've got to have a lot of sort of either supervision experience and references from builders, so it was just a case of just you know getting stuck into work, keep working away for a few years, and um and then yeah, just just add a crack and got it done. Got it

Ventilated Battens For Healthier Homes

SPEAKER_02 37:03

done, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

Alright, guys, I want to introduce you to a really exciting new product that I believe is going to play a massive role in Australia building healthier homes. As you all know, I am extremely passionate about healthy homes and I'm doing a lot of research and putting a lot of time and effort into making sure my construction business is leading the way when it comes to building healthy homes here in Australia. We've teamed up with the guys from Highwood Timber. Highwood Timber are pioneering condensation management with their high flow ventilated LVL baton system. High flow battons give builders a stronger, straighter, and smarter way to create a ventilated cavity behind cladding and underneath roofs without compromising on structural performance. While tackling condensation to improve building health and ease of insulation, highwood battons are built to perform. When it comes to dealing with condensation and ventilation, high flow battons will help you create continuous ventilated cavities behind all your cladding and underneath your roof sheeting. They reduce condensation risk and support healthier, longer lasting buildings. Highwood timber battons are also in alignment with the proposed NCC condensation management requirements as well as passive house ventilation requirements. Being an engineered LVL product, they are stronger, straighter, and more dimensionally stable than a solid material such as pine. This helps resist warping, twisting, and shrinkage, ensuring more consistent installs less prone to splitting than solid timber. Howwood timber battons are precisely manufactured, meaning that your installation will be faster and easier than other products on the market. The part that I like the most about these battons are they are H3 treated for long-term protection against decay and turmoiles. They use a waterborne H3 treatment which reduces reactivity with membranes and adhesives when compared to LOSP. These are the exact battens that you want to be using on your homes and your builds if you are considering building healthier homes or passive homes. Check 'em out. Highwood Timber Products.

The Franchise Decision That Nearly Broke

SPEAKER_00 39:10

And then you went for you had a little stint with um having a crack at a franchise.

SPEAKER_02 39:14

Yeah, yeah. Um not the best experience.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

Um what what made you go that way?

SPEAKER_02 39:20

To be honest, it was just a mistake. Um I think it was it was it was a big lesson in life for me. Um because it was sort of just during COVID this opportunity came in and there was a few guys in the area that they were very long term, they'd been in the franchise this particular franchise for quite a while, and um yeah, soon discovered it really wasn't the model for me. Like it was it just I'm a custom home builder, a smaller builder. And um, what what drew you to that? Like, didn't you? I got spooked. I'll be honest, it was it was it was getting spooked during COVID. And I've always had a rule or I've tried to set a rule to myself in life to never make decisions based on fear. But I did. I broke my rule. Um I just got spooked. I think there was a very negative time for the industry, um, and I thought that it would be give me an opportunity to have a bit of an edge, maybe take a bit of the legwork out of marketing, yeah, um, and and sort of drive in the business. The idea was to maybe just do the minimum period in there, build up the business and and sort of get out. Um but yeah, unfortunately things didn't work out. Um I ended up getting out of the franchise early. Um and it was a bit of a dark time, you know. It was um very challenging on myself and my wife and my whole family, um because it pretty much nearly ruined me. Yeah. Um mentally, financially. Both. Both, yeah. Um so yeah, it was it was it was a difficult time. Um again, I just made this decision. I thought it would have been the right thing to do, it wasn't, but you learn, you know, um learning being a skilled tradesman's one thing and learning the art of business is another. Um so I ended up getting out um through with a lot of wrangling and back and forth um because it just wasn't working. It like I say, it's um it it drove me to the point of near complete ruin. Yeah. Um and uh the pressure it puts I mean, you'll know this, Duane, you've been through the ringer yourself through business.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

Yeah, I've never I've never to be honest, I've I've never had much to do or anything to do with um franchise type setup, so that's all that's definitely all new to me. But I'd imagine they they saw they lock you up pretty tight when you're gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 41:39

Yeah, they do lock you up pretty tight, and um and it gets to the point where you're sort of at a point where your ball's deep and you don't know what to do because they're you they've got you, you know, and and it'll take a lot of um legal wrangling and resources that a small builder doesn't have to to free himself up from if it got to that point. So um luckily we came to an agreement. Um I probably can't talk too much. Yeah, that's right about the intricacies as much as I would like to. Um but yeah, it was a big learning curve for me. That it was um an interesting time and um yeah, definitely put us all through a lot. And I've got to really um tip my cap to the wife Sarah. She's um she's always been there and and always supported me and and she had a lot to deal with. She was dealing with a lot of her own things then. Yeah, um, but she was always my number one supporter, so that's awesome, man. You know, as hard as it was, it's um I think it's it it it when you go through these difficulties, it it just raises your threshold for stress tolerance and stuff higher, which is just an important thing in business and life. Yeah, um so I take the wins from it where I can.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

Um as difficult as it was, but it's the best way to get through tough situations, isn't it? Like you've got to think of everything as a learning exercise, yeah. Always find the solution and and as hard as it can be sometimes, you just gotta look back and think, well, shit. I actually if I look at it this way, I've actually learnt a lot from that situation that I know that I won't do again. So 100%.

SPEAKER_02 43:15

And it's very difficult at the time because you can't see the wood for the trees, you know. You you're sort of so consumed with stress and worry and everything else that it feels like you know, you there's no way out, you've you've sort of completely stuck and lost. But um you get there, you know, you just gotta keep putting one foot in front of the other and eventually it just becomes a a memory and a a learning curve. Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:38

So what happened after that? You um you obviously had to get cranking again on your own?

SPEAKER_02 43:42

Yeah, so I had to get cranking again on my own. Um basically um just basically cut back the overhead. So I had a I had a showroom and quite a lot of overheads that I didn't need. So I just stripped it all back bare bones, and then yeah, just basically started again. And I think you just reframe things, don't you? Go right, you know, I've done it before. It's a new challenge, and I think it sort of freshens you up a bit, you know, to give yourself a new start and a new challenge. It's it's hard in this industry, you know, to there's so many, especially old school builders who've just they've been following the same beaten path through the whole career, and you can see it's beaten them down and worn them out. So, in some ways I look at it as it's been a good opportunity to just you know refocus, change my mindset a bit and um and and push myself and get back on track again, which we'll be doing.

Rebuilding With Community And Mindset

SPEAKER_00 44:31

Take my hat up to you because that that's a lot to come back from, especially um yeah, mentally and financially and all those types of things. And I imagine like for you going through that as well, like it you would have probably been a bit hesitant to to sign up to some something else, and you went and signed up to Elevate.

SPEAKER_02 44:47

And yeah, well, I've followed it's certainly given me a good bullshit detector. So um you know when people are talking shit or not. And um and I've followed you for a while, Dwayne, anyway. You know, I've um I reckon it's well before I even got into the franchise, I think we may have even had a couple of exchanges. Yeah. Um so it it was an excellent decision, you know. Again, it's j if nothing else, it's just the sort of camaraderie and and just being able to bounce ideas off people and just a great community, you know. That's that's really important, I think.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

Yeah, well you've definitely come a long way. Like the the first couple of conversations we had when I you first uh reached out to to jump on board, um, like you've you've implemented a lot, you've made a lot of changes, you're you're in a lot better headspace um for sure than when when I first met you.

SPEAKER_02 45:37

100%. I mean I've always been a big sort of mindset guy, or certainly over the past few years, I've always tried. Um, and I know you're big into that as well, Dwayne, but um I think yeah, um that's been a big thing, and it's just and it just being able to build that resilience as well, I think. And and and yeah, just again, but with with Elevate, you're sort of you've got a lot of like-minded people, everyone's trying to build each other up. Um, and it's hard, you know, builders traditionally have that very sort of um standoffish sort of approach. It's like, oh this blog's the local builder, he's my competition, and you know, it's good that you know, like the say old saying is a a rising tide lifts all bolts, and um that's definitely the case, I think.

SPEAKER_00 46:20

Yeah, yeah. It's unreal, mate. So um let's get into some of the the the good stuff. So you're um well it's been awesome to see you ramping up your socials and getting getting some videos out there, educating people. Um I noticed one of the things you're passionate about is that the trades that are involved in a build are just important as a builder. Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 46:39

I mean, and and that in itself is a long process, you know. There's a there's there's a very much uh an an up-and-coming issue is gonna be the quality of trades. Um and it's a long process to find good trades. And then you get guys who sort of start off, you know, young blokes maybe starting off the business, they're all gung-ho, they want to get stuck in, and then they lose their enthusiasm, you know. This business gets tough, life gets tough. So it's very hard to sort of keep those trades, and and and you've really got to sort of you've got to be very choosy with your with your trades. And it sort of makes life so much easier when you've got good guys, you know, people you can rely on. Um and you know, you don't have to babysit them, you know, and you know that they're gonna they're gonna do a good job and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

It's a hard thing, isn't it, in a building business, uh whether it's your own sort of team or your trades, but like we we pay good money to have people working for us, trades working contractors and those types of things, and a lot of the time it can feel like you you're basically holding their hand. But when you get good trades, it look at the documents you give them, take uh I guess have a bit of uh drive about them to to do quality work, they look after their own team, they they want they want to see you succeed as well, and you work together as a team. Like that's how I sort of try and treat the trades in my I think that's the number one thing to get people invested, you know.

SPEAKER_02 48:04

The w the the more we help each other out, the better we come we become, you know. Um there's nothing shits me more than these you get trades and all they're interested in is get paid, get out. You know, we all need to work together in this industry. We're all working to a common goal, you know, um which is to you know get the job at hand done to a high standard, or above very much above um industry standard. Industry standard. Yeah, exactly. Um and oh you're right, sorry. Yeah, so we've all got to work together. It's it's just that simple and it's so much easier when everyone works together and when we're not budding heads and you know how do you think you get that?

SPEAKER_00 48:47

Like what what do you do as a builder to attract good quality trades and then and then keep them?

SPEAKER_02 48:52

Well I think you've just gotta be open and communicate, you know. Um especially uh when it comes to standards, you know, I think you've got to be very careful. I mean the old school way would have been just to come and yell at people and tell them their work was shit and you know. I think you've got to sort of nurture people a little bit and everybody's different, aren't they? So you've got to sort of get to learn people's personalities as well, I think. Um you gotta connect on a personal level. And yeah, and it's hard because you've also got to make sure that you're you know, you're not always best mates with everybody. Yeah. That's another another sort of thing you've got to navigate there is you know, yeah, we get along with we've maybe even be mates, um, but you know, we've got to be clear on the the the boundaries here. Yeah, there's a fine line.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

I find it strange, and I know back in the day when I was getting a lot of coaching, like there was a lot of people banging on about you wanna you want to promote it, you're a family environment, you're a family business, but business isn't meant to be family. Like so it's it's good to build relationships, get on with people, but yeah, and a a a good professional relationship.

SPEAKER_02 50:02

Yeah, and you know, you do look after people, but um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:06

Yeah, it's a very different setup. But I I think yeah, those people that think business like they're bit they they're building a everyone's like family. I think that's the wrong sort of language to be using because it it it doesn't set a professional environment.

SPEAKER_02 50:18

I think so. And then it's uh to be honest, it sounds a bit much, doesn't it? Yeah, family, you know, for a building business. You've got your own family, you love your family, yeah. All credit to you. Um, I'm sure you love your kids more than you love me. So, you know, and I and I um you know I the relationship is very important, but we'll keep it professional. Yeah, we can have a laugh and you know, um have a crack, but um it is a professional relationship at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 50:44

Yeah,

Healthy Homes And Durability Mission

SPEAKER_00 50:45

definitely. And mate, you're getting into the like the the healthy home space now. I I see you're doing a lot of education on uh like ventilation and air quality and using the pro climber products and stuff. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_02 50:57

Yeah, so I learned on quite early in my life in the UK because we have very heavily insulated buildings, a lot about airflow. So it was something we always had to, the standards were that we had to incorporate airflow. Um so I was pretty much down with that. And um now we're yeah, we're moving to the Pro Climber wraps on all our buildings, um, and we're gonna start introducing the vented, which is the new standard anyway, and it should have been. Um because I think as you're probably well aware, we're gonna have a upcoming probably drama with uh mould, I think, is gonna be probably one of the next big things that we're gonna have hitting the industry. So that's a very important consideration. And realistically, you just want to be building to the best of your ability. Like I want buildings that outlive me, you know. That's ultimately what what we're doing here is is knocking out as good a work as we possibly can and and buildings that stand the test of time. You know, again, it goes back to this conversation. We've been using substandard, in my opinion, um, products, unfortunately, they're just not what they used to be. So uh durability is uh yeah. So you've got to try and mitigate it somehow by your building methodology, you know, you've got to try and um build to a high standard, you know, and using things like these good quality wraps. Um and it's always always very interesting because there's levels to this, isn't there? There's you can go to you know the the passive house level and you can go to the full healthy home where you're considering you know um VLCs and which is uh volatile organic compounds, which is basically gases that the the materials give off. So that's taking it to another level. So there's always stuff to learn. It's uh an interesting, very interesting sort of field.

SPEAKER_00 52:39

It's a whole can of worms. I'm I'm very uh definitely getting or I'm addicted to it. I I think as builders it should be our like now the more I know, the more I think that as builders we should it it's our responsibility to make sure we deliver a healthy environment for our clients to live in.

SPEAKER_02 52:54

And once you know, you can't unknow. Yeah. You know, once you've got it and you understand it, you can't you you've you can't help but keep that in your mind and you know when you're aware of it, you you sort of you can't overlook it.

SPEAKER_00 53:08

Yeah, well it's good to see it slowly coming into the building code and a lot of the things they're bringing in now will help with the health side of things, and obviously there's start there's a lot of talk now around mould and condensation, those types of things, but I feel like the conversation that really needs to be ramped up is durability. Like I'm the same as you, mate. Like I I think we should be building buildings, like we touched on it before, like you can go to Europe and you can stand in front of buildings that are three, four, five, six, seven hundred, eight hundred years old. Like there's nothing more sustainable than that, is there? No, well that that's durability is the ultimate sustainability. Like, and I d I feel like there's not enough conversation around that.

SPEAKER_02 53:44

Yeah, 100% couldn't agree more. Yeah, like like I said, there's there's nothing more sustainable than a building that's going to last the test of time, you know.

SPEAKER_00 53:52

Without without needing huge amounts of maintenance and ongoing support from the the occupants and those types of things. And it's um again, we touched on it earlier in the podcast. Like it's so much of it now, like I it really sort of frustrates me that it's gotten to building, but like everything we have now in life is designed to be thrown away. Yeah. And now, especially in the last few years, like you can see that starting to come through to building. Um, like you've got volume homes that are built to have a 20, if they're lucky, 30 year lifespan. Like it's absolutely atrocious. Like it shouldn't be allowed, it's criminal. Like, not at all. Um, so yeah, durability is definitely something I'm passionate about, and it's awesome to see that you're getting on board and um educating your clients.

SPEAKER_02 54:38

So, yeah, mate.

SPEAKER_00 54:40

Well uh I really appreciate your time and definitely um jumping on a plane, coming up here from Melbourne and having a chat. It's been a good pleasure and I've looked forward to it. I've been a longtime listener, first time guest. Yeah, we mate, we might have to get you back. I reckon you and uh the godfather Craig Stewart would be a good aspect. I mean, I'd love to. I'd love to, yeah. Absolutely. Especially talking about some of the old craftsman type work that you you um done. And in all the conversations we've had, I've I've never really dived into that old work that you've done.

SPEAKER_02 55:05

Yeah, mate, I could chew your ear off all day because we would do podcasts all day about this sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 55:10

Yeah, well Craig and I talk about all the time is uh I think it's important to even though we're not doing practical demonstrations, I I feel like it's important to talk about the old school methods and the tools and we need to hold on to it as long as we can and maybe pass on what we can.

SPEAKER_02 55:26

Yeah, it's uh yeah, it's definitely a changing environment, that's for

Level Up Definition And Wrap Up

SPEAKER_02 55:30

sure.

SPEAKER_00 55:30

Now Matt um one thing before we get out of here, what does level up mean to you?

SPEAKER_02 55:35

Uh quite simply to me, level up is just continuous improvement, just getting better, you know, even it's one percent, just just doing whatever you can to improve. And there's a lot of areas, you know, you you're never there, so you've always just got to there's always something to work on. Yeah. So just yeah, one foot in front of the other, just getting that little one percent every day.

SPEAKER_00 55:55

Jeez, mate. That sounded like me at Cacato last week, one foot in front of the other. No, mate, appreciate your time. Uh look, guys, thanks for listening, watching. Um sorry about the uh the darkness of this episode, but uh we're dealing with it, we're getting it done. There's always a solution for everything. So um, like, subscribe, share, all those types of things. Go to the DwaynePearce.com website, grab your merch so you can continue to help us grow the level up movement and create a new building industry. Look forward to seeing you on the next one.